DR. PEPPER ANYONE? --- THE SECOND SOFT-DRINK MACHINE IN THE BOOK DEPOSITORY


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Initial post: Apr 28, 2008 8:12:22 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 28, 2008 8:19:34 AM PDT
VARIOUS DVP INTERNET FORUM POSTS FROM 2007 REGARDING LEE HARVEY OSWALD AND THE SOFT-DRINK MACHINES THAT WERE LOCATED IN THE TEXAS SCHOOL BOOK DEPOSITORY BUILDING ON NOVEMBER 22, 1963:

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www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/69c5d41ca433a770

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www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/8c7d0112ff74d455

Was anyone here aware of the existence of a Dr. Pepper soda machine in the Depository's first-floor lunch ("Domino") room on 11/22/63?

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www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/dd17c3781819b6d5

Soda Pop Machine Follow-Up:

I'll go ahead and confirm/answer my own above-asked question regarding a first-floor soda machine in the TSBD.

Vince Bugliosi, as usual, is 100% correct. A Dr. Pepper machine was located on the first floor. A Coke machine was in the 2nd-Floor lunchroom. So there were definitely TWO soda machines in the TSBD on 11/22/63.

The first-floor soda machine wasn't located inside the so-called "Domino Room" itself. Instead, it was situated near the stairway in the northwest corner of the first floor.

I don't think I've ever heard the common-sense argument made by Vince Bugliosi being made by anyone else. I certainly didn't think of it. I.E., Oswald's preferred beverage was available on the first floor; therefore, why the need to go UPSTAIRS to the 2nd Floor to get a soft drink there (which is what he told police at one point after his
arrest)?

And the Dr. Pepper machine was positively in working order on November 22nd, too. How do we know? Because Bonnie Ray Williams testified he bought a Dr. Pepper from the "Dr. Pepper machine" just before he went up to the sixth floor to eat his lunch. (The empty Dr. Pepper bottle was left on the 6th Floor by Williams as well.)

I think some of the confusion surrounding the soda-pop machines comes from the witness testimony given by the TSBD employees. Virtually all of them testified that they went "up to the second floor" to buy their soft drinks ("Cokes") on 11/22. Billy Lovelady said that he did that...and he said he came back down to the first floor after getting his "Coke".

Wesley Frazier testified in some detail about "soft drinks". But his testimony, too, is rather murky about there being ANY pop machine on the FIRST floor at all. In fact, to hear Frazier tell it, the employees had to go to the SECOND-floor lunchroom to get "different kinds of soft drinks".

But when searching through the witness testimony, I hit soda-pop paydirt with the testimony of James Jarman. Jarman's WC testimony verifies, beyond all doubt, that a "Dr. Pepper machine" was located on the FIRST FLOOR of the Book Depository on the day of President Kennedy's assassination. Let's have a look.....

JOSEPH BALL (WC) -- "You say you wandered around, you mean on the first floor?"

JAMES JARMAN, JR. -- "On the first floor."

MR. BALL -- "Were you with anybody when you were at the window? Did you talk to anybody?"

MR. JARMAN -- "No; I did not."

MR. BALL -- "Were you with anybody when you were walking around finishing your sandwich?"

MR. JARMAN -- "No; I wasn't, I was trying to get through so I could get out on the street."

MR. BALL -- "Did you see Lee Oswald?"

MR. JARMAN -- "No; I didn't."

MR. BALL -- "After his arrest, he stated to a police officer that he had had lunch with you. Did you have lunch with him?"

MR. JARMAN -- "No, sir; I didn't."

MR. BALL -- "When you finished your sandwich and your bottle of pop, what did you do?"

MR. JARMAN -- "I throwed [sic] the paper that I had the sandwich in in the box over close to the telephone and I took the pop bottle and put it in the case over by the Dr. Pepper machine."

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/jarman.htm

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www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/fb04d259c1c218eb

TONY MARSH SAID:

>>> "I have never seen a Dr. Pepper machine in the TSBD." <<<

DVP THEN SAID:

And I'm actually rather embarrassed that I, myself, couldn't figure out something so EASY to figure out via the witness testimony of James Jarman.

Jarman's testimony is crystal-clear regarding what floor the "Dr. Pepper" machine (not "Coke") was on -- it was the FIRST FLOOR. Unless we want to believe the silly notion that Jarman ate his sandwich and drank his soda pop on the FIRST floor (while "walking around" on that floor)...then he went upstairs to the second floor to toss away his trash and place the empty bottle in a case next to the soft-drink machine that Jarman refers to specifically as a "Dr. Pepper machine".

That scenario, of course, is just goofy. Jarman was on the first floor the whole time. Reviewing that testimony again proves it:

MR. BALL -- "You say you wandered around, you mean on the first floor?"

MR. JARMAN -- "On the first floor."

[Later....]

MR. BALL -- "When you finished your sandwich and your bottle of pop, what did you do?"

MR. JARMAN -- "I throwed [sic] the paper that I had the sandwich in in the box over close to the telephone and I took the pop bottle and put it in the case over by the Dr. Pepper machine."

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www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/764ae514bbdb9af7

I'm not saying the "soda pop" thing is DEFINITIVE proof of Oswald's guilt. It's just one additional small piece of the "mosaic" (per VB's oft-used parlance) surrounding Lee Harvey Oswald's guilt.

Sure, Oswald might have had a craving for a "Coca-Cola" on November 22...even though his drink of preference (per his acquaintances) was Dr. Pepper.

Buell Wesley Frazier testified to the fact that he had observed Oswald (in days prior to November 22) purchase drinks out of the "Dr. Pepper" machine. So we know for a fact, via that Frazier testimony, that Oswald was certainly aware of the Dr. Pepper machine being on the first floor. (So CTers certainly can't use some silly theory about LHO possibly not knowing the machine was even there.)

"I never have seen him {LHO} eat lunch. I have seen him go to the Doctor Pepper machine by the refrigerator and get a Doctor Pepper." -- Wesley Frazier

So, if Oswald were innocent of shooting at JFK on 11/22/63, a common-sense question that needs to be asked is -- Why does Oswald (per his alibi given to the DPD after his arrest) choose the EXACT MINUTES THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IS DRIVING BY THE FRONT DOOR OF THE BUILDING to go from the first floor to the second floor to purchase a soft drink from the Coke machine....even though a working soft drink machine is right there on the first floor for him to use (and one that has his apparently-favorite drink available, Dr. Pepper)?

Oswald is not the slightest bit interested in watching the President drive by the front door of his workplace. Anybody wonder why? And this disinterest is AFTER he garners information from fellow employees earlier in the day regarding the President's motorcade. So we know that Lee, even if innocent of the shooting, KNEW of the President's impending parade.

Another question I've also wondered about recently is this --- Why would Oswald buy his soft drink at the time he did (approx. 12:32 PM)? That is to say, why wouldn't he have ALREADY purchased his beverage BEFORE he began eating his lunch?

If we're to believe certain CTers (who, in turn, treat Carolyn Arnold's "I Saw Oswald" account as the Gospel), then Oswald had been seated in the lunchroom at about 12:15 PM. (And I think that'd be on the SECOND floor, not the first, which differs with Oswald's own account given to police.)

So, if LHO is sitting down eating his lunch (on the first or the second floor, take your pick) at around 12:15, it seems logical he would have bought his drink well before 12:32. Who eats lunch dry...then buys a soft drink for dessert?

Yes, I realize that Oswald could have possibly bought a SECOND drink that day. And since there's no witnesses to verify the number of beverages Oswald bought on Nov. 22nd, it's a stalemate on this point. I guess I could add here that Oswald was a super-tightwad, and perhaps he wouldn't want to spend another whole dime on a second beverage. (Remember, a whopping 5-cent tip was given by LHO to cab driver Whaley that same day. Yes, Oz-man was a thrifty SOB.) ~wink~

But the key points re. the "soft drink" business are:

1.) If he's innocent, Oswald waits until a very strange time indeed to go get a Coke....the precise moments when JFK is passing the building.

2.) And Oswald, if innocent, bypasses the first-floor Dr. Pepper machine to go up one flight and buy a Coke.

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www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/abab2d726fc3819e

>>> "Are you saying Oswald was on the first floor getting his "drink" before the Baker/Truly encounter?" <<<

Come now, my good man. Of course I'm not saying any such thing.

I'm saying just EXACTLY what Vince Bugliosi will undoubtedly be saying in his book....to wit:

1.) Lee Harvey Oswald was on the 6th Floor at 12:30 PM and he shot and killed JFK (alone) from the Sniper's Nest in the southeast corner of the building.

2.) Oswald then scurried down the back stairs after stashing his rifle in the northwest corner (while wiping off as many fingerprints as he could with his brown shirt, a shirt he likely was not wearing when he pulled the trigger; and that's how the fairly-"fresh" brownish shirt fibers could have embedded themselves onto the rifle, while Oswald was wiping off prints as he went from the SN to the stairs).*

3.) Oswald peels off the stairs at Floor #2, and ducks into the lunchroom. (It's possible he heard Baker & Truly coming up the stairs from the first floor.)

4.) Baker & Truly encounter Oswald (with NO soft drink at all) in the lunchroom. Baker's gun is shoved almost right up against LHO's belly ("almost touching" Oswald's body, per Roy Truly). Oswald doesn't say a word to the gun-wielding Officer Baker (which, if LHO is innocent, is mighty strange, IMO).

5.) Oswald, after his encounter with B&T, purchases a Coke from the Coca-Cola machine on the second floor, and then works his way through the 2nd-Floor offices. He mumbles something to Mrs. Robert A. Reid after Reid says to LHO "the President's been shot". And again, there's no surprised reaction at all by LHO. He doesn't ask, "What the heck happened?" or "How could this have happened?" or something along similar lines.

He's totally unconcerned...and that's because he doesn't NEED to ask questions, because Oswald HIMSELF knows what happened out on Elm Street, because he himself was responsible for causing it.

6.) Oswald, after his arrest, tells police (on at least one occasion) that he had lunch with "Junior" on the first floor of the Depository when the President was killed. And in elaborating on this "first-floor" alibi, he says he went up to the second floor to get a Coke, and then he encountered Baker & Truly (which he did not deny, and obviously he knew he couldn't deny that meeting).

* = The "shirt" theory is mine, but I have a feeling VB might possibly say something along those same lines as well {in his JFK book "Reclaiming History"}; hence the reason why witnesses saw Oswald in "light" clothing (in his white T-shirt only). The brown shirt was probably by his feet in the Sniper's Nest when Oswald was seen by witnesses. Baker testified that Oswald's brown "jacket" (he thought the shirt resembled a "jacket") was "hanging out"...i.e., untucked.

MARRION BAKER -- "I assume it was a jacket, it was hanging out. Now, I was looking at his face and I wasn't really paying any attention. After Mr. Truly said he knew him, so I didn't pay any attention to him, so I just turned and went on."

Now, since Jarman's and Williams' WC testimony verifies beyond any doubt that there was a Dr. Pepper machine (in working order on 11/22) on the FIRST floor, it begs the obvious question re. Oswald's alibi -- Why does he need to travel to the 2nd Floor for a soft drink when a pop machine was right there on the first floor, which is where he said he was when JFK was shot at 12:30?

I also have a feeling that Mr. Bugliosi has probably doubled (and maybe tripled) his verification of the existence of that first-floor soda machine too.

IOW, he hasn't JUST relied (as I have done) on the WC testimony of the TSBD witnesses, esp. Jarman. Vince has probably talked with some of those TSBD employees himself and asked them point-blank: Was there a second soda machine in the TSBD when you worked there in Nov. 1963? [And VB did--he talked with Wesley Frazier about that very subject. See the next segment in "Part 2" of this thread.]

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[CONTINUED AT THE LINK BELOW.....]

http://www.amazon.com/DR-PEPPER-ANYONE-PART-2/forum/Fx2TVHW5I0UEY9A/Tx34PVGKRS2D2A0/1/ref=cm_cd_ef_tft_tp?%5Fencoding=UTF8&asin=0393045250

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In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2008 1:54:59 AM PDT
simplychic says:
lol, your a piece of work my friend again oswalds alibi was he was ''on the second floor at the time of the shooting'' he never said '' i went up to the second floor to get a coke''(aww dave's sad face here)

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2008 11:50:11 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 23, 2008 12:25:32 PM PDT
>>> "[Oswald's] alibi was he was ''on the second floor at the time of the shooting"; he never said ''I went up to the second floor to get a Coke''." <<<

You're wrong (as is normally the case when dealing with members of the "Anybody But Oswald" fraternity).

Lee Harvey Oswald told Captain Will Fritz of the DPD that he (LHO) was "having his lunch about that time [of the assassination] on the first floor" (quote from Fritz' police report).

And Oswald further told Fritz during that very same November 22 interrogation session that he (Oswald) was "on the second floor drinking a Coca-Cola" when police officer Marrion Baker encountered Oswald (which we know was within just a couple of minutes after the shooting).

Therefore, quite obviously, Oswald (per his own account of events as he told them to Captain Fritz) would have had no choice but to travel up one flight from the first floor to the second floor to get his Coke right around the time of the shooting.

All of this can be verified on Page 600 of the Warren Commission Report:

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0312b.htm

Better luck next time, "simplychic".

Plus........

I'll add the following two excerpts from "Reclaiming History" as a bonus here (with these excerpts emphasizing the obvious fact that Lee Oswald couldn't get his own story straight when it came to telling his lies to the various authorities on November 22-24):

"During Sunday's [11/24/63] interrogation Oswald slipped up and placed himself on the sixth floor [of the Depository] at the time of the assassination. .... In his Sunday-morning interrogation he said that at lunchtime, one of the "Negro" employees invited him to eat lunch with him and he declined. .... He said before he could finish whatever he was doing, the commotion surrounding the assassination took place and when he "WENT DOWNSTAIRS," a policeman questioned him as to his identification, and his boss stated that he was one of their employees. .... WHERE WAS OSWALD AT THE TIME THE NEGRO EMPLOYEE INVITED HIM TO LUNCH, AND BEFORE HE DESCENDED TO THE SECOND-FLOOR LUNCHROOM? [Answer:] The sixth floor." [All emphasis Bugliosi's.] -- Vincent Bugliosi; Page 957 of "Reclaiming History" (c.2007)

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"There is yet another reason why Oswald's statement that he was on the first floor eating lunch at the time of the shooting makes no sense at all. If he had been, once he heard the shots and the screaming and all the commotion outside, if he were innocent, what is the likelihood that he would have proceeded to go, as he claims, up to the second floor to get himself a Coke? How could any sensible person believe a story like that?" -- Vincent Bugliosi; Page 958 of "Reclaiming History" (c.2007)

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2008 3:09:11 PM PDT
simplychic says:
''about'' the time of the assassanation?lol,way to speculate there(ln's hypocrites?(gasp)wonders never cease)ha..better luck next time INDEED there little ranger.(DEEP SIGH)...anything else?

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2008 4:30:58 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 23, 2008 4:32:04 PM PDT
>>> "anything else?" <<<

Yeah -- learn how to write a coherent, readable sentence. That'd be kind of nice.

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2008 5:23:37 PM PDT
simplychic says:
LOL,insulting peoples grammar.....last refuge of a fraud.

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2008 6:33:24 PM PDT
Really terrible writing--first sign of a conspiracy-happy kook.

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2008 6:39:02 PM PDT
simplychic says:
conspiracy happy kook? Oh so because i believe there WAS a conspiracy in jfk's assassanation makes me a kook? Deflecting the issue,insulting people's grammar--first SIGNS of an idiot who doesnt have a case.

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2008 6:53:59 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 23, 2008 6:55:31 PM PDT
>>> "conspiracy happy kook? Oh so because i believe there WAS a conspiracy in jfk's assassanation makes me a kook?" <<<

No. Believing in the kooky theories you believe in is what makes you a "kook", IMO.

Two quick questions for "the chic".....

1.) Do you think Lee Oswald shot at JFK at all?

2.) Do you think Lee Oswald killed J.D. Tippit?

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2008 6:55:03 PM PDT
>>> "Deflecting the issue, insulting people's grammar--first SIGNS of an idiot who doesnt [sic] have a case.' <<<

Making up evidence out of thin air (as you've done with your "2 back wounds" theory) = a kook.

Simple as that.

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2008 7:05:22 PM PDT
simplychic says:
photographic evidence of the doctors at bethesda measuring a ''second'' bullet hole in jfk's back. Type in ''dal-tex building on youtube.And ''making up evidence out of thin air''? like when bogus-losi makes up time frames to fit his debunked thesis?

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2008 7:14:28 PM PDT
simplychic says:
The only thing this frauds book(HI-JACKING HISTORY) is good for is taking a wobble out of a table.Its been ignored ,shunned no matter how hard the major media tried there best to promote it.The american people might be dumb enough to vote for a couple of bush traitors 3 times...but there not dumb enough to believe this tripe(AT LEAST REGARDING JFK'S ASSASSANATION).

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2008 7:24:09 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 23, 2008 7:32:33 PM PDT
Oh goodie! Now stuff on "YouTube" trumps the 27 WC volumes and the 13 volumes of the HSCA!

Lovely.

Next thing you know the kook will be recommending this --- "Google 'John Armstrong' and his 'Harvey & Lee' book."

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2008 7:35:01 PM PDT
simplychic says:
LOL,Why are you so defensive,so insulting?This guy is so out of touch everyones a kook,or liars( projecting himself again).And logic and common sense trumps the 27 volumes of the WC(aww daves sad face here)

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2008 7:59:31 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 24, 2008 2:39:46 PM PDT
>>> "Why are you so defensive,so insulting?" <<<

Why sugar-coat it?
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Total posts:  15
Initial post:  Apr 28, 2008
Latest post:  May 23, 2008

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Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy
Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy by Vincent Bugliosi (Hardcover - May 15, 2007)
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