Customer Reviews

Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 3 & 8

5 star:		(7)
4 star:		(5)
3 star:		(2)
2 star:		(0)
1 star:		(0)

 

 

Little or nothing stands in the way of this sweeping account of Beethoven's Third ("Eroica") Symphony, though some might feel that in certain places during the first movement Szell is excessively driven. Some of the chords seem to be expressed with near vehemence, nevertheless, it is hard to deny that there is some measure of satisfaction with the kind of power and excitement generated by Szell, who appears to be in top form. In the ensuing funeral march that same feeling of power is wedded to an intense level of tragic and majestic expression. As in the first movement, horns assume a dominant role. At times, it seems, a kind of muted tension is present. Though different in some ways from Bohm's characterization, Szell's ceremony is nonetheless still very convincing. It displays high drama. Bohm's places greater emphasis on the sorrow of the occasion. When it comes to the scherzo, Szell has it hands down over Bohm, who just doesn't offer the former's intensity and tautness. Moreover, the Cleveland horns, once more, are commanding. Szell's forceful style advances straight to the final movement, where , for the most part, I favor Bohm's less driven and, I feel, more melodious rendition. But OH those Cleveland horns ! In the last movement, as the final sections approach, Szell uses them to impart an awesome sense of stature. The close is blazing, and the final chord is quickly bitten off. Interpretively, I prefer the sound of the more well rounded yet still emphatic final chord. In sum, though different in character from the Bohm/Vienna Philharmonic "Eroica" (see my review), I still consider the Szell/Cleveland to be among the best Beethoven Thirds.

In the Eighth, Szell again offers a concise reading, but though very well played, I find his view of this work a little too cut-and-dried. It won't do for repeated listening. By contrast, Bruno Walter's first two movements are more fluid and musical, but his third movement gets a little too "chummy" for me, and his third and fourth are a little too soft. My current choice in this symphony is the 1962 Karajan. When called for, he is able to combine the tautness and drive of Szell with the musicality of Walter. At times, his presentation seems a bit larger than life, but it has a sense of sweep that is attractive. Noteworthy also is the relaxed elegance Karajan brings to the third movement menuetto.

You just don't get any better in this music than what is recreated in these 60s sessions. The 8th is quite relaxed with super phrasing. The opening of the 8 is the finest on disc and a touch slower which gives the music a bit more breathe and fullness..

I find the 3rd to be one of the most intense...very clean winds and super playing throughout all sections...the recording isn't great but the performance is among the very best ever done...who can complain when the orchestra is this fine!!!

While a nice little symphony, you don't typically hear heated debates about what the best version of the 8th is. However, if you flip through the relevant pages of this website, you will see reviews where people line up in favor of their favorite version of the magnificent 3rd, known as the "Eroica" symphony. I have heard many wonderful versions of Eroica, but this is my desert island Eroica. The wonderful range of colors, the precision of the orchestra, the control and vision of the conductor transform Eroica from a symphony into an experience. Don't believe me? Listen to the first movement about 6 minutes into the track. The staccato chords getting progressively quieter has never been played more precisely and perfectly than on this CD. It sounds like the distant echo of a war call. That's just one example of the beauty of this performance. And even if you already own 10 other versions of Eroica, the disc is so cheap that there is no reason not to own this one. I wholeheartedly recommend this CD to anyone who loves Beethoven.

In spite of some reservations about the recording and it's sound, Szell gives a polished and intense account of Beethoven 3...surprisingly there are a few moments of large rubato in Movement One of the "Eroica" which don't normally occur in modern interpretations. The brass are very good and have a clean and clear attack...the strings on this recording are the real star. Very fine idiomatic Beethoven. However, as a reference check the Bohm Eroica with Vienna and Steinberg in Pittsburgh...Yes, Pittsburgh!

I can't compare this 3rd Symphony to other classic recordings, as I have not heard them. However I can say that it is performed seemingly flawlessly. The french horns deserve some kind of medal for their part in the 4th movement!

There are many ways to play the Eroica. Some conductors like Bernstein and Rattle play it very fast with lots of excitement. Others like it slower, emphasizing its lyrical beauty (Walter and Klemperer). Szell takes a more conservative approach. It is not really fast or slow. The tempo is just right but I find it just a tad on the dull side. The 8th, on the other hand, is just perfect. And in the scherzo, Szell has the trumpets play with tremendous brilliance. Most conductors want the trumpets to blend in with the rest of the orchestra. Not Szell, he allows them to really dominate and I personally love the effect. Good conductors play the music as written, great conductors add little touches to give the music character. Szell was truly a great conductor.

See my detailed review under the disc's previous outing, Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 3 "Eroica" & 8. Those who think this recording from 1962 of the 8th is a great version should listen to Leibowitz (Beethoven: Symphonies 6 & 8) or Scherchen (Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 6 "Pastorale" & Symphony No. 8). There they will hear the irresistible ebullience, the explosive exuberance which to me is the gist of Beethoven - and even when it is, like here, late Beethoven. Theirs is not the massive, powerful, grand and overbearing Beethoven of Szell and tradition but one that exults with joy - and Beethoven will soon compose a famous ode to it, right?

Szell's 1958 Eroica is better. Again, those who find it "hard driven" need to cleanse their ears of the Furtwängler/Klemperer/Böhm tradition and go back to the score. I won't even refer to the controversial metronome marks that Beethoven later added - so, OK, it was years after the composition, and he was deaf. And his metronome was defective? And he didn't know how to use it? You bet. Esteemable musicians, who otherwise profess the utmost and most humble allegiance to the composer's intentions, are incredibly imaginative when it comes to finding reasons for NOT doing what a composer has written if their pre-conceptions dictates that they don't. They call it the "spirit" and say that it doesn't lie in the letter. How convenient.

But just take the tempo indications : "Allegro con brio" (first movement), "Allegro vivace" (scherzo), "Allegro molto" (finale). Mind you: NOT "allegro ma non troppo", or "allegro moderato", or "moderato". How faster can you get? What should Beethoven have written, if he had wanted these movements to be played really fast (like his metronome marks indicate): "Allegro precipitoso possible"?

But that's how tradition goes: we have such an ingrained knowledge of how it SHOULD sound, that we don't even look at the scores anymore (or when we do, invent the most imaginative excuses NOT to observe them). We don't realize that a certain tradition is exactly like the patina of those beautiful Michelangelo frescoes in the Sistine Chapel in Rome: just accumulated dirt, the conservators will tell you. Take off the dirt, what comes out: colors that seem incredibly crude and gaudy - but, pace the indignant and horrified traditionalists, that's exactly how the artist wanted them.

So, if anything, Szell's Eroica is not hard-driven ENOUGH. That's true especially of the first movement. While the tempo is suitably brisk, what Szell is missing and that Toscanini (Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 1 & 3), Bernstein in New York (Symphony 3 " Eroica "), Scherchen (see above) and Leibowitz (Symphonies No. 1 & 3) all have is a muscularity of accents, a power and intensity of the brass utterances. With them, Beethoven is ebullient, explosive, teeming with energy and excitement. With Szell, he is more civilized - and I am tempted to say: less genuinely Beethovenian. Szell takes the funeral march at a solid, moderate tempo (very close in fact to Toscanini's and Bernstein's) but his reading stands out by the crispness of articulation of the bass and the muscularity of accents, although its less biting and glaring brass fail to invest it with as much high-octane drama as Toscanini's. On the other hand he takes the scherzo faster than Beethoven's metronome and consequently imparts it an uplifting ebullience. He launches in the finale with superb turbulence and his theme and variations develop with fine tautness and muscularity and a fire again reminiscent of Toscanini, although both are significantly slower than Beethoven's metronome here and, like everybody else before Norrington, Szell takes the traditional view (not to say that it isn't convincing in its own right) of the "poco andante" section starting at 6:18 - eg slow, developing to a majestic and grandiose climax. His coda is exhilaratingly boisterous.

Ultimately, this is a Beethoven for those who don't like their Beethoven too radical - either way: Klemperer/Furtwängler or Scherchen/Norrington (and be aware that I DON'T find Toscanini here nearly as radical as his reputation). I am one to think that Beethoven not too radical isn't entirely Beethoven. Still Szell's Eroica would have been a truly excellent one had he given a little more snap to the accents in the first movement. Excellent sonics.

...a 3rd that's played just right - as this one is. Absolutely fine, fine art!
(Also, David Zinman's CDs of all 9 symphonies are wonderful. And his 3rd, of course. A bargain that really sounds damn good all through. Hard to believe he brought it off.)

A tough and relatively fast 3. I agree comparable with Toscanini with sound infinitely better. Tempi crucial in this work and should be brisk. Even in the second movement the momentum must not be lost (c.f. Klemperer's two plodding but perversely popular EMI versions). Sound obviously not up to modern standards but still good and not impairing the enjoyment at all. Finale is extremely exciting. First movement also brisk ( thankfully). Well played as a whole. Overall just about ideal. I think this is a 1950,s recording (please forgive me if this is inaccurate). If so I have also 50's recordings from Kleiber (Decca) Furtwangler (EMI) Toscanini (RCA) and Klemperer (EMI mono and stereo) and I rate Szell just above the Kleiber overall though could recommend either. Interpretatively Toscanini is on a par with Szell but the sound is tragically quite poor with intrusive and very rude coughing at crucial moments. Furtwangler is not bad and both Klemperers are well played with decent sound but tempi so slow as to remove much excitement. Still that is entirely typical of the most overrated conductor of Beethoven of which I am aware and I would not recommend either of his versions.I suppose Szell could also be compared to modern version from Zinman (Arte Nova) but I prefer Szell.

Beethoven and Szell. Recordings of champions. By far the best interpretations of most of Beethoven's symphonies I've heard, and I've heard quite a few. Unlike Karajan's Beethoven, Szell puts some sting into his interpretations, particularly in the Eroica where you have those dissonant trumpets about halfway in the first movement. And all the parts come through very clearly. Great ensemble playing by the Cleveland Orchestra under Szell. Like others, these recordings aren't perfect, and I suppose if I want a perfect recording, I would have to find an orchestra to direct and make my own set, but the faults in these recordings are things I can easily overlook. The second movement of the Seventh is a little too quick for my taste, some of the lyrical sections in all the symphonies sound a bit too choppy, and Szell's interpretation of the Eighth sounds a little constipated and doesn't seem to quite capture the humor and playfulness in Beethoven's "unbuttoned" state. But overall, the best Beethoven I've ever heard. My favorites from this set? The Second, the Eroica (Third), and the Ninth. And very tight, clean playing in the Coriolan Overture. This is a tough piece to play without sounding a little sloppy, but Szell manages to pull it off quiet well, and he does it without sacrificing the intensity of the piece.