Customer Reviews

Conversations of Socrates (Penguin Classics)

5 star:		(10)
4 star:		(6)
3 star:		(0)
2 star:		(0)
1 star:		(0)

 

 

Very few extant works remain on the life of Socrates: mainly the works of Xenophon and Plato. In "Conversations of Socrates" Xenophon writes extensively on the philosophical thought of the master in a forthright and simple manner. Xenophon has not always been praised for his writing style but he covers the Socratic principles thoroughly. The subjects aren't organized particularly well with examples of Socrates' views on certain virtues scattered throughout the text. Nevertheless, since Socrates didn't write his own thoughts we are very fortunate that we have these works.

Xenophon divided his works into four books: Socrates' Defense; Memoirs of Socrates; the Dinner-Party; and the Estate-Manager. Xenophon writes in the second and third person so that we "hear" the Socratic Method throughout the text. We see how Socrates used questions of his followers to teach them to think. His method thoroughly flushed out the truth and often revealed the flaws in the arguments his opponents and followers made.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading Xenophon. One could almost imagine being right there with the master as he shredded the weaknesses in faulty arguments and uncovered hidden truths. His opinions on virtues may be dated to Twentieth Century people but one must remember that it was largely his teachings that had such a great influence on Western thought and ideas.

More on Socrates, especially for those who wish to know more after having exhausted Plato (which is no simple task). Only gets four stars because it comes across as being slightly less powerful than Plato, although, contrary to the translators opinion, appears to portray the historical Socrates more accurately (except for the final dialogue). Socrates' Defense presents the only other complete account of his trial, Memoirs of Socrates is a collection, The Dinner Party is about the notion of love, and Estate Manager is a dialogue about managing an estate. I have always find the presentation of dialogue preferable to essay (as in Plutarch).

While not as competent a writer as Plato, Xenophon's 'Socrates' is the historically more accurate (I refer to the chapter of Memoirs in this book.)The Dinner-Party was my favorite dialogue, there are also several brilliant vignettes throughout the memoir chapter. This is not to say that it doesn't 'drag' in parts, it does. The Estate-Manager, which is the last dialogue, terribly weighs down this volume; there Socrates is more a bystander than participant.

But I give this 5 stars, as its an indespensible volume for the Socratic enthusiast.

Xenophon relates an easy-to-understand text of who Socrates was and what he taught. It includes his defence, memoirs, dinner party, and estate-manager. Truly fine reading.

This is a very, very different portrait of Socrates from the one painted by Plato. Probably, if you are considering buying this book, you have studied Plato at least somewhat. Plato's and Xenophon's accounts of Socrates are views of the man from totally different angles. I very much enjoyed Xenophon's representation of Socrates as a character. There are some extremely funny stories. I especially loved the story of Socrates' "philosophical" encounter with the courtesan Theodote. I confess, though, that after reading this book I understand the role of homosexuality in Greek culture even less than I did before. But that bafflement, too, is part of the interest of the book.

Like others writing here, I like Xenophon as a writer much better than Robin Waterfield does -- or at least, I like Tredennick's and Waterfield's Xenophon much better than Waterfield himself likes Xenophon in Greek.

I thought Waterfield's introductions were excellent, but I recommend reading them after you read the original material, not before.

I don't know Greek, so I can't vouch for the accuracy of the translations by Tredennick and Waterfield, but I found them to be graceful and a pleasure to read. They always felt stylistically just right.

Like others writing here, I was frustrated by the lack of precise line numbering, and the lack of a note on the text.

Physically: the paper is cheap, but the font is large and clear. The book is relatively comfortable to hold open (always an issue with paperbacks).

This book definitely makes me want to read more of Xenophon.

[Disclaimer: I did not buy this book from Amazon, but I buy plenty of other books from Amazon.]

Good source to compare and contrast Plato's accounts. Significant part of this book is concerning 'the dinner party' converstaions of Socrates. I enjoyed this book because I was conducting research on Socrates and his 'ture' ideology rather than what we know from text books. Thus, it might not be very interesting to a reader who has not read Socrates prior to this.

I have always admired Xenophon. As a high school student I was in awe at his courage and extraordinary life. He was one tough "hombre." A warrior, a thinker, and a practical man who also knew farming and the equestrian art, he had been a student of Socrates'; in this book he allows us to get an additional glimpse of Socrates, beyond the well known Platonic accounts. The Socratic virtues Xenophon highlights are self-control, self-knowledge, and purity of life. Anyone who is attracted to those virtues will find much inspiration in Xenophon's "Conversations." I did not enjoy very much "The Dinner Party": call me homophobic, but I was never impressed with the Greek fascination for handsome boys. I also found "The Estate Manager" a bit too technical as a sub-urban, middle-class man of the XXI century. All in all, the translator ensured a smooth reading of the texts, for which he should be commended.

Nearly all those who studied Greek in high school were given a much distorted image of the Athenian (and certainly of the pedophilic Spartan) society. Who told us that the wealth of Athens was based on silver mines (the university city of Ioanina is still one of the world's biggest centers of the silver industry)? And who told us why Socrates was forced to commit suicide?
One can find the answers on many questions about Greek society in Xenophon's works, the clever writer of `Hellenika' (`All Persians are educated to become a slave, except one').
In his works about Socrates, Xenophon brushes a lively picture of the `real' Socrates and explains clearly his political views: 'Where offices were filled by men who satisfied the legal requirements, he considered the constitution to be an aristocracy; where they were filled in accordance with a property qualification, a plutocracy; where they were filled by anybody, a democracy.'
Socrates was an anti-democrat and defended oligarchy is his teachings.
What oligarchy really meant for the majority of the Athenians, one can also read in `Hellenika'. Describing the reign of the Thirty (comprising two uncles of Plato), Xenophon states: `The oligarchs went on a killing spree murdering all democratic opponents, more Athenians than all the Peloponnesians did in ten years of war ... when people could vote, it was in full view.'
Xenophon explains one of the main reasons for oligarchic rule in his rhetoric question: `if people uses its superior power to enact measures against the propertied classes, will that be violence rather than law?'
Socrates was a moderate anti-democrat, not as his pupil Plato who fulminated relentlessly against the democratic beast (Gerard Koolschijn). He respected the law: `He disobeyed the illegal orders of the Thirty on the ground that what he was ordered to do was illegal.'
He also was a moderate in his personal life (`to need nothing is divine').

Xenophon's works are key texts for understanding the ancient Greek society (daily life, morals, social issues, drink-parties, sex, politics). They are a must read for all those interested in human history and for all lovers of classical texts.

A must read for all who are in the pursuit of virtue and character development. Classic principles of behavior, no longer popular in today's culture, are detailed in easy to understand language.

I really enjoyed the effort Waterfield put into his introductions, both at the very beginning of the collection and before each peice of the collection. His examines the biographical, historical and dramatic aspects of each work with about as much detail as one could manage.

The translations are very readable, and supplemented by footnotes.

One issue: it is impossible to cite from Xenophon with this translation. Each page features of a range from which to cite at the top, but not specific margin numbers (where does 13.1 end and 13.2 begin? the page gives 13.1-14.7)

I believe Hackett is soon publishing this same collection. If I were reading Xenophon in the near future, I would take a look at that collection, which will hopefully have everything in this collection, along with proper margin numbers.