Customer Discussions > Left 4 Dead 2 - Xbox 360 forum

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Initial post: Jun 4, 2009 5:09:32 PM PDT yesterday featured a story that people are actually mad that this sequel is coming out so soon after the first one. Unbelievable. It is annoying enough as it is that we typically have to wait 3..4...5...sometimes more YEARS for a sequel and the complainers are complaining that this one is coming out so soon. Left4Dead is a great game but you get sick of it after a while. Then they had a free downloadable content and that was fun for a little while but it gets tiring. The complainers are complaining that Valve (the maker) didn't support the first game with free content long enough before putting out the second one. Hello, they are in business to make money. Manufacturers cannot just keep rolling out DLC (downloadable content) for free. Then people complain about the DLC that has a price on it. It is totally ridiculous.

I'll be happy to pay for this game and have a whole new story. I would have even paid for the FREE DLC they GAVE us. I cannot believe the views people have on videogames in the want something for nothing category. I've spent over $30 on a Bluray movie which if you watch let's say three times over the course of your life is still only 6 hours of entertainment. On the same token I have played the videogame Fallout 3 and all its DLC, grand total of $90 out the door for a total of 350 hours of entertainment. That is barely triple the cost of a Bluray movie, yet it is almost 130x the amount of entertainment hours compared to a movie you might watch 3 times. Videogames are actually the best bang for your buck of any form of entertainment.

A new videogame runs about $60. Let's say you buy a family videogame like Fusion Frenzy or something. You can get hours if not DAYS of entertainment out of that game for $60. Take that same family and $60 will not cover their visit to the movies with popcorn and a drink and that is only 3 hours of entertainment or a day at a theme park, to which $60 covers just one of their tickets to the park for the day if they are lucky and at a cheap park (certainly not Disney).

I can't wait for L4D2!

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2009 10:02:09 AM PDT
E. Segal says:
If you want to pay full price for an expanded version of a game you already own that started development right after the original product was released even though valve promised continued support for the first title be my guest.

I won't be buying it or any more valve products.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2009 10:09:43 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 5, 2009 10:10:19 AM PDT
How do you figure it is an expanded version of the game? It is a whole new game. It is a new story with new characters and new levels. It is a sequel, not an expansion. So what if they started developing it right after the first? They filmed all three Lord of the Rings movies back to back but you still had to pay to see each one. I wish more games would continue work on the sequels right away.

I will certainly buy this game and look forward to more Half Life games by Valve as well.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2009 12:18:13 PM PDT
E. Segal says:
They stated in interviews that they were aware the content of L4D was abit limited. Valve has had a tradtion of supporting software long after release. They had big plans for releasing new maps and weapons as well as changing the matchmaking system. Then it takes forever for bug fixes and even longer for the survival pack which was the first update and added almost nothing.
Then like two months after they start selling L4D: survival edition to make extra bucks they announce a totally new sequel out of the blue. L4D has been out for less then a year. None of the promised content has been released, instead we are getting a full priced sequel which is running on the same engine and is nothing but a glorified DLC.
We are getting some new weapons, mostly melee weapons, and of course the new campaigns and characters. It's an expansion not a sequel. It will divide the community. I'm sorry that you can't see my point.

Posted on Jun 5, 2009 1:45:50 PM PDT

I see your point but I don't agree at all.

The survival edition is just a newer press of the Left 4 Dead that includes the survival pack. They aren't expecting owners of the original release to go out and buy it again. Everything extra on the new edition is FREE on Live for owners of the first pressing of the disc. I think Valve has been generous giving away the survival pack on DLC. Anybody else would have charged for it for the first few months.

I have got more than my $60 worth out of Left4Dead and The Orange Box by Valve. The only other games where I can really say I got my money's worth are the Halo games (thanks to multiplayer), Mass Effect, and Fallout3. Most games don't compare to those games as far as the great number of hours of fun. I played through games like Resident Evil 5, Killzone, Uncharted, Resistance 1&2 and that was that. Left4Dead had replay ability and The Orange Box is five games for the price of one.

I am sorry Valve got your hopes up for so much more. They exceeded my expectations with Left4Dead.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2009 8:25:41 AM PDT
L. Jensen says:
I think you're making a big mistake by comparing L4D2 to a blu-ray disc or DVD's. It's not the same media, there aren't the same standards. If you're going to compare a game, you should compare it to either a comparable game or to games the studio has released previously. What grieves people so is that Valve has a reputation and with this new release it's like there's suddenly a new sheriff in town and he's a money grubbing douche. This came out of left field for a lot of people. Since we're doing quasi-analogies here, let's compare it to GameStop. A store that used to have a great reputation; they had what you wanted when you wanted it. Then suddenly you needed to preorder everything and if you came in on the day of a release wanting a game, not only did they not have it, they would lie to you and say that nobody else would have it because everyone needs to preorder everywhere. It was insulting to the customers intelligence- especially when they could go down the street to a Best Buy and pick up the game from a stack of them.

While you can't just go down the street and pick up another Valve game, they're rare and precious- they're not the only game in town either. It's their amazing reputation that keeps people coming back for more and gives them a die hard rabid fan base. Going against that reputation and offering a sort of half cooked game a year after the first one came out is a big WTF for the community.

Sure people are going to complain no matter what but maybe you should think about whether the complaints are valid. If they want more money, they could probably just say, hey, we want more money to make better games that you'll love and people will just give it to them. You don't want to betray the fans trust in a money play, that's how you lose business.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2009 10:25:32 AM PDT
L. Jensen-

My comparison is based on entertainment received for money spent. You could spend $100,000 and have your favorite musical group perform a concert for you and your friends for example. That would be a lot of money but that may very well be the best memory of your life. Some people are interested in spending $25Million to hop aboard a spacecraft because they can afford it and that will be their best memory of their life.

But I am discussing raw, redundant forms of fun here. I watch movies and I play games. Those are two basic hobbies that I enjoy. There is nothing exciting like the once in a lifetime trip around the world, so I am breaking it down into how much value I am getting for time spent. I could compare it to many things but chose to compare videogames to movies. Like I said, I buy a movie, at most I will get 6-10 hours of fun out of it for $25-$35 for a Bluray. On the other hand, I have bought videogames for $60 that gave me well over 100 hours of fun. Yet I have bought videogames that I have played for two hours, got mad that I wasted the money, shelved the game and never played it again.

I certainly got my monies worth out of Left4Dead and The Orange Box. In my book, that says a lot for Valve. I am actually impressed they are releasing the sequel almost exactly a year after the first one. I wish more game companies would do that. Unfortunately, with this insane and confusing uproar that the game is coming out too soon, I think gaming companies may now hold off on releasing a game they have ready, as not to upset the fans.

Really, this uproar just boils down to a bunch of juvenile minded game players that don't understand how capitalism works. Companies are in business to make money, not to make your life a little more entertaining. They make your life entertaining to make money. They don't make games to make you happy. They make games to make you happy to make money. It is all about making money. Do yo work? If so, would you like to be paid more? Sure you would, and so would the companies making games. If they can ride the wave and release a sequel while it is fresh in the heads of 500,000 kids and adults across the country, good for them! It is foolish and unrealistic to think that they would just keep releasing DLC for free and "support" it for many years. In my opinion, "supporting" their product is fixing bugs (which they will continue to do), and replacing your bad disc under warranty. Supporting is not giving free DLC indefinitely. If the product doesn't work, they need to fix it. That is all they owe us. They don't owe us free levels and characters beyond the release that you willfully purchased. So there is a list of 20,000 and growing that say they will boycot the game. If I knew you face to face I would bet you $100 Left4Dead2 outsells Left4Dead. So much for the boycott.

I am really sick of hearing about the boycott everyday. Sites like are plastering up stories everyday. 95% or or more of the boycott crowd will buy this game and we all know that.

As for what you said about Gamestop, I am not sure what is going on in your local store. I have bought several games on the Tuesday release and never been told they didn't have it and I have never pre-ordered. I never pre-order anything. It is really stupid. Best Buy, Target, and other stores all have it on the Tuesday release. Gamestop would be stupid not to have it. I'd just move on to the next store and buy it. Yes, I understand they push the pre-order thing, but I have never had a problem like I said. Of all the people I know, I only know one guy that pre-orders everything. I don't know if he buys into the hype or what. We could walk in together and I'll get my game too.

Now, I am annoyed with Gamestop in the aspect that they illegally open the games and let the employees play them and bring them back and sell them as new. That is a whole different story all together. But they have had everything I have ever gone in for on the Tuesday release.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2009 11:55:54 AM PDT
L. Jensen says:
I see what you're saying in entertainment value- but it's still like comparing apples and oranges. Especially since I'm also invested in both games and movies but I see them as completely separate. At a bare bones, you get x amount of hours for y amount of entertainment, okay sure. But if you're going to take in all the variables lets be honest- a majority of the people are still buying DVDs and could care less about BluRay. You're being the person who's paying $100,000 for the concert by buying the high definition movie in that scenario. You're also paying $20 extra dollars to get that movie the day it comes out instead of waiting two months and buying it for $10 when it comes down to it's regular price. It takes games much longer to come down in price.

So in this $100 dollar bet that's happening, when exactly is L4D2 going to outsell L4D? Well I'm hoping (since it'll make everyone happy!) that it'll be when L4D2 comes out with something so amazingly awesome that all of the naysayers are forced to shut their naysaying mouths. However, would it be the same win, bet-wise, if L4D2 only outsold L4D because it was forced to come down in price for being lame, while L4D maintained it's higher price because it's a better game? People will give it a shot because hey, why not, it's $20 and not still $50, like the original. That would be a sad way to win that bet.

Also, just because a game developer comes out with a game a year later isn't a good or a bad thing. People complaining about it coming out so soon are ridiculous and people praising Valve for it coming out so soon are just as ridiculous. What I'm saying is if it's going to come out whenever (a year or ten years later), they need to show something so awesome that it smacks you in the face and you want it to come out right away. I think most people are questioning- why? Show us something that justifies paying full price, something that says this is a fully cooked game.

Do you have a job? Do you think people will pay you more for barely doing it? If you were like "hey, I did that one good job five years ago and sure I got promoted and haven't done anything since then but you should promote me again." People aren't like that, they're not going to pay you a crap load of money because you're resting on your laurels. (hopefully.) They're one of the hardest working game outfits out there, so when or if they slack they'll fall harder than others. I think people are also mostly confused because it's not like Valve is pumping out a Madden every year. They're thoughtful. It's hard to see the thought here, they need to show us something that makes any idea of a 'petition' or whatever vanish. Otherwise there's no way it'll outsell the original unless it's so completely different it should have a different name and can stand on it's own entirely.

What I'm saying is- if it were someone different, people wouldn't be in such a nerd rage.
Also, I don't know much about this petition but it sounds like you should start reading a different website because that's just goofy! Committing entirely one way or the other is silly and people always recant when that happens.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2009 1:11:44 PM PDT
L Jensen-

Actually, the petition is pretty common and the reason I started this thread. It isn't just It has been all over the place since the announcement of L4D2. Most of us complain, and rightfully so, that games take forever between sequels. At least now days with DLC for sale (such as my favorite game and all the DLC, Fallout 3), we have something to feed us between say Resident Evil 5 and Resident Evil 6. I am a huge Mass Effect fan as well. Mass Effect announced from the start it was going to be a trilogy. It just so happens my wife and I will have birthed TWO children between Mass Effect 1 and 2. That is too long. Mass Effect only came out with one DLC. It cost money and it was pretty poopy. But don't you think they were working on Mass Effect 2 that whole time? I think so. But should we be mad that they were focusing all their efforts on Mass Effect 2 instead of Mass Effect DLC? Nobody cares because so much time passed? What if they came out with Mass Effect 2 a year later instead of 3? That would be too soon and there would be an uproar?

The sole purpose of my thread here was to criticize the fans that are complaining about Left4Dead 2 coming out so soon after years and years of complaining at how long it takes a sequel to surface. They should be happy!

The only thing that annoys me about Valve is that we are still waiting on Half Life 2 Episode 3. I'd like them to finish that story. It doesn't sound like they are even working on it. Again... too long between sequels.

Posted on Jun 10, 2009 6:47:13 PM PDT
L. Jensen says:
Again, I think you're missing the point of the outrage. It's not that it's only a year later. It's that it's a year later and they're coming out with a game, slapping a bow on it and instead of calling it Ms. Pacman, they're calling it give me $60. Most of the people are upset because from what they've seen it isn't a new game, it's the same game with kitschy crap. Cool, melee weapons. Those had better be some exciting weapons to justify a whole game. I mean, if you look at Half Life and the seven hundred years between when that came out and when HL2 came out- the second one was a totally new engine. Why does this have to be its own game? Why can't it be L4D episode one, melee expedition or something. Paid DLC... people will grumble but they won't start a riot. You hybrid the special zombies, give a burly dude an axe and say, yes, this is a totally different and unique game? Please.

I hope you aren't a grandfather by the time the Mass Effect games end.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2009 8:43:22 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 10, 2009 8:43:49 PM PDT
I think the outrage is mainly that it is too soon and they wanted more free stuff for the old one first. I don't think most are mad that it isn't unique enough from the first one like you. I understand what you are saying but think it is different enough. Look at the basic breakdown of the game. It is about as basic as it gets. A zombie horror movie video game. It is laid out like a few different horror movies with the basic concept of surviving and a rescue at the end. The difference with part two is that it is one continues path, one continues story, with somewhat backstory on the characters. I would love to know the history of Bill (my favorite character of the first one) but they give you no background. What about the "sexy" Zoey? What is her story. Louis, what is his story? Professional minority in a shirt and tie, probably a workaholic, suddenly thrust into a zombie world. We know nothing about these people's background. They are changing that with the new one.

My personal opinion is that it is certainly different enough. Maybe it will be less of a game. I played Resistance 1/2 on my PS3 back to back and I did not enjoy 2 as much as one. I liked the weapon system better in the first one. Maybe Left4Dead2 won't be as good as one. We'll see. But I don't think 3 or 4 years would make it any better.

I really hope they get back to Half Life after this one. I am only recently new to Orange Box. I bought it over a year ago and probably didn't pull it off the shelf until 3 months ago and I played Half Life 2, Episode 1, Episode 2, and Portal right in a row. I am already sick of waiting for Episode 3 to finish the story. I cannot imagine how early fans of Half Life 2 have felt waiting.

Maybe a year is kind of fast because we are so used to waiting forever between games. Let's call that one extreme and 4 or 6 years the other. I'll take the faster extreme with any game.

Posted on Jun 11, 2009 7:03:09 AM PDT
Valve responds to the now 25,000 boycotters.... hope this clears up some of your concerns...

Posted on Jun 11, 2009 2:06:22 PM PDT
N. C. Hill says:
I agree valve wants to make some money of course, but my main problem is this game seems more like an add on or an expansion than a totally new version or sequel. But yeah splitting the LFD community like this is just plain crappy. If they wanted to really make people happy, they would just release all this new content as an expansion to the first game and keep the community together and yes they can even charge me for it, im not looking for freebies. I don't have a problem finding people to play with right now, but after this "sequel" comes out, who knows whether everyone will abandon the first LFD in favor of going on to the next or maybe the community will be half and half, regardless its just rotten. Im not saying getting a sequel within a year is bad, but for this kind of multiplayer game that is dependent on having 8 people per game to enjoy there is no reason to split the community so soon. Single player games are a different story.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2009 6:11:18 PM PDT
NC Hill- Did you read the link I pasted above answering most of your questions from Valve itself. The community won't be divided. Will there still be AS MANY people playing multiplayer? Of course not, but by then the regular players would have moved on anyway. But if you look, there are still people playing Halo 2 matchmaking and 3 has been out forever. And you cannot really say that it is more of an add on or expansion when you haven't even seen the final game.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 13, 2009 12:29:44 PM PDT
Mr Edwards says:
seriously who the heck cares. so many people just sit on websites and argue about how much their spending on games and yet thats all they do. now go ahead and attempt to argue that point by saying " oh well my life dosen't revolve around games, i just play one every now and again. " sorry but i'm going to have to call BS in the biggest way possible. to be a "diehard" fan of a company, know and or give a crap about the feelings of other fans alike, or to even know the story on why 25,000 people like your self went to valve and argued, to basically prove your point makes you a gamer. not a bad thing but that statement is going to prove my point. now, that all being said... its just like gas prices, housing market, and domestic cars..... your screwed. shut up and bite the bullet like everyone else and buy the game. or attempt to make a stand against a multi million dollar company and not buy it, either way i don't care. just drives me wild that i click on this link to see a possible release date or maybe some more info on the game, to see more and more people just sitting on here and crying about video games. you know in the 1800's people woke up, farmed, went to work, came home and farmed and daily chores, put their kids to bed, and went to sleep. just be freaking happy you have the time to even play the game let alone have the money laying around to spend on them. if video game prices drive you this wild, go to wal-mart get a 15 dollar fishing license, a 20 dollar Taz looney toon fishing pole and 2 dollars in night crawlers and go fishing for a year. but please save me and the other people that read these types of threads some time and quit crying.

Posted on Jun 15, 2009 2:14:45 AM PDT
Allen says:
I think L4D was a piece of garbage. sure it was cool and fun... but it was entirely pointless! No story, Sub-par graphics, not to mention they aren't even zombies! It was a bunch of angry crack heads and monsters. Where did a fat goo shooting guy come from? What zombie movie was THAT from?

The game was half a--ed, and they're already coming out with another half a--ed sequel before the other one even has a chance to even go down in price. It's basically screwing the consumer into buying it at full price. It's like valves thinking "well, we gave you four for the price of one in the orange box... so here's HALF a game for full price... TWICE!"

Screw Valve, when's Dead Rising 2 coming out?

Posted on Jun 15, 2009 5:37:23 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 15, 2009 5:39:40 AM PDT
Actually Al, the price has gone down on the first one. As of today at least, I see the price point is set at $39.99. That is $20 off the release price... next stop $29.99 and then it will fade away at $19.99. Target has it the cheapest right now for $37 this week in store (maybe online too).

Anyway, you bring up some valid points about the story being pointless. It isn't everybody's game. I actually liked it little at first but then it grew on me and I especially liked survivor mode. My only gripe was that they pulled the survivor mode achievements because it was given away for free. I worked very hard to get over 11 minutes at the lighthouse with my team. Surely there should have been an achievement for hitting gold.

But, the story being pointless and all is another perk of part 2. They have made it one long story in chapters as opposed to four independent horror movies. You can play them by the chapter, but it is getting across the south this time with a little background on the characters.

Ultimately, we all have to decide if we want to buy it or not. I will buy it and play it for probably a month on and off and then shelf it. I'll get a kick out of some things. I loved the witch and the music in the first one. I mean, it certainly isn't going to be the game of the year to me. I am not looking forward to it more than anything. I look forward to it as one of the titles I will buy when it comes out. Nothing special. If anything, all this hype will help the game.

Actually, all this hype is reminding me they need to finish Half Life 2 with an Episode 3. I really hope they are working on it. It sounds like they let their employees pick the next project and they picked L4D2. I don't know if that is really true or not. How many jobs have any of you had where the direction of the company was decided by a few piss ant programmers? This isn't google people! The leadership, MBAs (and lawyers haha) make the business decisions with input from the director of programming. The director of programming doesn't walk into the board room at Valve and say, "OK, I talked to the guys, they want to shelf Half Life 2 and work on Left4Dead for a few sequels," and the CEO and the other biggies say, "OK, Left4Dead it is." Nope, It went down more like this. The meeting took place. The sales team laid out their humbly impressive, respectable, sales figures for the last few years. He presented his Power Point presentation and got to 2008 where we see a big spike in sales, surpassing their wildest dreams, even Orange Box. Then, the heads of Valve turned to the director of programming and said, "It is on you pal, get your team out there and get us Left4Dead2...... with a November release." The programming director asks "November of 2011, or 2010, because 2010 will be pushing it." The CEO pounds the table and says, "November of this year! 2009! Now get outta here!" I think that sounds more like a videogame boardroom than "The employees pick their next product." Give me a break. These days, restaurants rarely have a cook's special of the day on the menu, and if they do, the cook didn't choose it. Management makes these business decisions.

The only way I would say that the programmers decided what they are working on next is if they have enough pull, like, the head programmers founded Valve and they are business guys/programming guys. That is possible. But this is very much based on sales figures too. If Left4Dead bombed, they wold not be doing a sequel.

Posted on Jun 16, 2009 12:15:17 AM PDT
Allen says:
Everything is pretty fun about the game, the multiplayer is great (when you aren't with idiots), but I sold mine long before any word of dlc. I looked at gamestop yesterday and the price their was still 59.99. It almost seems like L4D2 is what the 1st one should have been, I really do kind of want it just for their being a story... but I just refuse to shell out another 60 bucks on what the first 60 SHOULD have got me.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 16, 2009 5:58:47 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 16, 2009 6:21:11 AM PDT
Gamestop is still selling it for $59.99 still? I do believe a price point is set and they are supposed to follow it. They can go below suggested retail but not higher. I mean, the price was just literally lowered this week so I'll bet Gamestop is taking advantage of the people that don't yet know of the price drop. They get a credit back for the lower wholesale cost if they start selling for $40 like they should. I guess when it comes to GS, their whole pricing structure is screwed up when the suggested retail is lowered. They go $5 under for a used game so they would have to lower those $55 L4D used untils to $35. But I don't think they are paying the customers turning in $35, so they are still getting a profit (even though it is thinner). Gamestop is pretty shady but they pretty much have everything.

Should you get two for the fact that it meets your needs as a game? That all depends on what else is released in November. Do you have PS3 and like God of War? GAW3 is coming out. That new Halo ODST which is mainly just new muliplayer. I have got so many titles lately that I looked forward to but am having trouble getting into. I mean, I'll play 'em out, but I feel like I am straining a little bit. Dead Space... I got a bit in and saved and put it up for now.... Red Faction... not bad, just realized getting through the first section of the game that I am not currently in the mood for that type of a game. I will go back on it when I am ready for a smash everything around you action game that is frustrating because you die easily and then have to go way back to distant checkpoints. For my PS3 I have Infamous. It has so much hype and I felt like blowing some money on a PS3 game (The PS3 fanboys call me a 360 fanboy but I own both systems and do buy some PS3 games). The game seems spidermanish in the jumping and climbing but there is a story (for what its worth). I have such a hard time with PS3 titles. While the graphics are better, I usually feel the story is lesser. I am trying to get over this but I honestly believe the 360 has better games. So none of those games are really doing it for me these last couple weeks. I am doing a little bit of each. Oh, and I did go out of my way to find Sacred 2 Fallen Angel. I started it and it seems like it is going to require a day or so to really get into it. A dedicated day. I loved Baulder's Gate so I think I'll be fine once I get moving. Just this last week or ten days of all things I have really gotten into Castle Crashers. I downloaded like 10 recommended demos of Xbox arcade games and nothing (Catan and other strategy games included) floated my boat. But Castle Crashers was cool and I bought the full thing for $15. Wow... I sure have gotten my $15 worth! Then there was a $2 add on which contains weapons and a new character. So $17 and a lot of fun... I even got the wife playing it with me. Surely has replay value. I am finally burning on it and I am going to try Call of Duty World at War today..... I don't even own Modern Warfare but World at War was on sale and I thought I'd give it a whirl. Looks really cool. I just need something to sink my teeth into and have a ton of games as mentioned and some more that I need to finish. I don't know if I am getting pickier or what. I am probably buying too many games in search for something I can delve into and escape for a while.

New Fallout 3 DLC comes out next Tuesday. I have a busy work week but as far as gaming, everything else comes to a hold with other games until I fully explorer and finish Point Lookout on Fallout 3 (along with all achievements.) I cannot wait!

As far as Left4Dead... I buy so many games that just don't stick. I am going to end up getting Gamefly because I am sick of buying games I cannot get into or finish. Sometimes I find a hidden gem like Left4Dead and the survivor mode. If anything keeps me entertained as long as Left4Dead has, it is a winner worth buying. Just my opinion.

Posted on Jun 16, 2009 8:07:05 PM PDT
Allen says:
Yeah.... If it comes down to L4D 2 or Dead Rising 2... I did almost 100% of what there was to do in Dead Rising, so I KNOW I'll get a whole lot of time out of the 2nd. I think in the end, i'll get l4d2 used at gamestop, and return it before the 7 days is up.

Red Faction Gurilla wasn't that good... maybe my hopes were WAY too high... i LOVED the old ones, and I like Saints Row, so I figured it'd be good... I mean I played the demo for it like 90 times and loved it more and more each time... the actual game though, was EXTREMELY boring and tedious. Like you mentioned about when you die (eventually you upgrade armor), but still, you die, then have to go SO far away (unless your in a mission, which you can restart)... and I was kind of hoping for big destructible citys on mars too, I think. I was hoping for skyscrapers and maybe some planes. I'm not evil, that'd just be amazing... can you imagine... flying a plane towards a building... parachute out and was the destruction ensue....

In the end, it just seems like a glorified tech demo for the geo-mod 2... which I was thinking that, then saw a review saying the same exact thing.

Kinda got off topic.. I guess I'm just sick of paying 60 bucks for games that are really not worth it. I havn't played multiplayer on RF:G yet (im at my girlfriends house for 2 months and she doesn't have anything to hook it up with), I'm hoping that'll save it...

Posted on Jun 17, 2009 4:39:39 AM PDT
M. Turner says:
They said that they might put the old campaign in left 4 dead 2, so it might be a little different with the new engine running it.

Posted on Jun 17, 2009 5:46:44 AM PDT
M Turner- are you saying that they are throwing in the four movies (mini campaigns) from part one as extra stuff in addition to everything else on two? That would be good for those that haven't bought it yet and I suppose the AI is supposed to be smarter with the new engine running it. I just hope they don't have any achievements attached to the old story on the new disc. If they just port those over, like killing the tank solo, it will be a pain to do them all again and the old tricks me not work this time around (like killing your computer teammates and louring Tank to the closed safe room door and shooting him through the safe room door!). Anybody seen the video of somebody killing tank alone on the hardest mode going up and down the escalator stairs on Youtube? Good stuff.

Posted on Jun 23, 2009 12:02:02 AM PDT
Noah Weiner says:
My 2 cents -

The developers at Valve get to chose what project they work on, and they really liked working L4D so a lot of people went to work on the sequel. More people = faster development time. Plus, knowing Valve "November" really means "sometime next summer".

I do think that they should make this cheaper for people who own the first one, since there's really not too much new stuff (although keep in mind that next summer *ahem* November is still enough time for them to add more onto it).

Posted on Jun 23, 2009 4:47:31 AM PDT
noah weiner-

all the print ads and everything say November 17th.... I think they just about have it ready now. Valve will release this game on time. There is a difference between saying "we'll release it Q4 '09" and "it is being released Nov 17." Having a date means everything is beyond the stage of getting it setup to press the discs, the packaging, the distribution, etc. It isn't so easy to change it now. Yeah, sometimes these things get up a few weeks at this point because of distribution channels or a problem getting the discs pressed but it won't be six months. Six months means they weren't done with the game yet. We are beyond that.

I think we are really in danger in this country. So many people expect things. You've heard the term "gimme generation." It started with the generations just after mine. It was those born in the early 80's and increasingly worse as it went on. These people expect everything in life. They think they have a "right" to healthcare. They never worked for anything or earned it and this is largely the fault of society. These kids expect this game free or as a cheaper DLC and justify it by saying it is less than a year since the first one. They don't understand capitalism at all I guess. But that is the way they see the world these days. They've been given so much and never give back. So when something doesn't go their way they cry foul.

Face reality folks. Video game companies are out to make money like anybody else. Deal with it. Valve isn't Apple. They aren't going to bend over for you and give you a discount on the next I-phone because you bought the first I-phone and this one does more! So what so what so what! I'm buying the game!

Posted on Jun 29, 2009 11:00:42 AM PDT
Angie says:
BLUF: ( Bottom line up Front)
The Video game company is out to make money and i for one will pay it. I love LFD and im sure i will love LFD2. I agree that after months of playing it over and over it gets old so i can not wait to get it. in fact i already have it in my Amazon cart. GET HIM OFF MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE GET HIM OFF MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Initial post:  Jun 4, 2009
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Left 4 Dead 2 - Xbox 360 by Electronic Arts (Xbox 360)
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