Customer Reviews

Bosch AquaStar Indoor Liquid Propane Tankless Water Heater #250SX-LP

5 star:		(2)
4 star:		(2)
3 star:		(4)
2 star:		(0)
1 star:		(2)

 

 

I have used the Internet extensively for information on tankless water heaters and this 250SX-NG indoor model in particular, so I wanted to fully detail my experiences accurately for others. In short, these things aren't for everyone, it depends on your usage and tolerance, your handyman ability, and the quality of plumbing in your home particularly water pressure. That being said, I am personally very happy with my 250SX set up, but I had to make some adjustments.

Usage: I only use hot water at the kitchen faucet, dishwasher, and clothes washer about once a week. I take a 10 or 15 minute shower every morning. About once a month I fill my 75 gallon jacuzzi. Rarely do I use hot water in the bathroom sinks for other uses, I often wash my hands in cold water. Other than the jacuzzi water and shower, I use very little hot water. Having a hot water tank of 75 gallons, or even 40 gallons, just does not make sense. The 250SX needs 0.8 gallon flow to activate the heating element. I take fairly hot showers and I keep the 250SX at 124 degrees. Because an extra 0.8 gallon flows through the pipes before the 250SX activates, some complain that it takes too long to get hot water, but I think it is no big deal. A bigger problem for some: when you turn off the hot water then turn it on again, your hot water that was in the pipe comes first, then the 0.8 cold water, then it gradually gets hot again. That is a little annoying. Imagine your wife turning the hot water on and off to wash dishes. A hot water tank would just keep the hot water flowing ready for on/off use, but not a tankless unit. It wasn't too big of a deal, but in the end I decided to solve the problem by adding a 6 gallon hot water tank (Ariston GL6+) in series after the 250SX. The 250SX has 3/4 inch NPT water threads, to keep the pressure constant make sure you get a small holding tank that also has 3/4 inch NPT water threads. The hot water always flows through the hot water tank last and the outward source recieves hot water from the small holding tank first. Also, the 0.8 gallon of cold water flows into the small tank first where it is mixed with 6 gallons tanked hot water. Set the small tank at about 4 degrees higher than the 250SX and you won't even know the difference in temperature; problem solved. One guy told me that his wife insists that the hot water must be 140 degrees in the dishwasher, but she also likes luke-warm showers. The problem here is that the 250SX does not get the 0.8 gallon of flow when she is in the shower. Add the fact that she messes with the shower's water controls and the unit goes from on (hot) to off (cold) while she is in the shower. Apparently, that really pisses her off. The small holding tank helps with this too, but there are several ways to solve this problem: 1) get a new wife, 2) use Bosch's remote temperature control (about $120 extra) at the shower to turn down the temperature, 3) turn on a bathroom faucet while she showers (wasting a lot of hot water) 4) my new dishwasher (this recently went out too) has an option to superheat the water it uses (it must have a separate water heater). Some people complain that the unit causes less hot water pressure, but that is not my experience at all. It helps to have good water pressure to begin with (mine is 70 psi) but maybe the hard piping to keep 3/4 of water flowing without bottlenecks helps too. Some people complain that the unit makes a high pitched noise, but that is not my experience either. I will say this: for a short time I had it connected to the previous tanks 1/2 inch gas line. It did make this noise a little when two hot water appliances worked at the same time; probably has to do with needing more gas than available in the 1/2 inch line. In that case, that problem is solved by hard piping a 3/4 inch gas pipe to the 250SX. It seems to me all these problems are related to particular usage or to improper installation; READ THE INSTALLATION MANUAL.

Installation: The venting exhaust must be on its own line, NOT combined with say your furnace exhaust. Also, be sure you incline the exhaut pipe upward if venting horizontally as the manufacturer requires. Incidentally, the model's installation instructions are available on the Internet, READ THE INSTALLATION MANUAL. The 250SX drinks in 175,000 BTU when it is working hard, that might mean you will need to upgrade your gas line. In my case, I was replacing my furnace as well as the water heater. The guy that installed the furnace, used the previous 3/4 inch gas line for the 250 SX, then ran another gas line for the new furnace. Since it was part of the bid, I have no way of knowing the cost, but I would guess the cost at $75 of the furnace bid. To insure that the 250SX gets sufficient gas, the installation manual strongly suggests that the gas line be hard piped to the unit which is what the furnace guy did for me. Another guy told me to hard pipe the water lines to unsure that there are no bottle necks in the water pressure. Apparently, a 3/4 inch flex line is actually 5/8 inch in the middle. I sweated the 3/4 inch copper pipe from the cold water source to the 250SX, then to the 6 gallon holding tank, then to the hot water line; all water runs through 3/4 inch copper pipe with unions for quick uninstall if either the 250SX or the holding tank needs to be replaced someday. You will need an outlet for the 250SX pilotless ignition, but I think it takes very little power. If you install the Ariston tank, it requires a 20 amp circuit hardwired to the unit. So, you've got to know a little about electrical, plumbing for copper pipe, and basic handyman skills for everything else. I found it to be a fun little installation project. You can also contract out the installation but it is rather expensive.

Costs: I bought mine at a local hardware store for $899 + tax. The expenses don't stop there, if properly installed this model MUST HAVE a special sealed 3 inch stainless steel pipe for hot gas (carbon monoxide) exhaust, plus a wall thimble and a termination hood. I needed 13.5 feet of exhaust venting (AL29 type) which I bought on the Internet (Cinnabar) for $292. The optional small holding tank (Ariston GL6+) cost me $174 (from Ace hardware on the Internet, have them send it to one of their stores). There is another $150 to $200 in other materials, including a 20 amp circuit plus 12 gauge wire for the small holding tank which needs to be hard wired, copper pipe, etc. The 250SX itself needs an outlet for pilotless ignition. You are supposed to have both on separate curcuits, but I felt this was not necessary, so I put them on the same circuit, outlet and hardwire to the small tank. In total, everything cost me about $1650 with the small tank and installing everything myself. Figure more if you need to increase your gas line as these things suck 175,000 BTUs when loaded, plus $800 to $1500 more if you have someone else install it for you. I got a quote for about $800 for the install not including the small holding tank or the extra for the increased gas line.

Analysis: I figure a quality large water heater, big enough for my Jacuzzi, would be about $800 installed. I will get $300 back in a Federal Tax credit, so the tankless unit setup is $550 in extra expenses that have to be made up in savings ($1650 - $800 -$300 = $550). I figure I save $8 a month in energy costs when I subtract the $2.50 a month to operate the small 6 gallon water tank. It depends on how much hot water you use, others claim they save $20 a month. That means it will take me about 6 years to break even. The warranty is 12 years on the 250SX and 6 years on the GL+6. Keep in mind that tankless units are expected to give twice the service of a water tank. That make sense since most water tanks rust out trying to hold all that water. I have used the 250SX for 2 months now. I'm tickled pink by the unit, but NOT because of my marginal energy savings. With the small tank in series, it acts a lot like the tank I replaced, except the hot water is endless, great for the Jacuzzi, and a lot of room is freed up in my garage. Bottom line: If you 1) have good water pressure (a must), 2) are able to install it yourself, 3) have other reasons besides energy savings to install, then I highly recommend it. If you are lacking on these 3 points then do yourself a favor and just replace your old hot water tank with another.

I am writing this review 15 minutes before the midnight of New Year's Eve of 2006 after a few hours of installation of this wonderful tankless water heater.

I don't know what worse that could happen than having your water heater broken on New Year's Eve, but that's what happened to me. The funny thing is I have been thinking about getting a tankless water heater for some time now since the 40-gallon water heater that came with the house is about 20 years old (I can't believe it when I think about it). For those who never used tankless water heater, it's very popular in Asian countries. One thing that I worried is the capacity. The ones I used before were all for small apartments (less than 1000 sq. ft.) compare to our 2700 sq. ft. two story house (three including basement). I had pretty much decided on the Bosch brand. So, this afternoon around 3:30 pm, I went down to the basement thinking to get something done on this bookcase that I was working on, then I spotted some water on the furnance room floor. It was dripping from the water heater's plastic drain valve ( I swear that I will never buy anything that has a plastic valve), then the worst thing happened when I tried to turn the valve wheel, the whole thing just broke from its neck (it has just rotted through). Next 45 minutes, I was trying to keep the damage to a minimum by running my Hyla vacuum (it's great in picking up water from floor, but I wish it has a bigger bucket as my Shopvac which I lended to a friend) and running back and forth with a basin between the water heater and bathroom tub. After the water died down, I got on the net. After some research (including reading the reviews here) on the models, I picked out this one and the 125HX or 125B. I called around that HD only has this model, Lowes carries this and the less expensive model - 125B-NG and -LP. So I went to Lowes, just wanted to see both models. Then I learnt that this one with the one grand price tag, also requires stainless steel venting kit that runs extra $220, and another $60-70 worth of valves and pipe and fittings. This model is even smaller than the 125B despite double the cost. They only have the venting kit for this model, so I took the plunge on the spot. Long story short, $1350 and 4 hours later (I had dinner during that time btw), I was in hot shower on the second floor. It took about 30-40 seconds for hot water to reach the second floor from basement which is expected. I don't know why it would require someone to charge you thousands of dollars to install. All you need to do is having common knowledge and basic tools and skills of plumbing and gas line, follow instructions and safety measures carefully. Cold water between uses is expected with any tankless water heater unless you want your house to be like a hotel. Or install it on the main floor instead of basement, but that only decreases the time before hot water gets to a faucet on different floor. Or add a buffer tank as another reviewer did. But to me it's not a big deal. I hardly notice the temperature change when another faucet is running during my shower, that we always tried to avoid with the old water heater. The water can get scalding hot just with the factory setting at 122 degrees F.

Final thoughts: is it worth the $1300 price tag? I am not sure. Only time can tell. Do I like it? You bet ya, that I love it.

The unit performs great for large hot water applications. However, for normal use at a sink the performance is less than stellar; unless you leave the water runing all of the time you expect to use it. When you turn off the facet between uses, the tank has to restart when you turn it back on. This means that a flow of cold water will now be in your hotwater pipes. This provides a hot fading to cold and then fading back to hot effect. The only way to fix this appears to be to install a small hotwater tank in line with the unit. The tank needs to be large enough to filter out the water temperature fluctuations. A 4 gallon electric tank appears to do the trick. Also, ensure that water pressure to the tank does not fluctuate when another cold water device is turned on. If it does, it will shut off the hotwater heater and then it will have to restart. This can be fixed by installing a pressure regulator inline with the tank and setting the pressure low enough so that facet demands do not cause it to drop.

Out of all the purchases I've made via Amazon this is the first time I got the wrong Item . The first time was may fault. I wasn't aware that Bosch has an indoor and outdoor model water heater and no where in the vendors advertisement does he tell you that. I found out after reading the installation instructions. Second, the vendor sent me a propane heater rather than the natural gas one that I ordered. This happened after I sent Amazon an email that I hadn't recieved the heater in the time promised. Amazon leaned on them and I got the wrong heater. I sent the heater back and my refund was hungup because of a technical issue, what ever that was. I sent Amazon another email and they must have done some leaning again because I got my refund . That's why I shop at Amazon.

I needed the Bosch 250SXO for outdoor installation. I got one from Global. There wasn't one available from Amazon. I believe it's a new product from Bosch. It was easy to install. It's out back hanging on the side of the house. It's quiet, takes little space, and works very well. I'm impressed so far. It's suppose to go trouble free for 12 years. We'll see. There is one thing you'll have to get use to and that's the minimum water flow of .8 gal/min to keep the heater from turning off while you're using it. This occurs for us while rinsing dishes. The hot water will fade in and out at that flow rate. Other than that it gives all the hot water I can use without a problem. The factory set the temp at 120 degrees. That's way to hot for us. I turned it down to 110 and mix with cold water. I'm giving it 4 stars only because it's new. So far so good.

Gas bill did go down. Takes a long time for the water to get to the second floor. Kids who want a tepid shower find that it cuts off if the flow is too low.Cannot be easily installed. Requires special stainless steel venting that runs about $20/foot just for parts (cannot use your old hot water heaters venting, hard to find people who will repair it. Requires annual inspection and preventive maintainance of parts (so the net saving may not be there (lower gas bill / higher maintainance cost). Electric powered (no electricity no hot water). Saves a lot of space. Make sure you read the instuction manual yourself to make sure it is put in correctly. If new construction I would get again but to fit it into an existing house is not easy. Installed cost can run $3,000

We purchased a 250SX-LP a bit over a year ago. After going through three units and a total of about 12 hours of technician time (all paid for by Controlled Combustion) we have a unit that works, sorta.

Our problem is that we're at the "high" altitude of 3500 feet, and the 250SX doesn't have the equivalent of an O2 sensor to provide closed loop combustion control. At low flow rates (i.e., dishwasher, washing machine, taps in bathrooms) the unit is unable to maintain stable combustion (complete with a loud groaning sound that shakes the neighborhood), flames out and eventually enters safe mode, requiring a manual reset. We've taken to calling ours "Eric" in an oblique Pythonesque reference to the "Fish License" sketch and particularly "Eric the Half-a-bee" (i.e., Eric the Half-a-Water-Heater).

The unit is also not terribly efficient. With no other changes overall propane usage is up 12% since switching to the Aquastar. Vent gas is so hot that B pipe has to be used. The argument that tankless heaters are more efficient is suspect in the face of superinsulated ultra high efficiency tank heaters that vent using PVC pipe, at least for anyone who uses hot water on a daily basis.

On the plus side, the unit does produce endless hot water for showers -- as long as you're not using low flow shower heads, which again confuse its little mind.

We'd consider one of these things for a weekend cabin on the coast, but it was decidedly not the right choice for a family of four in the mountains.

The installation cost of this unit is staggering, at least to me. With the requirement of a larger than standard gas line and other installation requirements, the cost of of putting this unit in your home is over $4,000. including the cost of the unit. I cannot justify the expediture.

This is essentially a copy of a letter I faxed to Bosch earlier today, May 6, 2008

My husband and I built what amounted to our dream home and moved in just over two years ago. Because this would be our last home, we purchased quality appliances and durable materials. We have been satisfied with the purchases we made with the sole exception of the Aquastar 250 SX LP. We began using this water heater the day we moved into our home, April 13, 2006. After some minor adjustments (debris in the line, low water pressure) the unit seemed to be exactly what we needed.

Then, on July 5, 2006 while entertaining a houseguest from England, the heater malfunctioned with Code A2, and we were without hot water. After ordering a part directly from Customer Service in Vermont, several days later and paying $230 for labor, we had hot water. In addition, the plumber suggested installing a "Complete Plumbing Kit" to prevent further problems. We agreed, and on July 21, 2006 and $200 later we again had a functioning heater.

A few weeks after that repair and continuing to date, the heater requires resetting on about a tri-weekly basis. The problem arises when my husband is getting ready for work at 5 am. This entails getting dressed for outside and crawling through an exterior access hole to reach the unit under our house. The situation is aggravated by the fact that at 5 a.m. it is always dark outside, frequently below freezing, and a nuisance to say the least.

Repair bills dated March 5, 2008 and April 19, 2008, show that we have had an ongoing struggle to maintain hot water capabilities in our new home. We have paid for this heater more than twice by this time.

Friends who have Rinnai heaters experience none of the problems we have had.

The latest malfunction occurred this morning, only two weeks after our last repair. After another 5 a.m. journey we find a P2 error code. The plumber came this afternoon and informed us that he needs to order a valve. The repair is to take place two days from now, so we again are without hot water.

This heater is just days over two years old and obviously an inferior product.

My 92 year old father lives with us; my husband has just undergone surgery, and I cannot communicate to you how frustrated we are with this water heater. I do not know of another appliance I have purchased in my lifetime that has performed as poorly as this water heater has.

Update: We just heard from the plumber that the repair this time would be $800 to $1000. Needless to say, we are scrapping the Bosch and purchasing a Rinnai, which is what we should have purchased two years ago.

In talking with the plumbing company, I learned that they receive either many calls, or no calls on the Bosch heaters. On the other hand, they never hear from Rinnai owners.

If I could give this product negative stars, I would.

I would rate the unit at a negative 100.

One of the worst items I purchased. Water would fluctuate, be too hot to stand on the lowest settings. This was installed by professionals in a new house. I got several error codes. Finally had enough and called tech support. I was on the phone 2 hours the first time I called and that was on hold. Then I spent another hour playing games with the unit.

We spent over 10 hours talking to tech support over a month's period. I had to switch the unit on and off to get a bath. Tech support said the supplier told me the wrong unit to buy. Another tech support told me that that was wrong. I had to take off a lot of time to get the gas and plumbing installers to come back and check their work which was correct.

Finally I had enough and called the supplier. They worked with me to get me a credit. By the way that supplier no longer sells Bosch. Just give me your money instead of buy the Bosch unit. I can hand deliver consistent and dependable hot water better than Bosch. Oh yeah and you can get a straight answer from me without the long wait. Maybe the long wait shows that there are a lot of consumers that are having the same problems.

Replaced with Rinnia and it works as designed.

I Bought the first model five years ago from Amazon. Built my house, installed the unit as per instructions. We have had very fine service from this unit. I Used it in a pex based matrix water system with flex lines to each tap. Sized up the gas supply line to 3/4 yellow flex for propane gas. READ THE INSTALL DIRECTIONS YOURSELF. I have seen two others not installed correcly and the gas company did them... Pay attention to the code and venting. Stainless steel vent pipe should keep you safe. This is a real boiler and it gets very hot...be safe.