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Showing 1-9 of 9 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Apr 24, 2007 6:30:39 PM PDT
Here's a link to an article that I gather summarizes some of the points in this book:

> Fascist America, in 10 easy steps
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html
> From Hitler to Pinochet and beyond, history shows there are certain steps that any would-be dictator must take to destroy constitutional freedoms. And, argues Naomi Wolf, George Bush and his administration seem to be taking them all. <

She makes valid points, but does she overstate the case? We are not yet, for example, seeing widespread detention of dissidents - Cindy Sheehan, Amy Goodman, and Michael Moore would, one would think, have been rounded up by now if the Bushies were serious. Or maybe the point is that the Bushies have found subtler ways to institute totalitarianism?

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 25, 2007 9:55:54 AM PDT
Tom Paine says:
I think Ms. Wolf's book is meant to show us how our present and future resembles the past of facist and totalitarian countries in very sinister ways. The point of her book is to awaken citizens before it is too late. She herself says in the excerpt you mention that the arrests of high profile individuals have not yet started but all the steps leading up to that point have already been put in place. I sincerely hope this book is not ignored.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2007 9:05:39 AM PDT
With all due respect...please do some research...if 911 and the Afghanistan/Iragi war alone aren't enough widespread dissidents for you...not to mention the people currently detained, mysteriously died or disappeared...it's only 'subtle' to those that choose not to make themselves aware. If we have to wait for Michael Moore to make a film, we're in biggger trouble than I thought. Familiarize yourself with the recent Executive Orders and come to your own conclusions. Even if only obtaining a 1/4 of the infomation covering the subsequent initiatives of this administration and those leading up to it, it doesn't take rocket science to see where we're headed. We have access to infinite intelligence...seek and you shall find. The responsibility is on 'us'.

Connect the dots.
Naomi did 'just that'.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 27, 2007 7:59:34 AM PDT
P. Nugent says:
How about widespread detention of "terrorists" in military and "secret" prisons? This may just be the early stage - a prelude to things to come.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 27, 2007 3:02:38 PM PDT
Kurt Keefner says:
Wolf seems to working on the wrong model. We aren't in a "slipping into totalitarianism" phase, a la Germany 1933. We are in a "repression in time of war" phase a la the US 1917-25. (The post-WWI part of this phase covers the perceived Bolshevik threat, which was in a sense an extension of the war.)

To put this all in perspective, consider the US government's intervention in people's lives during WWII. There was widespread rationing and near-collectivization of industry, but most importantly, tens of thousands of Japanese immigrants and citizens were imprisoned without due process of any kind. All this is bad, of course, but my point is that it was not in any way a prelude to fascism or the like.

Bush and friends should be reined in, yes, but other than his term expiring in 16 months, the best solution to our repression problem could be to find a way either to defeat or live with Islamic fundamentalism. Maybe we should focus on these goals and stop overreacting. Hysteria does not cure hysteria.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 11, 2007 11:11:14 PM PDT
C. Majors says:
I might agree with you, but for the fact that Bush&Co have made it quite clear that this is to be a new kind of war, a "long war". This is not a temporary abrogation or suspension of our liberties over a relatively short period of time while we summon our resources to deal with a threatening foe. No -- this is meant to be a fundamental shift away from freedom in our way of life. As someone pointed out earlier this year, we've already been in Iraq for longer than the entire WWII, with no end in sight. And the really useful thing about a "War on a Fearful Inchoate Tactic" is that even after the war in Iraq *is* forced to draw down, the War itself will go on and on.

Yes, of course the threat from Islamic fundamentalists is real. (So is the fascist threat from Christian fundamentalists.) Bill Maher put it well, when he quipped that "Bush says they hate us for our freedom, so he's doing all he can to destroy it. Then maybe they won't hate us anymore!" If Maher is too much of a left-sympathizer for your tastes, then how about the Economist? The issue from a couple weeks ago had a spot-on cover article, the first part in a series about civil liberties. I encourage you to read it: http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9833041

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2007 3:28:06 PM PST
BruceK says:
This is the right question to ask, but in this modern day as Noam Chomsky is fond of mentioning, one does not use force to repress, other means must be used to maintain decorum. Character assassination in the media, harrassment and other methods that are not so apparent. Removing people's way to make a living, or business contacts. I am not sure, but I do not rule it out. Look at the media these days, who can deny something is going on?

What I blame the Bush administration for is the way they have behaved. They were arrogant, unilateral, belligerent, of course they generated comparisons with the fascists, it was almost like the intended to so that people would make the quick comparisons so those same questions would look ridiculous later.

The other side is that if the dissidents are not being attacked or repressed the cronies, the ones who go along are received so much money that is boggles the mind. when things explode if they do, not having millions of dollars to defend onesself may be the same as being attacked. The realities are changing faster than anyone can comprehend, which accounts for people's disorientation ,and the administration has only aggravated that. Not only with Americans, but all over.

I think it is time to realize that we have a group of people that are hardcore aristocratic elitists in the US, and they will not go away, they will not relinquish power, and they in fact intend to extend their power, and through America to the rest of the West and the world, using American might. They will just keep at this and at this and amassing gargantuan piles of money hidden from the governments of the world and buying off people until they succeed.

What is going to have precedence in the world, people or money? That is the question.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 7, 2008 2:49:43 PM PST
M. Nobuoka says:
Don't forget the 2 million people in American jails -- about 7 million are under correctional supervision. Most of them are "dissidents" of the drug war or picked up because they are not white. Most of them committed non-violent crimes. This doesn't even compete with China.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 7, 2008 3:11:58 PM PST
M. Nobuoka says:
Kurt wrote:
"...the best solution to our repression problem could be to find a way either to defeat or live with Islamic fundamentalism."

There are other solutions. One is to not partake in the so called "clash of civilizations". Don't buy into the either/or scenarios that are being sold to you.

BTW, more than 120,000 American citizens of Japanese ancestry were interned by the US gov. A small point, but "tens of thousands" seems to minimize the number.
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Participants:  8
Total posts:  9
Initial post:  Apr 24, 2007
Latest post:  Mar 7, 2008

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The End of America (Book & DVD Bundle)
The End of America (Book & DVD Bundle) by Naomi Wolf (Paperback - March 2, 2009)
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