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Did the reapers get weaker?


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Initial post: Jul 12, 2011 10:41:01 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2011 12:31:48 AM PDT
The reason i ask is because when one reaper attacks the citadel almost a whole fleet of human ships was destroyed. but now there looks like hundreds of them attacking and we are supposed to stop them doesnt seem to make sense to me unless they dumbed them alot

Posted on Jul 13, 2011 9:08:31 AM PDT
I have the same impression about the reapers. They are unstoppable and the combined human and aliens forces have no chance on paper. Reapers have been wiping out the galaxy every 50,000 years.

However, I don't think they will downgrade the reapers. Everything has a weakness and sheppard's quest to discover a way to beat the reapers will be really epic and unforgettable.

Posted on Jul 15, 2011 1:53:43 PM PDT
Are we simply assuming that the Reapers actually are defeatable in large numbers, and that the Mass Effect trilogy is building to a happy ending? What if the best that happens is that the Reapers are merely held off, and humanity must seek new refuge somewhere out in uncharted space? That would be dramatic and unexpected, and could be a great kickoff for the continued story of the Mass Effect universe after the Shepard trilogy concludes... I mean, EA has stated openly that they intend to keep this franchise going... :)

Posted on Jul 16, 2011 10:39:24 PM PDT
B. channels says:
tbh in the pass no one else knew what the Reapers really were the came, killed everyone/made them slaves before people knew what was happening. Now every race knows about them and can all band together

Posted on Jul 20, 2011 10:51:25 AM PDT
Well based on the trailers it looks like the Reapers definitely do some damage so it's not as if they're just fought off. Unless they're going to introduce space battles to the gameplay, I would imagine that Shepard will find a weakness and dispatch them that way. I definitely think it will be possible to get wiped out by the Reapers at the end though, probably depending on how many allied races Shepard can recruit.

Posted on Jul 29, 2011 8:21:09 PM PDT
Rackham says:
The thing is, sovereign took out a large part of the citadel defense fleet, and pounded a human response fleet to bits. Now, if you look at the latest gameplay, two things are happening. When hes running from an on-foot reaper (which dosnt just use one of its 8 shipkilling weapons to toast his light hovercraft???) Shepard knows exactly what reapers do to Turian Capital Ships, yet when running from one, hes firing a mid-sized machine gun at one, if he knew it wouldnt do damage, then he wouldnt expose himself. In the same gameplay, the Normandy, a stealth SCOUT frigate (in canon/codex) fires two missiles, each which knocks the reaper down and appears to do solid damage.
Now, considering the normandy cannot hold the line like a capital ship and has inferior armaments to every single ship involved in the battle of the citadel (it favors speed and steath), either A-Reapers got nerfed to the point where scout frigates can duke them out, or B-the normady will get an upgrade allowing its missiles to damage reapers, which means capital ships could support hundreds of these weapons online at once, resulting in the reapers getting their asses handed to them in any battle against a large unified fleet.

Either way, Bioware realized it wrote itself into a corner HARD with the citadel battle going as horribly as it did for the defenders, and is scrambling to to an ass pull to get them at a level where earth wont get overrun in minutes.

And im sorry if this sounds harsh, but im just looking at the canon, and the past ME1 reapers Vs the ME3 reapers, not making things up. I want ME3 to rock as much as all of you, seriously, its a great series, but every time they announce something new, im thinking back to the old games and realizing none of the new plot makes sense (just look at the codex!), they keep on tearing up what they made in ME1 without regard to the great universe they created, which kills the believable nature of the series.

Posted on Jul 30, 2011 4:53:40 PM PDT
But we can't forget that Sovereign also had a massive Geth fleet, it wasn't just one reaper, also a fleet of Geth. Besides that Sovereign was pulling power from the Citadel itself to supply its shields. I think that the Reapers are Bad A but not indestructible! ME3 is gonna be EPIC!!!!

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 31, 2011 3:13:29 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 31, 2011 3:13:52 PM PDT
Davidovich53 says:
>>>>>>>>>>&quot;...but every time they announce something new, im thinking back to the old games and realizing none of the new plot makes sense (just look at the codex!), they keep on tearing up what they made in ME1 without regard to the great universe they created, which kills the believable nature of the series."<<<<<<<<

Truer words have not been spoken. Well said, Rackham.

The "decline" of the Mass Effect franchise started when EA got involved. It's probably no surprise that ME, with each iteration, increasingly resembles one of EA's shooter franchises.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 31, 2011 8:30:52 PM PDT
twztid13 says:
agreed, and great posts Rackham!

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 1, 2011 12:39:43 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 1, 2011 12:45:03 PM PDT
I mean Sovereign had a massive Geth fleet, in a somewhat surprise attack (the council didn't believe you and the Alliance didn't get there until after the attack began), and the Normandy 1 is the ship that finished Sovereign off. It's not like it's just some average frigate, I remember the Fleet Admiral in ME1 saying the Normandy 1 cost as much as an Alliance Dreadnought, it's going to have a good arsenal. I still agree though, a reaper fleet would just rape everything.

Posted on Aug 2, 2011 7:54:01 PM PDT
Rackham says:
Thanks for the replies everyone. While I can agree somewhat with the comments of "Sovereign had the Geth Fleet" when it comes to Sovereign winning against the Destiny Ascension/Citadel Defense Force, the Citadels arms close around Sovereign, cutting off the Geth fleet, and when the human reinforcements go in, Sovereign fires one shots (this is one of eight guns EVERY reaper has, not counting the spine gun which is even bigger) that literally bisect human cruisers and other large offensive ships. This is all while he cant move and must endure salvo upon salvo of direct hits. Also, before that sovereign literally trucked a Turian Cruiser without stopping, meaning its shields can eat impacts with thousand-ton objects, so why in the ME3 gameplay did the Normandies missiles almost knock one down???

Also, if you can find a reference in the codex that says so, definitely my mistake, but I personally dont remember anything about the Citadel enhancing the reapers at all, considering the Reapers never intended to have to open the gate manually in the first place, them putting a booster there is unlikely (but again, if you have something in the codex that says Sovereign used the Citadel as a Power source, tell me). The citadel is not a base or build station, its just a trap really, any boosters or stuff left leaving power surges across the station would make its users (read:every major race) ask questions, on a station thats meant to be as subtle about its real purpose as possible.

I guess what all this adds to is that Geth Fleet or not, a reaper, as shown in ME1, can destroy dozens of full-scale attack ships, and thats while unable to dodge at all. Joker saying "That thing just pulled a turn that wouldve cut our ships in half" tells us these things are not only tough and deadly, but more fast and maneuverable than any ship, including the Normandy. Imagine if Sovereign just "ran laps" around the fleet instead of going for the station, it wouldve been a curbstomp battle with 8 or more ships getting lanced every time he made a pass, dodging their attacks the entire time. A mere 8-12 group of Reapers, as we can all guess, would take every major races fleets to take out.

I already said what was wrong with ME3 Normandy+Shepard vs Single Reaper. If ME3 has us/Shepard destroying the reapers in a way where reapers fall to single ships, small fleets, ground batteries, a half-baked plot device/"this gun kills reapers yay" or even the normandy, not only will the reapers getting nerfed be painfully obvious, itll be a huge disappointment for us after getting all amped up over this games final battle against the "unstoppable" machine race, that hype built on what the FIRST game showed us.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2011 6:14:55 AM PDT
"this gun kills reapers yay"

hahaha, I think i'd just put the controller down at that point and walk away

Posted on Aug 3, 2011 11:00:01 AM PDT
So the reapers are basically super advanced AI encased in super tough shells that look like cuttlefish.

Below is a paragraph from Mass Effect wikia:
-------------------------------------------
However, the Reapers are not invincible. When the Reapers go into states of hibernation between cycles, they are vulnerable. By taking refuge in dark space, the Reapers ensure they will not be discovered by accident and destroyed while they wait for their vanguard to open the Citadel mass relay. A concentrated effort by the fleets of organic races could also destroy a Reaper even if it is at full power: a single fleet managed to destroy Sovereign when its shields and weapons were disabled.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2011 11:38:43 AM PDT
Rackham says:
Dosnt matter we all played ME2 the reapers sure arent hibernating anymore,that just explains why theyre in deep space and taking so long to get to the galaxy. Think Sovereign, not the derelect reaper.

Posted on Aug 10, 2011 7:11:09 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 10, 2011 7:12:33 AM PDT
Personally, I took a couple different view points on this. There has been several years since Sovereign, which would have granted numerous technological advances I'm sure. Even if the Normandy now has these newer, more badassed missiles, that doesn't mean there's enough time/money to retrofit every ship with similar equipment. On top of this, Cerberus was upgrading the Normandy, and from what I've read previously, the Alliance reverse engineered it when you go back to Earth. Just becuase the technology is there now, doesn't meant it's readily available yet. Look at the fight between the Normady 1 and the Collector's ship compared to the Normandy 2 and the same ship. The new tech completely switched the battle around. As noted before, Sovereign had a geth fleet w/ him, and while it was only him in the Citedal, it was still a new enemy that's not yet been encounted. When facing traditional ship to ship combat and then facing an enemy of superior capability w/ 8 giant tenacle laser, I'm sure your normal tactics are worth crap and people panic. Plus, Sovereign very well could have been one of the more powerful Reapers, which is why they kept him behind. Not every ship is the same, nor is every person. I doubt every Reaper has the same "specs". On top of this, we've only seen a single Reaper in space combat. I'm assuming being in atmosphere would significantly reduce their mobility, so combating them on planet would probably greatly assist. While this might not make a tremendous difference, every little bit helps.
Of course, this is also me rationalizing what I've played/seen; with no thought as to how EA has butchered some of it. As for the new video w/ Shepard shooting at a Reaper, I've not seen it. Very well could just be he's setting a distraction for someone else to escape/attack it. Without actually seeing it, that could be completely irrelevant.
Just my 2 cents of babbling.

Posted on Aug 12, 2011 1:14:34 PM PDT
John Galt says:
"Reapers have been wiping out the galaxy every 50,000 years."

The key to the Reapers was their pattern of destruction. Their ability to download all knowledge of the civilizations through the Citadel and then take out communications & leadership, so the other worlds could not work together.

The last time it happened, the Reapers had to fight for years to finally achieve their goal. I don't see how the Reapers are going to win this war easily. They can't do what they did in the past. The element of suprise is gone and the secrets of the Citadel are known.

If the Reapers were so unstoppable, then why hide their existence and why the sneak attack? They are fallible and I'd imagine Shepard will find it.

Posted on Aug 12, 2011 1:18:57 PM PDT
John Galt says:
Woodall,

If their shields are down, special missiles might not be needed. Since they are machines, a virus could work (put them in sleep mode?). Possibly discover artifacts from the people that created them in the first place.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 18, 2011 6:27:40 AM PDT
"If the Reapers were so unstoppable, then why hide their existence and why the sneak attack?"

They don't "hide". They hibernate, wait for civilization to grow, then go harvest it to create more reapers. They had to fight so long last time because they had to hunt down people in hiding.

Posted on Aug 18, 2011 12:08:05 PM PDT
John Galt says:
Hide and hibernate are not mutually exclusive. They do hibernate in the far edges of space to ensure they are not found. I call this hiding.

Posted on Aug 18, 2011 8:29:51 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 18, 2011 8:32:12 PM PDT
Foxdrake says:
If the entire Reaper fleet is attacking earth and the combined citadel and earth fleets barely destroy 1 Reaper ship with support of a the Geth, consider this...

All the Reapers are attacking Earth.
Element Zero (from Mass Effect 2) causes a Star to become "unstable" (Remember what Talia was investigating?).
Shepard launches an Element Zero weapon into the Sun.
The Sun explodes in a champagne "super-nova."

The Sun is destroyed.
The Earth is destroyed.
The Reapers are destroyed.
Humanity is destroyed.

Humans become the "Jesus" of civilizations, sacrificing itself to save everyone else.

Heck, if I was Sheppard I'd pull the trigger!

Posted on Aug 19, 2011 7:41:49 AM PDT
If humanity is destroyed, sheppard fails and ME3 disappoints millions of fans.

So far sheppard only knows the reapers from the vision on eden prime and the chat with soverign on vermire. He needs more information and I am hoping there will be a mission for that on ME3.

Posted on Aug 19, 2011 11:13:47 AM PDT
Why are we assuming all reapers are exactly alike? The human-reaper larva at the end of ME2 demonstrates that there are/could be other types of reapers. Sovereign, the vanguard, may have been exceptionally strong due to its need to be active for those 50K years. In the ending of ME2, when Harbinger & co start going 'on foot', they may look alike superficially, but we can't draw conclusions about strengths & capabilities.

Good posts above. Throwing out some more random theories:
- leading up to the Derelict Reaper, the Elusive Man talks about that Great Rift Valley and comments that "we found both the weapon and the target" but then never mentions the weapon again. Hmmm...
- based on your decisions in ME1, ME2, and probably ME3, all sorts of fringe factions may help you. Quarians may come out of no where and tech-infiltrate. The Rachni - remember the Queen? Maybe the Geth join you - with their previous relation to Sovereign, they may know some weaknesses. (Now if it's as simple as saying "Sleep." like Locutus, well, then Bioware really has fallen under EA!)

Let's not get our expectations toooo high, anyway, should be a great game! :D

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 19, 2011 5:42:58 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 24, 2011 4:16:00 PM PDT
Foxdrake says:
Well let me "correct" that...maybe "humanity" isn't destroyed but it could take a beating! Think of what happened to the Vulcans in the StarTrek reboot? So the Earth gets blown up and 10 billion humans die.

So what?

There's probably enough to repopulate the species on the colony worlds. So the remaining humans (with Citadel protection), which, even with the loss of the homeworld, leaves millions on the colonies to, start over again on a "new" homeworld.

I could live with that. It's a fair trade to end the reaper threat for the entire universe...and everybody would owe us, big time.

The more I think about it, the more I like it. Earth is over-populated anyway...

Posted on Aug 31, 2011 7:44:53 PM PDT
Turgul says:
Sovereign also was not a

Spoilers

Prothean reaper. It could be that the reapers purposefully left behind their strongest ships in order to ensure their return. Also, Reapers modeled after the Protheans could in theory be weaker. Also Cerberus could have learned enough from Shepards mission to the Reaper factory to design weapons that are more effective against them.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2011 3:12:12 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 2, 2011 3:18:55 PM PDT
Not to mention that it had the fleets enclosed in a still-slowly-opening citadel. Think barricaded target (in tactical circles, it's well known that it takes about 9 people to overcome the single barricaded target) here + fish in a barrel. Add to the fact that the fleets really don't know what they're facing other than a monster ship.

Now, think about a galaxy aware of these things. Also think of those nice new weapons the SR-2 got in ME2, which are miniature reaper cannons.

Also, the Reapers are there to enslave, so they can't simply just pound the planet into scrap, or pound every single being (especially one as desirably-enslavable as Shepard) into paste. Also, friendly fire? Hundred of reapers means they need to check their fire. They don't seem to be the fratricidal types.

Plus, how do we know that Earth will survive? It could be that humans take totally to the stars and evacuate Sol (a common theme in some of the more classic sci-fi stories... how Earth's demise comes about is always different), and the fight is to contain the reapers TO sol with Earth as a write-off. Humanity can still survive considering how many humans have migrated to the stars, so losing Earth, while a major blow to the Alliance, won't destroy humanity.
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Discussion in:  Mass Effect 3 forum
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Initial post:  Jul 12, 2011
Latest post:  Feb 7, 2012

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