Steve Harvey calls himself a Christian man yet tells women don't give up the "cookie" for at least 90 days! He is encouraging a woman to give up the sex rather than having her to remain faithful to God and WAIT until marriage!
Ladies, don't do it! Wait! Cultivate a friendship and have the man put a (wedding) ring on the finger FIRST- if he claims to be a Christian. If he's not a Christian, then you have no business with him at all!
True godly men will wait for the cookie if he really loves a woman. Men who demand sex before marriage are selfish and don't care about putting God's principles first.
I question Steve Harvey's commitment to God when he's married several times and cheated on his last wife. No, we're not perfect, but I would respect Steve Harvey more if he was a man after God's own heart and urged people to follow after God instead of urging folks to break His commandments to us!
So ladies, do NOT spend your money on a book that teaches you to sin against God.
Geez! The man doesn't say "wait 90 days and then go buck wild with the sex!" The book says "if you're gonna do it anyway, make him wait for it at least 90 days."
And Steve actually agrees with what you said. He says that if a man really wants you, he'll wait for the cookie. If you don't have the book, stop in a bookstore, pick up the book, and read pages 152 & 153.
And as far as him being married three times, what's that got to do with anything? Doesn't the Christian faith believe in forgiveness and getting right with God? Maybe he wasn't a Christian before, but he saw the light, got saved, and is working to turn his life around. Isn't that what Christianity teaches? That all have the opportunity to be saved?
Such harsh judgements from a "Christian" woman. If you disagree with him or dislike him, say that. But don't judge and misrepresent the man or his words. You don't know him, or his life.
BTW, no, I am not on SH's payroll, in case you're wondering.
A. Smith, having sex even ONCE outside of marriage is against God's described will for any man or woman. You don't have to be "buck wild" with sex to be considered promiscuous in God's eyes. A godly man doesn't wait for the woman to decide if she's going to wait or not, he'll take the initiative and say NO himself!
Steve Harvey gives the Christian woman the impression that it's only up to her as the man will be the constant "wolf" in waiting, waiting for the woman to give up the cookie. He's actually saying to the men, "guys, wait for 90 days and then go for it if she gives you the green light!" Uh, no, not for the true Christian man.
Either you are a Christian, wholly committed to doing things God's way, or you are a fake. Calling all real Christians to take a stand and romance one another God's way!
I'm thankful that I know real men of God who don't act like worldly men when it comes to sex.
Oh, as far as Steve being married three times before, it's important because if he never resolved the issues from his previous marriages, then his present marriage will just be next in line for a divorce. In other words, if he dumped his previous wives and they didn't cheat on him, then according to the bible, remarrying another without adultery being the reason why your marriage ended, is still a sin and leads to an unresolved divorce.
But I did say in my original post that it wouldn't be so much an issue if Steve is in support of a godly lifestyle, which he obviously isn't.
Christians are commanded to be "harsh" with one another when it comes to sin, and especially since sexual sins in the body of Christ is admonished greatly throughout the bible. (see the whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 5 - and note verses 1 and 11).
My comments here are primarily to other Christians. Non-Christians please ignore.
So what I hear you saying is that a person can't change? They can't see the light and become better people?
From your response I get the impression that you assume I'm not a Christian. You would be wrong. See, I agree with what you said about a godly man waiting because that's what he wants to do, not because that's what the woman imposed on him. But because I don't quote verses from the bible, and because I believe that people can do wrong things in their lifetimes and change their lives for the better, and because I can see some truths in some of the things that he says in his book, doesn't make me a "fake" Christian.
All I'm saying is don't take one part of the book and declare that the entire book is bad or wrong. If that were the case, we'd have to throw out the bible as well. The bible has scriptures that one could say support slavery, polygamy, and incest. But no one denounces the bible as trash and admonishes one not to read it.
I know several Christian women--married and single--who have read this book. They don't agree with everything in the book, but they do admit that there are some valid points within. Do they use it to guide their lives? No. No one should. They took it for what it is, a different perspective. Are they "fake" Christians?
I agree with alot of what you are saying I admit I listen to Mr. Harvey and belive he is a pretty good comedian hence comedian not relationship therapist and you are so right when you say he needs to focus on his own mishaps within marriages before doling out advice to others at first I wanted to read this book but when you stop and think and I do mean think reality sets in and thats why I dont have this book right now
S. forehand, I'm glad reality set in for you about this book. Now if others can also see the reality of it all!
A. Smith, just because this book has some "good things" in it, doesn't mean it should get any Christian's approval. Heck, I'm sure one can even find "good things" in a Playboy magazine, romance books (women's porn) and the like! Would you advise Christians to go and buy these books and just read the good while ignoring the bad? Steve Harvey's book isn't pornographic thank God, but the point is that he is giving advice that isn't even godly and Christians need to leave it alone completely!
Now my past isn't all that golden either, but when a person makes a change (like I've done) then you definitely show that change and walk in God's commandments, not encouraging folks to still live sinfully, as Steve Harvey is doing. Sure, Christians aren't perfect and do break God's commandments, but our attitude should be of sorrow and immediately stop sinning whenever it happens. Never to have anyone think it's ever okay to break God's biblical commandments.
I've had to be critical of him and make these comments because far too many so-called Christians are actually going by some 90-day rule or similar, completely ignoring God's call for it to be a ZERO day rule! Folks, turn our hearts, souls and MINDS back to God and actually believe His bible by obeying it!
A. Smith, I was referring to Steve Harvey possibly being a "fake Christian." Not any responders or folks who read his book. Fake Christians are those who call themselves Christians, but you couldn't tell by their lifestyles that they are truly saved.
Fake Christian is just a modern way of saying "hypocrite."
Dee M., I totally agree. If you are a true Christian and desire to have Godly benefits in your relationship, then this book isn't for you. Christians don't rely on the power of each other to validate or make each other feel good. Christ redeemed us from that responsibility when He was nailed to the cross. The Lord carries our burdens and supplies our needs. And so it is to HIM we commit to, not to each other as we're mis-taught. If my husband cheats, he has to answer to God. Yes, yes.....my flesh will feel it, but nothing to hard for the Lord to heal. But bottomline.....we have to answer to God when we mess up. And the wrath of God is not the same as the wrath a man. So it doesn't really matter what requirements and standards I set according to Steve, or if the man would respect me more if I waited 90 days, if it doesn't align to the Word of God then the relationship is set-up for failure anyway.
I read the book in 4 hours yesterday and had 5 pages of notes. It was my only way of keeping up. And in addition to all the information being refurbished and regurgitated, Steve contracdicts himself more than enough times. My favorite part is how Steve explains the order of a man's priority---or what it should be. 1. God. 2. Wife/Family. 3. Education. and 4. Business. This priority order is mentioned in just about every chapter. However, the order constantly contradicts itself. First, in the acknowledgements he acknowledges God last. And that's with a very generic...."I'd like to thank my Lord......" In one chapter it mentions the necessities of both committing to religion even if you're buddhist, or whoever you worship. This should not be the talk of a "true" believer. If you believe that Jesus is the way and the only way.....then I think that should be expressed. Esecially from a "man of God". Bottomline, when you think about the whole concept of the making of this book "business" trumps God, friends/family, and education.
Aside from all of the "relationship" tips that Steve tries to give....the saddest thing is that yet again it pushes the falsities and misconceptions of Christianity. I'd respect the book so much more if he wasn't pasting "I love the Lord--Sometimes" on his forehead. Or better yet......if he'd written the book with his wife. You know the "beautiful, perfect, godly woman" who enforced the standards when they were shaking at the hotel that night and Steve received a "booty call". Yeah, her. I'd be curious to hear her speak. Or the ex-wife. Excuse me......ex-wives.
Bottomline..........CHRISTIANS THIS BOOK IS ANOTHER MIND-TRICK FROM THE ENEMY. IT DOES NOT APPLY TO CHRIST-LED RELATIONSHIPS. SO DON'T FALL FOR THE OKEY DOKE!!!! READ THE NEW TESTAMENT INSTEAD.
Proverbs 31:10 - I'm choked up from your well written response!
You broke it down with excellent examples on what Steve is doing wrong and how it relates to God and scripture. I hadn't even read the book because all I heard about was "giving up the cookie in 90 days" which was enough to convince me that this man who appears at those Christian award shows and who calls himself a Christian is highly suspect as one!
Well, based upon your information, I would say Steve Harvey is NOT a Christian. You are so right that a true believer would never evoke Buddha's name for worship! Every Christian should believe that Jesus Christ IS the only way to God! Those who don't - need educating!
Thank you so much for sharing your info. Sadly for me, I'm going to have to read this book if I am to present any more intelligent conversation to the folks who have read this and be prepared to "give them an answer" as you have done!
Very interesting discussion. I especially appreciated A. Smith's comments. In the midst of so much godlier-than-thou judgmentalism and sermonizing, it is always refreshing to encounter at least one person who seems to predicate her Christianity on tolerance, kindness, thoughtful use of one's God-given brain, and a sincere effort to emulate Jesus.
Apparently Christians are know-it-alls who think that God has told them something personally. What arrogance! What stupidity! What positively ignorant thinking.
If you think that the Bible (put together and translated by men who wanted to control women) is THE word, then you're pitiful. Go ahead and follow what you believe, but keep your nose out of everyone else's business. There's probably some Bibical proverb warning against busy-bodies, right? If not, then there should be one.
I find this book offensive in the sense that men need to be controlled like animals. Let the men take some freaking responsibility for their actions.
Marva, this discussion isn't about Christian-bashing, but about Steve's book. Your comments were offensive up until your very last line - "let the men take some freaking responsibility for their actions."
Very well said! I finally had the stomach to read his entire book which I did in less than a day. It is a very easy book to read and well written. But as Prov 31 wrote that it is a book full of contradictions. If you are going to call yourself a Christian, then you must show a lifestyle consistent to your beliefs.
Steve does appear to take the responsibility of the man away from him when he keeps placing it on all the things a woman must *do* to get/keep her man especially when it comes to sex. A Christian man will encourage his woman to wait until marriage. Heck, these days women can be too hot to trot and are just as ready as the man to jump into bed! Let's please see some men stronger than women! The bottomline is that Christian men AND women both need to practice what should be being preached: NO SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE!
Steve's book wasn't all bad and it does give an insight on how men think. I would love to see Steve write a book on relationships after he:
1) Finds out the true meaning of becoming a Christian - on page 45 he talks about trying to get to the Gate! Is he trying to work his way to heaven? Hopefully he can clarify that in his future TV/Radio interviews. Born-again Christians have no fear of whether they'll make heaven or not. Jesus dying on the cross and becoming alive again through his resurrection, guaranteed believers a place with Him if we repent and believe.
2) Understand that putting God first means OBEYING Him! (John 14:15, 15:14) Could Steve envision himself writing a book encouraging a woman to hold the *cookie* until marriage? It definitely wouldn't make the New York Time's Bestsellers list! Talking God and living God are two completely different things!
3) Learns that a Christian is to date Christians only. On page 140, he condones Christians dating non-Christians by writing, "I'm not saying that you shouldn't date a man who....has a different belief system than you." Completely contrary to scripture that tells us not to be unequally yoked!
Yes, if Steve gets a hold on to some godly wisdom AND write a book like that, it would be the best thing for both women and men. We need more books written by men for women and it's always nice to hear the man's perspective on relationships. Heck, we women ARE clueless about men until they let us know how they think!
I think God views ANY sin as a sin... I don't think there are tiers of "how bad a certain sin is"...it's not like Dante's Inferno or anything. I agree with both of you ladies: If Steve Harvey claims to be a man of God, maybe he shouldn't be talking about sex before marriage, but on the other hand, I thought Christianity was about accepting others and not judging people. The only one who can judge us is God, right? None of us is better than the other. It just makes me think because I live with a roommate who is "religious" and does not believe in gay relationships, let alone marriages because it is a sin...but her sleeping with her boyfriend isn't?? I'm sure my post is going off topic, but whatever!
You know Dee M. I am a born again Christian and what you are saying is STRAIGHT SCRIPTURE... However, due to all the hype, I purchased the book (knowing I wasn't suppose to, because it wasn't for me & the life I'm trying to live). However, after reading this thread, I once again felt convicted in my heart about purchasing it. I agree, Christians SHOULD NOT PURCHASE THIS BOOK. I've only read a few pages and have decided to take it back. I saw him on Oprah (before I purchased the book); and from everything he said I JUST KNEW, It wasn't for us. I know YOU'RE NOT judging this man, you're just stating the facts. For that reason I thank you for your postings and hope Believers as well as Non Believers see it for what it really is.... I understand what you're doing... you're making a stand for Christ and trying to help Believers stay focus on what is TRUE according to the Word, and what is not... God Bless You in your stand for Righteousness and Holiness regardless what others say.
I don't think anyone should look to the Bible for relationship advice. Unless you think it's ok for your husband to cheat on you with a prostitute. It's not considered adultery unless it's another man's WIFE. Single women don't count. Proverbs (6:26) urges men to seek prostitutes, whose fee is equal only to a loaf of bread. Look
And you and your husband should be exiled from your city if you have sex while you're on your period. (Leviticus 20:18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people. )
Or if you think you should "sit in silence" and just obey your husband like a good Christian wife (Timothy 2:11-12 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." )
It's ok for men to rape women (Judges 19:16-30 "Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing." The man sent his own concubine outside to the gang, who proceeded to serially rape her. She died of the attacks. The man only learned of her death when he was leaving the house in the morning and stumbled across her body. The woman was clearly considered expendable and of little value.)
Tdiane, don't feel bad about purchasing the book. I did too! Lol! I felt that my comments weren't validated until I read the book. I wanted to get it at the library but the waiting list had 132 people on it (popular) and I didn't know anyone who already had it. So I had to bite the dust and buy it, but will be selling it at my first opportunity! I guess I can justify my position being a "critic" and all! :)
But I do appreciate the fact that you know I'm coming from a very scriptural position and taking a stand that any Christian should be doing. Plenty of scriptural warnings against accepting ungodly counsel which is exactly what Steve H is doing. I know he's not trying to be evil, in fact it appears that his intention is to help women and not hurt them. But he's lacking in the wisdom to give the information that women need to hear, so instead of it being God's will, it's the will of Steve Harvey that he's sharing - backed up only by his own experience.
Anyways, thanks for your insightful comments and support!
Madison, you are giving advice not to read the bible for advice. Now who's advice do you think we're going to follow at this point?
If you have serious objections to the bible, you need to go to someone and talk with them. This post is not the place but check out www.tektonics.org or www.carm.org (click on the "bible difficulties" tab) and those same verses are discussed within those sites.
I will say this much - the bible is a very real book showing man's very real evilness. Just because the evil act is written in the bible doesn't mean that God condones it. Every verse must be read in its entire context or you will be missing it's point. I can already tell you that you've done just that for both of those verses.
Check out the websites if you truly want to find out what the bible is about, or if you're just a hater you will always find what you are looking for!
1. Christian women are advised not to read this book by a woman WHO HAS NOT READ THIS BOOK! (at the time, anyway.) Gimme a break. 2. TELLING people not to read a book is like bookburning (censorship), which is VERY dangerous. Besides, nothing is better guaranteed to make people read it who weren't inclined to to begin with.<g> 3. Your interpretation of the bible is not necessarily the same as everybody elses', or even anybody else's. 4. Re the bible, almost no one who hasn't been to a good seminary (Christian or Jewish) knows what he/she is talking about. 5. Re faith and behavior, judge not that ye be not judged. Unless you're a Satanist, in which case we Christians can judge all we want to. 6. Why not say, "In my opinion, this book is not a very good example of Christian behavior, as I understand Christian behavior." 7. Can we exchange opinions without being so intolerant?
The thing about these "Christians" is that they are so wrapped up in their favorite do's and don'ts that they don't see the big picture. There are many things the Bible advocates that culturally we no longer accept. (Slavery ring a bell? How about "women, don't adorn yourselves"). Have some common sense, people. And if you're so worried about being godly that you can't read a book and form your own opinion, then maybe you should seek forgiveness so you can focus on something besides your guilt complex.
I know this isn't the point of this thread but your comment opened to door and I just can't help walking in.
I LOVE it when people say things like "there are many things the Bible advocates that CULTURALLY we no longer accept." Biblical principles and commandments do not cease to be relevant because the times have changed! Jesus' birth, death and resurrection are the only things that changed man's relationship with God concerning SOME of the Biblical principles from Old Testament times to the New Testament times. Those of us who believe must read the Word for ourselves and pray for understanding as we do so that we are not deceived into thinking that want is culturally acceptable is holy and acceptable unto God!
I will agree that people with solid conviction and strong faith should be able to read a book and determine what falls in line when their faith and what does not. But, many people, even strong believers, can be deceived by what appears to be common sense so I see why someone who discourage taking this book as a relationship guide.
Geezer, your comments would be funny if they weren't so sad!
1. It only takes reading a small portion of this book to know that there are things in it that can confuse even the strongest of Christian women (p. 43-"the way we men connect is by having sex. Period.....You got about a good month at best without it. And then he's going to get it from somewhere else (unless you're carrying his child)." What hope does any woman of faith who is praying for a man of God who will not ask her to compromise her conviction to wait for marriage have if this is true of all or even most men??? I was a little sad when I first read this until I remembered that God does not want me to fail and He would never require anything of me that wasn't possible.
2. I have to agree that telling people not to do something does guarantee they do it, but bookburning?!?!?!
3. For the record, I agree with Dee's interpretation of the Bible. Everything she said is scripturally sound. Some people may find her uncompromising and in-your-face approach to be "holier-than-thou" but Christians have been asked to water down Biblical principles and be politically correct to point that it is very hard for many believers to know what is right in the sight of God.
4.The Bible is given to EVERYONE. It is God who gives us understanding. No, we may not ever fully understand every scripture in the Bible but God will certainly give us the understanding that we need to be the people that He requires us to be! John 14:26 says the Holy Spirit teaches ALL things and brings Jesus' saying to our remembrance. Education is only meant to enhance what God reveals to us.
5. If you're going to quote the scripture, look at the scriptures around it to get some foundation. You, like most people, quote Matt 7:1 by itself, but read on to v. 5 "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." This passage of scripture is saying that, if you are going to point out other people's sin, make sure you have taken care of that sin in your life. Paul makes judgements about sin (his sin and other people's sin) thru most of the New Testatment and no one could make ANY decision if they do not first make a judgement of the facts. Most of the time people quote Matt 7:1 so they can do their dirt without anyone saying anything to them about it.
6. Again, Christians are constantly asked to be flexible and polite about sin. that's why so many of us are screwed up now. We need to see sin for what it is so we can seek God for the help we need while we can! I thank God for bold Christians who call a spade a spade.
7. Agreed, we should be able to exchange opinions with tolerance.
Nobodys perfect ... and name the last person you know who "waited" besides a great, great , relative (even they didnt wait.) David slept with Bethsheba and still made it in the Bible. And wasn't it Abraham who had a son out of wed lock? God is a forgiving God. Who are we to say if this man is Christian? If he's not then none of us are ... cause we have ALLL sinned and come short of the glory. And its funny how out of all he said ... SEX seems to still catch the eye ... hmmm.
All these teens and people out here having babies all these years and all church folk can say is ... "Don't have sex" ... now thats sad. At least Steve offering some realistic advise.
Lodeenie, excellent points you've made! Just glad to know that there are Christians who can see right through Steve Harvey's book. Like I wrote before, Steve doesn't have any bad intentions but quite good ones in wanting what's best for women. Unfortunately, he's giving advice through his own eyes rather than God's! (Do not be not wise in your own eyes. fear the LORD and shun evil. - Proverbs 3:7)
I like the fact you broke down Matthew 7:1-5. That has to be one of the most misquoted verses in all of the bible! People (even unbelieving ones) are quick to say "judge not" without realizing that there's more to that section. We CAN judge one another, and if fact encouraged to do so! Just got to be sure that we're checking the sin in our own lives BEFORE we judge others!
Jay, of course nobody's perfect. But we are never to encourage another person to break God's commandments as Steve is doing in his book. Where in the bible can you find King David to encourage one to sin against THE FATHER? King David was quite the opposite: it broke his heart whenever he was confronted with the sin in his life. He loved God so much he wanted to be as far from sin as possible! Being human, he just gave of many examples of his failures, but the brokenness was always a part of King David's walk with God.
But Steve Harvey is typical of American Christians - numbed to sin! The scriptures remind us of this in 1 Corinthians chapter 5: "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you ...And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this?" (verses 1-2)
Being proud, no grief, -- that describes Christians in this country. Didn't need Hollywood to make them just like the Corinthian Christians. And get this, Paul is speaking about CHRISTIANS! Look at what he says here in that same chapter:
"I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people- not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat." (vs 9-11)
Wow! We are not to have ANYTHING to do with Christians who practice sin! Can you imagine if most of our churches practiced that type of discipline today? And watch how Paul ends that chapter:
"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you." (vs. 12 and 13)
We ARE to judge one another! Christians are to judge one another - not the unsaved. Our job with the unsaved is getting the gospel to them...not to judge them as we are required to judge the church!
I deleted an earlier post because I was getting off topic, but seeing the other comments - pro and con - I decided to jump back in and finish what I started. Defending the faith...can't keep quiet about that!