Customer Reviews

Beethoven: The Nine Symphonies

5 star:		(40)
4 star:		(13)
3 star:		(5)
2 star:		(3)
1 star:		(0)

 

 

In light of such positive feedback of what I considered a sub-par review, I've decided to rewrite this and add some things that have recently come to light, namely comparisons that I've drawn to more recent recordings such as Paavo Jarvi's cycle with Bremen and Norrington's newer cycle with the SRSO, two cycles that are similar in scope to Zinman's.

I arrived at this cycle years ago after I grew increasingly disgusted with my previous set - Karajan's renowned '63 cycle with Berlin, characterized by sluggish and grandiose interpretations of what I think should be turbulent, violent, breathless music. At the time, this set stood as the only modern instrument alternative to such traditional interpretations, and I had not yet discovered the period-instrument culture, so this cycle was a must for me, and still remains close to the top of my list.

Zinman's cycle is sort of a hybrid of modern and period styles. A few specific points on this factor:
1) The instruments themselves are modern, as in Norrington's cycle (I think). Zinman would go on to use natural brass for his recordings of the overtures and the concertos, as well as his Schumann cycle, but not here. Jarvi's brass - standard modern horns paired with natural trumpets, are much more incisive and closer in sound to Zinman's later (improved, in my opinion) brass.
2) Zinman keeps vibrato in the strings from getting out of hand, while not "banning" it altogether as Norrington does. Jarvi steers a path between the two. All three approaches are fine, in my opinion.
3) You'll hear the horns muting (stopping) some of their notes in the natural horn style. This is interesting at some points, but it can get a little too buzzy for my tastes, and this interferes with the solo lines much more than it should. Norrington's modern horns play in the conventional style. Jarvi again steers a middle course, only having the horns mute for coloristic effect, and usually when they aren't in the foreground.
4) Zinman's modern seating is a drawback for me. Norrington and Jarvi both use old-school antiphonal violin seating, and this is almost essential, in my opinion, especially for symphonies like the 4th that rely so much on those schizophrenic back-and-forth effects that were common up through Mahler's music and beyond.
5) Zinman reduces the quantity of strings, using combinations of about 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, or 14, 12, 10, 8, and 6, giving us a large chamber orchestra feel. Balances between the strings and winds are very good, and there is a strong bass presence. However, Jarvi's balances are even better, using an even smaller orchestra of 8 first violins down to 3 basses. Zinman keeps his brass heavily tamped down, while Norrington's entire cycle suffers from an annoyingly bombastic first trumpet. Jarvi allows his brass to shine through the texture, often to violent effect, without being overbearing.
6) Dynamics are observed uncompromisingly here, especially sudden differences between f and ff or p and pp. Phrasing tends to be very short and staccato, even down to the motoric 16th notes in the strings, which are played aggressively and spiccato. Most people mistakenly compare this to period style simply because it is different, but period instrument performances are much smoother in articulation. Of the three, Zinman's phrasing and articulation seem to be the most brusque, but on the other hand, he shapes the melodic lines very carefully and thoughtfully.
7) Zinman adopts Beethoven's rapid metronome markings, often hitting them right on the nose (only the last movement of the Eroica is significantly under the marking). To many listeners he may seem too fast, but for me it is the main attraction of this set. Simply put, Beethoven was an ambitious man, and pushed his orchestras to their technical limits in every respect, including what they could do within a given tempo. Zinman's interpretational choices seem to encourage these faster tempi (or perhaps vice versa?), and they sound completely natural. Norrington's pacing by contrast often seems awkward and unsteady. Jarvi's pacing is excellent, but his fidelity to the metronome figures is questionable in a couple spots (Norrington actually makes some bizarre choices of his own).
8) One thing almost no one has mentioned so far (and something that also appears in the Schumann cycle) is that Zinman has his woodwinds ornament their solo lines, adding little turns and trills here and there, even extending a cadenza or two in the case of the 5th and the 7th symphonies (sorry guys, that stuff isn't in the new edition). This is more reminiscent of baroque practice, and although one could certainly make a case for it boosting the spontaneity of a live performance, I don't think it has its place on records, where such spur of the moment choices become permanent and lose their meaning (I'm reminded of the Buddhist phrase "ichi-go ichi-e"). Furthermore, it is misleading to advertise these recordings as the first to use the new Barenreiter edition and then insert your own stuff, as evidenced by the fact that almost no one here has brought it up yet. Most of the hundreds of editorial revisions are much less audible.

The general consensus seems to be that Zinman fares best in places where a sense of gravitas isn't as much of a requirement. I tend to agree with this, although the 5th symphony is just fine. However, his 3rd suffers from a lack of emotional weight. His 9th is surprisingly good, to my ears, but I'm missing the sense of grandeur that other versions provide. I think Symphony 7 is the weakest link here, not because it needs more weight, but because the orchestra just sounds undernourished throughout, especially the horns.

I like to mix and match various interpretations within a symphony when I'm listening to Beethoven (usually from these three sets, with some Abbado and Benjamin Zander thrown in the mix). Call me unsophisticated, but I'm not very big on a singular "artist's vision". I sort of make my own up. That said, I have a clear preference for Jarvi's set when he does follow Beethoven's tempi. His ensemble seems more confident and more committed. Their sound quality, pacing, balance, attention to detail - it's all similar to Zinman's, just a little bit better. (Norrington is great too, but I can't get past that stupid first trumpet).

All three of the aforementioned cycles are quite edgy, so if you're looking for a modern instrument cycle that is a bit less caffeinated, Abbado and Vanska both provide a beefier approach that doesn't sacrifice Zinman's accuracy. Abbado is more vigorous where Vanska tends to be more refined. They're sort of halfway between these three and the standard fare. I won't even touch on period instrument stuff here, as I've gone on long enough.

The Beethoven symphonies are essential to any good music collection and the music lover has a ridiculously large number of recordings to select from. The selection process just got easier. The Tonhalle Orchestra Zurich (under the scorching direction of David Zinman) has recorded the 9 on the Arte Nova label. Now this would be a superb recording under any circumstances, but when you take into account that the entire set (5 CDs) sells for a terrific bargin price these recordings have no rival!!! Zinman uses the new critical Barenreiter Edition of Jonathan Del Mar, which means that many errors of the Breitkopf edition are corrected. Plus - and it is a real asset - Zinman tends to stick to Beethoven's blistering tempi. The little Turkish march in the 4th movement of the 9th just flies! The 8th symphony rips along like Haydn on crystal meth! I cannot recommend these performances too highly - they would be well worth a "full" price, but at this price it's a "no-brainer." Buy these, it will remind you why Beethoven is considered one of the titans of music.

This set is back in circulation and, apparently, all the recordings are now available individually. This is probably the more important development for people that want to sample Zinman's review of Beethoven using period speeds and the Bahrenreiter edition.

My overall impression of this set is that the recordings are uniformly rapid, or fast, and that the orchestra plays with exceptional clarity. I would say the two best performances in the set are the Symphonies Nos. 5 and 7 and would call the momentous Symphony No. 9 a miss. The others are good if this approach is what you want to hear.

For listeners used to performances by the likes of Bernstein, Bohm, Karajan, Furtwangler or other big names in the late 20th century tradition, this set may seem superficial. The speeds are uniformly fast -- the third movement of the Symphony No. 9 is done at such a rapid presto that you won't believe it -- and the performances may seem superficial as a result. No one will ever accuse Zinman of dragging his feet or being dull in this music.

Before acquiring this set my only Beethoven experience with Zinman was a performance of the "Creatures of Prometheus" ballet on the Vox label with the Baltimore Symphony. I thoroughly enjoyed that recording for years and looked forward to Zinman's traversal of the symphonies.

Apparently others did, too, since the set sold over 1 million copies in its original printing. This time, it is back at an even lower price. You can buy them on the cheap through an Amazon dealer, making this one of the most economical sets of Beethoven symphonies ever produced short of the famous set by the London Symphony Orchestra and Josef Krips, which continues to show up now and then on ultra cheap discount labels.

There is no comparision between the two sets, of course, since Krips adopted a Cenral European mid-20th century approach while Zinman adheres to period performance style, if not using period instruments. His vibrato is nonexistent, his speeds are rapid and his phrasing is clipped. All this tends to defeat the drama people loved in older recordings, but people attuned to 21st century performance style and sound should love these.

Personally, I find Zinman's approach secondary to the first set produced by Roger Norrington on EMI. What Norrington taught us about period performance -- that wasn't copied in Zinman's better sounding recordings -- is the Beethoven's orchestral tutti's build far more rapidly and explosively than anyone ever knew or portrayed on record, tape or CD. Norrington manages this while retaining every bit of drama and scope in the monumental odd-numbered symphonies while pushing the enveloped in the even-numbered symphonies.

Norrington's second set of Beethoven symphonies, recorded in concert for Hannsler Classics, is closer in style to this set by Zinman. For me, Zinman's performances, good as they are, do not readily compare to the drama put forth by Norrington 1 and are, by comparison, closer to being ordinary than exceptional. Still, this set is good value for the money and will give many hours of pleasure.

I'll give the cycle 5 stars in part because of the price and also in part because Zinman is well known and liked around here - having made some fine music with the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra for over a decade. As a second or third set of all nine Beethoven symphonies, these disks seem irresistible; even as a first set, they could be a fine choice.

Zinman is in tight control of his orchestra throughout. The tempos are consistently brisk and sometimes driven. The players are highly professional, if not quite at the level of, say, the Berlin Philharmonic. Zinman attempts an "authentic" sounding performance, though with modern instruments. Strings tend to be light, and winds and percussion are out front. Zinman also conducts from a new edition of the scores, reflecting recent scholarship (resulting, for example, in alternative endings to the 9th, based on different performance scores Beethoven himself used).

These performances (like other "authentic" performances) can be a revelation in comparison to the grand-romantic style of Beethoven performance that had become conventional. But these performances also can be enjoyed by anyone on their own terms; Zinman knows how to make music.

As a resident of Zurich I often have the opportunity to listen to the Tonhalle Orchestra 'live'. It is amazing to what high level of playing David Zinman has lead this ensemble. Zinmans Beethoven-cycle proves the success of this Swiss-american cooperation. I think the recordings of No 7 and 8 are unbeatable, not even Karajan reaches this level . The Ninth is excellent too, particularily what concerns the orchestra and the soloist Ruth Ziesak. Nos 1, 2, 5 and 6 are also to be considered as exemplary. On the other hand I cannot recommend No 3 - Zinmans interpretation of the funeral march is the worst I know. I like Zinmans fast tempos, but he is too fast here. Maybe his ideas about funerals are different from mine, but if you're looking for a really impressing funeral march I could recommend Klemperer's recording (Philharmonia, EMI). Apart from that, I prefer Zinmans Beethoven to all my other recordings.

I thought I knew Beethovens Symphonies inside out until I heard these staggering performances. Notwithstanding the excellent 1963 Karajan cycle (albeit with,as we now know, incorrect scores, markings and Tempos) and the several excellent "period" versions by Bruggen, and Gardiner et al, this Zinman Cyle really is as good as any other, and in terms of taughtness and control, and accuracy to the composers wishes, quite unbeaten. Anyone wishing for a set of Beethoven that is not fussy, engineered, altered, romanticised, or just plain "got at" need look no further. It would have been a revelation to have had the added bonus of original instruments and tuning, but these things aside, the set is magnificently played, and is a credit to Zinman. Klemperer and the myriad of other "romantic" conductors will seem positively dull in the shadow of this, and the Urtext scores, used in these recordings finally realises Beethoven as Beethoven, and makes us all need to bury our own preferences and rehear these works accurately played. 1000 out of 10. Buy them!

Although I still enjoy Karl Bohm's VPO "Pastorale" and still have some fond thoughts about Karajan's circa-1962 cycle (although no fond thoughts whatsoever about his two later cycles), by and large I've lost patience for the stately, well-upholstered (or, if you're not feeling charitable, paunchy) Beethoven of many conductors (particularly those of a couple of generations ago). At the same time, I'm not sure the "period instruments" timbres allow Beethoven's symphonic cycle quite enough heft, so a period-instrument approach on modern instruments seems like a good compromise. This Zinman manages very well. The whole cycle is like a clean blast of air and makes you sit up and take notice as surely as these works' first audiences must have. My only quibbles are a slight lack of oomph in the finale of the Seventh (my favorite among the Beethoven nine) and a certain stinginess in the liner notes when it comes to explaining just what it is about the Barenreiter editions that make them so revelatory.

The engineers for these Arte Nova (digital) recordings did a good job. The sound is clear and realistic, but perhaps a little muddy for my tastes. Others might find it warm sounding, anyway, it is not a big issue. Disc one, with symphonies 1 & 2 are superb in every way and I would recommend this disc (which is sold separately) for anyone wanting just the first two symphonies. You may end up thinking these two symphonies are as great as all the rest, by how wonderful the are presented. Disc two, with symphonies 3 & 4 are also excellent. I really enjoy the speed of no. 3, it makes the work more approachable for the beginner, but also very enjoyable for the long time listener. It moves along nicely and it is over before you know it. Symphony 4 is also good, but perhaps the speed on this one could have been a little slower in my opinion. I feel like I need some strong coffee to keep up with this performance. There are other versions that I own that I would play before this one, like the Walter Weller and CBO, Hanover Band or Bruno Walter's version.
Disc three, with symphonies 5 & 6 was my least favorite, neither version would be the one I would reach for. The Toscanini NBC version of Symphony no. 5 is my choice but it's the one I grew up on and so I don't necessarily recommend it, but it's good. Bohm's and Bruggen's version of symphony no. 6 is the one I usually reach for. Zinman plays this too fast and I would rather walk through the garden than run. By running you can't smell the roses or see the beauty of a flower. Disc four, with symphonies 7 & 8 is a great disc. It's worth getting for just no. 8, with speeds going into 5th gear, it's just what the symphony needs. The 7th symphony is also good, but I would reach for Gardiner's or Davis's 1961 version before this one. Though it has great moments as well. Disc five, with symphony 9 is great to own, if just for the 2nd movement. It was always the one movement of Beethoven that tended to bore me towards the later portion of the movement. But hearing the massive speed increase of the other main section of this movement, it all made perfect sense and I was never bored. I know Beethoven would be relieved to hear this BIG correction finally seeing the light of day. There are so many great versions of the 9th that I couldn't say this is the one I'd reach for, but I'd consider burning a disc that included this version's 2nd movement. Overall, it is a good box set, with lots of details you may not have heard before and the price is right.

Jonathan del Mar, son of Philharmonia Orchestra musician Norman del Mar, spent a great many years working on a "critical edition" of the Beethoven Symphonies using Beethoven's original manuscripts and comparing them, bar-by-bar and note-for-note, with the published editions. The result was the Barenreiter-Edition, first recorded here (and, to my knowledge, ONLY recorded here) by the Zurich Tonhalle Orchestra and conductor David Zinman.

First, let me say that I have only the highest respect for Zinman. He is one of my favorite conductors, and I have long felt that only the lack of a high-powered agent has kept him from being one of the world's best-known podium masters. But in these performances, using the "critical edition" as a sort of leash, there is little or no rubato at all, except for some very, very subtle modifications in the Adagios and in the Allegretto finale of the Sixth Symphony. Otherwise, this is Beethoven in VERY strict tempos, and I do mean strict: the tenor solo of the Ninth is taken at such a clip that it's difficult to imagine any other tenor, in live performance, agreeing to be subjected to it. The oft-maligned Toscanini sounds like a mere snail in comparison.

Nevertheless, there are some good things and good performances. Despite a second-movement "Andante cantabile con moto" taken at an incredibly brisk "con moto," his reading of the First Symphony is supremely satisfying, the best I have heard since Munch and Toscanini. His "Eroica" completely vindicates the Toscanini approach as every single movement is taken quicker than the Italian Maestro did it (the second movement "Marcia funebre" at least six per cent quicker), and I was surprised to hear the famous Trio taken with a repeat. His Fourth is the most satisfying reading since the 1939 Toscanini broadcast, and his Sixth has the most ingratiating "At the brook" and "Joyous merrymaking after the storm" since the equally old 1939 Toscanini-BBC Symphony recording. (Herbert von Karajan, in his last Beethoven symphony cycle, also took the Sixth at written pace but with a much stiffer, less flexible rhythm, which nullified its pastoral effects.) In addition, I heard little turns in the wind instruments in the first movement that are not evident, or at least not as cleanly played, in any other recording or performance I've ever heard.

Yet, as an overall set of the Nine, it remains a learning device for burgeoning conductors and not an edition that one will turn to time and time again for interpretive inspiration. For this I do not particularly blame Zinman, who was making a point, but he could have and should have "lived" with these new scores for a few years, modified his interpretations somewhat, and THEN have recorded his mature, seasoned reflections on them. Also, and I hate to be the one to carp about this, but WHY are the vocal soloists in practically every Ninth Symphony since Karajan's last one simply horrible?? Zinman is scarcely alone here: Haitink, Dohnanyi, Robert Shaw and anyone else of worth also have woefully inadequate singers on their Ninths. But of course, I happen to be very particular about singers anyway, so my favorite Beethoven Ninths are always defined by both the conducting and the vocal quartet, my picks being Toscanini 1939 (Novotna, Thorborg, Peerce, Moscona), Schmidt-Isserstedt 1967 (Sutherland, Horne, King, Talvela) and Karajan 1977 (Tomowa-Sintow, Baltsa, Schreier and Van Dam). I exclude 1952 Toscanini, even though his quartet was wonderful, simply because I have always been uncomfortable with his pacing and phrasing on that particular Ninth (no, it's not too fast, on the contrary, it's the slowest of all his Ninths, but the music just doesn't flow - everything sounds "vertically" phrased.)

Anyway, those are my thoughts regarding this set. I don't think you'll find finer modern (within the last thirty years) performances of the First, Third, Fourth or Sixth anywhere, but I prefer Karajan's 1977 readings of the Second, Seventh and Ninth, and his 1983 version3 of the Fifth and Eighth.

Usually, you get what you pay for. Occassionally, however, one finds an outstanding product at a low price. This is one such item. Getting David Zinman's nine Beethoven symphonies for $... is somewhat like getting a brand new Ferarri for $20,000.

Zinman follows Beethoven's original metronomic specifications, which seem to have been neglected by other modern-day conductors. He uses the New Barenreiter Edition, which is supposed to be a more "authentic" score, and the Tonhalle Orchestra Zurich performs the symphonies on modern instruments instead of period hardware. This is probably what Beethoven would have wanted, because modern instruments are so much better. In any event, the effect is overwhelming. Suddenly, many familiar passages take on a whole new meaning and seem to make more sense. I will probably donate my von Karajan CDs to charity, after I have listened to them one last time to remind myself of how much better Zinman's rendition is.