Customer Reviews

Is Belief in God Good, Bad or Irrelevant?: A Professor and a Punk Rocker Discuss Science, Religion, Naturalism & Christianity

5 star:		(16)
4 star:		(10)
3 star:		(3)
2 star:		(0)
1 star:		(1)

 

 

What do you get when put a conservative university professor who happens to be a Christian in the same room with a punk rocker who happens to be an atheist? Trouble, you would expect.

Well the two may not have shared the same room, but thy have shared in a lot of correspondence, debating and discussing their worldviews. And trouble was not the outcome, but a spirited, intelligent and no-holds-barred exchange of ideas and beliefs.

Preston Jones, a history professor and committed Christian, had long enjoyed the music of Bad Religion, especially its lyrics. He eventually wrote to the band's front man and song writer, Greg Graffin. A lively correspondence ensued, and that exchange is the subject of this book.

The letters written by these two are frank, forthright and forceful. Their discussions are lively and vigorous, sometimes heated but always irenic. The respectful debate encountered here covers a wide range of topics, music included.

Graffin is not your run of the mill punk rocker. He has written a PhD in evolutionary biology, and his lyrics drip with deep reflections and careful thoughts. They express, of course, the mind of a sceptic. Graffin does not believe in God, and he is willing to face a world without God head on, with all that entails.

Yet despite his commitment to philosophical naturalism and his unbridled faith in science, he has questions, he is searching, and he is aware of his own limits. His songs are filled with thoughts about religion, life, meaning and purpose.

Jones, on the other hand, is a believer who offers many insights and explanations from his own Christian faith, but can appeal to other sources as well. Thus they discuss not just biblical matters, but literature, music, science, art and many other topics. The two square off on numerous hot potato issues, such as the problem of suffering, the meaning of personhood, the theory of evolution, and the search for significance. No topic is too sacred to cover, and no avenue is too off limits to explore.

This informed, entertaining and valuable collection of letters shows that people from two quite differing worldviews can still treat each other with respect as they passionately share their own beliefs and challenge those of the other person.

Because this book is published by a Christian publisher, and the editor is a Chrisian, it of course takes on an apologetic approach. But it is not preachy nor moralistic. It simply lays out the honest thoughts of two deep and committed thinkers. Jones includes study questions, quotations and other bits of information throughout the book to help the reader go further with these discussions.

By the end of the book Graffin has not yet "seen the light" but he shows an interest in, an appreciation of, the Christian worldview, and the case Jones seeks to make for it.

And Jones sees in Graffin an intelligent and thoughtful proponent of atheism. The fact that Graffin is willing to dig deep in his reflections and probe thoroughly the big questions of life makes him superior to many believers with their easy believe-ism and shallow, uninformed faith. Indeed, Jones says he is more "at ease with thoughtful atheists than with Christians" who refuse to acknowledge the many challenges and mysteries of life.

At least Graffin is asking the right questions - and the hard, probing questions. Too many believers settle for a simplistic faith that does not grapple with the serious issues of life, be it suffering, doubt or mystery.

Thus Jones is more than happy to enter the intellectual arena with Graffin, and exchange blows. Iron sharpen iron, and believers need the challenge of non-believers to keep them on their theological toes and to keep themselves spiritually fresh and focused.

Many people - believers and nonbelievers alike - are simply not thinking about, and agonising over, the difficult questions of life. But many are. And it is to this later group that a book like this has so much to offer.

Non-believers will find here a case for Christianity that is free of clichés and biblical proof-texting, and one that is based one serious reflection, personal struggle, and solid answers. And believers will find here the thoughts, questions and feelings that many nonbelievers are grappling with. This will challenge them to take their faith more seriously, and remind them that honest questions deserve honest answers.

It is hoped that by reading this book many more such dialogues will begin. We have a lot to learn from each other, and really hearing what people are saying - on both sides of the debate - is an important means by which believers can share their faith and seekers can get some welcome feedback. Let the debate continue.

It is rare to find a such balanced and informed discussion regarding religion. The participants pose thier arguments in a friendly manner, but they are both clearly well studied in their respective fields. I'm a Bad Religion fan, and thus am quite familiar with Greg Graffin's opinions. I find Preston Jones quite impressive, he's clearly a devout Christian, but not fundimentalist, and is refreshingly accepting of other ideas. This conversation would have been very different - if not impossible - if it were between Graffin and oh, say, Pat Robertson. What makes this book so engaging is the fact that both men were able to HEAR what the other was saying, then give an informed response without resorting to the name-calling and finger-pointing so prevalent on the cable news networks. This is the kind of debate this country needs.
I read this book at the same time as reading Graffin's PhD thesis, and together they've underscored the fact that my personal beliefs are much more in line with Graffin's than with Jones's. But, while I don't always understand Jones's opinions, I greatly respect him as a scholar and educator.

Really enjoyed reading this. I'm a big Bad Religion fan, and share many of the views expressed by Dr. Graffin. Many of the people in my life are very hardcore Christians and we frequently agree to disagree.

As both Graffin and Jones stated, "score keeping" misses the point of this book. It's fun to be a fly on the wall listening to two very intelligent men debate the topics. Again, as they both said some will declare a winner to the debate. If that makes 'em happy...so be it. Looking past winners and losers though, most will have an enlightening look at "the other side" of many issues that most are afraid to discuss.

In the end, Preston Jones didn't change my mind. I still believe what I believe. But I always enjoy stimulating thought from a different perspective.

Definately recommended for those with an open mind!

The premise of the book is a terrific idea: an informal, ongoing exchange between someone holding a conservative Christian worldview and someone holding an atheistic, naturalistic worldview. Unfortunately, the end result is disappointing and leaves the reader with a sense of what *might* have happened rather than what *did.*

I will agree that both authors are to be lauded for their courtesy, patience and willingness to talk to each other - as well as share the conversations with us. I also agree that more open-ended dialogues like this would benefit many groups that hold opposing worldviews.

However, the dialogue as presented here seemed entirely one-sided. As noted, Graffin's PhD in evolutionary science was earned; he knows what he's talking about. Jones, much to my frustration, knew almost nothing about evolutionary science and almost as little about how science works overall. Jones presented many evangelical stereotypes and out-dated arguments and positions; Graffin was far more patient than I would have been (and I count myself as a Christian). Jones also doesn't seem spurred to do any research or follow up thinking once Graffin replies, which robs the reader of some potentially great critical analysis of both sides' positions.

Indeed, Jones comes off almost as an adoring teenage fan rather than an adult professor of history. Only when the topic lands squarely in Jones' bailiwick does his text grow some heft - and that is only for a few pages at most. Jones' grasp of Christian theology seems both basic and, well, infantile; he fails to seriously challenge Graffin on any points, instead generally taking a drubbing.

Other reviewers are quite correct in saying this is *not* a debate; however, the lack of substantial arguments, ideas, or displays of knowledge from Jones were, for me, fairly discouraging. Graffin shows an impressive ability to articulate and support his ideas, while Jones relies on stale and one dimensional standard "arguments" or rhetorical statements.

While this really has nothing to do with the quality of the content, Graffin oddly comes off as awkwardly detatched; the tone of most of his emails seems fairly distant or impersonal. Jones' notes, on the other hand, convey warmth and friendliness. If the quality of the exchange wasn't so one-sided, this contrast might not be as apparent or off-putting, but as the book is, Graffin sometimes comes across in print as bored or exasperated by Jones' comments and mistakes.

Since the book is *not* a debate, it just sort of ends...neither participant seems changed or challenged by it, and the reader doesn't get the sense that the exchange made any real impact on the writers.

Unsatisfying and lopsided; I recommend searching for other books based around formal debates for better results.

This is an odd book. It is a series of emails between a professor of church history and a punk rocker who embraces naturalism. As an apologetic, this book doesn't come down on either side. Greg (from the group Bad Religion) gives good arguments for adopting the naturalistic worldview, and he corrects many of Preston's misconceptions. Preston gives good arguments for the Christian worldview, and he also corrects many of Greg's assumptions.

But the book ends without much of a solution. Neither one is converted to the other worldview. Nothing has changed by the end of the book, except that they have enjoyed some good intellectual stimulation through their exchange.

Intervarsity Press put out this book last year, so I'm assuming that the publishers at IVP thought that Preston clearly comes out better than Greg in the emails. That's not necessarily the case, though. Greg has some strong arguments, and Preston doesn't answer all the tough questions. Unfortunately, some of the hard questions that Preston does answer lean in the direction of open theism and not historic Christianity.

This book is interesting. It's neat to see the correspondence between these two men. But I think a blog would've been a better place for these letters to be published. It's as if the publishers just copied and pasted the emails into a new document, changed the fonts, and then sent it to the print shop. I'll admit that there are some good portions of the book. But to get to them, you have to wade through the small talk about Greg being "under the weather," Preston's favorite Bad Religion CDs, and the niceties that fit well into emails and letters, but should never have made it to the final draft of a book.

This is a worthwhile book, if for no other reason than that it serves as a reminder that there are Christians, like Preston Jones, who need not be dismissed out of hand. Jones says up front that as one reads this book, the reaction might be to come up with better "arguments" for whatever side one is on. This is definitely the case--but that's part of the appeal. This is not a book to spoon-feed answers, but to raise questions. Having said that, I wish that Graffin--who actually surprised me by being more eloquent than I expected--had a little more philosophical sophistication. Some of what Graffin wrote reminded me of the quip, "If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." Graffin's main (if not exactly only) tool is science, and as crucial as science is, there are questions of meaning and morality that science as such is ill-equipped to address. But perhaps a more important point is that these issues DO have highly satisfactory atheistic (or "naturalistic," as the book would probably have it) responses. Graffin struggles a little to define and defend his view of meaning, while Jones gets to fall back on the simple "off the rack" teleology of the Bible. If Graffin were more familiar with books such as "The Problem of the Soul," and "Value and Virtue in a Godless Universe," his responses would have been crisper and more cogent. And I think one of the snappiest responses to a suggestion that in order for meaning to come from God, is that there would have to be a god...and since there isn't, for that reason alone it is simply not possible to derive meaning theistically. One last point: Graffin got cornered a little by the issue of whether religion (and especially the Catholic Church--the "Sinister Rouge" of the Bad Religion song) is responsible for more evil and suffering than anything else. I know whenever a fellow atheist trots out something like this, she's going to be slapped back with questions about the pogroms of Stalin and other secularists. The real distinction, I wish Graffin would have said, is not between religion and atheism. It's between a worldview that starts with only necessary assumptions, and then adds to those assumptions only on the basis of demonstrated fact; and a worldview that makes many assumptions that simply cannot be challenged. Marxism is, in this regard, very like religion. The evidence for that is what happened with Soviet scientist Lysenko, who through application of a "Marxist" form of biology helped produce starvation. It is true, I might have said in Graffin's shoes, that there are some questions that science might never answer, but it is not true of science that there are answers that may never be questioned. That is the real difference between what Graffin was trying to advocate for and dogmas of all stripes.

This book is published by a Christian publisher, and I would urge atheists who are interested in reading it but not thrilled about supporting what amounts to a propagandistic ministry to see if "Is Belief in God..." is available from a library.

If only such life-affirming exchanges as these were commonplace! Preston Jones is to be commended, because he started the exchange and kept it going at an early stage. More than the content of the ideas debated here, Jones has given all Christians in the academic world an awesome model of Christian confidence paired with Christian humility.

There is more to the Christian life than winning debates. There is more to dialogue than debate. And there is more to dialogue with unbelievers than ideas and ideologies. There is also life, and life lived well. When we learn to live in joyful dialogue with those who may be in danger for their very souls, we are beginning to taste the first fruits of heaven, and we are extending the aroma of heaven to those who are perishing.

Is Belief in God ... is therefore to be recommended to all college students looking to bring their brains and faith alike to all the parties they attend.

For me this was the literary version of the great movie `Dogma'. By that I mean that for those of us with questions about and major issues with God and organized religion it was an excellent source of information and entertainment. Both of the men involved make you think and both make excellent points for their beliefs. Although I found myself agreeing with Mr. Graffin a great deal more often than Mr. Jones, I found them both extremely intelligent and open minded. A great read for those with absolute faith and those with no faith.

Belief in God (and in absolutes) is being challenged today and the dialogue presented in this engaging book is a refreshing approach to the controversy. What we have here is a cordial dialogue between two men with mutual respect who have reason to disagree. This conversation answers to some degree the questions: "How does the other side think? How do they approach their position?" Although a confirmed theist and Christian, I found myself at times agreeing with Greg and disagreeing with Preston. I only wish most conversations about God were so cordial.

I won't write a long review like some of the others. In brief, the book is amazing. I have every few pages dog-eared and bookmarked because of the wealth of authors and sources both Jones and Graffin site. The book really served as a means to open my eyes to diverse authors and ideas; I can't wait to learn more. It is an easy read in terms of the casual email format, although the concepts are sometimes heavy and I re-read some passages for clarity. Overall, I would definitely recommend the book to anyone with questions about Christianity, Naturalism, and humanity in general.