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Beyond the End Times: The Rest of the Greatest Story Ever Told

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Modern day prophecy prognosticators have declared that the end is upon us and that the return of Jesus is near. Because of their faulty futurist paradigm it has lead to many embarrasing predictions and failed calculations regarding the rapture theory, the antichrist and so on. Though it makes for some great science fiction and monumental book marketing stratagem, the true Berean will mine the scriptures and test all things. Such is the case with Mr. Noe's book 'Beyond the End Times'. As a conservative evangelical scholar he brings back a reformist view with much added new light into the study of eschatology.The book is very easy to read while digging deep into the scriptures. He brings understanding to many prophetic themes such as the end of the age, the return of Christ, Daniel's 70 weeks and much more. By searching the original languages, the historical setting, and bringing the reader to an understanding of 1st Century thought, he brings clear and convincing proof of the past fulfillment of prophecy. This book will silence the skeptics, awaken the sleeping christian and arm the body of christ to get off it's duff and quit waiting for the giant ejector button in the sky to rocket them skyward.It's this kind of escapist theology that has caused the impotence of the church in our day. 'Beyond the End times' comes to grips with where we are at right now and the responsibility to put our hand to the plow instead of keeping our head in the sand.It forthrightly deals with many passages of scriptures that the church has shied away from for many years. The basis of the book is the Olivet discourse.Have you ever wondered about this passage in scripture? After Jesus goes into detail about the tribulation He says this,"Truly I say to YOU(that's the people that he was talking to back then, since we hadn't been born yet), THIS generation (not the next one or the next one or the one after that and so on...)will NOT (and I think no means no)pass away until ALL these things(that's everything Jesus just talked about from Mat.24:2-33)take place. This message was so clear that their is not one single new testament writer who does not convey this to the early church as that hope and promise of Christ's return taking place in their lifetime. This book will challenge your thinking and reform your doctrinal premise. Though it strikes at the heart of so much ingrained futurist teaching it does so with integrity,hermenuetical skill and clarity. If you want to be enriched and your faith to grow this book is for you. Otherwise, you can always feed your mind with the latest christian fiction and pretend that your getting a good dose of sound theology.But you will NEVER know the glory and wonder of Christ's return as found through sound biblical exegesis and expounded so brilliantly in 'Beyond the End Times'.

John did a wonderful job explaining how the "time of the end" was marked by the extinction of the temple worship and animal sacrifices. He also used applicable Bible references to support his position. This book really made me sit back and think about the personal ministry of Jesus Christ. More people need to do that :)

Wow, this book really made me think! I have always held a futuristic belief in bible prophecy. For those new to eschatology, the futurists believe that the major bible prophecies concerning Christ's return, the resurrection, new heaven and earth, and the eternal judgement of all will be in the future--sometime after the rapture and Great Tribulation. Full preterists believe that all of these were fulfilled in 70 AD when the temple and city of Jerusalem were destroyed. Partial preterists believe some of these things were fufilled back then and the rest will be in the future. Noe is a full preterist--and he really got me thinking.

I still don't believe that the 2nd coming, resurrection, and judgement were fufilled in AD 70, but I am really starting to think upon the possibility that the Great Tribulation was in the past and that the rapture is actually the future second coming of Christ. In other words, I am leaning towards partial preterism as a result of this book. Noe admits that he is not a bible "scholar", but he still makes a very compelling argument for most of the book, enough to get one seriously looking at Scripture and rethinking some of the "last days" doctrine that is so popular now. Noe has researched most his book well and presents it in a very easy to follow, believable fashion. I heartily recommend this book as fuel for thought.

Before even hearing of preterism, I was frustrated by New Testament references to the end times and last days in a context which clearly portrays the last days and end times as either imminent or already happening. I was frustrated because it didn't square with what I had been taught - premillenialism/futurism, to put a label on it - and that bothered me.

The first rule of hermaneutics is to consider context and original audience. Why were these New Testatment people being instructed explicitly and practically regarding these end times things, if it was all to happen in the distant future - well beyond their lifetimes, as would be clear from the vantage point of the 21st Century futurist view?

Just try reading the NT sometime, imagining that when someone is talking about the end times, they mean imminent. And see if perhaps, the fall of Jerusalem in that 1st Century might just explain what they were talking about. In some cases there is NO QUESTION. Did this event signal the cataclysmic end of the old covenant, the end of that Age, and the ushering in of the new? Noe's book is worth an objective read. It's not absurd.

Frankly, I don't know that it matters that much - probably falls into a non-essential category of theology. Preterists still believe we're saved by grace only, through faith in the blood of Christ, who died for our sins. And that our destiny includes eternity with our Saviour.

Mr. Noe has done a great job of forcing people to rethink much of what most people have been spoon fed about eschatology. It was in reading this book that I had to find out much of what was to become of my own views on the subject. I had a hard time accepting the idea that the Second Coming was a past event. (An objection that I still maintain). I had seen that in the writings of "Preterist" authors, they quote Dr. R.C. Sproul in support of their views. And responding to his so-called "inconsistencies". I have great respect for Dr. R.C. Sproul, which forced me to get a hold of his views on the subject. I, like Dr. Sproul have not made up my mind on all elements of the "Preterist" view. Those who hold to the views that Dr. Sproul does on this issue (like myself) are usually called "Partial-Preterist". A title that I think is appropriate.
This task caused me to reevaluate and alter many of my own views in the process. In doing so I found a number of things that Mr. Noe and other "Preterists" are forced to do in order to affirm their view. They are forced to deny fundamentally essential doctrines of of the gospel of Christ. I have no objection to the understanding that Christ came in judgement upon Israel in the first century. I also have no problem believing that they were living in the last days. That the end of the age was the "age of the Jews" which I believe Scripture has in view here. It is what is being denied by these men that troubles me, and gives me great concern.
Because of lack of space I will only concern my self with the atonement. Because of the problem of the resurrection that has been thrown at Mr. Noe. He has had to "spiritualise" the resurrection, taking away it's physicality. So when the Bible says that the day will come when those in the graves will hear the voice of Christ and rise from the dead. (John 5:28) He has done so by affirming that since before Christ finished His work of atonement no one could enter heaven and had to go to the "Hadean realm" a.k.a. the "bossom of Abraham". (Luke 16:22-23) That no one could enter heaven (with the exception of the 'first fruits of the resurrection' "Preterists" are not agreed on this point however), because without the Second Coming the atonement is incomplete. It is the assertion of all "Preterists" that deny the "physical" resurrection, i.e. the resurrection of the "flesh". (Which makes them "Docetic" in their view of the resurrection, i.e. "Docetic Preterists").
Mr. Noe says the following words,
"But just as the atonement ritual of the Old Covenant
was never considered complete with only the slaying of
the sacrifice, neither was Jesus' atonement work
finished at the cross, or even when He entered into the
true Holy of Holies...In order for Jesus to perfectly
fullfill the final, inseparable, and essential act of
atonement: to appear "a second time" to show that his
sacrifice had been accepted, and to fulfill the role of
both goats-one dead, one alive."
("Beyond The End Times P. 192)
This denial is based upon a misinterpretation of Hebrews 9:28 where Jesus is said to return "for salvation". The problem is that Mr. Noe assumes that the Bible is reffering to the atonement in this verse. The word "atonement" however means reconciliation with reference to the payment for sin. The passage says that Christ returns "without reference to sin". If Christ's "Second Advent" is "without reference to sin", then it cannot be to finish the atonement. In fact the Bible teaches that Christ had allready "canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross". (Col. 2:14) Mr. Noe doesn't seem to understand the present reality of the reconciliation that Paul believed he had while he was alive. (Roman 5:1) (Though it is true that the chapter is talking about the atonement, the words "without reference to sin" takes the passage to a much more glorious point, the glory of Christ).
He also does not look at the fact that just because Christ comes for salvation. Doesn't mean that it must be to "finish" the atonement. Romans 8:29-30, tells us the elements of salvation entail not only the atonement (which is in reference to our justification) but also glorification. Which in context is in reference to the resurrection from the dead. That is to say that the resurrection from the dead of all believers are "for salvation". (Though the atonement and the resurrection cannot be seperated from eachother with reference to salvation. They must be distinguished from eachother, not confused with one another). It is not refering to the atonement, hence Mr. Noe is setting up a false dillema. He is trying to tell us that if Christ has not returned, then the atonement is not finished.
This is wrong and should lovingly and prayerfully be rebuked.

Response to the reader below:

Clearly, the reader below hasn't read the book. He fails to realize that in 1 Peter 1:20 tells us clearly that Peter himself believed he was living in the 'last time'. Additionally, even the author of Hebrews believes he was living in 'last days' (Hebrews 1:2). Even John believed it was the 'last hour' (1 John 2:18). Furthermore, John 16:13 tells us that the Holy Spirit would guide the disciples in all truth. Now if they weren't living the end times, then we know something interesting: The Bible made a HUGE mistake. What do I mean?

This means that Christians are totally deceived of their beliefs, since Jesus didn't come within the disciples generation (Matthew 24:34), and so salvation isn't available to anyone since Christ was to appear a 2nd time to bring salvation (Hebrews 9:28, 1 Peter 1:5). Therefore we can conclude a few things:

1) Jesus Christ was not God, because His prophecies didn't come true 2) Redemption is still unfinished today (1 Peter 1:5, Hebrews 9:28) 3) The disciples were wrong about when Jesus would come (1 Peter 4:7, 1 John 2:18) 4) THEREFORE, The Bible is fallible for the simple reason that the parousia of Christ never took place as the New Testament expected

As a result, we have many harsh skeptics/liberals that are tearing apart Christianity to the point where Jesus is considered a lunatic. Thus, to believe in a future 2nd coming implies that all who believe in it are COMPLETELY deceived. In fact Christianity is a false religion and cannot be trusted with these kinds of inconsistencies-these are the harsh claims of non-Christians.

As much as I once longed for a future coming of Christ, I realize how it cannot stand up to scrutiny. The ONLY solution to Jesus having been expected by his disciples to come in their own time is to accept the fact that He came just as he did.

The biggest issue isn't about the sun, moon, stars, heaven/earth passing away, and all other 'not so easy' to understand things, but rather Jesus came or he didn't. If he didn't, then something's wrong, cuz his disciples must've been insane (yet we know the Holy Spirit came in Acts 2:4) and apparently it guided them in all truth (John 16:13).

As for the passing of the heaven and earth, this page explains the reader's objection with a correct hermeneutical understanding:

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/curtis-david_p_05.html

I'm sure you're probably reading this and asking yourself, "If this is true, then where's my hope?" Unfortunately those who long for a future coming Christ are hoping to be raptured away from this world, as if this world will be utterly obliterated. Is this true? Eclessiastes 1:4, Psalm 78:69, Psalm 104:5, Psalm 89:36-37 and many other passages all confirm an unending world with Christ reigning on earth. Is the rapture really the blessed hope? I think this page gives a great understanding of the blessed hope:

http://notdeceived.net/blessed_hope.htm

Sadly, the reader below (who says, "Just Say 'No' to Noe") is very quick to accuse John Noe of teaching a false doctrine. Yet this doctrine has it's roots from the first century. One's beliefs in the end times has ABSOLUTELY no bearing on one's salvation, yet this brother (or sister) is apparently calling John Noe a heretic. It surely doesn't sound loving to say such things to other believers. This makes me wonder if he can truly love John Noe as a brother. 1 John 4:20 says, "If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen."

And considering this view is one of 6 major views of the end times, whether it's right or not, brother and sisters should not go around tearing apart fellow Christians. We as Christians, are called to live for Christ. So why should one's view of eschatology matter? Apparently the reader below expressed his 'love' by considering Noe's beliefs a heresy. Brothers and sister, is this in anyway to treat fellow believers?

I have studied the end times off and on now for almost 3 years. It started with a study on Revelation at my church. I read my bible more than ever while studying Revelation because in order to understand Rev., you simply have to! During my own personal study, something about the "Left Behind" theory just didn't seem to fit scripturally, even though I was raised to believe it. I delved deeper in scripture and read books on different end times "theories" and beliefs. I kept comparing scripture to scripture and would come up with contradictions with my old beliefs. I prayed that God would lead me to the truth. This view point (preterist) makes more logical sense and is more in line with the scriptures than anything else I have read. In the last chapter of Revelation Jesus told John 3 times "I am coming soon". Jesus himself told his disciples that all "this" (Matt 24) would be fulfilled during "this generation". Many have tried to spiritualize that statement, yet make others literal. Since there are so many instances where the disciples and Jesus said that the time was "soon" it makes perfect sense to take these "time stamps" literal.

In Chapter 21 the New Jerusalem is described: "the old order of things is passed away", "I am making everything new", we get to drink from the "spring of the water of life", there is no longer any sea (no separation from God),"now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them". I believe most Christians would believe that the old order of things has already passed away and that we are already drinking from the water of life,we do not have a separation from God and that He dwells with us NOW. The New Jerusalem is present! We don't have to wait...we are living it as Christians. Yes, He also said there would be no tears/pain, but pain can also mean anguish and He was talking to believers THEN. Their anguish and tears were wiped away by the Holy Spirit.

Also, while Daniel was told to "close up" his prophesies concerning end times, John was told NOT to seal his up because "the time is near". Daniel's prophies came totally true to the days he layed out if you believe the preterist view.

I have found this view to be lacking in the inconsistencies that the other views seem to have. I have also found this view point reminds me of the tremendous gift (the Holy Spirit) that I have as a believer and the power He can give. I need to live my life for Christ now and make a difference for him now and not wait to be lifted out and hoping for an escape.

I would highly recommend this book to every Christian believer who has studied and feels that the scripture isn't "matching up" to what they currently believe. This book lines up scripture and compares scripture to scripture so that you can see the Bible is a book of truth and common sense.

This book by John Noe develops some strange doctrines. One of his main arguments is that this world on which we live will never end. The earth will last for all eternity.

He also teaches that the resurrection of believers promised in the Bible is a current spiritual resurrection. No one will ever be physically resurrected.

For a helpful critique of the false doctrines in this book and in this Hyper-preterist movement, see Keith Mathison, "When Shall These Things Be?"

An old adage warns: "Never judge a book by the cover." This book has a very nice, computer graphics cover. Unfortunately, the covers are too far apart: too many pages are wasted in presenting a rambling, unorthodox position.

Noe is not a theologian, as the Foreword in the book states and as his argument proves. He is another in the breed of "prophecy experts" who is untrained in theology and exegesis, and is proud of it.

His chapter three captures the main point of the book. That chapter is titled: "Why the World Will Never End." It is based on a serious misreading of various texts. I imagine with his approach to Scripture he thinks the sun revolves around the earth, the earth has four corners, and more. These are statements based on appearance from the human perspective; they are not statements of actual fact about reality. The Bible can speak of the world with such language as easily as meteriologists can tell us what time the sun will "rise" tomorrow (even though the sun does not "rise," but the earth "revolves").

Noe misses the meaning of his favorite texts as badly as Mormons miss the meaning of Scriptures that speak of "the eyes of the Lord are in every place," "the arm of the Lord is not shortened that it cannot save," and more. Mormon interpretive methodology leads them to declare that God has a body like we do. Noe's interpretive method makes the same sort of mistakes on another set of verses.

This is THE most serious problem with Noe's writing: As untrained in biblical languages and unschooled in formal theology and unread in ecclesiastical history, he approaches Scripture in a simplistic, confusing fashion.

If you want a better work on eschatology, I would recommend either Gary DeMar, "Last Day's Madness" or Darrell Bock, "Three Views of the Millennium and Beyond." The last mentioned book looks beyond the end of history (yes, Virginia, there is an end to history) to the eternal order.

Wow! Here we go again: another theological movement being steered by untrained Bible enthusiasts. In the Preface it is noted that Noe (a motivational speaker by training) has never attended a theological seminary to study theology, biblical languages, church history, and so forth. And his book proves it!

His main point in this book is to claim that ALL Bible prophecy was fulfilled in the first century and that the earth will last forever. He even recommends a new holiday to celebrate the Second Coming of Christ -- which in his view occurred in the first century: Parousia Day. Too bad the church has missed this opportunity for 2000 years.

This new movement is quite a worrisome innovation. For more information, I recommend seeing Mathison's "When Shall These Things Be?" which is also available from Amazon.com

To Noe I say: Thanks. But no thanks. Come back with your innovative ideas AFTER you have taken some theological training.