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Initial post: Jan 20, 2010 4:31:01 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 22, 2010 10:36:48 AM PST
THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY... Thank Mrs Malkin, Mrs, Palin and many others... for the newer concept of "hope and change"...

Exactly what do the Republican wins in MA, NJ and VA mean to the 2010 and 2012 upcoming elections? Of course the Democrats won in NY, but exactly how does one interpret the "teabag" Republican wins lately? Afterall a Republican... winning Ted Kennedy's seat... even after President Obama went to MA this weekend (and his appearances in VA & NJ, did nothing for the Democratic candidates whatsoever), must be interpreted as quite amazing to any clear-thinking and open-minded intellectual. Democrat John Kerry, for example, doesn't seem to take the teabaggers seriously. Should he and all politicians do so now?

I know absolutely very little... nor do I care to know too much... of politics. But this seems as if it might be an eye-opener to other politicans (of all parties) to start taking seriously and listen to the voices of the American people (whether they be "teabaggers" or not) and not attempt to betray their trust and respect with laws and bills the American people do not care for (example... Obama's Healthcare Reform). From the Associated Press.... "In many ways the campaign in Massachusetts became a referendum not only on health care reform but also on the openness and integrity of our government process," said Sen. James Webb, D-Va. He urged that "we suspend further votes on health care legislation until Sen.-elect Brown is seated."

Are the American people showing discontent with the current administration and the direction in which this country is being led? Of course that can change in time, but is the current adminsitration out of touch with the American people at this time? Will they continue to blame the Bush administration for everything, including their own mistakes? Do the politicans truly believe the American people don't know the difference of the apparent political arrogance, ignorance and ineptitude of the current administration and Democratic Congress?

Are the Republican gains "a sign of things to come" that the American people no longer have confidence "hope and change"... truly meant anything other than... "the ususal Washington DC politics"? "Yes we can", has now become "No you didn't". The American people are awaiting the results of all the promises of "change and transparency" from this current administration and of Congress, while receiving absolutley nothing in return but more promises and spending. Blame Bush... is their mantra... WHY? It doesn't work any longer and the American people are letting you know just that.

However, will Democrats (and Republicans, Conservatives, Independents and Liberals) finally wake up and realize they truly "work for the American people... and... not the other way around"? Will the politicians, of all parties, now listen to the voices of the American people and feel the "true pulse of hope and change"? Are you listening Mr President, Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Reid?

INTERESTING SIDE NOTE: In Vietnam, the "real AIR AMERICA"... brought relief and supplies to many in desolate locations... in the United States, "the liberal Air America"... was the liberal talkshow alleged answer to Mr. Rush Limbaugh and other conservative talkshows as well as radio, but now, the liberal Air America is in bankruptcy and have closed their studios. No more spoon-fed nonsense. WHY? If there is such a demand from the far left for such shows and entertainment why did the liberal Air America go bankrupt and belly-up? Can an answer possibly be... the will of the American people?

Should be an interesting ride from here....

Posted on Feb 6, 2010 1:56:48 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 6, 2010 2:40:18 PM PST
"I know absolutely very little... nor do I care to know too much... of politics."

/this

You've said more in that one sentence than all the other things you've posted!

"Are the Republican gains "a sign of things to come" that the American people no longer have confidence "hope and change"... truly meant anything other than... "the ususal Washington DC politics"? "Yes we can", has now become "No you didn't"."

-------------------------------

Well Joe, I would reserve the "hasn't done anything" line for, I don't know, let's say......the next presidential election cycle, that will be the only time the lame duck argument will ever be true. Many presidents have done well with the other party having control of congress. Plus, you have to decide Joe: either he's evil or he hasn't done anything...it can't be both. Either he has taken this country in a direction you don't like, or he has taken us nowhere at all -- again, both are are equally negative criticisms, but it cannot be both, sorry, it can't.

This is why the last week of speeches made by the president seemed to give him momentum, shut up a lot of charlatans within the republican party for awhile (by pointing out their voting records no less!), and are starting to energize the administration again. What makes it more effective is that people like you make armchair criticisms using wacky math (just go look at how our economy is ACTUALLY doing right now, not just the DOW Jones and S&P 500 Indexes). Also, when people are screaming "tax cuts" at huge deficits (left by the last administration who basically gutted social security to pay for two questionably appropriate wars and a recession that has been happening since Sept. 13th, 2001, and don't reply trying to use the housing boom as an argument, that was an artificially created bubble...errhmm), they probably didn't get too far in math during school, or personal finance for that matter. Either we give money to the people directly through tax cuts, or we try to pay off our debt; again, we can't do both without one affecting the other. Its that simple... so, if you're crying about huge deficits... while at the same time saying "taxes are just too high", I'd say that you're not being serious at all, and this is just some big popularity contest to you, and you're playing pin the tail on the donkey with your justifications and reasoning. Pick a gripe and stick with it, and makes sure it doesn't contradict your other opinions.

Also, when republican politicians are repudiating a bill they co-authored and co-signed, merely because the president thinks its a good idea, and if he says that, they'll lose constituents; that just goes to show that republicans are playing a parlour game with our democracy -- Ideas are only "right" if they are made by the appropriate party or platform, otherwise, they are socialist tricks.

People in the center (whom a majority of the country identifies with), and on the left are starting to get sick of the "party of 'no'", and don't even let me get started about the tea-party movement. They leave a sour taste in people's mouths, because they don't seem to want to get anything done except hamper the president in anything he does, because they are on the defensive. People are also starting to realize that the tea party movement, with all its good ideas, is basically just a big PR machine for small party candidates and people who would have never made it into ANY political office without it. People are starting to also realize that:

A) Republican candidates aren't necessarily who the tea party movements favor, because they are viewed as "politics as usual"

B) Tea party movements are a self-defeating prophecy, because if the conservatives aren't supporting the republican party -- just a bunch of independents, they are pretty much throwing away their vote (Perot or Nader anyone?) , thus the movement cannot sustain itself for long without its leaders becoming republicans, or the political playing field of the country changes vastly during the next 3 years where a third party could actually receive enough votes to gain any power whatsoever.

So yeah, the Repubs could get a few seats back this next cycle, it isn't going to matter. If you've been reading at all this last week, or seeing murmurs of it on fringe political TV or radio -- the president has figured out that trying to cross the aisle isn't working. He's learned that every time he reaches out to a conservative, even in his own party, it's an elaborate rope-a-dope trick designed to waste energy on bipartisanship. The democrats are probably going to start pushing for party unity on going forward and having an effective majority/administration. So maybe it should change to "yes we can, with or without you, your choice".

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2010 3:49:34 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 7, 2010 7:53:00 AM PST
My thread began with.... THIS IS MY OPINION

Mr. or Ms. JK..... Thank you for responding. If I recall correctly your call sign is....."Conservative, a 50 cent word meaning "moron""..... Good for you! I noticed you dislike the "right" so very much, but didn't mention what you thought of the left, with their "successes and failures"? Since you consider conservatives to be moron(s), then quite possibily you might think liberals to be "idiotic"?

You appear to believe only the "left" has the true answers for America's survival. We both know that it will be both parties. It therefore appears to any intellectual, you may not be as open-minded, un-biased, free-spirted, or clearl-thinker, as you want all to believe... Please tell me you are not blinded by your own politics, and you do see both sides. You may desire others to think you are fair, but are you in that respect? So we both know where you are coming from... and... we can refrain from the jabs and disrespet. We have had our difference of opinions before and that is fine with me and should be with you too.

Your comments are your very own and I respect them... although I may not agree with your opinion... nor are they... "fact". I soley expressed my opinion, which you dislike because of your politics. Yes I gladly and proudly admit being military, I never cared for politics, but I am not ashamed of that fact. You attempt to make it appear, by my honest admission, I am ignorant or naive. That is your perogative. I assure you Mr. or Ms. JK... I simply posted 'MY OPINION"... just as you have posted yours.

So your jab....."You've said more in that one sentence than all the other things you've posted!".... is quite comical... but not even close to being fact or the truth.... just your opinion... (see how it works?). With that comment, you presented yourself to be politically intolerant of opinions that are contrary to yours. Your two points "on the right and the tea party movement" are quite interesting. Maybe you should take your own advice and wait and see what happens with that specific movement as well. You appear to be frightened by the tea party movement, just as the British feared the American rebellion. I understand this past weekend, the tea party activists had a pretty good showing.

You opine....."People in the center (whom a majority of the country identifies with), and on the left are starting to get sick of the "party of 'no'", and don't even let me get started about the tea-party movement. They leave a sour taste in people's mouths, because they don't seem to want to get anything done except hamper the president in anything he does, because they are on the defensive. People are also starting to realize that the tea party movement, with all its good ideas, is basically just a big PR machine for small party candidates and people who would have never made it into ANY political office without it."...

How do you know factually... those in the center... and... the left... are starting to get sick of the "party of no"? Do you mean the Democrats... who are getting nothing done... or... the Republicans who are trying to get something, anything done? Since the Republicans have now "41 votes" in the senate, we'll see... what is accomplished... and... by whom.

Your opinion... not fact.... is the president is being hampered. Maybe just like Mr. Bush was being hampered huh? I know you desire the tea party movement to be of no essence or substance... but that just might be wishful thinking on your part. What you opine, might be so... but shouldn't we wait and see what the American people say... after the midterm elections... and... the presidential election... to see if your opinions are correct and factual. The facts are just that, the facts, and we will see in the midterm and presidential election(s) what the outcome(s) will be... when the American people again vote and make their decision(s).

Your opinion....."Well Joe, I would reserve the "hasn't done anything" line for, I don't know, let's say......the next presidential election cycle, that will be the only time the lame duck argument will ever be true. Many presidents have done well with the other party having control of congress. Plus, you have to decide Joe: either he's evil or he hasn't done anything...it can't be both. Either he has taken this country in a direction you don't like, or he has taken us nowhere at all -- again, both are are equally negative criticisms, but it cannot be both, sorry, it can't."....

I don't have to decide if he is evil or if he hasn't done anything, I have already made up my own mind. The American people will decide if he has accomplished all his goals, and has keep all the promises he made, during the presidential election. The direction where Mr. Obama is leading our counrty will be his legacy and history will also define his successes or failures in that endeavor. You opine they... "again, both are are equally negative criticisms, but it cannot be both, sorry, it can't."..... that is not fact... that is only opinion.

Thank you for the "political science" lesson. I really did appreciate it. But please tell me again what has been "successfully accomplished" by this President and this Congress (Democrats, Republicans and Independents) within the past 13 months that has done any good to the American people? Has anything, at all, in Washington DC changed for the positive? Is there tru transparency in government? Any backroom deals going on? Is "everything" out and open for the American people to see for thermselves and make up their own minds?

I simply expressed my opinion, which you did not agree with. I did not insist it was fact. I said my piece and you said yours. That is just fine with me and it should also be fine with you. You further opine....."So yeah, the Repubs could get a few seats back this next cycle, it isn't going to matter."..... again, your opinion... not fact, Mr. or Ms. JK. I think it will matter quite a bit to the American people and I think you might also believe that yourself, although you don't desire to admit it to me or to yourself or to anyone else. We will need to see how it plays out, don't you agree?

It was not my slogan "yes we can". However, "with or without you"... will depend on the American people themselves. I only made an opinion... that so far it's... "no we can't and no we haven't". We can give each other "negative(s)", all we desire, if you like, I simply returned the compliment to you, since you were so kind to do so first.

I simply expressed my opinion... you expressed your opinion... that is the way it works. Neither of us should be ashamed of that fact. Mr. or Ms. JK.

Sir or Ma'am.... you are not going to change my opinion... and... I am not going to change yours. That is not the purpose... why I expressed my opinion or why you expressed yours. I continue to think....."Should be an interesting ride from here".... Take care...

Posted on Feb 9, 2010 1:34:05 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 9, 2010 5:44:13 PM PST
Oh wow, this last reply is a doozy, I don't think I know where to begin...

I mean, seriously, you prattle on about "political arrogance and ineptitude", but then you deliver it in spades.

The glaring incongruity of your opinions?
Your armchair psychoanalysis of me and my opinions?
The fact that you use the word opine, which is one of those notorious "I want to sound smart" words.
Where you try to present opinions as facts?
Your dainty sensibilities?

Oh heck, I'll just go over all of them, this is a red letter day for sure!

First off:

"So your jab....."You've said more in that one sentence than all the other things you've posted!".... is quite comical... but not even close to being fact or the truth.... just your opinion... (see how it works?). With that comment, you presented yourself to be politically intolerant of opinions that are contrary to yours."

You think this is some kind of retort, but please, read over what you write slowly to make sure that you're actually saying something, especially if it's meant to be a "jab" back. Sure I'm intolerant, pointing that out is like pointing the sky is blue. I'm not some goober liberal that's going to take "intolerant" as some kind of insult, or a logical response to my argument, because it's neither. Besides, I thought conservatives hated tolerance because they think that its a myth generated by PC libs? Am I wrong? Oh yeah, and is I remember it, that comment was apropos of you saying that you have almost no care or understanding of politics or political processes, so my opinion is your opinion:

"I know absolutely very little... nor do I care to know too much... of politics." -- Joseph Romero, Jr.

I don't get it. Aren't we in agreement then? I think you're having a bit of memory trouble on your end, and comprehension issues. This is kind of like when you were claiming I was censoring you by reading your posts and responding. LOGIC FAIL. Besides, if you're gonna softball me quotes like that, I'm gonna hit 'em out of the park. Next!

"You appear to believe only the "left" has the true answers for America's survival. We both know that it will be both parties. It therefore appears to any intellectual, you may not be as open-minded, un-biased, free-spirted, or clearl-thinker, as you want all to believe... Please tell me you are not blinded by your own politics, and you do see both sides. You may desire others to think you are fair, but are you in that respect?"

That's a lot of assumptions, and I'm pretty sure by your candor and tone when writing that you do not take your own advice. I would re-read this, replace the word "left" with "right", think about what you write regularly and then I implore you to try and tell me that this isn't also a perfect description of yourself. If you have ever, and I mean EVER used the word liberal as a pejorative (and I know you have), then I would think twice before making the "can't we all just get along" argument. To be fair, yes, I have some very harsh words about conservatives, but when listening to the rhetorical styling of the other side, trust me, it's not without precedent. I can only hear a finite amount of disingenious comments, gaps in logic and glib arrogance before I feel compelled to make an example of them. Conservatives as a whole aren't the best candidates for "the politest and most thoughtful discourse of the year" awards, so I wouldn't try to rest on your laurels for that one, I'd maybe find some leafier laurels. Seriously, I was linked to this discussion from a book by Michele Malkin (whom you've LAUDED) of all people... if you don't understand the irony that that fact casts on your "stop being so insulting" comments, then its really just sad. Again, I wouldn't get sanctimonious about your rhetoric being without insult, because I've read many of your posts, you should be the last one making that claim. I'd also hate to think that after all these comments you've made, you think of yourself as an "intellectual," trust me, I don't think many people would put you on that particular pedestal.

I think the bottom line here is that you tend to think that, somehow, my opinion about conservatives somehow nullifies the rest of my arguments. I'm just supposed to openly accept views regardless of the thought process or lack thereof behind them. I think we dealt with this in our last little back-and-forth; about how flippant that is, and how it shows that you have the emotional maturity of a teenager if you refuse to argue with someone when they refuse to do it on your terms, because they are using language that you don't like or pointing out the glaring fallacies surrounding your opinions as if it were some affront. That's just silly, friend, utterly silly. Please don't put your head in the sand like that, people reading that say can easily take it as: "I have no logical argument so I'm going to argue about your semantics and etiquette, yup, that'll throw 'em off"

My other favorite part is this cartoonish image of me that you keep trying to construct. You keep assuming I do certain things and think certain things. It's cute really. You do realize that the word "assume" is basically worthless, right? Does it makes it easier to argue with someone you've constructed in your mind? Because that's what you're doing. I bet I look like a hippie. I bet I'm eating granola and watching Rachel Maddow, all while burning a flag and holding a welfare check. See? It sounds silly when I point it out doesn't it? Try arguing based on facts and opinions, not irrelevant things such as how I feel about conservatives or my language. So please, quit with the persecution complex; just because I disagree insultingly with your opinion is no affront to you as a person, its your opinion, not you. "Sending it back" in no way affects my day, me emotionally, or my psyche. All it does is show the maturity level and intellect of who I'm arguing with. By the way, you're not doing so hot. Next!

Oh wait, this chestnut:

"I don't have to decide if he is evil or if he hasn't done anything, I have already made up my own mind."

Joe..c'mon, That doesn't even make sense. I also think you entirely missed the point of the argument which is: its IMPOSSIBLE to have those two ideas exist simultaneously. I don't care that you've made up your mind, because that doesn't add into it one bit. And I thought the dem's symbol was a braying, obstinate jackass... It's elementary logic really, so easy that a seven year-old could learn it:

To be evil, he has to do evil things, get it? He has to do SOMETHING! Some action has to be performed that is evil for him to be evil. If he hasn't done anything, he hasn't done anything evil either, because he hasn't done anything. If he hasn't done anything, he can't be evil, since not doing anything means he hasn't done something evil. I'm not saying that its invalid to have either opinion, but they can't exist together at the same time, they contradict each other. See? It's not that hard to actually think about what you're reading rather than making knee-jerk talking points and half-assed retorts out of them. This is what's so highly annoying with conservatives these days, in regards to this president, conservatives want to have their cake and eat it too. You're blindly picking from a list of arguments against him; so much so that the arguments, like the one stated above, start to contradict each other and in the words of Mr. Spock: "highly illogical." It's starting to get sad.

The other one I love:

"Since the Republicans have now "41 votes" in the senate, we'll see... what is accomplished... and... by whom."

Here's a little math lesson. You have 100 people in the senate. 41 of them are republican. That means that 41% of the senate are republican. Are you with me still? Good. To be a majority, you have to have more than half the total number, which would be 51 seats. So republicans aren't the majority right now by a margin of almost 20% or 1/5 of the total senate, which leaves them in a place where its impossible to pass things without democrat support. Here's where it gets tricky though, repubs can do those "scary" filibusters, right? To beat one of those, you have to have 60 senators. Well, the dems have only 59 seats right now, so the republicans have stopped the democrats for sure! Big whoop, you have the power to filibuster if all else fails, I don't see how you're making the assertion that repubs are going to accomplish anything. Plus, you forget about cloture votes, which have the power to stop the filibuster. Oh, and sitting out the filibuster, that can be done too, it's pretty easy actually. You just wait until the ponce who's trying to stall with a filibuster runs out of steam. Looks like your little power prediction isn't as accurate as you thought it would be. Oh, and even if republicans were to get some seats back next cycle, I guarantee you that the won't have the majority, they'll just close the gap a bit. Sorry, math and time are on my side on this one, you're the one who is using wishful thinking .

Oh no, democrats went from a supermajority to a very nice majority. Obama must be running for the hills (I just wish you could see the eye-roll I just did, my ocular muscles are a bit sore)

I also would have to think that you're smarter than thinking that the tea-party movement and the republican party are one in the same. Lest my eyes and ears deceive me, the tea party movement has issues with the repubs too for playing "politics as usual." Oh yeah... and the handling of the economy for the last two terms because, apparently, spending wildly isn't "conservative" even if a conservative is doing it. We've even seen in these recent gubernatorial and congressional races that the "tea party" candidate and the "republican" candidate tend to gather two different camps of supporters with lots animosity towards each other. So much so that little spats have been started between those backing said candidates (See Sarah Palin vis-a-vis supporting McCain in Arizona, she's drawn a lot of fire).

With that knowledge, I'd say its perfectly reasonable to see a split within the republican party over "conservative purity", and as we are starting to see, its tearing apart the republican party slowly. Here inlies the tragedy though: America abhors third party candidates, look at history. That's what the tea partiers seem to forget. They are too conservative, even though they claim to be multiplatform (I fail to see how liberals would join a movement that touts mostly conservative ideals), to be republicans. Plus, you forget that this movement as a whole isn't UNIFIED. Its a thousand little movements, that have a lot in common with each other, but they are still disparate. Divide and fail, simple concept. Like I said, you're going to see a lot of Perot and Nader-style campaigns coming out of the tea party movement, so no Joe, I wouldn't assess myself as being scared of the movements, probably more "skeptical". Next.

"Your opinion... not fact.... is the president is being hampered. Maybe just like Mr. Bush was being hampered huh?"

Wow, this one is just too precious. I seem to remember that the only "hampering" Mr. Bush got early on was from Russ Feingold. I seem to remember that not even 5 years ago "hampering" was basically defined as having the audacity to question any of Bush's policies because he was a war-time president and needs to lead the country without dissent. I tend to remember hearing this line come from the mouths of many people like you: "He's the president, and even though you may disagree, keep it quiet and let him do his job." Strange how that line disappears from conservatives minds the day the democrat gets voted into office.

Let's see, an example of hampering...hmm. Oh, I got it:

- a filibuster over DISCUSSING and DEBATING the health care bill in the senate
- a ridiculous smear campaign against Sonia Sotomayor's confirmation, based largely on one out-of-context comment and a whole lot of fantasy
- unwillingness to discuss an energy bill with any seriousness beyond "drill baby, drill"
- talks of stopping any kind of EPA legislation dealing with greenhouse gas emissions, before it even hits the debating floor
- calling for a spending freeze, and then calling it a terrible idea when it happens

...just a few of many.

I'd tend to believe you more when you say its my opinion, but I've counted at least twice so far in this presidency that a filibuster has been used as a threat against a simple DEBATE over a bill. I've got facts on my side, sorry.

Oh, and this:

"Is there tru transparency in government? Any backroom deals going on? Is "everything" out and open for the American people to see for thermselves and make up their own minds?"

Besides the obvious answer of "of course there isn't", this leaves a whole lot of 'splainin to do on your end as a conservative. Tell me again which supreme court justices voted to let corporations fund political campaigns without limit? Oh, and foreign corporations, who let them basically have a say in our politics at all levels? Was it the liberal justices? Tell me again, Antonin Scalia is a widely outspoken ____________? I'm pretty sure the answer isn't "liberal". So, I wouldn't be touting conservatives for their skills at open government, they talk a good game, but in the end don't deliver. I can pull up countless examples. Naive idealism, next!

Maybe its my opinion, but we did just have 8 years of a conservative (GWB was a conservative to you all until his poll numbers went in the toilet, I'm gonna stop that little piece of revisionism dead in its tracks). Where are we at right now? Well, somehow didn't know how to handle the economy right, so its weak. We started one war, it started out excellently, we start another one, starts excellently, but fails. Then, the first place we are at war in starts failing too, now we are in two wars, one of which we are still HEAVILY fighting, the other we are cautiously optimistic about getting done with. Big achievement there conservatives. We spent loads of money on a border fence, that while marginally effective in SOME AREAS, is probably the worst money pit of modern ages, not to mention the money and time it costs us in law enforcement, white people are still committing crimes in mass numbers too guys. Oh, and a Pacific missile defense system that fails 3/4 of its tests and also has no foreseeable funding end, big triumph there.

With all of this, maybe we should try a different approach to things, instead of tying the president down to make sure he can't do anything with any efficacy, because he's "evil" and a "socialist". With all of this going on, maybe it would behoove us to not separate from mainstream America into asinine factions that only exist in response to said president. Maybe its time to stop with the Germany 1933 references and photoshopped pictures of Obama as the joker and help work to put this country back together, instead of screaming and crying like little babies because you don't like the way he's doing it. If you have a better idea than the president, by all means, present it....but it must be a better idea and not just an argument against him.

Here's a better slogan I just thought up! "Put down that crybaby sign, grab a shovel, and get back to work...time is money America, and your wasting a lot of it."

In the end, believe what you want, and I will too. I especially like how you went back and...

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 9, 2010 4:48:59 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 9, 2010 5:27:30 PM PST
Talk about WOW... I did enjoy your response, which was well thought out, and very well presented. But, which is simply "your opinion, not fact". I again respect your opinion(s), Mr. or Ms. JK... although I do not agree with it... nor are they fact, just because you say so. What is a shame is you do not respect my opinion. This thread was started as "an opinion". I don't care of you agree with my opinion(s), but being an American... means you should "respect all opinion(s)". I respect yours... I just don't agree with them. Am I wrong there too? If you don't know where to begin, neither do I, but here we go...

Your last sentence is where I think I'll begin, because it makes sense....."In the end, believe what you want, and I will too. I especially like how you went back and... OK, if that is how you desire to end your comments... that is fine with me. Even after your lengthy response you said it correctly... in the end, believe what you want, and I will too.

Mr. or Ms. JK, the fact of the matter is you will not change my mind, nor will I change yours, and that is what this is all about. It is not my purpose whyen I presented my opinion, to change yours. I do appreciate your political lesson. However, I made an opinion... and you do not agree with it. So what? By your lengthy response you appear to be politically blinded by your politics... and.... as much as you respond, you just prove my point. You present a political diatribe and will admit an opinion, is just that, an opinion. I made an opinion... you do not agree with... again, so what? Diversity in America... means there are many & numerous "opinions", and we... "AMERICANS"... must all learn to respect, even though we do not agree with those opinions.

Of course you would think about being a crybaby and intolerant of opposing political views, because that is what you are presenting to me, yourself and any interested readers. We have different opinions, so what again and again? It is you opinion I am wasting my time, not mine. I presented a thread, which was my opinion. After 34 years in the military (with an excellent retirement pension, may I add) and now my graduate degrees in tow, I am having a great old time... and... so should you. I do not need to get back to my shovel and get back to work for any reason. Being retired is pretty nice here in paradise.

What are you so angry and bitter about? POLITICS? Is it possible I am right on target about you. Is that what is driving you so madly, to respond and continue to comment on just.... MY OPINION?

You describe....
"The glaring incongruity of your opinions?
Your armchair psychoanalysis of me and my opinions?
The fact that you use the word opine, which is one of those notorious "I want to sound smart" words.
Where you try to present opinions as facts? Your dainty sensibilities?"......

Sounds like I hit an exposed and very raw nerve, very deeply, with each one of those points you, yourself described. That would be your problem Mr. or Ms. JK, not mine and you know that. If there is any cartoonish image of you, I did not present it, it is one you presented for all to see and read fior themselves. Describing yourself as a liberal goober is what you decide to be. I do not care if you are or not.

Mr. or Ms. JK.... you state....."softball me quotes like that, I'm gonna hit 'em out of the park. Next!".... but of course you think you will... but so far you haven't. I presented an opinion, MY OPINION, you do not agree with. You admit to having harsh words about conservatives. Ok, so what? Your opinion is your own and it is not fact.

I specifically enjoyed your statement...."I'd also hate to think that after all these comments you've made, you think of yourself as an "intellectual," trust me, I don't think many people would put you on that particular pedestal.".... Whether I am an "intellectual", by your definition or not, makes no difference. I am an American, and I have the right to my own opinions, whether you. as an American, agree or diasgree with. Mr. or Ms. JK, I am well aware of my educational credentials and accomplishments, as well as my achievements in my military career. I am very proud and pleased with both. An "intellectual"? How about... "an AMERICAN"?

Is my math is wrong and the republicans have 41% of the vote? Are you saying the democracts can do as they please in the Senate, without having to explain themselves? My point is the republicans can now filibuster, what possibly the democrats desire to pass, and that does throw a monkey wrench into the democrats ability to do as they please, without explaining themselves to the American people.

Your views, opinions, thoughts and ideas are your very own and they are politically motivated. I find nothing wrong with that, but you will not change my mind... or... the minds of others who feel as I do. Mr. or Ms. JK, we do not polically agree. That is fact and is not just my opinion, but it appears yours as well. Live with it, just as I do.

I again say, we will wait and see what the midterm (and presidential) election(s) bring forth to the American people. We will see what the American people have to say about all this. Mr. or Ms. JK, you do not speak for ALL AMERICANS... and... neither do I. You present your opinions and I present mine. Why is that driving you so politically insane? You appear to adore politics, I do not. I am not a political scientist, nor do I desire to be. What I am... is an American... who expressed my opinion(s), which you are very unhappy with. Take care....

Posted on Feb 9, 2010 5:32:16 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 9, 2010 6:03:10 PM PST
Is that the best you could come up with? You aren't arguing against anything I've said, just reinforcing it all by showing that it all goes over your head.

Tell me again how I'm bitter or something, because there is no factual basis to any of your statements, whereas, even though you don't want to believe...yeah, there are facts sprinkled in mine.

For instance, the filibuster, I think I just explained how easy that is to get around...but apparently, having that power (which is basically the legislative version of a LAST RESORT) makes the Republicans strong? I'd check over your reasoning on that one Joe.

"I have no logical argument so I'm going to argue about your semantics and etiquette, yup, that'll throw 'em off" -- still holding true Joe, you can't just turn this into some nonsensical talking points machine, there is an issue of relevance involved. Do you know what an ad hominem attack is? Its where you attack the person arguing with you, and not the argument itself. Its also a logical fallacy, which means it is invalid to the argument, i.e. irrelevant. Sorry, all the dirty rebuttal tricks in the world can't disguise the fact that you do not survive well in the world of facts.

A few short points:

- I never said I speak for all Americans, you made that up and I don't know where you're getting that, it is in fact you sir, whom keeps implying that you speak for all Americans as some kind of vague threat.
- Just because you say something is an opinion and not a fact, does not make it true. You have to provide a warrant to your claims, that is the structure of argument. You can't just claim something and move on, its called substance, or is that just my opinion too?
- You implied yourself that you were some kind of intellectual, sorry, you did.
- Of course I'm bitter, this last year I've had to put up with levels of idiocy and disingenousness that no man should be put through, and I think I made that pretty clear. If you're just "guessing" that from the last post, I again question your reading comprehension skills
- I said I'm NOT a liberal goober, reading skills Joe, learn them

"You describe....
"The glaring incongruity of your opinions?
Your armchair psychoanalysis of me and my opinions?
The fact that you use the word opine, which is one of those notorious "I want to sound smart" words.
Where you try to present opinions as facts? Your dainty sensibilities?"......

Sounds like I hit an exposed and very raw nerve, very deeply, with each one of those points you, yourself described. That would be your problem Mr. or Ms. JK, not mine and you know that."

I'm still trying to parse that. I think you missed writing a sentence, because that in and of itself is neither insultory, nor makes sense. I think you're trying to say "lalala I know you are but what am I?" (again, flippancy), but it just comes out in this sentence that is so poorly worded and doesn't really describe an idea at all, that you've just made a bigger fool of yourself.

I think before you read my responses you need to re-read what you wrote, because I think you're getting mixed-up:

"Mr. or Ms. JK.... you state....."softball me quotes like that, I'm gonna hit 'em out of the park. Next!".... but of course you think you will... but so far you haven't. I presented an opinion, MY OPINION, you do not agree with. You admit to having harsh words about conservatives. Ok, so what? Your opinion is your own and it is not fact. I specifically enjoyed your statement...."I'd also hate to think that after all these comments you've made, you think of yourself as an "intellectual," trust me, I don't think many people would put you on that particular pedestal.".... Whether I am an "intellectual", by your definition or not, makes no difference because I am an American and I have the right to my own opinions, which you as an American do not agree with. I am well aware of my educational credentials and my military career. I am very proud and pleased with both."

In that last paragraph, you're not really saying anything of value, if you put my quote in the context of what you were saying before. You are being needlessly repetitive and misrepresenting the point of the original statements. My point was: I don't care if you think I hate conservatives. Not all Americans are conservatives, there are plenty of moderates and liberals out there. Too many people conservative or liberal is a synonym for "correct." I despise both types of those people. Many people think that they're the "common man", so if they're conservative, then ANY view a little to left of theirs, even centrist ones, are liberal. Its called a skew. I also despise that. You've got me wrong too. I get along great with conservatives, as long as they aren't being glib, arrogant or moronic in their views. I also tend to stay away from political discussions in real life. Why? Because I know that my views won't make too many friends. In fact, I get along with most people except for internet tough guys who think they're an expert on everything. I also think you focus too much on tolerance, which might make you more liberal than you thought. So please, tell me again how I hate conservatives, I fail to see any relevance beyond the fact that you're trying, and failing, to use it against me.

So please, try next time to be smarmy with a little more effort. You're being childish, you're military man, you should be better than that. 0/10

Also, cleverly cutting an pasting my quotes doesn't work if the previous lines of conversation are on the screen too, sorry, you can't play fast and loose with them when everything is on the screen in context.

Maybe focus more on backing up your opinions with something heavier than hot air instead of focusing on me.

Again: "Put down that crybaby sign, grab a shovel, and get back to work...time is money America, and your wasting a lot of it."

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 9, 2010 7:37:40 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 10, 2010 8:44:00 AM PST
Mr. or Ms. JK... why should I disrespect your opinion and argue with you about it? Remember? Your comments and opinions, are opposed to my political beliefs, nothing more and nothing less. You provided your opinion and I provided mine. You desire for me to argue with you... for what purpose? Will I change your mind? Will you change mine? We believe seperate political views. Why should I argue with you because of your beliefs, thoughts, ideas, views and opinions? You are entitled to believe what you believe and I am as well. You see, I am tolerant and fully understand the concept of diversity in America. You are not reflecting wisdom or experience, just because you desire to argue... for the sake of arguing. Why should I argue your opinions... when you already know I disagree with them... but I respect them?

You state....."You aren't arguing against anything I've said, just reinforcing it all by showing that it all goes over your head.".....
but of course, in your mind, you must be right, because you say so. Mr. or Ms. JK... I don't have to remind you how bitter you are... when you do that yourself, with your behavior and comments!

You explained the filibuster very well, thank you. Now let us see, as time goes by, if you will be correct... and... if that will impact on the democrats or not, passing any legislation. Mr. or Ms. JK, you "opine"....."I have no logical argument so I'm going to argue about your semantics and etiquette, yup, that'll throw 'em off" -- still holding true Joe, you can't just turn this into some nonsensical talking points machine, there is an issue of relevance involved. Do you know what an ad hominem attack is? Its where you attack the person arguing with you, and not the argument itself. Its also a logical fallacy, which means it is invalid to the argument, i.e. irrelevant. Sorry, all the dirty rebuttal tricks in the world can't disguise the fact that you do not survive well in the world of facts.".....

That is your opinion and I respect it... I don't agree with it... nor is it fact... just because you say so... but I respect it. You desire to argue just for argument sake? That is neither wise or intellectually sound and you know that... or you should. You are making yourself appear to be bitter and very politically inspired, which is fine, if that is what you desire to do. Works for me, if it works for you.

Your comments are disrespectful and I do not believe in maintaining a conversation based on disrespect. I again remind you, I am very proud of my educational accomplishments and credentials, reading skills or not. You simply desire to argue opinions and you have already lost that argument because in America, we argue opinions all the time. Neither one of us is correct nor wrong. Opinions are your very own calling card.

We are on seperate ends of the political spectrum. That appears to upset you so. WHY? There is nothing wrong with that. Mr. or Ms. JK, your opinions are just that and for you to imply any different, you appear to be intolerant. That is simply not the American way. You can provide all the personal insults or name-calling you desire. If that is your tactic, go at it. It reflects your frustration.

It is quite interesting when you state...."In that last paragraph, you're not really saying anything of value, if you put my quote in the context of what you were saying before."..... Your own words represent you Mr. or Ms. JK. I assure you, words are valued, if spoken with respect. You have lacked that in each of your posts. Now it is your turn to re-read your posts. Again, you can insult all you desire, but that is not going to turn your opinions into fact.

I agree, everyone, who is interested, can read for themselves our exchanges. Mr. or Ms. JK, please do not flatter yourself with your statement....."Maybe focus more on backing up your opinions with something heavier than hot air instead of focusing on me."...... If someone is "focusing on someone", it just might be... "YOU", Sir or Ma'am... simply because, you will not respect the fact... I expressed my opinion... which is contrary to yours.

You see your intellectual disadvantage Mr. or Ms. JK... because of your political bitterness and admitted hatred of conservatives? You remain blinded by your politics... and... that is fine with me. So you hate conservatives? How is that relevant... other than you... yourself... explaining your political blindness to opposing opinions? I assure you, I do not need to back up my opinions... to you... or... anyone else... because this is America... and... I have the right to express my opinions, views, thoughts, ideas, and beliefs.... especially if I express "poltitical opinions". It is because I am a military man, that I do not need to do so. Who is being childish, in my opinion, is the person who does not respect opposing opinions because of their politics. Sir or Ma'am, I do not need to put down the crybaby sign, or grab a shovel, because you are doing just that to yourself, with every word you utter.

Mr. or Ms. JK... thank you for your concern about my finances, but, I have already made my money... I helped pay for our daughters college degree(s)... and... their wedding(s)... (FIVE in all... that is 5 college degrees... and..... 5 weddings... all paid in full)...

In my opinion, I am not wasting any of the cash and/or investments, from my military pension and current educational salary, because my wife and I live very comfortably and content, on our island paradise (she is an MD). We travel extensively throughout Asia, Southeast Asia, and the Pacific rim. We are very happy with our lives and those of our children and grandchildren (we have already invested for the college tuition(s) for our 13 granddaughters, as well). Thanks again for your concern about my opinions, finances, life, education and experience. Hope you have a rewarding and fulfilling one as well.

Take care...
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Participants:  2
Total posts:  7
Initial post:  Jan 20, 2010
Latest post:  Feb 9, 2010

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Culture of Corruption: Obama and His Team of Tax Cheats, Crooks, and Cronies
Culture of Corruption: Obama and His Team of Tax Cheats, Crooks, and Cronies by Michelle Malkin (Audio CD - September 1, 2009)
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