Customer Reviews

Deities and Demigods (Dungeons & Dragons d20 3.0 Fantasy Roleplaying Supplement)

5 star:		(8)
4 star:		(14)
3 star:		(6)
2 star:		(7)
1 star:		(1)

 

 

One thing I like about the 3E core rulebooks is it seems like WotC play tested the hell out of them. Nearly everything is fairly well balanced. Many aspects have been simplified from the 2nd addition in a good way (though sometimes too much.) Overall, I really like 3E and consider it worth buying.

Enter supplemental materials like Deities & Demigods. Let's take a look:

Chapter 1: Deities in Your Game -- Here's an abbreviated list of the sections:
Monotheism, Dualism, The Nature of Divinity, Why Mortals Worship Deities, Why Deities Use Mortals, Building a Pantheon, etc.

For me, this was the strongest aspect of the book. First, it explains different types of pantheons -- one God, vs. multiple gods/goddesses. Then it addresses a very key point: Why do divinities and mortals need each other? What is the relationship? As a DM, this part really helped cement that important concept.

Chapter 2: Deities Defined
The next section is another winner: How to make your own pantheon. In the previous chapter, there are tips for formulating your pantheon conceptually. How many? What domains? This chapter leads right into an explanation of the mechanics used in the book. So, you can take your idea for a new pantheon, and put it into d20 game terms.

Chapter 3 and on through the rest of the book:
I've heard complaints that there are only four pantheons in this book, compared to dozens from previous editions. Let me take a stab at why. Do you have a 3rd edition character, say, 10th level? My 10th level gnome druid takes up four pages worth of character sheet. Each of the gods & goddesses in this book are around 30th level or higher! Their stats take up a LOT of room! Thus, we are only given the Greyhawk, Olympian, Pharaonic (Egyptian), and Asgardian (Norse) pantheons.

Pantheon Strengths:
1) Some GREAT art: Ehlonna, Aries, Athena, Pan, Heimdall, Sif (yay!), Thor, etc.
2) Fully detailed d20 stats for each deity.
3) Maps for some deity-related dwellings.
4) We are told the deities will work well with the up and coming Epic Rules.

Pantheon Weaknesses:
1) Some painfully BAD art: Aphrodite, Dionysus, Ptah (and he is so cool!), Loki (this one really hurt me, I'm a big Loki fan), etc.
2) Very limited information about the deities themselves. This, to me, is the major shortcoming on this book. The info for dogmas, clergy & temples, etc., are each a short paragraph only. What does this tell us? Perhaps the game designers went a little overboard being able to actually make legal d20 stats for the deities, and didn't think enough about fleshing them out. I would have loved more background, more rituals, and more mythology for each deity. Granted, if you want to put these deities in a brawl, you've certainly got the stats!

Overall:
The 3E Deities & Demigods book has some vital information -- namely, the first few chapters. DMs and players alike will enjoy learning more about the place of deities and mortals within a D&D world. The rules for making your own pantheon are also very cool. After that, we have many, many stat blocks (with fairly limited background) for insanely powerful NPCs. Personally, I'm a stat fanatic, and enjoyed pouring over them. If they had only added another few paragraphs for each deity's background, religious holidays, expectations for their clerics, etc. I'd have given Deities & Demigods 5 stars. As it stands, it only gets 4.

While I haven't time for an in-depth review of Deities and Demigods, I would say that I think it's one of the finest products produced for the system yet. The two major arguments I've heard against the product here are:

1) Who needs stats for gods?

Fair enough, but it isn't as if this book is new to the D&D system. The idea goes back a very long way indeed and has been done more than once. I think once the Epic-Level Campaigns book is released this volume will seem more accessible as well as a more natural progression from the Player's Handbook. Indeed, it seems almost as if the third part of a trilogy was released before the second, but that in no way makes this any less of a fun, useful, and enjoyable romp. For those of you that see this as only a glorified Monster Manual, I say free up your imaginations!

2) It only details four pantheons.

True, but it covers them very well. I think this is preferable to having a mixed bag of gods that you can only really use if you play a truly worldly sort of campaign. My only real disappointment with the D&D/Greyhawk Pantheon was that I wanted much, much more of it than was offered. And I think if the biggest problem you have with a book is that you wanted it to be bigger, then you just have to do like I do...and pray for a Deities & Demigods II.

The book is simply excellent. It begins by describing topics such as the nature of divinity (how a deity became a deity, where their power stems from, etc.), how to create your own gods, your own pantheons and so forth. There is a list of divine abilities and divine feats for fleshing out deities you create...as well as explaining the powers of those listed within. But, enough of about the nuts and bolts, because we know what everyone's waiting for...the gods!

The D&D/Greyhawk Pantheon is a real plus for those of you who want a look at and description of the deities mentioned in the Player's Handbook. It also includes Tiamat and Bahamut (dragon deities), Lolth (Drow), and for some reason Kurtulmak (Kobold). The artwork is Fantastic and the stats given make perfect sense for truly far-reaching epic campaigns. As I said before...the only thing I want from this section of the book is MORE!

The remaining three pantheons are Olympian (Greek), Pharonic (Egyptian), and Asgardian (Norse) and each are detailed comprehensibly. There are of course a few players missing from the deck (such as Fenrir from the Asgardian section) but with an average of 20 gods per pantheon you'll have plenty of stuff to keep you occupied and drool over.

There are also original examples of monotheistic and dualistic faiths and a mystery cult. These are interesting to compare to the pantheons, especially as you're given details on creating your own, but I prefer the pantheon system as it adds more diversity.

The book also includes several monsters spread throughout (cyclops, faun, greater mummy, minions of set, valkyrie, etc.), a few prestige classes and a list of "new" Domains and spells.

My only hope is that this book will be followed up, much like the Monster Manual, with a sequel that will detail other pantheons (Celtic? Babylonian?) and include more D&D/Greyhawk gods such as those found in the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer.

Until then (assuming it ever happens) enjoy what is here. The seeds for a great deal of high-level fun, and low-level awe when Fharlanghn meets you on the crossroads at the beginning of your next adventure.

Oh, yes...and don't let anyone tell you otherwise: The artwork is far beyond "okay"...it is superb!

Not bad. I've been playing D&D for about 14 years now, so I remember Legend's and Lore for the other editions. Compared to the previous editions, Deities and Demigods 3E is MUCH more thorough regarding each pantheon and limits itself quite well. This book does NOT attempt to give a cursory look at everything but does go into great detail on 4 pantheons and gives rules to create your own religions. Great Job!

Now the bad news: How often does your character actually try to brawl with a diety? Hopefully never, or very rarely. How often do your characters interact with a deities church? A lot more often than meeting the actual deity. There is almost NO detail on how each deities' religions are set-up. MAJOR PROBLEM. Even if the designers wanted to leave room for the DM to create a church, why flub on this crucial issue? For a top notch D&D religion book, check out the 2nd edition Forgotten Realms religion sourcebooks. Deities and Demigods 3E doesn't even come close to this standard. It merely demotes deities from a position of awe and true deific standings to uber-monsters you would meet on the 20th level of a dungeon. Planescape is much better in outlining how deities and characters should interact.

This edition of "Deities and Demigods" is a very good addition to the realms of AD&D books. It's well written - and more importantly well edited. There's a great deal of information on Gods and how they interact with the game and how they should impact your campaign.

On the plus side, they have given much more detail to all levels of the pantheons and further defined divine abilities. Virtually all the characterizations, abilities and politics are spelled out for you in the books. All a dungeon master has to do is read the book and plug the his chosen pantheon into his campaign. It's a great help for a large number of dungeon masters. The artwork is also superb.

Now for the downside - such as it is. While they did an incredible job at bringing so much more detail to life, they only included three pantheons from world mythology. The Greek, Norse and Egyptian mythologies are great but it would have been nice to see something from Asia or Africa. There are so many more mythologies out there. The other, very minor, downside is the incredible level of detail (that is also a plus). They've take all the mystery out of everything divine. There isn't any level of divine mystery to shroud the inner workings of the Gods. Personally, I like that level of mystery so the players (who can read the book) never get too firm a handle on divine motivations.

Overall though the book is definitely worth getting for all the information it offers. The best advice I could offer with the book is to use the book as a general guideline and if your players read it - keep the level of mystery.

*Deities and Demigods* is pretty straight-forward.

It begins with some facile definitions of religious concepts e.g., "monotheism," "mystery cults," "animism," and the like; those who know this stuff will be pretty annoyed by it. It then continues this definitional discussion with notes on types of divinity, divine relations with mortals, and a pantheon-building schematic. Some brief repetition here of the standard Great Ring cosmology, distilled down from *MotP*.

The second chapter is the crunchiest section, with a listing of "divine ranks," as in *Faiths and Pantheons*, and then lengthy explanations of portfolios, divine abilities, and so on. Useful if one is building a pantheon, or foolishly plans on actually including deities in combats with PCs.

Next, a chapter that develops the official Greyhawk pantheon--each deity gets a full stat block. Generally, very similar to FR's *FP* in format and effect. Several gods not in the *PH* are noted here, such as the kobold Kurtulmak and (expanded from *MotP*) Tiamat and the Platinum Dragon.

Students of mythology might be a little annoyed by the following 3 chapters, which reduce Greek, Norse, and Egyptian myth down to 3E stat blocks. It is overall decently done for the game (whether anyone would actually use it is another issue), though much of the nuance, dynamic, and contradiction from the mythology is stripped away. Furthermore, the pantheons are incomplete--no Horus, Amun, or Khepera in the Egyptian section; no Nords, Fenrir, Midgarth Worm, Magni, Modi, etc in the Norse; and no Erinyes, Muses, Fates, etc etc etc in the Greek. But that's really not too big a deal, really--except for geeks like me who actually want to see all of the hundreds of minor deities for each mythos set in stat blocks ("What? No stats for the River Xanthus? No Persephone?") Fans of 2E's *Legends and Lore* might be annoyed that this text sacrifices breadth for depth--but do we really miss the stats for Arthur, Lancelot, and so forth? (Achilles would've been nice, however.)

The text ends with some examples of "other religions," with attention to how to design them--complete with PrCs and the like. Appendices featuring new spells and guidelines for "divine ascension" conclude the endeavor (perhaps silly, but in a good way, like *Throne of Bhaal*).

In terms of art, this text is by far the best that WotC has produced. Wayne Reynold's work is good, as usual, with Sam Wood's and Donato Giancola's being attractive also for differing reasons. Arnie Swekel is likewise very fine (his Set in particular), and Jeff Easley's Tiamat is pretty slick. The star for graphic design, however, is Glen Angus; the stylized portraits of Apollo, Athena, Heimdall, Sif, Surtur, Thor, and Tyr are easily the best in the text, and rival anything else published by WotC.

On the whole, this is not an essential text, though the rules for deities and pantheons are decent (one complaining amazon reviewer, who notes the lack of rules for churches, should of course read the title of the text again). In this way, it is much like *MotP*, where it attempts to provide a basic cosmological setup for orthodox games in progress as well as tools to build one's own cosmology. Insofar as it (and *MotP* for that matter) provide an introduction to such issues, *DD* is well accomplished; one looking for more advanced and developed information will of course need to spend more moneys.

The usefulness of this latest expansion book to 3rd edition D&D is limited, at best. Veterans of 2nd edition will notice many changes, of course, but its differences from 2nd edition deity/religion resources are of trivial importance.

What one might rightly expect from this resource is to have a new avenue down which to travel in the hopes of expanding one's Dungeons & Dragon's campaign by adding the intrigue of various religious groups and the intervention of meddling deities.

What you will get, though, is very different. The text detailing a deity's dogma, religion, and personality is painfully brief, and adds little to no insight into how to work the god's followers into your campaign. Having your players face off against fanatic worshipers of Vecna does sound like a fun idea, but after reading Vecna's entry, you will be left with no more information or insight on how to do this than after reading his brief description in the Player's Handbook.

Most of the content consits of very long descriptions of what any given deity can do in combat, and since deities are meant to be unchallengeable and immortal forces, it is most unlikely that you will ever have a need for this specific information.

Sadly, despite many peoples' personal hopes, Deities and Demigods is also all but devoid of any new prestige classes, spells, and monsters, and is literally devoid of new feats (except for those allowed only to gods and goddesses). Further, both of the prestige classes offered, rather than give clerics something to aspire to, are very frivilous and useless in most specialized campaigns (for example, one set in the Forgotten Realms setting, or any setting the DM has devised him/herself). The spell list is also very short and mostly consists only of domain spells, and the monster list is but two entries long.

The book's merits are not plentiful, but not entirely lacking. It does provide a collection of new domains the DM can use to make new deities, suggestions for how divinity can be obtained and lost, and four different pantheons to use, based on the Player's Handbook gods, the ancient Egyptian gods, the ancient Greek gods, and the ancient Nordic gods. There are also some tips for novice DMs on how to create your own pantheon.

All things considered, though, the gods have truly just become really strong monsters with the addition of Deities and Demigods. Unfortunately, any experienced DM will know that the gods virtually never have any business fighting with or against the players, and any creative DM can make up his own pantheons without the minimal aid provided by this book.

Unless your intent is on owning every D&D book around, this one is tragically not vital to your collection.

Primarily the sourcebook is a quick reference for information on Deities plus information for creating your own pantheon. The information is something that might be useful for a person new to the game that wants to create their own system of deities in their campaign. The rest of the sourcebook relies far too heavily on giving actual stats for powers rather than focusing on their religions, priests, and other important aspects of the deities.
I have not read or owned any of the previous incarnations of this text so I will not compare them. I will however compare it to On Hallowed Ground a second edition Planescape sourcebook. Of the powers that are covered they are comparable in religious information however Deities and Demigods included in depth stats and abilities on the powers something that On Hallowed Ground lacks. If you run a campaign that relies heavily on Deities battling each other or player characters that battle the Powers this information will be very useful. However Deities and Demigods does not have as many pantheons or powers focusing only on the general D&D (grey hawk), Greek, Egyptian, and Norse Deities.

Here are the chapter overviews and a few comments on them.

Chapter 1: Deities in your Game
A quick overview of how deities can fit into campaigns as passive, active and information on how the powers interact with their followers as well as other powers. Pretty simple stuff but it would be good for a player new to role-playing who desires to create a religious system of their own or quick reminders for an experienced gamer.

Chapter 2 Deities Defined
How Deities Powers work and explanation of Divine Rank or how the Powers relate to each other. This gives a few charts on what spells or powers they can grant but primary focuses on stating out gods which again unless you play a campaign with heavy planar politics or player characters that fight the Powers they are of little use.

Chapter 3: D&D Pantheon (Grey Hawk)
Chapter 4: Greek Pantheon
Chapter 5 Egyptian Pantheon
Chapter 6 Norse Pantheon
Chapter 7: Other Religions
Information on monotheistic religions and cults that may be involved in a campaign world.

Overall the product will be of little use in my campaigns because I am not a power gamer who has pc's fight the gods (or their avatars) nor do I heavily use direct battles between powers against one another (that's what followers are for). So if you want stats on the powers I believe this is the book for you otherwise I would skip the book and purchase something with better meat unless you are just dying for that extra sourcebook on gods that sits on your shelf looking cool.

Merits:

Artwork is good, few paragraphs of information on religion/followers for each deity.

Flaws

Limited number of deities, too much space wasted on physical stats of deities, and only generalist information on creating your own pantheon.
Funniest thing I noticed: In the Bahamut entry they actually stat he can hold his breath forever but go on to state that it doesn't really matter because he is a power and doesn't need to breath anyway! P.60

You think your characters won't ever face a god? Think again!

This, of course, is the long-awaited sourcebook on creating and playing D&D divine beings, from quasi-deity einherjar all the way up to supreme nameless deities. It has gobs of information in it; each deity's entry takes up almost two double-columned pages. You'll find out how to build your own deities, and to find out what they can do and how they can do it, and what the DM can do with them. Make no bones about it, this is a book purely meant for the DM (as one can tell by the blue cover). It does give option for PC deities, but those are kind of sparse, like they were really reaching for them.

What's good? It has mass quantities of data, and that's always a good thing. It's got great artwork, and it provides some good adventuring material; if nothing else, it gives the PCs something to shoot for. It also serves as sort of a preview for the Epic-Level Handbook; the divine salient abilities are often just several epic-level feats rolled up into one.

What's bad? Not really much. After a certain point, mass quantities of data lose their usefulness. I would've liked a bit more information on the default D&D pantheon's temples and clergy, but for the other pantheons one can find out more information at one's library.

All in all, it's a pretty good book for the DM. I'd like something like the Book of Priestcraft for more detail on the pantheons, but that's a campaign-specific issue.

This book did not present the pantheons in a very loving fashion, but instead used most of the pages for the pantheon presentation for statistics for deities. Most people would never use these statistics in their games. You will not get a good feel for the pantheons in this book. Steer clear. look into "Faiths and Avatars" and "Book of the Righteous" instead.

The difference between this D&D 3E book and the books of the same name from earlier editions is that the older versions treated deities as monsters. This book treats them as gods. Also, this book explores the many roleplaying possibilities associated with divine beings, from "what if my players meet up with one" to "how do I even start to get a sense of how to create my own pantheon." The ideas (philosophical and game-mechanics-wise) a gamemaster needs to consider are very clearly and thoroughly presented. Very well done!