Customer Reviews

Call of Cthulhu (d20 Edition Horror Roleplaying, WotC)

5 star:		(12)
4 star:		(6)
3 star:		(3)
2 star:		(2)
1 star:		(4)

 

 

Even though this product is a year old, and much reviewed, I felt obligated to contribute. The reasoning: I'm a 20 year long fan of the original CoC game - and HPL.

This product is expertly produced and well written. The thematic approach taken is well illustrated on the credits page: Based upon Call of Cthulhu by Sandy Petersen and Lynn Willis, Inspired by the works of H.P. Lovecraft. With *inspired* being the key phrase.

The Chaosium version is about roleplaying IN the worlds of HP Lovecraft - with that focus on an identical setting and parallel plot situations. The D20 CoC game isn't meant to replicate either the fiction or the Chaosium classic. Just like D+D 3E wasn't meant to replicate TSR AD+D (thank God(s).

In addition to a stand alone game, it is clear that part of the intent of this book was to "officiate" the use of Lovecraft's mythos in D+D. Nearly 20 years after their banishment from Deities and Demigods, the Elder horrors can return to haunt the lands of Elves and Hobb- er... Halflings.

Despite my serious worries over a level based CoC game - I will blasphem and proclaim that *system* wise - this game is superior to the original CoC.

The D20 system is far more dynamic and flexible. Target numbers are simply the best way for characters and the GM to have more control/impact over the game environment. The dicing becomes a transparent medium with which to create drama in which the characters are the stars (lucky or otherwise). Most players I currently deal with find the idea of percentile scores and fixed, chart based target numbers very restricting. It makes character individualities and base traits less important. And I see no reason to enforce that through use of a dated - though very efficient - system.

The provided flavor text constantly emphasizes Lovecraft's influence (he is quoted on nearly all the pages) and the frailty of the characters compared to fantasy/action counterparts. And that the game shouldn't be about duking it out with monsters. A noble attempt to immediately nix delusions of slugging it out with a shoggoth. But there is no way getting around an investigator with 75 hit points being able to survive multiple shotgun blasts unless they are very unlucky. One freak indigent with a baseball bat should be a real threat. The feats aren't particularly disruptive - many are non combative or only add a slight "edge". But neither are they necessary. They can easily be overlooked or adjusted as play style dictates. Psychic feats seem out of place at first, but I've had several players ask about having some slight mental or mediumistic power.
Level oriented advancement won't be a problem beyond the potential for very hit point heavy characters. This is easily remedied by simply using a d3 instead of d6 for hit point advancement - and of course in the best HPL based games - having most of the situations get worse through violence.

One thing that strikes me as a bit confusing is that there is no substantial or logical adjustment to the sanity rules. With all the emphasis of a D20 in the D20 system, the sanity loss remains exactly the same - percentile based. I still think this is the best simulation of eroding sanity in any RPG, so I'm not complaining - but it seems an odd thing to leave inorganic to the D20 system in the context of changing just about everything else. I also have personal interpretive issues with the use of skills to "first aid" a character going insane (or even characters slipping to -10 sanity instead of just losing the plot at 0). The section pertaining to insanity classification and treatments is well researched and thoroughly explained.

The handling of spells and tomes is fairly true to form. There is a bit more "D+Dism" here than elsewhere in the book, but that isn't something a good group/GM can't overcome. If you wish to make the forbidden books harsher to read and their associated magic/lore less easy to use - then go for it. Monte Cook won't have you arrested for changing his game.
The monsters are well presented, with some of the text coming right out of the original RPG. There are a few key creatures missing, which I can't imagine couldn't have been made room for. The "Mummy" template section particularly interesting - and have enjoyed some of the "variant" interpretations of the various "False Gods".

Most people who shout down the D20 versions of various games have never played them, or even synthesized the rules. Many somehow reconcile a stand against corporate superstructure by turning up their noses at D20 while wolfing down as many fast food meals as their friends are willing to buy for them during their weekly gaming forays. CoC D20 core rules are no exception. If reliance on a percentile system to create a successful horror scenario is necessary - then you should probably look into a different hobby.

Playing in the tradition of Lovecraft's horror is about setting and atmosphere. Not which dice you roll. However most players I know have come to prefer dynamic, target based systems over static percentile based games. I see no issue with using a 'different' system if that makes them happy and allows you all to enjoy the story. The fact that I have used AD+D 1st ed as dark fantasy/Lovecraft is testament to the mutability of Cthulhu and the mythos. After reading the rules and supplementary text I am confident that any alterations won't affect the ability of a good GM and players to enjoy Lovecraft's vision. Bad GMs and players will always pervert a game's intent and atmosphere with a predisposition towards superpowers and mega-damage. Does this game - through use of its level/feat/class based groundwork *promote* sessions in which Investigators attack cultist hide-outs A-Team style? No - bad players and worse Gamemasters promote that. Rules are static suggestions drawn from a page in a book.

First, a word of warning to the shopper--although Amazon doesn't make it clear in the title, this is the d20 version of the Call of Cthulhu RPG.

That out of the way--the greatest thing in this book is John Tynes' articles on how to GM a Call of Cthulhu game, and the background info on the Mythos. They are actually better than what's in the regular (non-d20) Call of Cthulu rulebook. Also, the rules for psychic characters are intriguing, and it's kinda kewl to have all those Mythos monsters and gods statted up for d20, so you can spring them on your unsuspecting Dungeons and Dragons characters.

Those good points are so very very good that I give this product 5 stars, despite one very serious flaw: the rules are lame. Oh, Tynes and Cook do good things with them--many of their ideas were later used in other d20 products, and they certainly make some small improvements with the d20 rules. But it's still d20, and thus far clunkier and less elegant than the original Call of Cthulhu rules. Now, those CoC rules are far from perfect, but still, they are so much easier to learn and to use, and really, the *only* thing you need to buy to play CoC is the rulebook--no, not the "core" rulebook, because there *aren't* any other rulebooks! Oh sure, there are supplements, but unlike D&D, none of them is crucial to play. And unlike D&D, when Chaosium does a new edition, they don't change it so much that it's completely incompatible with previous material. Most of the changes are in gathering together published spells and monsters and equipment, so that (gasp!) you won't *have* to buy other supplements!

So, I didn't actually buy it for the d20 rules--although that will allow me to introduce my local gaming group (some members of which refuse to play anything other than D&D) to CoC. I bought it as a supplement for the regular version of Call of Cthulhu--something entirely unnecessary, but beautiful and fun to have. Looked at that way, it's 5 stars, easy.

Having read the above reviews, I feel a somewhat calmer voice might be necessary. This book is exactly what it says it is: a D20 adaptation of the Call of Cthulhu rules. The game designers' job was not to remove what had gone before, but to mesh two rather disparate systems together as seemlessly as possible. I don't think they succeeded on every front, but I think they did a very good job, overall.

I think this game works especially well on two levels:

1. Introducing new players to the game and to HPL: Like it or not, D20 rules are the most popular RPG system on the market right now. There are many, many people playing D20 games who have not even heard of H.P. Lovecraft. Personally, I got into the game before ever picking up one of his books, and they led me to a whole genre of fiction I might never have looked at otherwise. D20CoC is now poised to do that for a whole lot of players. And I've had players who weren't at all interested in learning a new system to play Classic CoC express an interest in trying D20CoC, and, from that experience, become willing to learn the original game.

2. Making it possible to add CoC flavor/encounters to D&D: I've done it in the distant past, and I'm certainly thinking about it again.

Do I think this game is a substitute or replacement for Classic CoC? No. I am running and will still run Classic CoC when I want to run Cthulhu.

Do I think it's still a fun game and a decent adaptation? Yes, and I do recommend it for those who might want to try Cthulhu but who don't want to take the plunge and learn a whole new game system.

If this book introduces new people into the worlds of H.P. Lovecraft, I suppose that is a good thing. However, as a longtime player of Call of Cthulhu, I see no real need for this book. I have done a few campaigns now using d20 Cthulhu. Quite a bit is lost in the translation to d20, and nothing is really gained.

D20 makes for more combat-orientated roleplaying. Stats such as Armor Class seem strange in a game with no armor. (Defense, used in Star Wars d20 would have been a better choice.) The majority of feats are combat focused, and thus useless when facing down Mythos beasts. That essential feeling of helplessness, of fear when confronting the Mythos, is lost when your character can attack using "Great Cleave" and "Autofire."

Experience points are hard to calculate when the main challenge is going to the library. The original Sanity system is retained, which does not make sense in a d20 system.

The feel of this book is just not...Lovecraftian. It feels more like the "Evil Dead" trilogy than "Shadow over Innsmouth." An action movie that peppers Lovecraft in to lend it some mystique and street cred, rather than the Victorian atmosphere of Weird fiction.

The original is still best. Chaosium's d100 Call of Cthulhu is pretty much a perfect roleplaying game, and there is nothing added by moving to the d20 system other than catching the eye of the D & D crowd. But, I suppose that is the point.

I've read the many reviews on the subject of why d20 cthulhu is lame and why it isn't. Hardcore original system players don't like the action-oriented feel of d20 (which automatically brings to mind images of fighters and wizards battling the Mythos and winning!)

I never played the original version, but i have read some of Lovecraft's stories and i like his fiction. I bought the old version at the same time i bought the new one, compared and contrasted the two, and in my non-professional opinion, i think they are both beautiful games that can offer tons of unique entertainment for gamers.

If not for d20 cthulhu, i never would have been introduced to shoggoths and mi-go, colours from space and the machinations of the Great Old Ones. That was a main reason for publishign the book, and i doubt few players and gm's (or keepers) can say that it is not an attractive hardback.

d20 Cthulhu is no less dangerous than Chaosium's game, although players WILL have an easier time churning through cultists and other adversaries due to all of the combat feats in d20. As for the mythos, these monsters have so much damage reduction that it would take a rocket launcher down one's throat to usually annoy them. In the meantime, just like in the old game, your character gets messily eaten and digested.

It's all in the quality of the rules, the willingness of the players and the competency of the GM. I myself am an old school D&D player and DM who loves the vulnerability of the game and how your players cannot under most circumstances fight their way out of an encounter. My current players are D&Ders who like to see their characters live and grow, so although they like the imagery and fear factor of CoC, they don't like losing their precious little creations. So we don't play much. I'm bummed.

So that's the face value of it. The game introduces the community to something they might not have been exposed to, while at the same time not ostracizing D&D gamers they had already roped in. When we started playing 3rd edition D&D it took a good year and a half to get used to the rules. It might take some dedicated CoC players just as long too. If you're an original version player of CoC and never had a complaint or cared for a more robust combat system/core book, then there's no need to buy the d20 version. Otherwise, for new players, i say jump in and enjoy a delightful and terrifying experience.
Cthulhu loathes you...

I never liked D&D 3rd Edition; it was too rules-heavy for me. I've played Chaoisum's Call of Cthulhu since the second edition way back in '85. I never thought I would want this book, but I am a complete convert. Why? The way the d20 Call of Cthulhu rules handle the Mythos.

Instead of presenting a dogmatic listing, essentially a bestiary, for the "higher powers" of the Mythos, guidelines are given for how to capture a Lovecraftian feel in your game. The Mythos powers are handled the way Lovecraft did (as argued by ST Joshi) - as plot devices. This section alone returns the wonder and mystery to Cthulhu gaming and is worth the price tag.

Other highlights? The scenario and setting advice are excellent. The presentation and art are topnotch. Spells are much deadlier and riskier to cast than in BRP Cthulhu. Tome attributes are not set in stone, letting the Keeper make them as powerful as he wants. Reading tomes is also more story-based than before, with some creepy side effects for failure.

As for the d20 rules? Honestly, they really aren't all that different than the BRP rules. They ARE more detailed, but do have their own internal logic. As long as you aren't afraid to dig in and try something new, the system plays just fine.

Simple conversion notes are included for the original system and the GM Screen will have a more detailed system for conversion apparently. Between converting existing books and new d20 Cthulhu releases, there will be plenty of support for this system.

All in all, this game has put new life into my Cthulhu gaming.

This book is a good translation of BRP CoC to the d20 rules. It contains everything you need to run a game - there are explanations of the Mythos and its creatures, tips on running adventures, the spells, etc, and it is written really well. During the conversion, they have added a lot of combat/weapons rules which are rarely neccessary in a Cthulhu game, but they don't get in way.
But there are more possibilities - if you are even considering the possibility of running a 1900-2000 investigation/crime campaign, then this rulebook will be really useful for you- it's elegant class-less system, and d20 combat ruleas are suited really well for any 20th century action.
And, you get conspiracy ideas, supernatural monsters, and some very balanced magic as a bonus, so you can lure your unsuspecting gang of investigators in a true Mythos adventure, and interleave dangerous Mythos adventures with pure investigation and action adventures, without the supernatural.
I am using this book for modern campaigns, as it seems far superior to d20 Modern and Spycraft d20.

I had the Chaosium Cthulhu book for a few years when someone recommended that I get the WotC D20 Cthulhu book for additional ideas. After buying and reading it, I feel that it stands well on its own. So I won't be reviewing it in comparison to Chaosium's BRP book, or recommend which one is better, but just to review it as it stands.

First, the externals. It is a nice book - a solid hardback, with art to look like a grimoire or other tome. I like a sturdy rulesbook that structurally feels in flavor for the game it is made for. The interior art is in color (!) and is mostly very good, with the chapter heading paintings looking particularly realistic. The layout is readable, the paper feels dependable, and the page coloration changes subtly by chapter (for quick flipping). In short, it looks and feels like a book you might like to own (sometimes I feel guilty about owning ugly books).

Next, I'll note that the mechanics are included. That's good, because I don't intend to buy any more d20 products (wait, that's a lie. I have already bought another d20 book to use with this one; I definitely wouldn't have if the d20 rules weren't spelled out). Everything you need to know about generating a character, advancing in levels, acquiring skills, and combat is included (which I didn't necessarily expect when I bought it - I guess it's a true stand-alone). It was difficult to sort through, and not terribly well organized. I assume that the mechanics were squeezed in so that more could be spent on Cthulhu than on d20. I did feel that my old AD&D 2E book was more clear (not saying the mechincs were better, just that I understood the presentation better after reading it). Feats and skill ranks are new to me, so I can't really review that section other than to say that it's there. I personally think that for all the rules, tables, and modifiers, the DM is just going to pick a dice check number that matches the difficulty he/she thinks the situations should have relative to your skill, so why bother with all the crunchiness? But I'm not a big shot like Monte Cook or John Tynes, and this is d20, so I'll take their word for it.

Guns and other equipment is covered in excellent detail - nice to have it all in one place.

Magic - tomes are covered very well, and even BRP Cthulhu people might benefit from reading the section on how sanity loss from reading Mythos books occurs. Specific tomes are covered, along with all the spells from the BRP game.

Creatures - all the major critters have entries. I think the stats are a little silly, and not consistemt with descriptions or at appropriate levels relative to other monsters. Also, given the deadliness of some monsters' descriptions, the challenge ratings seem much too low.

The Mythos - the idea of Lovecraft's vision is explained. Also, each decade is explained in terms of the progression of the End Times, and how each decade might be played along with movie and literature references that are appropriate for inspiration.

How to run a game - this is probably the most useful chapter in any game book I've ever bought. There are 40 pages on how to create backstory, create good horror, keep a game going, and please your players. I wish all gmaes came with this kind of explanation about what are the elements of a good game with lots of examples. Even if you never play d20, this is great for any other horror game.

The two scenarios are well-designed with plenty of investigation that is also accessible to the players. All useful details are included for what may be a first-time GM.

At the back are a Monstrous Compendium of deities for use if you want in a D&D game. I feel like they need to be in the book, and the stats hardly matter anyway. There is also a conversion table for BRP and d20, as well as a bibliography of Cthulhu books to read.

Excellent presentation, excellent material, useful to more than just d20 players but contains everything needed to play d20. An excellent buy for anyone in horror gaming, I think.

Okay, I'll be honest. I do prefer the original Chaosium CoC to Wizards Of The Coast's adaptation. What I supremely loved about the original Call Of Cthulhu was that knowledge that reading that obscure occult tome was NOT a good idea and that nothing at all was what it seemed. Yes, characters either died or went insane, but that's what made it fun. The original Call Of Cthulhu was about the journey rather than the end. The new d20 Call Of Cthulhu takes away from that paranoid feel of the original game, making it a bit more combat-intensive and less mood-oriented.

However, let's be honest here. It's the GM that creates the mood for the game. It's all about imagination, baby. It's easy to create a more mood-oriented d20 CoC campaign - the book even gives pointers. The rulebook is quite adaptable, including tips on incorporating the Mythos creatures, deities, and Sanity rules into a D&D Campaign (I imagine that they can be added to a d20Modern campaign as well).

If you already have Chaosium's core CoC rulebook, there's no need to get this unless you want to incorporate the Mythos into D&D. If you're a D&D3E fan and don't own Chaosium's rulebook and/or have never played Call Of Cthulhu but want to learn it in a familiar framework, you can do far, far worse than WotC's adaptation of a classic game. The d20 adaptation features gorgeous artwork, a recommended reading list, and even adaptations to older CoC supplements.

Enjoy!

To be honest I don't know why people hold the original rules for the Call of Cthulhu game in such high regard. In my opinion the system has good points, and many extremely bad ones. The original game focused far to much on killing characters. Seriously, I have read many Call of Cthulhu adventures where one of the selling points was percentage of Player death (some of which were 80% plus). I'm sorry maybe I have been made soft by White Wolf, but I enjoy creating a character and watching him grow. Now I don't believe PC's shouldn't die, I just don't like when half the time I play, or more, I have to make up a new character. Maybe that doesn't fit the "Cthulhu Mythos," but almost ALL of Lovecraft's stories didn't feature reoccuring characters so he could kill them off as he saw fit it didn't matter. I enjoy having something of a fighting chance. Also I hated the old systems cuz a few of the stats were generated with a 3d6 roll, and others were a 4d6 roll. And I especially hated the Stat of Education. Say I wanted to make a doctor and I roll a 5 on Education. Well tough luck, I barely graduated high school. I think it is stupid that a stat determines my background (Like those history generators in some RPG's where your character can die in childhood... stupid).
D20 Call of Cthulhu works great if you are running a more "swashbuckling" game using the Cthulhu Mythos... such as Delta Green (which is what I'm using it for). Where you want characters who will on average survive more than three adventures. Also the book is of a better quality than Chaosium, in every department, organization, art, explanation of the rules. Frankly I love it, because now I can run the Call of Cthulhu I want to run. Where my players could survive (if they are smart)for most of the campaign (Which should run about 32 sessions). If I was running under the old rules, the players would make up about 16 characters EACH during the campaign, and that is silly.