Customer Reviews

Beyond the Firmament: Understanding Science and the Theology of Creation

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How different would Christian evangelism be if all of the Young Earth Creationists (YECs) gradually folded their tents and gave up their sincere but misguided fight that is so detrimental to Christian evangelism, especially toward the scientific community. Since YECs believe that the Bible trumps science every time, no argument from science is ever going to make this happen. This book, written by an evangelical Christian layman for conservative evangelical Christian adherents of Young Earth Creationism, Old Earth Creationism (OEC) and Intelligent Design, takes a giant step toward achieving the above goal.

Gordon J. Glover maintains that YECs and OECs are equally wrong in their approach to interpreting Genesis 1 & 2 (and other references to creation in the Bible). His main theme is that Genesis 1 & 2 are not scientific accounts of the origin of the universe and that both YECs and OECs err in trying to interpret it that way. He makes a very good case from the Bible itself that God accommodated his message to what the Israelites of that time could understand, and that God's message was theological, not scientific.

This approach is not new. It has been well developed in a number of commentaries on Genesis, including but not limited to John H. Walton's "The NIV Application Commentary-Genesis," C. John Collins' "Genesis 1-4," and Henri Blocher's "In the Beginning." What is new here is a discussion of the issues in a form much more accessable to Christian laymen. The author is neither a scientist nor a theologian, and, while his writing style is a bit flippant at times, he makes his points well, forcefully and understandably. He also acknowledges that it is going to take a lot of time for YECs to make the transition to a different way of understanding God's message in Genesis.

The author describes his reluctant acceptance of evolution as just another natural process through which God has been operating in his providental governance of the universe. In that vein, he expresses his dislike of the term "theistic evolution" as not making any more sense than "theistic meteorology." He cites a number of clearly stated, understandable reasons why biological evolution is currently the most reasonable explanation of the facts that scientists are observing in nature.

The author goes on to very clearly demonstrate that "creation science" is not science, that science is not the enemy of Christianity, and that science does not lie. He summarizes his position on "creation science" in four bullet points on page 105 as follows:
(1) Creaton science removes the Bible out from under the protection of the ancient Near-Eastern worldview - where truth did not always have to be expressed in scientific terms, and subjects it to the rigors of the modern materialists' worldview - which requires truth to always be precisely communicated in scientific terms.
(2) Creation science marginalizes the timeless theological realities of the creation story by exposing the timely physical details to scientific ridicule.
(3) Creation science hands the secular world a Biblical straw-man that can be easily torn down, along with the entire Christian faith.
(4) Since all scientific propositions are subject to falsification, creation science puts the Lord our God to the test!

I only wish that there were some way that Young Earth Creationists (and a few Old Earth Creationists) could be exposed to this book. I highly recommend it.

Reading Beyond the Firmament challenged me to think more deeply about how I view science in light of my faith. It challenged me to think more deeply than I ever have before about the things of creation and what might science have to say in regard to the details of how it came about. It challenged my mind and enlarged my view of God as the Creator. While I can not say that I agree with everything Gordon Glover agrees with, I can say that he opened my eyes to possiblities I might not have before considered. I love that he constantly reminds us throughout the book that "science is tentative" - it is always changing and so therefore so is man's interpretation of the data. I loved Glover's voice throughout the book - it was humble, and intelligent. His faith is evident and steadfast, and his openness to his own continuing education is inspiring. He really balances well science and theology and shows how they are not meant to be combatants.

"Why another book on science and faith?" Gordon Glover poses the question himself in the preface of Beyond the Firmament, his first book, released earlier this month by Watertree Press. While Glover offers his owns reasons, I would like to add a few of my own.

The motto of the publisher Watertree Press (also new) is Read. Think. Grow. With this book, their first release, readers will likely do all three. Glover challenges us to step outside our comfortable paradigms and think about issues like the big bang and evolution in new and fresh ways. He takes the reader on a journey of discovery to answer such questions as: What do we know, and how do we know it? What can the Bible tell us about nature? What can nature tell us about itself? What about evolution?

Glover's approach to this subject matter is unique. He does not write from the perspective of a trained scientist. This, I believe, is to his advantage. The reader will not be bogged down in the arcane language of the lab or technical terminology. (When it is necessary to introduce terms which might be unfamiliar, Glover defines those terms in simple language using footnotes on the same page.) Instead, Glover employs entertaining analogies and a bit of humor to shake us out of our comfort zones and compel us to think clearly! While Glover is not a trained scientist, he does not lack understanding of the technical issues at hand. But his presentation of those issue to the untrained reader is clear, straightforward and to the point. The result is a book that is easy to read, informative, and enjoyable. I recommend it to all my readers who wish to have a clearer world-view when it comes to the sciences of origins and the Bible.

Glover's forte is analogy. His analogies open up delightful windows upon the truth. They yield up opportunities to look at things from completely new and fresh angles. This sometimes indirect approach catches us off guard, and gently dismantles our faulty preconceived notions without attacking them head-on. It is hard to be defensive and argumentative when we are smiling! Whether Glover is imagining a fleet of levitating snow machines or exposing the folly of a Christian insistence upon "theistic meteorology", even the resistant reader will be disarmed and forced to rethink his cherished assumptions.

Another strength of Glover's is his understanding of ancient Near-Eastern world-views, and how they impacted the writing of the Old Testament. Every believer who struggles with early Genesis and Inspiration should read this book. Glover, a committed Bible believer, makes a strong case that those who would defend the Scriptures must do so with an understanding of the world in which they were written. His approach brings clarity to many of the riddles of Biblical interpretation, especially as they relate to modern science.

Reading Beyond the Firmament was a pleasure for me. I shared most of Glover's views before I read his book, and he introduced little information with which I was not already familiar. Still, his unique and fresh approach captivated me and gave me an enjoyable experience.

Glover has penned a superb treatise on the creation/evolution dilemma. He takes the reader to the true root of the controversy and carefully examines the contributing factors by thoroughly deconstructing and analyzing the current Creationism model. He offers up a model that is theologically sound, while preserving the biblical authority of the divinely inspired text and the validity of science.

The author's communication method is intelligent, yet done in a conversational style with everyday language and concepts. This is refreshing when compared to the overly-academic literary works on the market today.

What made me appreciate this book so much is the target audience the author had in mind, and how he relates to that audience at a very personal level. Glover wants to communicate with Evangelicals, and does so effectively. It is very apparent that the author holds his personal relationship with Christ very dear to his heart.

He recognizes that God divinely inspired the writing of Genesis. From there, Glover guides the reader through the authorial intent of Genesis 1 and evaluates the text as a theological response. His intriguing presentation is persuasive.

While Glover touches on evolutionary science, his primary focus is a treatment of the creation text. This is a must-read for anyone who is researching the never-ending creation/evolution controversy.

Beyond The Firmament excites me because it exposes the creation debate within the Christian circles and how the Christian community struggles to relate to the world in a meaningful way. Since Christianity as a whole is considerably diverse, let me clarify by pointing out that the thrust of Glover's arguments seems directed at fundamentalists, those who believe in Biblical inerrancy and literal interpretation of Genesis, those who think the earth is 6000 years old and Adam played with dinosaurs. I was once a fundamentalist and these issues have consumed me for the last three years.

This is a tough book to score because parts of it deserve five stars. Everyone should read this book for at least one reason: readability. I don't know how he does it, but he takes tough issues and explains them in a way that is usable, accessible and interesting. Your eyes will not glaze over with his explanations of radioactive dating, scientific method, or evolution. I will use this book as a primer helping me to explain these issues to non-science folk. This book really is an easy and enjoyable read- I slammed through it in two days. If you don't understand the science issues, this book will take longer, but the journey is well worth it.

Note to YEC folk: It is good to challenge your thinking. It is good for all of us to see all sides of an argument. Good ideas should stand up to scrutiny. I think many Christians want desperately to defend their orthodoxy and will cling to any group that provides them security. Uninformed lay people are easy prey. The best antidote is education, from many sources. I don't say this to insult the YEC audience. We are all victims of compartmentalized thinking and cognitive dissonance. We all need to grow up and step outside our self imposed limitations.

OK, now some of the downsides. This book is permeated with an apologetic worldview, meaning that Glover sees God in every answer and he answers every question assuming a religious bias. For a non-scientific Christian audience that will work, but it will make unbelievers question his scientific objectivity.

Secondly, his analysis of ancient cosmology is that ancient Babylonian creation accounts were written from the perspective of that time period, not ours. Fair enough. He is correct in pointing out that the ancient Near East cosmology held to a solid dome over the earth, stars mounted into the domes, storehouses of rain and hail, pillars for the earth, a flat earth, etc. But then he suggests that God used that same perspective in His Genesis creation account because He had to deal with their level of understanding. For example, on page 64 we read, "... rather than correct this common misunderstanding that the sky holds back an ocean of water above the heavens from which it rains through tiny windows, God creates this strange thing called a `firmament' to separate the waters above the earth from the waters below the earth, this dividing the `waters from the waters. ' Here we clearly see God intentionally repeating the same structural inaccuracies of the pagan cosmologies." What!? Intentional inaccuracies?! That sounds like Bill Clinton talk. If I intentionally told a judge inaccurate information wouldn't that be perjury? If Glover's analysis were correct, God's complicity in propagating this outlook would make me question God's integrity. Proverbs 30:5: "Every word of God is pure." Except when He lies to us? Just doesn't wash with me. Glover tries to talk his way out of this problem, but I can't buy it. If God was complicit in the Genesis deception, then is He deceiving us about other things as well? What about the Flood? Noah's Ark? The Tower of Babel? The virgin birth? The resurrection? The miracles? Where does it stop? Ancient cosmology or not, a lie is still a lie. Maybe Glover can tell us where to draw the line.

I like to apply the Outsider Test to give me objectivity. If I was arguing from an atheistic perspective, I would posit that a god would certainly be able to keep his word truthful. I would posit that the Bible contains no information that was unavailable to the people at that time, even though if it were "God-breathed" it would contain information that only God would know. All god had to do was speak up and silence us all. I would point out that the Biblical creation account is very similar to other accounts in that time period. Since the Bible does have scientific errors, and since the revelation in the Bible displays nothing supernatural, and since it appears to be a product of its time, I would have to conclude, if I were an atheist, that the bible is a human document requiring no divine input. (Occam's Razor would also lead me to this conclusion.) It hurts me to point out these obvious conclusions, but these are the issues that honest, thoughtful Christians must deal with. Glover's book does a great job exposing the wound, but I think his bandaid solution actually requires major surgery. Code blue.

And why does Glover insist on a religious outlook to our origins? See page 36: "Materialism, as a philosophy of life, is simply not consistent with the human experience. The spiritual realities that transcend the material universe are necessary because without them, the universe would be a morally unintelligible and irrational place. Immaterial absolutes like good, evil, love and hate would be entirely unknowable..." Glover goes on to develop a moral argument for God's existence. Ouch! That argument has been refuted half a million times. I would refer the reader to any of the theist/atheist debates found on the internet. To which I conclude, even if religion/Christianity/whatever gives your life meaning, it still says nothing about truth. Reality may not be a warm fuzzy. And of course, the old question, which religion? People have found "meaning" in them all. Not to mention that religion, even Christianity, has created some very wicked souls. `Nuff said.

A few comments on the format of the book. This type of book, covering many subjects with many references needs to have a subject index and an author index. It also needs a Bibliography and recommended reading. Wihout these things it looks like the author of the book is out there on his own, which is certainly not the presentation he wants to make to the reader.

Back to where I started. This book is easy to read and flows well. It will educate Christian and non-Christian alike to some real science and how it is applied. Theologically, Beyond The Firmament raises real issues, not the nonsense issues of Creation Science. The discussion has gone to a higher level, and I thank Glover for that. I'd just like to see some better answers.

There are loads of books on all sides of the Bible/science controversy, but I can say without exaggeration that "Beyond the Firmament" ought to be at the top of the required reading list. It is down to earth and easy to grasp, giving a good summary of the scientific evidences for the antiquity of the universe and biological evolution, and why Christians ought to care about these things, while maintaining a faith-affirming interpretation of the Bible. Whether you agree or disagree with the author's approach or with the evidences, there are still critical questions that are often left un-asked, which the author does a good job of conveying to a primarily non-technical audience.

The book is particularly styled toward conservative Christians, who tend to be the ones demanding scientific precision from ancient Biblical texts. The author, who once held this view, has been where many Christians fear to tread -- honestly investigating the scientific evidence of "the other side." He has returned, bringing an honest and forthright testimony that believers don't have to choose between accepting faith or the scientific evidence of the natural world. He holds that the Bible can be literally true (according to its intended message), while not necessarily being scientifically accurate according to science's limited knowledge in any given generation.

His main conclusion is that God's purpose in the Bible was to give timeless principles, in particular to the original Hebrew exiles from Egypt. They came out of a polytheistic culture, and needed to have reestablished in their minds the transcendence of a monotheistic Hebrew God. God chose the Ancient Near East (ANE) cosmology as a familiar framework for transforming the polytheistic views of the ANE into the monotheistic religion of the Hebrews, and to answer the questions important to them, such as who is God, and does he have all power over creation? God did not choose a 20th century cosmology as the literary framework for answering modern-day creation science questions, such as how old is the universe, or what physical mechanisms led to the present biological diversity? Requiring scripture to answer these questions is anachronistic, and does injustice to the timeless themes God intended to convey, in favor of timely questions that have only been important to Western scientific culture in the last few hundred years.

Be sure to see the introductory videos on the author's Web site, http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/video-presentations/does-science-contradict-the-bible/. These contain the same basic information as the early part of the book, but present it in a succinct and visually appealing manner.

Just a word about a few of the weaknesses of the book, aside from the occasional glaring typo. Technical readers may complain that the scientific portions gloss over too much of the scientific technicalities, but this is not the goal of the book. In the section on DNA, the emphasis on the staggering numbers of various potential genetic sequences are a bit too technical for the general audience. In the end, the conclusion for why this necessarily looks more like common descent than common design is less than convincing, at least on my first time through. He may be 100% correct, but as a non-specialist in genetic science, the conclusion here seemed to be reaching a bit.

The book uses primarily cosmological history to address why we shouldn't try to use the Bible as a scientific text, but doesn't really deal with the difficult theological problems of how to handle such questions as death before the fall, Adam and Eve and their descendents, or Noah's flood (although the ANE firmament cosmology should provide the reader a basis for reexamining traditional assumptions about the flood). For these questions, you'll have to look elsewhere.

Gordon Glover isn't the first to propose a framework interpretation of Genesis 1, but he does so in such a way as to be accessible to the average reader, and maintains a high view of scripture in the process.

I thought this book was excellent. I've long been troubled by what I thought was an unnecessary and hurtful conflict between many in the Christian faith and the scientific community. I've been apalled at some of the nonsense coming out of "Answers in Genesis" or the "Creation Science Institute". It's genuinely damaging to one's witness when your credibility as a thinking person is instantly dismissed because so many people associate Christianity with a young earth dogma.

Best parts of the book: Insight into the common themes among near east "creation stories" that the original readers of Genesis would have been familiar with. Also, the author does one of the better jobs of suggesting a means of how to approach Genesis in a way that lets the Book speak for itself without us instantly slathering it in a 20th century mindset.

Also, the examples from history are very powerful. I was familiar with the heliocentric controversy but had not been entirely clear on the controversy over the spherical earth. If nothing else, those two embarrassing chapters in Christian history should give any Young Earth Creationist pause, lest they continue to part of yet another sad chapter today.

Weaker parts: Towards the later chapters, it feels a bit repetitive in parts. Also, he would do well to provide folks with some more guidance on what else to read to better understand the science he is summarizing. It is in the footnotes, but a reading guide at the end would be good.

Sadly, I think the audience most in need of reading this will toss it aside, hissing "heresy" rather than even consider the points the author makes.

I am working on a Doctorate in Religius Studies. My area of study is primarily focused on how to best interpret the Bible. This is a book that informed, inquisitive, and serious Christians should read. I like others have been brought up in a very conservative theological enviroment. I have accepted certain ideas about interpretation because these have come from trusted sources. I am open to truth since I believe all truth is Gods truth. This book will help you to stretch your thinking while at the same time encourage you to continue to study to 'the glory of God'. This is a must read for those interested in interpretation and those interested in understanding Genesis, the book of beginnings. This should also be most helpful for those concerned about the creation evolution debate. It takes a more reliable historical literary approach, which differs from and clarifies the weaknesses of both entrenched views. (that is from an interpretive perspective) A good read, a real blessing. Pastor Ken

If one is to take the Bible as the 100% literal Word of God, one cannot help but come to the conclusion that somewhere above the surface of the earth is a hard structure called the "firmament". Above that are the waters which flow through the firmament and cause rain. One must also come to the inescapable conclusion that the earth is flat and unmoving. This contradicts the fact that man has landed on the moon, sent probes to other planets and I personally have flown around the world, demonstrating that the earth cannot be flat. Using my God-given logic and intelligence, I long ago came to the conclusion that the Bible cannot be 100% literal.

The current scientific understanding says the universe is over 13 billion years old and the earth itself is approximately 4.5 billion years old. If one were to calculate the age of the earth starting from the birth of Christ and working backwards counting all of Jesus' ancestors back to Adam himself, one could come up with something along the lines of 6000 years for the age of the year. (Which someone has already been done) How can one reconcile the scientific calculations with the Word of God? If the scientists are correct, then the Bible must be incorrect, right?.

Because my own intelligence and logic gave me information that ran counter to a literal interpretation of the Bible, I have questioned my belief in God for many years. With the new tools and perspectives that Gordon has given me, I have begun to look at my beliefs with a renewed faith. I've come to accept that the Bible does not teach us either history or science. Therefore, if one of the human writers got something wrong, particularly without the benefit of 2000 years of scientific investigation, my faith is not shaken.

To assume God dictated the Bible, word by word, to every single one of its authors is ludicrous. Instead the content was inspired by God, but was still written down by fallible men, some of whom had their own goals and motivations. When we see what has been done by "inspired" men in the name of God just within our own lifetimes, it is a natural conclusion that the same kind of thing happened in the past. Could that not have influenced what people wrote about God and what eventually became scripture? I believe the answer is "yes". However, even if the goal was not to intentionally deceive people, humans will make mistakes when trying to interpret the boundless mind of God, as well as make mistakes when copying text. Fortunately, the core aspects of the Bible are easily seen, despite any errors or inconsistencies. Will we be damned to the lake of fire if we believe the world is 4.5 billion years old? Not if God is loving and just.

Gordon does not deny the fact that the Bible was divinely inspired. However, he points out the target audience of the original authors were not people who had an understanding of quantum physics and molecular biology. As a result, what was written had to be done in terms that people 4000 years ago were capable of understanding, so the creation stories were written in a different style than had they been written today. This does not mean the Bible is not timeless, but as Gordon points out, is not the purpose of the Bible to teach human history. Or, as Galileo put it, the Bible "is intended to teach us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go", something Gordon does a great job of making clear to anyone willing to listen.

Because the book addresses the underlying principles of both scientific theories and scripture, you naturally expect that it needs to go into some depth. However, to truly understand Gordon's message and the points he is trying to make, one does not need to be either a scientist or a biblical scholar. Instead the material is presented in a manner in which the layperson can understand. One of his basic premises is the fact that although God did create the universe and all the physical laws, but that does not require Him to be pushing buttons in a control room to create storms, earthquakes, or even genetic mutation. (my analogy)

One annoying aspect of the creation versus evolution debate is how frequently creationists refer to the "evils" of science, that somehow science is "corrupting" faith or even the Bible itself. They seem to forget that without that same "science" they would not be able to post videos on YouTube, enjoy all the comforts of modern life, and many of which would be dead because of the medical advances made by scientists who believe evolution to be an accurate representation of reality. Gordon makes it clear that one does not need to make a black and white decision between "science" and God. There is no need to be divided into two camps: belief in science and belief in God. Instead, Gordon demonstrates one can believe in both.

I take exception with people who insists that a non-literal interpretation of Genesis implies that God is lying, assuming the Bible is the 100% literal word of God. Perhaps on some arbitrary, absolute scale it would be lying. Just as it would be lying to tell your six-year-old daughter that you frightened away all of the monsters in her closet. She does not have the experience or intellect to understand that monsters do not exist, so we tell her a story, which she can understand and which is comforting to her. So it was with the creation stories told 4000 plus years ago and written down in Genesis. It does not matter that we can understand about the Big Bang and evolution today and that the Bible is supposed to be timeless. It is timeless, but it only needs to be so for those issues that was intended to address.

I must also disagree with some reviewers who contend that the book was written only for Christians. (especially considering that one of the most ardent evolution opponents, Ben Stein, is Jewish) Naturally, it is unlikely that hard-core atheists would even consider buying this book, because, for them, there is no God and so the entire argument is moot. On the other hand, theists who may have lost their faith, or are beginning to, will find this book both exciting and refreshing.

One of the most beneficial aspects of this book is Gordon's style of writing. Rather than trying to lecture to us about either science or scripture, Gordon is talking with us as if he were our friend, trying to convince us of something very important, while at the same time not being overbearing. I am frequently both overwhelmed and annoyed by people on both sides of the argument whose final line of defense (or attack) are to question my intelligence and logic. Although Gordon does spell out a number of conclusions for you, some of which having possible alternate interpretations, he generally allows us to to come to any conclusions ourselves, or at the very least he poses the question "don't you think?"

I first became aware of Gordon's ideas through a series of videos he published on YouTube (user: glovergj). This 16 video series provides a good introduction to what is presented in the book. While the videos present the material in enough depth for you to understand what Gordon is trying to say, the book naturally goes into far more detail. I found that watching the videos provided me with a good introduction to the material and I could concentrate more on the nuts and bolts while reading the book.

I have done reviews of technical books professionally for a number of years. I've also had several technical books and dozens of magazine articles published, so I understand how much work goes into a technical book, where you have to check and recheck all of your facts. Often books end up being technically accurate, but so completely inaccessible to the reader as to be worthless. Not so for this one. Further, I have seen both the print and online media explode to such an extent that it is almost impossible to tell where to start on any subject. Because of the ease of publishing the quality of books has gone down substantially in recent years. As a result, the number of books that have really excite me has become relatively small. The number of "must buy" books are even fewer. Gordon Glover's "Beyond the Firmament" is definitely one of those.

Five stars, because that's all I can give.

The whole conflict between faith and science has been trumped up. Does this surprise you? This book will convince you.

This book is divided up into four sections. "What do we know and how do we know it?" is a preliminary, basic overview of what is called "epistemology" in fancy terms, making distinctions between natural and special revelation that carry the next two sections. "What can the Bible tell us about nature?" is a look at the special revelation in the Bible and discusses the boundaries of what it can tell us and why we can't just assume over-literalized interpretations when interpreting it. In the next section, "What can nature tell us about itself?", Glover describes what science can tell us about the beginning of the universe and the origin our our solar sytem, and then describes why radiometric dating methodology is reliable. The last section, "What about evolution?" is a summary of evolutionary theory.

Glover's strong points are his knack for analogy and his conversational style. His humility and honesty about the limitations of science make bearable the experience of shattering the "godless atheist" facade so many evangelicals have constructed in front of mainstream science. He explains some heady concepts (including a bit of mathematics and physics) very simply, and just in case it starts seeming too dense, he doesn't linger there long; for more advanced readers, he provides references to more technical works.

This book was not meant to grapple with theological issues associated with Adam or the Fall; it does try to provide a case for not simply dismissing any data that might make us take a second look at our first guess on those topics.

This book is accessible but not condescending, enjoyable and humorous at times but not a slick car-sales job, earnest but not overbearing.
For anyone who might be interested in looking into the issue of evolutionary creationism (Glover's term of choice in lieu of "theistic evolution"), Beyond the Firmament is the place to start.

Also make sure to check out his website at http://blog.beyondthefirmament.com.