|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
12 Reviews
|
Average Customer Review
Share your thoughts with other customers
Create your own review
|
|
Most Helpful First | Newest First
|
|
30 of 35 people found the following review helpful:
2.0 out of 5 stars
Thought Provoking, but Fell Short,
Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Church 3.0: Upgrades for the Future of the Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Hardcover)
Just finished Neil Cole's book Church 3.0. This is the first thing I have read by Cole and as the foreword from Francis Chan said, "You will be stretched and challenged in your thinking." From what I had heard of Cole, I didn't want to read this book, it was Chan's recommendation that this book will help an established church learn from the organic church movement, is what made me pick it up.There were several times I wanted to put the book down, but I kept thinking about one of my professors in seminary who said, "To be an effective Christian leader today, you must read those you disagree with to learn from them, so you can sit across from them at Starbucks and lovingly disagree and have a conversation." So I pressed on. Let me start with some learnings or things I agreed with before talking about where I disagreed. He used an example of The Shaping of Things to Come where the authors discuss the idea of extraction. This for me was really challenging and had me thinking for days. What happens in churches for many new Christians is that they get saved and immediately enter the safe Christian bubble, leaving behind all of their non-Christian friends (and losing the possible influence they can be on those friends for the gospel). This seems to make sense on the outside because you don't want them to fall back into their old ways. But, it can be counter productive. By extracting them, we actually keep them from living out their newfound faith and "from stepping into an environment where she must choose to exercise the very faith she is purported to have." While you don't want to move back into certain situations, the Holy Spirit is living within every new Christian, let Him do His job. Another thing he pointed out was the church will ask, "How can we get people to our church?" instead of asking "Where is Jesus working and how can I work alongside of Him?" What I wonder is whether or not the organic church movement wrestles with how to invite people into it or to their gatherings. At some point, it has to come up in the conversations if it is to grow and reach more people. Cole also pointed out that we wrongly evaluate our success. Church's base their success on numbers, size of buildings and budgets instead of basing it on influence. Who is being influenced for Jesus? Is that influence growing? He also talked about challenging people in the way of Jesus. Too many Christians and churches seem very lazy and not on mission. I love this line in the book, "I want to lower the bar of how church is done so that anyone can do it, and raise the bar of what it means to be a disciple so that they will do it." Too many churches and pastor's do not cast a vision that is worth someone's life. People walk into our churches every week looking and longing for something hard, something worth their life, worth giving everything to. Jesus is that. It will cost us everything (Luke 9:23). Now, let's switch gears to where I felt like Cole set up straw men just to blow them over. I felt like many times, to make the leap that organic church is the only way to do it, you have to toss out many New Testament passages. Specifically, the ones that have to do with preaching and leadership. Here is a great example: One thing he talked about was the involvement of an organic church and what that can mean for individuals. He said, "In organic church thinking, Christian leaders are no longer to do the work of the ministry, but to equip the Christians to do the work. Evangelists are not called to reach the lost, but to equip the saints to do so. Teachers are not just called to teach, but to equip Christians to teach. We could see ordinary Christians fulfill the great commission by "teaching them to observe all that (Christ has) commanded (us)" (Matthew 28:20). This is a revolution that will turn church as we know it upside down, and in the process all the passive Christians will be poured out into the world like salt out of a saltshaker. Wow - now, that will change the world!" Uh, my question is, what church isn't doing this? This is what the church is supposed to be like. What I failed to see is how only an organic church can do this and how this will revolutionize the church. So, following Ephesians 4 and Matthew 28 will revolutionize the church? I believe that, but that isn't new and every church should be doing this (not just organic churches). One of the things I have always disagreed with the organic church movement is in the area of leadership, specifically, what they need to leave out to have the vision of church they do. While he mentions elders in the book, he doesn't mention why he doesn't use them and what to do with the fact that we are told to have leaders. The organic church, in an effort to be decentralized, stray away from a hierarchy. While many people say this can lead to abuse of power because of lack of accountability, Cole handles that very well. He talks about vision and how "if the vision comes from one person and is carried out by others, then there is a dependency that curtails true reproduction. Sound leadership in a movement is not coming up with the vision and then casting it to others, but instead helping others find a vision for themselves and releasing it to the ends of the earth."My problems with this statement are numerous. One, most of his ideas in the book are based in scripture with references. This idea is nowhere in Scripture. While it sounds nice and communal, an idea needs to be Biblical when it comes to the church. Second, this isn't even working in the business world. While Cole points to organizations like Wikipedia and Craigslist as decentralized organizations, those were started by someone, given a vision by someone. He, Cole, is giving a vision to the organic church movement that other "leaders" are taking and running with. Third, why can't a Biblical vision, given to a leader, not lead to helping others find a vision for themselves. Again, and this is my big problem with many of his "organic church only" ideas is that many of them are happening in established churches, should be happening or are happening. My biggest problem with the organic church movement is how they consistently use Matthew 18:20 out of context. The verse says, "For where two or three come together in my (Jesus') name, there am I (Jesus) with them." Throughout scripture we are reminded of the presence of God. We cannot ask for more of God's presence than what we have (like when a worship leader asks God to pour out His Spirit, uh, we have all we need and as much as we are going to get). My problem is the context of this verse has nothing to do with the way it is used. This verse has to do with conflict, community, and church discipline. This verse does not mean (to quote Mark Driscoll), "If 2 guys are having a beer and one guy sneezes and the other says "God bless you" that church just happened." While I got a lot out of this book and had a lot to chew on, I was frustrated with the use of passages out of context to make it possible for Cole to say, "The way I do church is the only Biblical way to do it." At one point (p. 129) he says that "the organic church will give more glory to God than a non-organic church." That is a huge statement. As I said, what I struggle with (and I do this) is when an author or leader talks about how they do church as the only right and Biblical way of doing things. While you should be passionate about how you do church (I know I am) and it is easy to think this way, but it is shortsighted and actually does more harm than good. It says, "If you don't do it this way, you won't be able to fulfill God's will and mission here on earth." Do I agree with everything Cole and the organic church movement do? No. Are there things we can learn from organic churches, missional churches, seeker-sensitive churches? Yes. That is the beauty of the church and the kingdom. This book will stretch you, it stretched and challenged me. I would say that if you want to read a book on what a biblical church looks like and should be in our culture, this would be a good one, but a better one is Vintage Church. As I said, I feel like Cole had to throw out some Bible verses to make his points, as well as saying things that weren't true (everytime he points out what an organic church can do that an established church can do). for more, see [...]
10 of 12 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
Easy-to-understand Answers to Seminary-Level Questions,
By
This review is from: Church 3.0: Upgrades for the Future of the Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Hardcover)
When I read Cole's second book, Organic Church, I found myself thinking along two veins. First, I remember the fundamental logic that ran through the book; from a biblical and missiological perspective, Cole's assertions made perfect sense. Second, I clearly remember thinking, "While these thoughts are all good, what about...?" Church 3.0 is dedicated to answering the attentive reader's "What about..." questions.Questions answered that are, in my opinion, of particular importance are: How do organic church expressions keep from becoming ingrown? How does the organic church address missional living in a way conventional expressions do not? While there's no doubt many New Testament churches met in homes, what about the overtly-centralized Jerusalem church? What about heresy? Having read my fair share of books, I am well aware of fluff. Cole's Church 3.0 isn't that. While the book is certainly assessable to the average reader, Cole artfully addresses important issues at a seminary level. His treatment of the varying expressions of the New Testament church, for example, is superb. Not only does Cole outline each model's characteristics (Jerusalem, Antioch, Thessalonica, Roman, and Ephesian), he explains the pluses and minuses of each, allowing the reader to come to his or her own conclusions regarding the missional effectiveness of each expression. As a former pastor, church staffer, missionary, and professor, let me assure you Church 3.0 is worth your time. Although many have watched the rise of the megachurch, an equal number are concerned with the McDonaldization of the church (for a thorough discussion, read John Drane's After McDonaldization: Mission, Ministry, and Christian Discipleship in an Age of Uncertainty). Cole's Church 3.0 not only gives voice to such concerns, he articulates a biblical ecclesiology grounded in a now-proven track record of multiplying churches that are both self-perpetuating and self-propagating.
4 of 4 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
read this book,
By
Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Church 3.0: Upgrades for the Future of the Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Hardcover)
clear. challenging. convicting. you should read this book. one of my favorite thoughts:"Unfortunately, as the world looks at our churches, particularly in the West, it sees only what people have done or what programs they are doing. The world is not impressed. In response, we scheme and plot and plan: `What can we do to make our church more appealing to the people in our community?' this is, once again, the wrong question. It's as if we're trying to boost God's approval ratings. It is God's name that is at risk, not ours, and we are not responsible for protecting His reputation. He can handle that, by Himself, just fine. A better question is, "Where is Jesus seen at work in our midst?" Where do we see lives changing, and communities transforming simply by the power of the Gospel?" dead on.
6 of 7 people found the following review helpful:
4.0 out of 5 stars
upgrading the church,
By James Best "speckled gotee" (Westland, MI United States) - See all my reviews
This review is from: Church 3.0: Upgrades for the Future of the Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Hardcover)
As I sat down to write this book review my family was getting ready to celebrate Easter weekend. One of my kids wanted to know why we would call Good Friday, "good"? My wife and I explained that Good Friday is "good" because that was the day Jesus died on the cross. It is good for us because of the death and resurrection of Jesus we have the ability to have purpose and meaning in life and an eternal relationship with God. As amazing as this is, it is even more amazing that the Bible tells us that we will do even more amazing things than Jesus. (John 14:12) Neil Cole is someone who is taking this challenge seriously. Neil has devoted his life to creatively releasing the reproduction of healthy disciples, leaders, churches, and movements for the Kingdom of God. Neil wants to raise the bar on what it means to be a disciple and lower the bar on how to do church. This book has a very interesting title. It uses the motif of a software upgrade, which is a common analogy for most Americans in 2010. Neil's desire is to call the church back to its roots of fertility and function which will allow it to make a difference in the world and if it is making a difference in the world the world will be different.Many of us know that software upgrades can be good and bad. Often new and needed features are bogged down with unexplainable headaches. Many institutions and organizations need to make upgrades in how they function to meet new demands and stay true to their vision and mission. Unfortunately the church is usually the slowest to upgrade and make changes in how they seek to carry out their mission. Now more than ever the church needs to get over stereotypes about change and make some much needed upgrades. Neil feels that that a good upgrade will do some very important things. A good upgrade will make things more intuitive. A good upgrade will also make the church more powerful in accomplishing all of its important tasks. Finally, a good upgrade will open up the church to a new market of people who will have had no previous experience with the church. The First Century Church in Acts was Church 1.0. The church in this period was mostly a marginalized movement under the heat of intense persecution. Church 2.0 dramatically occurred during the reign and rule of the Roman Emperor Constantine. During this period the church went from an underground, grassroots organic movement to a more institutional organization. Now there is a need for Church 3.0 so that a shift can occur from a program-driven church and clergy-led institutional approach to church to something that is more relational, simple, and viral in its spread. For Neil, this book is not a defense of organic church, it is rather a clarion call for us all to do church better. He believes it is not just a question of "Will this happen?" but rather "Will you and your church be a part of what God is up to in these incredible times?" The first two chapters of the book give many reasons why we are in a new era and that are many changes with global impact upon us. We must adapt as a church in order to be faithful to the charge given to us by God. One of the best parts of the book are the list of shifting values that we must take notice of in order to be making an impact in our world. The changing values are as follows: * Relationship over mission * Authenticity over excellence * Experience over proposition * Mystery over solution * Diversity over uniformity * Journey over destination Neil closes his book with the fact that Church 3.0 has arrived. It is actually at work and spreading. We can duck our heads and cover and try to pretend these realities are not happening, or we can embrace the changes and run full speed ahead and join in with what God is doing in the world around us. Either way what we can't do is stop the changes that continue to come. Even if we cannot agree completely with Neil and his propositions, it is important to see that we must make foundational changes in the way we are the church and the way we do church. It seems very much like my favorite quote from Gandhi. "We must be the change we wish to see in the world."
3 of 3 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
Thought provoking,
By
Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Church 3.0: Upgrades for the Future of the Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Hardcover)
Neil Cole offers an excellent vision for the church to be missional into the future. Whether you agree with him or not, this book will challenge you to think and consider church as it is. It calls for more from the church and invites people to join.I hope that many will read and digest what he is saying and then consider how they might need to upgrade their efforts is pursuing the kingdom of God.
2 of 2 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
Amazing book, really gets you thinking!!,
Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Church 3.0: Upgrades for the Future of the Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Hardcover)
I purchased this book for my husband and he loves it. It has so many concepts on Christianity, some are different from what we were taught at our former church. Great book, its not just for people who want to start a church but for those who want to follow Jesus Christ to the fullest!
4 of 5 people found the following review helpful:
3.0 out of 5 stars
Early church - new church?,
Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Church 3.0: Upgrades for the Future of the Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Hardcover)
Coles presents a view of Christianity that challenges the current predominant view. While his view is intriguing, and has some merit it is based on the premise that reading the Gospels through the eyes of Paul is reading in the wrong direction, which also has some merit,but fails then to reconcile the inclusion of Paul in Scripture. If Scripture presents a meta narrative, shouldn't we try to find the unifying themes that run through this narrative and not ignore sections that don't fit with our current one?Also, his inference that church really should be done only one way - small home groups - may discard God's purposes in other venues. A good, challenging read that will stretch your thinking about church and that is always good.
1 of 1 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
Church's needed future,
By John Strong (Windsor, CA, US) - See all my reviews
Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Church 3.0: Upgrades for the Future of the Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Hardcover)
Neil Cole writes carefully and completely about the changes going on around the world as people look for more of what God really promised, the loving community of faith that lives the grace, truth and witness Jesus commanded and prayed for. In this book you won't get an ideology thrown at you you will get a report of what is going on around the world and what the real principles are for really living the life that the church was supposed to be. If you are feeling, like millions are, that building programs, talking heads and worship shows are not what you really want or wanted for your life in Christ then you need to read this book. You will read more about the priesthood of all believers, the caring community and the witnessing community. You can begin to experience the life Jesus really wanted you to have and you can only truly receive it, give it and live it in a true community. Check it out.
1 of 1 people found the following review helpful:
2.0 out of 5 stars
Church Planting Text Book,
By Calvin W. Fergins "Maverick Historic Theologian" (Seminary (Outside Bethlehem, PA)) - See all my reviews
Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Church 3.0: Upgrades for the Future of the Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Hardcover)
This is the textbook I had to read for my Church Planting/Church Growth course that I'm taking. I'll be breief:The first 2/3 really had me. It was a good read to that point. From there the mood changed. I really felt like the author had a serious chip on his shoulder in his writing about how the church has done baptism and the Lord's Supper for the past several centuries. He writes as if he has the RIGHT way to do it and not a possible way. His attitude came off as somewhat cocky and arrogant. He believes firmly that Church 3.0 is God's plan and will sweep the world, time will tell. If 20 years from now the Church 3.0 model is growing and strong then it very well may be a good alternative but if this thing dies out in 10 years then it was nothing more than a good idea for its time and not the revolutionary change it's being marketed as. I myself am very open to doing church differently. My problem is when it comes off like the church has missed it the mark for the past 2,000 years and here's a guy with the answer. That makes me feel uneasy, especially with his tone in the last 75 pages or so. We all see different things wrong with the church that need improvement and I think the problem needs a vareity of approaches and not just one. In the end the author has some good things to say and some things to think about (his section on heresy was excellent) but I don't think this book is THE answer to the current church problem. I believe it goes much deeper than whether we meet in homes or buildings, whether the clergy is paid or bi-vocational, etc.
5.0 out of 5 stars
How to reach those looking to re-connect with the church,
By Midwest Book Review (Oregon, WI USA) - See all my reviews
This review is from: Church 3.0: Upgrades for the Future of the Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Hardcover)
CHURCH 3.0: UPGRADES FOR THE FUTURE OF THE CHURCH comes from a consultant and innovative pastor who considers church leadership in the 21st century, exploring what it means to be an organic church capable of replication and accountability. A new model based on the practices of modern followers offers a new upgrade to the idea of how to define a mission, pros and cons of different approaches, and how to reach those looking to re-connect with the church.
|
|
Most Helpful First | Newest First
|
|
Church 3.0: Upgrades for the Future of the Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) by Neil Cole (Hardcover - February 15, 2010)
$24.95 $16.46
In Stock | ||