|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
15 Reviews
|
Average Customer Review
Share your thoughts with other customers
Create your own review
|
|
Most Helpful First | Newest First
|
|
19 of 22 people found the following review helpful:
3.0 out of 5 stars
Churchquake,
By A Customer
This review is from: Churchquake: How the New Apostolic Reformation Is Shaking Up the Church As We Know It (Hardcover)
Peter Wagner is perhaps today's leading proponent of the restoration to the church of the NT office of the apostle. Churchquake can be a valuable book to introduce the reader to several examples of large local churches that are seeking to be a part of this restoration movement. However, the book fails to deliver on its promise to examine this NT model, since it contains very little biblical exposition or interpretation. Wagner's background in the church growth movement of past decades is akin to that of a sociologist, who examines human behavior -- he is not a biblical scholar and is quite loose in his use of biblical material. Often he describes a current apostolic movement or church and then declares that this model represents a biblical principle - but without any discussion of the NT itself! If read alongside other books which do attempt to examine the NT model of apostolic ministry, Churchquake could be an interesting starting point for initial study.
21 of 25 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
The Church as an Autocracy or dispenser of Christian Love?,
By A Customer
This review is from: Churchquake: How the New Apostolic Reformation Is Shaking Up the Church As We Know It (Hardcover)
In summarising chapter one it is clear that Wagner requires the reader to accept a number of his assertions as givens without critical analysis. If the underlying premise is not accepted then the reader will have difficulty accepting the rest of the book. However there are significant points he raises which allow the reader to ask some difficult and painful questions of the church in the 21sr century.
In chapter 2 he spends some time explaining how he came to the use of the term as opposed to 60 possible names and essentially pads his book out a bit with some of the rejected definitions. Three important nuances of the term apostolic" are discussed. These include the reformation use of the term to affirm the doctrine of sola scriptura, early Pentecostal use to define the restoration of apostolic faith after 18 centuries of apostasy. The second nuance relates to the evangelical priority of these congregations. The third relates to the gift and office of apostle. The use of the word "nuance" is interesting in that its definition is that of association only. It is not a strong term but subtle. One needs to ask if Wagner is drawing a long bow here to further develop his argument that the new apostolic churches are based on the doctrine of sola scriptura, restoration of apostolic faith and the office of apostle? In chapter 3 Wagner presents factual information which is interesting and informative with the expectation that the reader will accept what he is saying as a fait accomplit. There is another view and very rarely does he allude to this such as Tony Campolo's view that denominationalism has a future. In chapter 4 he aims to have the reader accept the idea that the pastor is like a managing director or CEO with spiritual authority delegated by the Holy Spirit to the extent that Wagner's own pastor has sole discretion for the expenditure of 65% of the church budget of $5 million Read together chapter five and six suggest to me that New Apostolic Churches have the potential to become as corrupt as the Roman Catholic Church prior to the Reformation. Rather than one pope the NAC philosophy suggests having lots of "apostles" leading networks with decision making centralised with the individual apostle. In chapter seven Dr Wagner assumes that liturgical worship is inferior to spontaneous worship. In chapter 8 Wagner expounds his theory that outreach in NAC networks is focussed on four central tasks - expanding the local church, planting new churches, mercy ministries and cross cultural mission. Whilst Wagner makes some good points in chapter 8 he unfortunately is somewhat lacking in taking cultural, political and social factors into account when supporting his argument Wagner for a Church historian makes an astounding claim that `apostolic theology of lay ministry' is a fairly recent discovery of the last 25-30 years in chapter 9.He then goes on to develop this argument using sub headings such as "Every Church Member a Minister", `Reconsidering Clergy versus Laity' and "the Pastor as Coach." Chapter Ten - Money? NO PROBLEMS This of all chapters in the book probably utilises scripture the most. This may be because ultimately he can find no sociological references to support the views presented in this chapter which is what he has generally done for the first nine chapters of the book. Unfortunately his use of scripture is selective and biased and one does not have to be a theological student to see that he has clearly forgotten Jesus' references to giving being something done in secret between the giver and God. Unfortunately he presents the use of money and the way it is given in New Apostolic Churches in a way that would make most Australian Christians uncomfortable and suspicious of the motives of pastoral oversight of the offering and knowledge of how much people are giving and who is giving what. Not content to present this scenario he then goes on to suggest that it is legitimate for the big givers to get rewarded in ways that those who do not give as much may not be rewarded! He even cites a church that has a week in a resort for those who give over one million dollars. This chapter if read alone convinces me that what Wagner is presenting as an apologist for the NAC network is nothing more than an autocratic bureaucracy, which redefines the relationships of Christians in the church and uses slick marketing and commercial business principles to govern the church and presents what are blatantly unbiblical methods for raising money. One might be forgiven for wondering if Wagner's ego has overtaken his commitment to serve the church with the story on page 241 about the honorariums he was given by two churches where he spoke for a weekend. If he was to measure his worth in dollar terms then he should have openly indicated what he expected as payment at the first church rather than using the discrepancy in the amount proffered by both churches to build his case. SUMMARY Wagner identifies himself in the book as having been a member of the Congregational church for most of his life. It is not clear what theological emphasis this denomination had on his life, however it appears that he has experienced a late life crisis (conversion) where he has been either renewed or born again. If the NAC network is responsible for this new found fervour then it is not surprising that he has written a book that lacks credibility and is highly critical of "traditional" churches. I can identify with this following my own conversion from Catholicism. Following my conversion I was highly critical of the Catholic Church and could easily have written a book such as Wagner has written pointing out all the faults of the Catholic Church. His description of the New Apostolic Church Network is blinkered and uncritical whilst his view of traditional churches is fairly scathing, not recognising the positive things achieved by the church in the last 2000 years. He continually uses the Southern Baptists as exceptions to most arguments where he states that the church is in decline. Given that this denomination is the exception to his rule it is worth asking what is it that makes them different. I would suggest that the answer is self evident as everything he argues for on behalf of the NAC network can be cited as true of Southern Baptists: Baptists are still young as a denomination compared with more traditional churches; They are driven by vision and values - ie the Great Commission; The pastor leads the church (at least in USA) where when a new pastor is inducted the whole leadership resigns and allows the pastor a free hand to establish the church under his leadership; Contemporary worship is not a monopoly of the NACs.; Southern Baptists would probably have the largest number of missionaries of any denomination in the world; Outreach is still a priority and SBCs are large churches.
13 of 15 people found the following review helpful:
3.0 out of 5 stars
Amway Apostles,
By Str8outa (Ohio) - See all my reviews
This review is from: Church Quake!: The Explosive Power of the New Apostolic Reformation (Paperback)
Because this book is essentially an apologetic for self-styled mega-church leaders it is worth reading. It assumes a "reformation" posture: declare that the church is in unprecedented crisis, decide that the solution is to return to the "New Testament model", and then presume to describe what this model is.
After reading this book I learned how similar the first century church was to our 21st century MLM corporations. It really is uncanny. In light of this discovery, perhaps pastors should study real business gurus such as Peter F. Drucker or Geoffrey A. Moore. The sum of "Churchquake" can be found towards the end of the last chapter on raising money. After demonstating that larger donors should get preferencial attention from the pastor, Peter Wagner asks aloud; how does the pastor know the income level of the church members? The answer is simple. "A good pastor knows his sheep!" (pg.261) Apparently Wagners' research of church history uncovered the fact that early church elders recieved printouts every Monday listing the top donors in order to reward them with a week at a luxury resort on the Mediterrenean. This is the heart of these new "Apostles". No longer are they spiritual leaders with a mission to feed the sheep---they have become organizational leaders with a machine that fleeces sheep. (John 21;15-16). The crucial question is...do they realize it? MC
18 of 23 people found the following review helpful:
1.0 out of 5 stars
Where's the Bible in this book?,
By A Customer
This review is from: Churchquake: How the New Apostolic Reformation Is Shaking Up the Church As We Know It (Hardcover)
I was extremely disappointed in Wagner's latest book about new and exciting ways that God is moving in today's world. The theological holes in Wagner's beliefs become much more glaring in his presentation of present-day Apostleship. He has great and exciting stories, but he becomes less and less connected to the Word. I would take extreme precaution in applying his principles because they seem to be founded more upon a mysticism and less on Biblical example. Just be careful.
10 of 13 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
The author reflect the growth of churches in N Zealand too.,
By A Customer
This review is from: Churchquake: How the New Apostolic Reformation Is Shaking Up the Church As We Know It (Hardcover)
The observations of the author reflect the growth of similar large churches in New Zealand too. This book does an excellent job of capturing the essence of this worldwide phenomena. His observations were well researched and interestingly presented.Wagner correctly notes the outstanding issue of potential absence of proper oversight may be the point of greatest concern in large churches which he perceives is not fully addressed in this book. Church pastors following this model of church leadership risk becoming cut off from the wisdom of other mature Christians in the church. Sometimes their perception of their intimate walk with God takes them far away from their members. In such a situation, they may feel that any words of caution is a personal challenge to their leadership and therefore a threat to the Body of Christ in that place. This may be so even amongst the people who have stood with the pastor from the beginning and supported the movement of the Holy Spirit in the growth of the church for many years. To challenge any teaching or ideas as unscriptual is projected as a personal attack on the pastor and disloyalty. A rejection of a teaching which is perceived by a member as non-biblical is seen by the Pastors as not moving with the Spirit or even is tantamount to the rejection of the Holy Spirit. Sadly, in one church in Auckland this has seen the rejection of the wisdom of the elders who were relaying the concerns of the members. These elders who were previously raised up by the pastor and as close friends of the pastor were always supportive in all things in the past were put outside. Then other new elders are raised up who are more prepared to agree or remain silent. Wagner notes that many large church pastors say that the Pastor, who is the Shepherd, should not listen to the sheep. Such a situation has meant that the church ceases to grow as thinking, mature Christians rather than enter into conflict leave.
3.0 out of 5 stars
GOOD, BUT STILL AN INSTITUTIONAL CHURCH MINDSET !,
This review is from: Churchquake: How the New Apostolic Reformation Is Shaking Up the Church As We Know It (Hardcover)
Peter Wagner's "Churchquake: how the new apostolic reformation is shaking up the church as we know it" is 276 pages long and is divided into 10 chapters. Its main focus is on understanding the shifts that are going on within the modern day church with the rise of apostolic leaders and the churches and networks they lead. The explosive church growth occurring among these new apostolic leaders and networks is the reason we should pay attention to how they are doing things.
There are several strengths. First, Dr. Wagner has been a keen observer, commentator, and participant in various shifts and streams in the church for over 50 years and, as such, is bringing to our attention the re-emergence of apostolic leaders in the church today and how this is reshaping and making more effective many churches, networks, and denominations. Second, the book is written in a conversational easy-to-read style that will make it accessible to a wider audience and not just theologians and leaders. Third, he deals with a number of issues that are important to the topic, such as the nature and role of modern day apostles, the practical ways that apostolic networks of churches and/or leaders functions, worship that is lively and relevant, evangelism and church planting, generous financial giving, the authority of the local pastor, multiplying ministers, etc. Fourth, there are numerous statistics and real-life stories given which help the reader understand what is actually going on in these churches, which at times are inspiring and motivating. A major drawback should be pointed out. There is still an institutional mindset in Wagner's understanding of the structure of the church. There is no discussion, as far as I can tell, of the need for a reformation of overall church structure back to a more biblical ecclesiology (i.e. the "house church network" model, Acts 2:41-47, 20:20, Rom 16:3-5, 1 Cor 16:19), so that apostles and churches can function properly in a healthy and biblical way. My observation is that these church shifts are merely only about "revitalizing" the current system just to make it more effective, lively, and user-friendly. Yet, the legitimacy of the system itself is not being challenged at all and is allowed to carry on, such as multi-layered hierarchical leadership on an organizational translocal level, one man pastor system in the local church, costly church buildings, spectator-type worship meetings, etc. For instance, one of the 8 changes in worship Wagner observes (and personally claimed to experience) in these new apostolic churches is that they move away from performance towards participation: "We, like the choir, were programmed and controlled by a choir director who occupied the platform... A major change came in 1993 when our church started plugged-in worship. For the first time, I felt as though I was a participant rather than a performer... I use the word "felt" because the difference is undoubtedly more in the heart than in the head. We [still] did have a worship leader who was directing the event, but somehow he made us feel different." (p. 164). But the changes to Sunday worship meetings that Wagner explains (eg. applause, loud music, emotional stirring, freedom to sit still or stand or move around or raise your hands, etc.) are just superficial changes, but the basic spectator experience of worship remains intact. Oh, how different this is compared to the truly participatory worship experience led by the Spirit we see in the New Testament house churches where "each one" brings something to the spiritual table, rather than just a few people on the platform: "What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification." (1 Cor 14:26, NASB). Overall, this is a useful read for anyone interested in some of the very limited shifts that are taking place within the Protestant evangelical/charismatic church. May we not stop there! Let us move on to a truly New Testament type of church! RAD ZDERO, author of LETTERS TO THE HOUSE CHURCH MOVEMENT and THE GLOBAL HOUSE CHURCH MOVEMENT
7 of 11 people found the following review helpful:
4.0 out of 5 stars
Insightful analysis of post-denominational Christianity,
By
This review is from: Churchquake: How the New Apostolic Reformation Is Shaking Up the Church As We Know It (Hardcover)
There is a churchquake shaking up the church as we know it- the New Apostolic Reformation. C. Peter Wagner turns his prophetic analysis on this move of God that is changing the very face of Christianity. Wagner begins with an insightful analysis of the decline of denominationalism. It is devastating. Denominations look to contextual factors for their decline, sociological factors that the church cannot control; whereas Wagner attributes their decline to seven institutional factors well within their control to deal with. Thus, rather than playing victim to the world around it, the church needs to look within itself for the cause of its decline in both numbers and influence.Wagner believes that we live in a day that calls for new wineskins, that God is doing a new work, using new forms, to promulgate the gospel in the world today. Unlike the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century, the new Apostolic Reformation is not so much a reformation of faith, but of practice. Thus Wagner states that the current reformation is not so much against corruption and apostasy as it is against irrelevance. For those who may get hung up on Wagner's use of the word- Apostolic, a more palatable term for evangelicals to use to describe this move of God is post-denominational Christianity. Of course using the term- Apostolic, is a cause of concern among many evangelicals and Wagner goes to great length to define his terms. Wagner sees three nuances that apply to the New Apostolic Reformation. 1. New Testament Christianity. Wagner notes that the reformers of the 16th century used the term apostolic to affirm their doctrine of sola scriptura. Wagner believes that the new apostolic churches reflect more closely the New Testament style in terms of ministry than traditional churches. 2. Priority Outreach to Pre-Christian Populations. Wagner notes that the root for the word apostle means- the sent ones. Thus, apostolic churches focus on reaching non-Christian populations and are driven to make them disciples of Christ. 3. The third and most controversial characteristic of the New Apostolic Reformation is the recognition of the gift and office of apostle in the church today. Wagner defines the spiritual gift of an apostle as follows: The gift of apostle is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the body of Christ to assume and exercise general leadership over a number of churches with extraordinary authority in spiritual matters that is spontaneously recognized and appreciated by these churches. Wagner sees the failure of denominations to recognize the gifts of apostles and prophets, while at the same time, recognizing the gifts of pastor, teacher and evangelist having more to do with entrenched ecclesiastical traditions than biblical exegesis. Whether you are intrigued by the new Apostolic Reformation or see it as a cause of concern, you ought to read this book. Wagner presents in in-depth, sound biblical argument for his thesis, while at the same time recognizing the weaknesses and faults of the New Apostolic Movement.
0 of 1 people found the following review helpful:
4.0 out of 5 stars
Christian church changing,
By
Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Church Quake!: The Explosive Power of the New Apostolic Reformation (Paperback)
The church is changing so fast that this book published in 1999 does not have the most current information. However, it has a very good description of the changes I have seen personally and reasons why some things never change.
6 of 11 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
A must read for Visionary Pastors in the HARVEST,
By Pastor Dwayne Deskins (newlife@willapabay.org) (Raymond, WA) - See all my reviews
This review is from: Churchquake: How the New Apostolic Reformation Is Shaking Up the Church As We Know It (Hardcover)
C. Peter Wagner has answered so many of my questions on the changes the Holy Spirit has been making in my life over the last 4 years. Also has given hope for the denomination of which I belong. We now have a Visionary Apostolic leader at the helm. I now will move forward with ever increasing confidence. I found myself, my vision, my yearning for harvest in every chapter. This book will encourage many who are a part of the "New Apostolic Reformation" and may not even realize. This move is truly being orchestated by none other than the HOLY SPIRIT!
8 of 15 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
New look, still biblically scriptural,
This review is from: Churchquake: How the New Apostolic Reformation Is Shaking Up the Church As We Know It (Hardcover)
The landscape of today's church is changing dramatically. To enhance her appeal in this evolving world, the church must race herself to a place of relevance for today's culture and trend. In this book, Peter Wagner's investigates the personality of churches that are altering spiritual definition and activities. He calls this revolution process ChurchQuake ! From case studies, binocular observations to personal interviews, Peter has brilliantly revealed the characteristic of today's contemporary churches that makes them imposing and inviting. The church today is the result of yesterday's pain. It is evident that the past decades have stood out as molding seasons, providing subtle circumstances so that the Spirit of God can deliver the church from birth pangs to greater maturity. This process can be faintly described as though the church has struck herself against the edge of the Spirit, bursting spiritual effects that are so overwhelming enough to the change the concept of Church. Even theologians and scholars have to come to an acknowledgement of these aftermath effects. The contents of this book are wonderfully arranged. Peter has placed bookmarks in our heart so that we can be constantly reminded that we are now returning to the apostolic age. This fact will sure to ease our shocking discovery that the churches that are growing in this age are totally unlike churches in the past. These fast multiplying churches are called apostolic churches. According to Peter, we will be able to identify them because they are recognized as flexible, expansive, and possess an attitude of willing to relate with other significant ministries. You will also be excited to know that in spite of these phenomenal changes, the spiritual quality of the church has not stopped increasing. As a prominent professor, Peter is a rare breed. Read his product slowly. As you sink yourself into his research facts and enriching materials, you will find out what elements are slowly ending up in tombstones and what are coming to the spiritual frontier of church revolution. Many who have read "ChurchQuake" will likely to agree that Peter has brilliantly identified all the nerve spots of today's apostolic churches that have changed ripples to tidal waves. I believe his invaluable paperwork and statistics will remain as favorite citing in this generation of church growth studies. |
|
Most Helpful First | Newest First
|
|
Church Quake!: The Explosive Power of the New Apostolic Reformation by C. Peter Wagner (Paperback - 1999)
Used & New from: $0.29
| ||