Customer Reviews

Combat Baguazhang Nine Dragon System, Volume Two

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I have a love/hate relationship with writing reviews. What's good for one person may not be good for another. Nevertheless, there's no "see inside" from Amazon yet, so a review will help the potential buyer. Most of the comments below are to give a slightly different opinion from the other reviewers.

One of the reviewers said this book was like the Tao of JKD. My reply would be "sort of". Dr. Painter elucidates the principles of his art. The wedge is a primary principle. For the wedge, he gives quite a few examples. Other things, he provides a few examples, but ends with something like 'the interested reader can uncover more'. Actually, the interested reader wants to, well, read about them. Admittedly, there is no way that one could show *everything*, but I would have preferred more. The section is longer than other Unique publications, but nowhere near the length and depth of Tao of JKD.

There are 40 pages in the application section, but one page is given to pictures, one to commentary (picture 1 shows this, picture 2 that, etc.) and pages here and there on combat principles. The author does say the applications are meant to be examples of principles, and they are that.

The flip side of the comments that this is Ba Gua for a modern self defense is that there is little here of traditional Ba Gua. Dr. Painter's system, IIRC, has a focus on palm formations (heaven palm, thunder palm, etc.) each with a yin yang version. When I see 'palm formations' I mean hand/body formations, not a sequence of movements that other systems refer to as "palm" meaning the movement sequence bracketed by the changing palm movement in a 'kata' set of eight such movements. The palm formations find their way into this volume, but without a specific list of all the palms as a reference. I know Dr. Painter has single palm change, double palm change etc., but those are not in this volume. I've read magazine articles by Dr. Painter that go more in depth, and it's a shame he didn't include some of the same here.

All that being said, I'm glad I purchased the book. The section on training was good (although it also suffered from "the interested reader can figure out more on thier own" treatment in some places). In general, it's well put together and he gets a lot of things mentioned. The guy obviously knows his stuff.

As one reviewer said, this calls for a third volume. I thought the first volume of this series was very good.

Level: Beginner to Intermediate

So this book is what it is advertised to be... a treatise on Nine Dragon Ba Gua training and combat applications. John Painter's approach is clear, concise, and brass tacks reality. He's very to the point and very real about the violent truth of life or death combat. This isn't tournament, this isn't even cage fighting. It's real, and it's all on the line.

The book opens much like Bruce Lee's classic: Tao of Jeet Kune Do. Concepts such as range, closing the gap, vital areas, basic training methods, perception (vision and touch), angles of attack and defense and the like... all with a Ba Gua flair that is somewhat unique but mostly not. He then moves into specific principles from his system that are an interesting approach. The primary concept is the wedge, and the different ways that the various Ba Gua palms provide that structural wedge as a basis for disrupting the opponent's center and moving you into a position to neutralize/counterattack an attack.

The most interesting sections for me were the Ba Gua specific training methods--the various push palms drills, circling drills, iron sphere, nine poles and other footwork drills. Documentation on this sort of thing is somewhat hard to come by, and as a bonus, Painter brings in his very practical perspective into all the training. Dr. Painter is not into all this qi flow stuff as a mystical energy source. It's about physics, the biophysiological principles of relaxation, and total body coordination combined with practical combat tactics, strategy, and attitude. Unlike some authors with this bent, Painter is not inclined to go out on a limb-- he cites well known scientific principles and uses them in very elementary ways to support his perceptions. When it doesn't apply, he just says-- this is what we do, and this is why.

Much of the latter half of the book is combat strategies against various attacks, opponent types, scenarios. It's a sort of practical how-to guide. There are a good number of step-by-step examples illustrating his system's fundamental approach and enough variations to get a good feel for the way they approach applications in general.

There probably wasn't enough space in this book to address my main interests-- that is biomechanics of power generation, more detailed analysis of touch sensitivity, controlling lines, disrupting an opponent's structure at the limb level, not just the more brute wedge going straight for the opponent's center. That works when you're a massive guy (Painter's biceps are truly a marvel for a man of his age, for example), but if you're substantially smaller than your attacker a wedge may or may not work without perceiving/controlling/disrupting limb structure, too. I basically wanted more detail on what Painter referred to in Volume One-- that each palm needed to be studied 100 hours to completely understand it. Well... how about some details as examples to lay some groundwork for that analysis? Basically, I want a Volume Three, and am somewhat disappointed that Volume Two was not my imaginary Volume Three. Still, given Painter's priorities (that is: combat) I can see why he chose to write what he did.

All in all, a refreshing book, because he's no-nonsense, reality-based... basically a train hard to understand the concepts and body awareness and applications, and be prepared. No fancy stories (although he generously quotes his instructor-- to excellent effect). A general principles and overview of concepts book with some nice examples, overall, but not a rigorous, more finely detailed analysis of the techniques.

For anyone seriously interested in learning internal martial arts applications, volume 2 is the entrance to a goldmine of information for the serious student or very interested reader. While volume 1 provides the body mechanics and internal principles without which the applications do not work, volume 2 give examples of the effectiveness of the art.

Every segment of this book provides information. Starting with understanding combat principles (too close/too far red-yellow-green zone concept, 3 to 1 rule, wedge, et. al.) each segment gives one or two examples of how they work. There are not enough trees in the world to illustrate each and every situation and indeed, students are taught to research each principle on their own to fully understand the feeling behind the theory. In this way, the book is true to how the art is taught, so that any reader understands that this art and its training are geared to prepare you to react to situations using principles rather than memorized movements and techniques.

All in all, a great companion book to volume one and on its own, a fascinating insight into training methods and ideas for the serious martial student.

I read this book with great interest after reading Volume 1. Truly it is a continuation of the first book. There are many elements that I love. The first is Dr. Painter's discussion of strength and agility training. It lent great insight to my own work-out. The second are the "myth-busting" of fairytale martial arts moves, where in many cases he says they MIGHT work in the exact right circumstances, but are not applicable to the street.

My favorite part of this book are the discussions of what street combat is really like, including a brief introduction to the legalities of using one's martial art skill. I think it is impossible to learn combat oriented martial arts without learning from someone with real life experience, which Dr. Painter has. I think no matter what art one practices, this book is an invaluable addition to the Martial Arts library.

I second other comments, I would love to see a 3rd volume!

If you've always wondered about the secret mysteries of martial arts, this book is for you. I have so many good things to say about this book that I'm not even sure where to begin. Make no mistake - this book is not for everyone. Dr. Painter explores some of the most very fundamental things we do as humans that contribute to our success in martial arts, including many things which we take for granted such as how we stand and walk. To excel in the martial arts, you need to take a step back and re-examine all of your physical habits. If you are looking for cool tricks, this book is not for you. But if you are looking for a truly deep understanding of human body mechanics as relates to speed and power generation, this book is for you. It's not just a bunch of do-it-because-we-always-do-it-that-way - Dr. Painter provides countless scientific studies to back up what he's saying. This is truly a book unlike any other.

Volume 1 of this book was very detailed in describing the fundamental basics of this art which is unlike most other typical Americanized Kicking and striking martial arts. I am currently practicing Jiulong Bagua and I have to say it is very difficult to master the concepts, far more so than traditional Hard style Karate (of which I have a Black Belt). Having both Volume one and two of these books has helped me to more deeply understand this "thinking mans" martial art.

Volume one of Dr. Painters book was excellent in rooting the reader in the fundamentals of this art, and this book picks up right where the other book left off giving god examples of applications. Volume two is really required reading if you are serious about learning Bauga. Worth every penny, really a bargain for all that you get with the many illustrations and well edited text.

Dr. Painters books on Combat Bagua are at the top of their class in the martial arts books category of which I have a large library.

I have been following the writings of Dr. Painter and the Jiulong Nine Dragon bagua system for over 20 years and these books are just the tip of the iceberg of what and how bagua can be used in street confrontations..

Dr. Painter's expertise on street combat comes from the use of his teachings and practice in the art for over 30 yrs, 20 of what have been used in real situations when he was a body guard and other aspects of the security field.. Bagua was one of the arts that the guardians of the silk road convoys used to protect their principles during their travels.. It is good to see how these proven arts are brought to the forefront of the 20th and 21st century aspects of real world situations..

I highly recommend these books along with the dvds/tapes for anyone who is interested in researching the progression of the Chinese internal arts as a means of street survival use..

I've studied with Dr. P before and I know what that guy on the cover feels like. A great system distilled with a western perspective.

For most effective results, pair this book with Combat Baguazhang: Nine Dragon System Vol. I.

Dr. John Painter is an excellent teacher. He excels in many ways, but one of the most important: he teaches in a way that is easy to understand. Study with Dr. Painter and you learn, and, you retain. Now he has put all of this into two books. Combat Baguazhang: Nine Dragon System, Vol. I and Vol. II gives you all the basics you need to learn self defense and to live a healthful, peace-filled life. Give these books a read then find a Nine Dragons SGL to help you learn. Or, better yet, visit The Gompa and learned from Dr. Painter and his highly skilled teachers. If you are interested in Baguazhang, other Chinese Internal Arts, or Internal Health, these books are a must! [...]. Combat Baguazhang Nine Dragon System, Volume Two

This is an excellent companion to volume 1 - ideally they would be sold together.

Some of the training games will require a partner, but there are plenty of solo training exercises demonstrated with equipment, too. This is real training leading toward combat effectiveness, though I think that (as with any martial art book) some supervision from an instructor will be needed for that - info is provided at the back of the book.