Customer Discussions > Bioshock 2 - PC forum

Do not buy it: SecuROM!!!

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Initial post: Jan 23, 2010 5:38:34 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 23, 2010 5:39:22 PM PST
After the total mess and scandalous launch of the SecuROM-infected Bioshock in 2007 one would think 2K took the time to avoid another disaster - apparently they are either TOO STUPID or TOO ARROGANT because it is ANOTHER SecuROM-scandal in the works:

"Over the past two days, I've fielded a lot of questions and concerns about the DRM for both the retail and digital versions of BioShock 2. Because of this feedback, we are scaling back BioShock 2's DRM.

There will be no SecuROM install limits for either the retail or digital editions of BioShock 2, and SecuROM will be used only to verify the game's executable and check the date. Beyond that, we are only using standard Games for Windows Live non-SSA guidelines, which, per Microsoft, comes with 15 activations (after that, you can reset them with a call to Microsoft.)

What does that mean for your gameplay experience? This means that BioShock 2's new DRM is now similar to many popular games you advised had better DRM through both digital and retail channels. Many of you have used Batman: Arkham Asylum as an example to me, which uses the exact same Games for Windows Live guidelines as us as well as SecuROM on retail discs, and now our SecuROM is less restrictive on Steam.

I know that the variables of PC gaming can be frustrating and confusing, and when you say there is a problem, we listen, and use your suggestions to make things better. Feedback like this does not go unheard, and while this might not be the ideal protection for everyone, we will continue to listen and work with you in the future when formulating our DRM plans."

There you go, straight from 2K's DRM-mouthpiece. Be happy, you don't have to deal with TWO ACTIVATION SYSTEMS, only one which is based on Microsoft's already PoS GFWL crap...

...seriously: are you 2K people really this DUMB?

I mean SecuROM for "disc check"? Really, you really think we will eat this crap?

And when you put one online activation place which is REQUIRED FOR EVEN SUCH BASIC FEATURES AS SAVING your game status, why would you want to do a "disc check" especially with one of the most disgusting, illegal, evil malware-based DRM?

On top of all these insults why on Earth would you use it on Steam which, unlike Sony's utter crap rootkit SecuROM, IS effective?

Wow, another giant, big, hairy SecuROM-scandal is about to break out... can't wait, I want to see it go nuclear so more and more people will ask for actions against Sony et al.

Posted on Jan 30, 2010 8:15:44 PM PST
Thanks for the warning! I will not be purchasing this game in protest!

Posted on Feb 1, 2010 11:31:37 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 4, 2010 9:56:45 AM PST
NeuroSplicer says:
Using SecuROM as a simple disk-check has become a compromise most gamers (myself including) are willing to accept. But that is the red line. UBISOFT, EA and most major game publishers/developers realized that insulting your customers (by requiring OnLine Activation) or trying to steal back the game you just sold to them (by Limiting the number of its Installations and turning it into a rental) is ...not the best way to earn their loyalty. Not to mention their hard-earned money.

Like its notorious predecessor, BIOSHOCK 2 will come with both an OnLine Activation requirement and Limited Activations. And no this draconian DRM scheme will have absolutely no affect on piracy (anyone cares to google "Bioshock 2 torrent" around the days of its release?).

I finally bought my own copy of BIOSHOCK together with OBLIVION for $9.99. I'd say about $5 is a fair price for a rental like BIOSHOCK.

Obviously 2K GAMES refuses to wake up and smell the coffee. They still think that their product is so good that customers will jump through hoops for the ...privilege of buying it at premium prices. The original Bioshock was good but not THAT good. And in case they missed it, there is a full-blown recession out there now.

Well, pride usually precedes ruin.

Posted on Feb 2, 2010 10:54:18 AM PST
NeoTristan says:
Bioshock 2 comes with DRM that is just as bad as the one on the first Bioshock, and comes with similar DRM as the one on 2K's own GTA IV.

SecuROM on the game disk is, in fact, just a version of SecuROM that only does disk-check, and by now, you can handle SecuROM without too much trouble if you've been with PC gaming for a long time. However, MS GFWL is a requirement that force mandatory online activation and 15 installation limit.

2K's PR mantra is that there's no DRM since the DRM that comes with the disk only does disk-check, which is misleading. SecuROM disk-check is still DRM, however mild and non-invasive it might be. Many gamers have surprisingly high tolerence level of DRM and many even knows how to handle them. What we won't accept as substitue under any circumstance is online activation and / or installation limit, which is totally unlawful and illegal business practice that hinders our constitutional rights under the law of the country and against some publishers' own EULA. MS GFWL is the required architecture that needs to be embedded within the source code, and with GFWL embedded working as extra layer of DRM on top of DRM that enforces online activation and installation limit.

Posted on Feb 2, 2010 10:38:53 PM PST
Luk3 says:
Skipping this.

I won't buy games for the PS3 or 360 or Wii anymore due to the simple fact you are paying the same price you did when you got a suitable case for the game. Today you get a case with the third of the plastic cut out for the same price. No thanks.

As for buying for the PC, was considering it, but not anymore. 15 installs then you must call India and beg to use the product you bought but turns out you rented. I don't think so.

Boycott this game people. And not just for the PC but for the consoles as well. PC games are slagging behind console. We need to let the industry know we won't buy their games for any platform if they keep pulling this.

Posted on Feb 3, 2010 11:29:44 AM PST
Jonathan A says:
no Bioshock 2 for me, and I won't buy it for my ps3
I will wait for Bad Co 2!

Posted on Feb 3, 2010 2:33:18 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 3, 2010 2:33:40 PM PST
M. Moore says:
You can probably hack GFWL. We sure as hell know how to hack SecuROM ( for more info).
Borderlands has pretty much free multiplayer with a gamespy account, which is also free.

Posted on Feb 3, 2010 2:37:09 PM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Feb 4, 2010 7:59:28 AM PST]

Posted on Feb 3, 2010 6:07:10 PM PST
J. Schwarz says:
I was considering buying this game because I thought it would have less crapola than the first one but I see I was wrong. I never bought or played the first one and will definitely not buy the second. So thanks for the heads up guys, I really appreciate it. These companies have to learn the hard way.

Posted on Feb 4, 2010 5:24:14 AM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Feb 4, 2010 8:04:29 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 4, 2010 5:28:43 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 4, 2010 5:59:10 AM PST
NeuroSplicer says:
Who exactly is "we" M.MOORE?
Because a brand new Profile with no other contributions save these comments defending BIOSHOCK 2 - I am starting to get the picture...

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 4, 2010 5:56:01 AM PST
J. Schwarz says:
Hey Moore, noob you say? Look smart one, I've been playing computer games since they first came out and most likely before you were toilet trained. You probably aren't old enough to remember the all text games with no graphics and no disc drives but instead using a tape recorder to install the program. So I think I've been around the block longer than you. Mayber you are comfortable with screwing up your computer with DRM or limited installs where you rent the game but I am not. I remember the great games with none of the crapola they have now where you actually got your money's worth. So to sum it up you sound like a fan boy working for the company and towing the company line, but if you aren't, enjoy your limited installs and the potential of computer malfunction while I skip this one. I am sure many gamers will agree with me.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 4, 2010 7:28:03 AM PST
Exactly my thoughts, NS...

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 4, 2010 9:15:11 AM PST
NeuroSplicer says:
...and M.MOORE has left the building.

Let's see what else the cat will drag in.

Posted on Feb 4, 2010 12:39:11 PM PST
Activation limits or required connection to the Internet is where I draw the line. Another game I won't get to play until it is in the bargin bin and hacked.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 4, 2010 7:36:48 PM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Feb 5, 2010 7:22:00 AM PST]

Posted on Feb 4, 2010 7:53:00 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 4, 2010 8:03:41 PM PST
J. Schwarz says:
Brian the second, personally who cares what you think or why you think it? If you want to play a DRM infested game with limited installs and rent the game then more power to you. Obviously you haven't a clue about anything but continue to live in your narrow world without knowing what is going on. Maybe if you bothered to educate yourself as to all the people who had their computers messed up then you would understand where we are coming from. I think this guy doeth protest too much. Thanks again Brian the second for your insightful unknowing input. I am sure you swayed the masses with your argument. Oh, and are you sure your real name isn't Moore?

Posted on Feb 4, 2010 8:24:45 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 4, 2010 8:31:51 PM PST
Brian says:
BioShock was updated to have no installation limits (I may be wrong here-it may have just been lifted, but I remember something about an update patch or that newer disks were being shipped without a limit) but I am absolutely sure of this: BioShock 2 (as stated in the article I linked) will have a 15-activation limit, and when you reach that point, you can HAVE THE LIMIT RESET OVER THE PHONE. And to make my point even more clear, even if there WAS a limit for BioShock 2, 5 or 15 installations seems fair enough even STILL considering the game makes up for it - but I personally agree that WE bought the title and deserve unlimited installations because we paid for it, as do all console owners who can lend the game to whoever they want and the game can be played as many times as wanted.

To even FURTHER clarify my point: Still, a limit SHOULD NOT prevent a person from buying and playing the game. What if a person was really looking foreword to BioShock 2 for their beast PC and they find out SecuROM comes with it. You think this person is going to give up those awesome Saturday nights killing splicers and using plasmids because of some stupid irremovable file or installation limit? NO. I at least would not, and if this is what you mean by my narrow world then you can go **** yourself; honestly!

AGAIN, you idiots DO NOT GIVE YOUR REASONS OF WHY DRM IS SO BAD. YOU, again, SAY IT is bad and say it is infested and not worth it, but have no valid reasons.

And you say people had their computers messed up. Well I have never heard of that and never experienced it, and you never gave me a link, and if it is true then it was probably a downloaded copy (besides Steam; in other words, a torrent). Either way, BioShock never messed up my computer and no one I have talked to or read on online ever got their "computers messed up" from BioShock.

It will be funny to see tons of people replying with the same "DRM is bad and your opinion is so stupid" without any valid reasons or proof to support it. I am the one with a narrow world? Wow, idiots these days.

So, what IS going on? What is it I don't know about SecuROM? What is it about my "narrow world" that seems so false? I would like to be told right now in the face and see you prove yourself.

And no, my name is Brian.

EDIT: Oh I see, this Moore guy is some one who got removed from the discussion. Well, I am not "moore," but I see why some of my false language may discourage I censored the worst ones myself though. And,, please consider my arguments before getting a bad idea about me. Do you not see all these people commenting saying they won't play BioShock 2 for PC because of internet requirements? Think; WHY would this internet connection requirement bother you? It makes me laugh because it is so far away from annoying that I find it extremely idiotic for multiple people to post such comments. Only if you don't have internet may there be a problem, but I believe some one who has enough money to pay for the required hardware AND the game has enough money to pay for basic internet service, and even still almost every one with a computer gets internet in some way.

Posted on Feb 4, 2010 8:57:04 PM PST
J. Schwarz says:
Sorry to disagree Brian the second, but let us do what you stated and think. Now why should I have to call anybody and have my limit reset over the phone? I really don't want to be bothered. Suppose just for arguments sake that the company goes out of business and then I am stuck with an expensive coaster. Or suppose they tell me that they are not going to give me another 15 installs because remember it is at their descretion and they really could tell me to take a hike. And don't tell me it hasn't been done before because it has and I really don't feel like begging anyone for installs I feel I am entitled to get without the begging. Now Brian can you explain to us all why you are so vocal in your support of this game? Why does it matter to you, or are you just worried that I won't experience the wonders of Bioshock 2? Really Brian, I appreciate that you care so much for my gaming experience, but guy I am truly not that interested in playing this game and all that it brings. Now if you were truly interested in my gaming experience you would get on the phone and tell the company that we don't need no stinkin DRM and limited installs because seriously they are meaningless so why did the company put them in the game? If they want me to buy then they have to please me and so far they have failed to do so. There are plenty of other games out there that don't make me jump through any hoops. You have to love people who really care about other people's gaming experience.

Posted on Feb 4, 2010 10:07:38 PM PST
Brian says:
Ok, I understand. You want to miss out on BioShock 2, and that is fine with me, as I will be playing it. Maybe one day you will realize that it is no big deal (the DRM) but for now you will be missing out (a beta tester told me the game is excellent)

As for me, installing BioShock was no harder than installing Roller Coaster Tycoon 2 or any game I ever installed on my computer. I didn't have to jump through any hoops either, literally and figuratively. You still don't provide your reasons clearly, but it really doesn't matter now as I see whatever I say to you gets destroyed by a brick wall and never gets to your head.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2010 7:13:48 AM PST
J. Schwarz says:
And Brian, whatever I say to you is like talking to a brick wall. Why are you so concerned with my gaming experience? Is it possible you may have other motives that you have not made us aware of? There is absolutely no reason on earth for the company to have put in effect a 15 install limit or DRM since it's been proven that it doesn't work. So why is it there? The gaming community has already spoken out on this issue so it is obvious the company couldn't care less about the feelings of the gamers nor do you. Personally a company that does not consider the feelings of its legitimate customers is not a company I would like to deal with. They have to get the message that going against the wishes of the community is going to cost them, and I hope it costs them big time. There are plenty of other games out there that have used a more benign form of DRM that is acceptable like Fallout 3 or Risen which have no limits. So if I were working for the company I would certainly try to persuade them to get rid of the limits and the other crapola or suffer the consequences. I hope you and they get the message.

Posted on Feb 5, 2010 7:20:14 AM PST
Scatt3rbrain says:
I agree with Brian. How far down the line of time will that copy you buy be after 15 installs? 15 INSTALLS!!!! I pre-ordered the original when it was released and I have only installed it on three systems, and twice on one (upgraded from Vista to Windows 7). Are you really going to install it 15 times before its value has dropped to what the original Bioshock is at right now? Used copies of that are selling for the price of a rental... 15 installs. Seriously. Even if you installed it on a new PC every month it would take over a year to reach the limit! I could see the argument's validity if they limited it to 5 or less installs... 15 installs is more than plenty to get my money's worth, though.

When so many people pirate games these days I see the reasoning behind these limits. It's not evil; it's making sure the people who made this game get paid. Every GFWL game I have does NOT require me to be online and signed into it to play, btw--it is a nice feature to bring to the table though. I like being able to network with other players and collect achievements like console players have the luxury of doing. Steam allows this, too, but not with every title. Everyone says it is stupid and evil but it really isn't--it's stupid and selfish to moan over the rather lenient limitations set forth by 2K and fail see that it's working fine for and appreciated by a lot of people.

Moan all you want about the ethics behind the issue; the fact of the matter is it is here to stay as long as people feel the need to steal these games. If I were a developer I would be in full support of making it harder for people to do so; I'd want to make my money and get a nice bonus for a well-to-do game. 15 install limit and the OPTION to run through GFWL is a great middleground to keep customers satisfied while attempting to keep tabs on piracy.

Posted on Feb 5, 2010 7:38:19 AM PST
J. Schwarz says:
Well Randall then enjoy the game with its limited installs. I guess you just don't understand the big picture yet, do you? There should be NO install limit if you legally purchased the game. The fact is that if people want to steal the game there is no problem doing that. The piracy issue is just a lot of hogwash isn't it? I would think that most legitimate gamers will avoid this game like the plague. As long as there are people like you who support the company line things will never change but only get worse. All the company is doing is chasing away its legitimate customers and losing sales. If they want the gamers to buy this game then they have to stop trying to screw us over. Really, who cares what you think, it's what I think that counts. And I think I will never purchase this game as long as there are install limits and on line saves. So maybe you think this choice of DRM is a great middle ground but I think most gamers will disagree with you. Deal with it.

Posted on Feb 5, 2010 7:53:51 AM PST
Jesus, someone, PLEASE, for the sake of this topic, EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN INSTALLATION AND ACTIVATION - I'm full of these clueless mouthpieces coming here and loudmouthing stupid corporate PR BS (Randall, Brian etc) without even knowing WTH are they talking about...

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2010 9:27:29 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 5, 2010 10:27:47 AM PST
H. Le says:
Informed Customers know that there are well-beyond-excellent odds that Bioshock 2 will be cracked on day one of release -if not day zero. DRM is a mean to restrict Customers' rights; piracy is a convenient pretext for DRM.

Aside from SecuROM, some game publishers claimed that GFWL is not DRM in a legal sense - but it can certainly be used as DRM as we see here. However, regardless of the fact that GFWL is also useless agaisnst piracy, we need to keep in mind that in a way, the publishers are correct; that is, GFWL is not really an anti-piracy device, it is a proprietary device. In a bigger picture, MS is teaming up with the publisher to turn PCs into a proprietary gaming machines (ever try to use non-Xbox360 controller on Batman:s Arkham Asylum ?) Currently, there is an offline account mode for GFWL, but I wonder if it will always be there.

At any rate, don't let publishers use piracy to obsfucate the DRM issues - which some of the Customers also inadvertently help by concentrating the arguments on piracy and missing out on the bigger picture. Not that piracy do not exist, but considering the fact that the PC is an open system with unparalled flexibilty which provides virtually endless self-help and modding capibilities, so it is easy to see that it is also more open to hacking. Consequently, since publishers know that they are powerless against the pirates, they choose to go after the Customers instead - with unsolicited help from the pirates by using anti-piracy as an excuse.
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Discussion in:  Bioshock 2 - PC forum
Participants:  22
Total posts:  94
Initial post:  Jan 23, 2010
Latest post:  Mar 2, 2010

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