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29 of 32 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
Hits the nail on the head . Good job., April 13, 2007
This review is from: 12-Step Horror Stories: True Tales of Misery, Betrayal, and Abuse in AA, Na, and 12-Step Treatment (Paperback)
First off let me say that I am not an atheist in that many people who criticize A.A. are labeled as "non-believers." Secondly, there is a very negative view of Christianity in general within A.A. and of traditional religion for the most part by A.A.er's. I do believe in God and I am a very devout Catholic Christian and have been most of my life.
Insofar as the stories go, they hit the nail right on the head and as one reviewer stated that the occurances of what is written about in this book are not rare, in fact from my experience they happened all the time and at most meetings. Things most people could not even imagine go on in A.A. all the time and at most meetings. I have seen female new-comers manipulated by predator men in A.A. I have seen new-comers controlled to the point of having a nervous breakdown and I want to reiterate this is common place in AA. I do have to say that I did meet some people in the meetings who ended up being very good friends but this was not because of AA so much as I had some things in common with some of the people that I met.
I was in A.A. for over 10 years and very devout to the 12-step programs and stayed sober for a long time. I was a secretary for a Saturday night meeting for years, I was an intergroup rep for the local chapter and I have been on numerous 12-step calls (12-step calls are intervention meetings to help someone who wants to stop drinking). I attended no less then 3 meetings a week and worked all 12 steps with my sponsor to the hilt. My true drug of choice was alcohol and so when I when I joined A.A. I felt that I fit right in. During the time that I was in A.A. I remember seeing people who were told by "oldtimers" to throw out their psych meds and if they didn't then they were not working the program. I remember one man locked another man in his house and refused to let him go until he admitted to the other man, who was his sponsor that he was "powerless and sick." I have seen men who were in such bad and desperate shape being humiliated and berated in front a group of a 100 A.A. members at one time to the point of devastation. I remember once, a young man spoke at a podium meeting, when he spoke at the podium he started his comments by saying that his had mother died earlier that day. After he said that his mother died, the people in the room erupted into laughter and the man was told to shutup and sitdown if he was not going to talk "program and get honest." But the one thing that really stuck in my mind and still does to this day is something that I heard one evening when I was at a meeting. There was a young woman who had been attending this meeting on Saturday night that I attended on regular basis and she really had a lot of emotional issues and was very unhappy most the time. I remember thinking at the time that she probably needed more help then just attending AA. Well one evening one of the "gurus" at that meeting by the name of George approached her after the meeting and offered her his "help." Well yeah he helped her alright, he helped her right into his bed after a period of some good stong manipulation. When she became despondent and very upset about having slept with this creep, she called him and told him that she felt like killing herself, with that this "guru" handed her a gun and said, "go for it." Now she shared this in a meeting while this idiot was sitting next to her. What really bothered me was that not one person in the room even so much as batted an eyelid when she shared this with the group. No one spoke up or said anything. I remember at the time that I was irrate and this guy made me sick, I said to myself, Is anyone !" After the meeting I approached this guy and said, "why would you offer someone a gun who has told you that they want to kill themselves?" He then looked at me and laughed and said, "well the gun wasn't loaded." From that point on he walked away to look for another victim and I began to question A.A. I ended up becoming fed up with A.A. and eventually left.
I had to laugh about this book because anyone who has spent anytime in A.A. knows that these kind of stories are true. The story that I just related and the ones in this book are only the tip of the iceberg.
I have a theory as to why AA is this way and why so much abuse goes on. I think it is because of the program itself. It starts by telling everyone that they have to admit that they are "powerless over alcohol and their life is unmanagable and that they are in full flight from reality." I began to wonder after being in AA for several years and being more miserable in life then I ever was when I was drinking how it would help anyone to be told that they were 'sick" "in denial" a derelict and mentally deranged outcast from society, which is exactly what A.A. instills in its members. That the member is not "normal" and that they are very "different" and incapable of understanding the "normie" or the normal world. What other type of therapy would tell someone who is looking for help a message like this? Someone reaches out for help then they are told by a therapist that they are a complete powerless loser? No therapist that I know of would take this approach to deal with any kind of problem that would affect someone. A.A. does works for a few people in spite of itself. Being with a group of people who are all attempting to live life without drugs and alcohol is a powerful motivator in and of itself, I doubt that the philosophy of A.A. by itself really does much in the way of help for a heavy drinker or drug abuser.
Another thing that bothered me at the time was that I was told things in A.A. that I found out later to be completely false. For example, the lie that most people who are 'alcoholics" will die or go insane without A.A. and even the ones who wind up in A.A. don't have that much of a chance of staying sober either. In fact I was told by a woman who had been in A.A. for 20 years one day that most won't make it. She said to me, "most of us are going to die with or without the program, we are a sick bunch and most of us will die from this disease." At the time I believed what she said because I was younger and more naive. But as I began to question the A.A. philosophy, I found out that this is not always the case. In fact I found out completely the opposite and that most people with drug and alcohol problems will eventually quit or moderate on their own and most people don't die from "alcoholism" or drug abuse. This is what psychology calls as "maturing out." Most people will eventually grow out of alcohol abuse or wise up. Few do go on to die or ruin their lives completely from abusing substances. I can think of numerous people that i have known from college and high school who by all definitions were alcoholic and most of them have either stopped drinking altogether without the help of A.A. or have moderated their drinking by making choices in lives that were healthier and inconsistent with a life of substance abuse. In my life I chose to take up some hobbies that I enjoyed and went back to Church. Both of these things made alcohol abuse completely unappealing and inconsistent with what I wanted to accomplish in life. Now I am married to a beautiful woman, I have a great kid I serve my country and love my career, and God is more then just some vague Higher Power.
In the final analysis, at least in my opinion is that alcohol abuse is a moral choice, there is no disease called "alcoholism" and that we are all responsible for the choices that we make. Yes, there maybe those who have a proclivity to abuse alcohol or drugs but I fail to see how that proves an inability to control ones desire to get drunk and to do the right thing as opposed to being habitually drunk. I don't remember anyone ever forcing me to take get drunk. I don't ever remember the bottle magically floating up to my lips and forcing me to take a drink. I do remember making a conscious choice of wanting to get hammered numerous times. I do remember when I chose not to drink anymore and took full responsibility for my actions and behavior. I remember looking in the mirror one day and saying, "I got myself here and it is my choice as to whether I want to continue to live like this, or to grow up and make better moral choices with my life. There is no disease there is only willful misconduct. From that day on my life has never been the same and thank God I am no longer brainwashed by A.A.
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64 of 77 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
Don't shoot the messengers--it's time to listen., November 15, 2003
This review is from: 12-Step Horror Stories: True Tales of Misery, Betrayal, and Abuse in AA, Na, and 12-Step Treatment (Paperback)
I wish this book had been on my local bookseller's shelves years ago. It would have given me the courage to get out of AA much sooner. I was an AA member from early 1989 until mid-1993, and during that time I saw firsthand or heard reliable accounts of just about every form of nastiness described in this book--and more. I saw old-timers treat newcomers like dirt, "13th step" the most vulnerable new members, and exploit their "sponsees" in myriad ways. People with depressive, bipolar or anxiety disorders were discouraged from taking "mind-altering chemicals" and told to pray, work the steps, be grateful, and they would get better. Friends and acquaintances of mine committed suicide even after doing everything they were supposed to--working steps, going to meetings, talking to their sponsors, praying. People in pain due to life crises (divorce, deaths, cancer, rape) were offered "help" in the form of canned slogans and recovery jargon that was all too often inadequate, inappropriate, or even counterproductive and hurtful. Yes, there are good people in AA, and yes, there are success stories. But there are also a lot of manipulative, deceptive, narcissistic, and downright crazy people in the program. The unwillingness of good people to openly pass judgment--much less act on it--means they can get away with abuse and exploitation of more vulnerable members. Many of the contributors to "12-Step Horror Stories" describe not only their experiences at the hands of these people, but also the ways AA rhetoric is used to make the victims accept guilt and blame. If you're raped by a fellow AA member, it must have been your fault--"look at your part in it," you'll be told. Don't believe it? Maybe it's time to pick up a copy of this book and read it. The people who gave this book one star are probably all AA members (the use of recovery jargon gives most of them away). Having been "born again," in a sense, they act like any other religious zealots would by trying to discredit critics and dissenters, silence those who do not present the "correct" image, and place blame on the victims while upholding the structures that enabled their victimization. AA members who speak out against or question the tenets of "recovery" find themselves faced with harsh criticism from other members, and even suggestions that they may be headed toward another drunk. It's just not allowed, and to break away and speak critically of AA and what happens among its members means having to withstand nasty comments, threats, slander and outright harassment. The people who contributed their stories to this book need to be heard and taken seriously--they raise important issues for anyone trying to break free from addiction, who cares for someone who is, or who works in the "treatment" industry. Over ten years ago, I left AA for many reasons--its theories of addiction and recovery were logically indefensible, I was unable to summon the quasi-religious faith required, and after dealing with the sick social dynamics long enough I couldn't cope with it anymore. After reading Stanton Peele's "The Truth About Addiction and Recovery" and thinking long and hard about why I drank, I decided to try social drinking. Ten years later, it's still working. As happy as I am to see critiques of AA now in print, I would love to see a similar collection of stories by former alcoholics who got over the AA brainwashing and actually *recovered* (whether they choose to drink or not)...
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19 of 21 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
AA: These stories of AA are not rare, June 26, 2007
This review is from: 12-Step Horror Stories: True Tales of Misery, Betrayal, and Abuse in AA, Na, and 12-Step Treatment (Paperback)
I was in a rehab for 28 days 18 years ago. I got sober. I left the rehab and was told that I would surely die if I took another drink and if I didn't go to AA, I would surely take another drink. As it happens, I did not take another drink. For the first few months, I listened to the group-think, and I admit bothered me. I was afraid if I didn't keep coming back - I would drink again, so I did what I was told. I was full of fear of drinking, and I was told I was powerless to stop it so I needed meetings.
I was 13th stepped and told it was my fault. I stayed and was harassed over it. My sponsor told me it was time for my 4th step, and I admitted to having been an abused child. She glibly remarked that I must have done something to deserve it. I never went to another meeting after that and that was 16 years ago. Believe me, the dry drunk thing is a myth. Since I left AA I have not only stayed sober but have built an impressive resume and have a wonderful personal life full of love, joy, and serenity. And my supportive spouse has been more helpful than 90 in 90 ever was. Take what you like and leave the rest? Absolutely, just leave 12 step meetings.
The problems in AA, many confronted in the book, are problems with AA itself and its structure. It is a group-think cult. It is possible to get sober and stay sober without it, and if you do a little research, you will quickly see that it harms more people than it helps. Do not believe that AA's success rate is 75-95%. It is not. Only the people who stay in AA are counted, and they are counted several times. Check out spontaneous recovery, and you will see that millions of people have not been helped by AA.
I often say that I have never wanted to drink as much as I did after I went to a meeting. Why? Well, this abuse is incredibly real, and I could tell hundreds of stories. These stories are not rare. If you look at the reviews who are negative about the book and pro-AA carefully, you will see that the reviews exactly reflect the problem with AA - it is a group-think cult that keeps members because they are browbeaten into low self-esteem and believe that if they are not at meetings then they will surely drink again. AA is a system that it is difficult to criticize because if you do then that is precisely why you should go to AA. You can't win - say something critical about AA and its because you're an alcoholic. And also keep in mind - alcoholics remain sick for a lifetime. Read these stories, and you will see AA is part of that sickness. Without AA, I am much better off and can fully love the joy of sobriety and its gifts.
Trust me, if you do not want to drink because you accept that it is bad for you, and you are sick and tired of being sick and tired, you will not drink. If you firmly know that alcohol is destroying your life and you commit yourself to not drinking, you will accept that you are not a powerless loser who has no control. You can do as I have and stay sober if you choose to save yourself, and you will not have to accept AA abuse. I am free - free of AA, and I know that I do not drink. This book is absolutely real and honest. I've seen these stories happen.
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