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Absolute Proof that GOD Exists! There is NO Doubt!


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Showing 1-25 of 203 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Nov 8, 2007 10:43:32 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 8, 2007 10:47:36 AM PST
Hans Castorp says:
Yes, the Judaic/Christian God exists. So does Thor, Mercury, Venus (my "fave"), Mars, Jupiter, Neptune, Pluto, Diana (another favorite), Apollo, Vishnu, and thousands of others! Where do these gods exist? Obviously, in the imaginations of all and any who have heard of them.Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, elves, and fairies, and leprechauns..Hamlet, Ulysses,Achilles, Sherlock Holmes, Huck Finn, Anna Karenina, Hans Castorp (you can look that one up!), Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Courageous Cat, Felix the Cat..on and on..all exist too..within the imaginations of millions throut the world, too!..That definitely, and without question proves the existence of God! Case Closed!

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2007 4:32:08 AM PST
W. Alexander says:
Well said. You'd think more theists would be on here thanking you for proving their point for them.... =)

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2007 4:32:30 AM PST
W. Alexander says:
Well said. You'd think more theists would be on here thanking you for proving their point for them.... =)

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2007 6:14:34 AM PST
Jam says:
Trolling?
I think most theists take up the position that the existence of their particular god is unprovable, as is it's non-existence. I can easily understand why none of them are responding to this, there's no "how many angels" style philosophizing. Discussions of this nature are futile, I think most everyone knows this.
Believers don't need evidence.

You should have put Horatio Hornblower in that list too, by the way. ;) No list of good adult imaginary friends is complete without Horatio Hornblower.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2007 7:57:34 PM PST
JonathanFast says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2007 7:57:38 PM PST
JonathanFast says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 10, 2007 3:43:41 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 10, 2007 4:45:35 PM PST
W. Alexander says:
Two things, Jonathan. First, it's just as absurd and inconceivable to believe that God created himself as it is that the universe created itself, no matter how elegant and satisfying that is.

Second, the number of religious types who use physics, logic, and (snicker) statistics to support their belief that if they do good in this life then they can get into heaven is probably fewer even than the number of athiests out there. Most of the zealots I grew up with (and have observed throughout the world) openly throw all those things out the window when dealing with their understanding of God.

The ones in your camp who CAN add, subtract and remember to breathe with their mouths closed have an obligation to your fellows to keep them in check. Bring some of that intelligence to bear when it comes to convincing people not to stone girls for pre-marital sex or blow up abortion clinics.

And there won't be a test, just a lesson.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 10, 2007 10:14:16 PM PST
Jam says:
As this is a website designed to make it easy to buy books, I recommend the following as a source that you can use to illuminate what some intelligent atheists believe. It's title is The Cambridge Companion to Atheism, and it can be found here: The Cambridge Companion to Atheism (Cambridge Companions to Philosophy)

I would also recommend that you not dismiss out of hand that which you do not understand. I often find multiverse theory difficult to swallow as well, and I think a healthy skepticism is good, however probability theory leads many Cosmologists to infer the presence of level 1 and 2 parallel universes through the properties of observable space and time dimensions. It is vastly theoretical, but to dismiss it out of hand shows an abhorrent level of disrespect. Quantum physics is complicated and minutia filled, there are very few people who understand the theories which that discipline generate. To therefore ignore it because you don't understand it is to say the universe can't possibly contain five-hundred million observed galaxies simply because your mind can't comprehend it.

Get some actual, scientific atheism resources rather than judging the whole by the few (or one) author(s) that you're familiar with. I don't judge all Christians by the legacy left by the Crusades, I expect the same courtesy from your kind.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2007 6:03:02 AM PST
D. ALGER says:
the reason atheists exist is because too many people use god as a tool of torture and punishment.

the correct answer is "i don't know" some atheists are so sure in their faith that they should be grouped with the other fundamentalists that are poisoning everything as well.

remember the big bang, which many sciences derive their basis from, is still largely faith based and thumbs its nose at classical physics.

"Objects [un-banged] must remain [un-banged] unless acted upon by an outside force"
-- Sir Isaac Newton

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2007 9:51:22 AM PST
Jam says:
D. Alger, the big bang may seem to thumb it's nose at "classical" (Newtonian) physics, but Relativity and Quantum physics don't have a problem with it.

Atheists exist because they live and think in a physical world and require ideas presented to them to not be filled with logical fallacies. Atheists exist because they have a good grasp on history and can see strong theoretical origins for religion and can see its continued retreat and regression as science progresses, ever evolving and adapting farther and farther from the "god did it" explanation of, for example, a hurricane knocking your house down and more into the easier and more comfortable realm of "supreme being loves you even when no one else does." Atheists see agnosticism as one of the many steps each and every one of them who left a religion took on the way to an atheist state, they see it as a position they occupied when they weren't quite ready to accept the volume of responsibility (and possible worry and loneliness) of living in a reality without gods.

Simply put, atheists exist because they see gods as illogical at best and an excuse for bad research or bad actions at worst.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2007 11:53:56 AM PST
Peter says:
JonathanFast: "atheists lie time and time again to try to make their point that life is pointless, meaningless, and hopeless."

What you describe is nihilism, not atheism. I'm sure there are atheists who are nihilists. I'm not one of them. My life has meaning.

The life of a Christian has no meaning. Hence Jesus dying for his sins on the cross is bogus. Life had no meaning to Jesus and subsequently did not sacrifice anything. Jesus was a poser.

Christians are nothing on their own. Their lives are meaningless without god. They are like children seeking praise and acknowledgment from their parents. Vanity is the consequence of inferiority.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2007 1:00:28 PM PST
D. ALGER says:
Jam: "the big bang may seem to thumb it's nose at "classical" (Newtonian) physics, but Relativity and Quantum physics don't have a problem with it."

=====

Well quantum physics doesn't have a problem with string theory, multi-verse, and numerous other faith based theories.

To be a true Atheist one must deny anything that can not be independently measured and verified. Which includes the catalyst force for the big bang and just about all of quantum theory since we can't take measurements without affecting the results.

I don't see Agnosticism or Theism as "one of the many steps" toward (or away from) Atheism at all.
Most atheists have at least one thing that can't be measured and objectively verified that they base at least some faith upon...

Take your pick:
Love, Multi-Verses, Joy, Dark Matter, Peace, The Big Bang Catalyst, Dimensions outside our ability to measure, etc.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2007 3:37:36 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 20, 2007 3:39:38 AM PST
J. Sanford says:
Here is a quick look at a big problem for atheists:

In order to state that there is no proof for God's existence, the atheist would have to know all alleged proofs that exist in order to then state that there is no proof for God's existence. But, since he cannot know all things, he cannot logically state there is no proof for God's existence.

At best, an atheist can only state that of all the alleged proofs he has seen thus far, none have worked. He could even say that he believes there are no proofs for God's existence. But then, this means that there is the possibility that there is a proof or proofs out there and that he simply has not yet encountered one.

Nevertheless, if there was a proof that truly did prove God's existence, would the atheist be able to accept it given that his presuppositions are in opposition to the existence of God? In other words, given that the atheist has a presuppositional base that there is no God, in order for him to accept a proof for God's existence, he would have to change his presuppositional base. This is not easy to do and would involve a major paradigm shift in the belief structure of the atheist. Therefore, an atheist is presuppositionally hostile to any proofs for God's existence and is less likely to be objective about such attempted proofs.

I challenge the atheist out there to explain this away away (Intelligently).

You all seem to so foucused on logic that you should have no problems with this. (unless of course your position is not logical...)

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2007 7:32:30 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 20, 2007 7:33:35 AM PST
Jam says:
Leaving your ad ignorantiam aside for a moment, the side that is obligated to provide evidence for its position is the side saying a god exists.
Whether it's yours, who somehow ended up named after his job description, or the ancient Greeks and the Romans with their scores of deities, or the Hindi with their thousands of them.
It's not our job to provide evidence for the NON-existence of a deity. This is why atheists do not believe in gods, the burden of proof is on those who do believe, and they don't have proof to offer.
Your argumentum ad ignorantiam is your claim that the premise that gods exist is true only because it has not been proved false. This is a usual way of deflecting the burden of proof from yourself to the skeptic, which has already been addressed.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2007 9:24:35 AM PST
Randy Pagan says:
"Two things are incomprehensible:
1. That the universe created itself from nothing, and
2. That God created the universe.

The former is scientifically absurd, and inconceivable, and forever unprovable.
The latter is elegant, and satisfying on many, many different levels."

It's a good thing scientists arent trying to be "elegant" or "satisfying"

If the answer "It's Magic" somehow makes you feel better. you better be in kindergarden.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2007 9:33:23 AM PST
Randy Pagan says:
"Nevertheless, if there was a proof that truly did prove God's existence, would the atheist be able to accept it given that his presuppositions are in opposition to the existence of God?"

So you are saying that if presented with a mountain of evidence, and scientific indisputable facts, would an atheist change his mind and subscribe fully to the idea of god?
my answer is a resounding "YES"

now let's ask christians the same question. and if their answer is yes, then ask them why havent they already converted because the mountain of proof is already available.why? because they have faith and feel noble that they know nothing and dont wish to learn.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2007 9:40:21 AM PST
Randy Pagan says:
"In order to state that there is no proof for God's existence, the atheist would have to know all alleged proofs that exist in order to then state that there is no proof for God's existence. But, since he cannot know all things, he cannot logically state there is no proof for God's existence."

"At best, an atheist can only state that of all the alleged proofs he has seen thus far, none have worked. He could even say that he believes there are no proofs for God's existence. But then, this means that there is the possibility that there is a proof or proofs out there and that he simply has not yet encountered one."

This is the same "logic" that got oj off of double murder.we must conceed there is a 1 in a hundred billion chance that police could have planted the evidence and since we can't be sure,we must let him go.

since there is a 1 in one hundred billion chance that god may exist, the christians are allowed to ignore the obvious fact and proof that he doesnt. I choose to play the odds.
1 in a hundred billion chance of frying in hell or live my life according to my own value system? I'll take my chances

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2007 10:24:14 AM PST
Jam says:
We can't even say that there's a 1 in a 100,000,000,000 chance that gods exist because, yet again, the information required for a true statistical analysis is not present.
Theists? The ball's in your court on this one.
Surely with all the "documented miracles" the Catholics categorize and store to determine sainthood you can find something for us to scientifically evaluate.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2007 10:53:56 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 20, 2007 10:56:38 AM PST
Hans Castorp says:
"Documented Miracles?" Like old husbands and wives tales, rehashed again and again to keep the ignorant in check, and the powerful (clergy) in their exalted positions! In the Catholic Church (as well as all the others, but more so in Catholic), every day is "Make Believe" Day to keep themselves in power!..Alas, it may be true that every culture needs its own "Make Believe" myths and superstitions approved and sanctioned by the powers that be..even in 2007-2008!

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2007 2:46:24 PM PST
J. Brewster says:
Here are some suggestions of proofs that would probably convince many atheists.
I will start with an ancient one.
- Independent existence, i.e. If the same stories & prophets had the same visions etc. in cultures that had no contact with each other. Instead of relying on missionaries etc. to spread the word. Why should God not be revealed to everyone simultaneously?

- Matthew 17:20: Jesus said that if you had enough faith you could move a mountain but then neglected to do so. If tomorrow Mt. Everest were to be transported to the Grand Canyon without the aid of tractors, ships, planes or other conventional (man made) transportation devices, i.e. intact, that would be a good one.

Universal communication: Instead of just someone like Pat Robertson or whoever else hears the solitary whisper of God, how about communicating to everyone at the same time in a clear understandable non cryptic message. That means that someone listening to their iPod would get the same message as someone listening to the radio or watching TV, or someone removed from electronic media, or in a submarine, or on a hiking trip cut off from civilisation, or a deaf person, or a blind person, etc. and the language that they spoke would be irrelevant whether that were English, Swahilli, Sign Language etc. And while God were doing this, perhaps some clarification of the conflicting messages, interpretations etc. of God could be addressed in this universal message.

These are just three simple examples that spring to mind but I am sure that others can be easily constructed.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2007 5:03:22 PM PST
J. Pankey says:
Arguing about religion? Who can tell the biggest "Told You So!"? "My non-god/God is bigger/better/badder than yours!"?

Who needs it?

Apparently many seem to think they need it. Why is that?

Why is it that the majority of "Christians" act contrary to biblical principles/mandates? Isn't this why outsiders look down on them as ignorant/foolish?

I think the answer is power. Whether it's the "Man of God", the book writer, the engineer, the woman or the man; we look for a way to place ourselves above others in some way.

Isn't that sad?

Especially for a group of people who claim "This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers." And this: "Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you."

What a crazy place we live in...

And this from a Christian?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2007 6:03:00 PM PST
Jam says:
J. Pankey, the claim that Christians live contrary to biblical principles and mandates is a difficult one to support. A complete reading of the bible will show there are lessons to be learned in it that are quite contrary to the popular principles and mandates of the diluted down version of Christianity practiced today.

And no, the perceived hypocrisy is not why all outsiders look down on Christians. Possibly some, but those are usually less informed. Some look down on Christians because of the entire practice of religion, but their disdain is not reserved specifically for Christians.

I'd prefer if more Christians spent less time reading Mathew, the Johns, and the new testament prophets and a little more reading the rest of their bibles. Maybe then they would seriously reconsider their life choices.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2007 6:53:17 PM PST
J. Shivers says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2007 7:49:16 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 20, 2007 7:58:47 PM PST
J. Pankey says:
Jam,

Technically speaking, to be a "Christian" would be to live by the principles. So, I guess I am referring to those that pretend to be. I'm pretty sure "Christians" will be known by the love they share with others.

Please give example(s) of the contrary lessons learned?

Having read the entire thing, I'm trying to come up with reasons to abandon my life choices. I haven't found a reason to leave the hope that is within me.
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Initial post:  Nov 8, 2007
Latest post:  Sep 27, 2015

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God is not Great How Religion Poisons Everything
God is not Great How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher Hitchens (Paperback - 2007)
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