Doyle Brunsons Super System
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411 of 426 people found the following review helpful
Format:Paperback
Super System 2 was hyped seemingly forever before it was finally released, with the release date pushed back several times. Was it worth the wait? Not really.
First of all, as another reviewer mentioned, parts of the book, especially the online poker section, read like an infomercial for Brunson's new site - just as blatant and irritating as on TV. He refers to it over and over (and over), with no purpose except as a shameless plug.
Another aspect that's hard to miss is the authors' ego-stroking of themselves and each other. Yes, Brunson's a great player, did a lot for the game, won the World Series twice 30 years ago, etc. Most readers already know that, and don't need to be endlessly reminded. Reading the introduction, one can almost imagine Doyle pausing to allow us time to bow down and worship him. The superlatives flow again before each chapter as he introduces each author, and then most of the others reciprocate by reminding us of Doyle's greatness. In case we'd forgotten.
Some have complained that the book includes other games and doesn't cover hold'em exclusively. I think this is one of the book's strong points. Hold'em has been beaten to death, with several great books on the game and new ones coming out regularly. It's very hard to find good information on some of the other games; for example, this is the first time I've seen Triple Draw covered in print. Also, the original Super System also covered several games, so this shouldn't surprise anyone.
As one might expect from a book where each chapter has a different author, the quality varies substantially from section to section. One thing they all have in common is fairly poor writing. The problem isn't as much glaring errors and misspellings (although there are some of these) as lots of extraneous wording and logical structure that could have easily been made clearer. I don't expect beautiful prose from a bunch of poker players, but hiring an editor and proofreader could have helped a lot.
The format, where each game is covered in 60 pages or so, has its pros and cons. It is able to cover a lot of topics, like Triple Draw, that might not merit a full book on its own. However, most of the games are much more complicated and so the chapters must necessarily leave out lots of information. I've been playing hold'em and stud for years, but don't have much experience in other games, so this format is perfect as a survey of other games.
To various degrees, the material is geared toward players with a decent amount of experience. There is a brief introduction to game mechanics (who posts the blinds, how the betting works) at the beginning of each chapter, but there are much better sources for the beginner.
The No-Limit Hold'em section, by Brunson himself, was one of the main reasons for the first book's popularity, and the most anticipated for this one. With a few minor exceptions it's just a reprint of the original, mostly word for word. Very disappointing, and misleading considering a lot of players will buy it for the NLH section alone.
The Stud/8 or better section by Todd Brunson (Doyle's son and a top pro himself) is excellent, covering lots of material in its
50 pages. This is particularly valuable since there isn't very much good material on the game elsewhere.
Jennifer Harman on Limit Hold'em is also excellent, but again, it would need to be hundreds of pages longer to be truly complete. As it stands, it's a good supplement for thought after reading other books on the game.
Pot Limit Omaha coverage by Lyle Berman is not great. Omaha/8 or better by Bobby Baldwin is good, but not spectacular. I really liked Daniel Negreanu's Triple Draw section, but that's probably because the game is totally new to me and any information is great.
The list of "contributors" for the book overall is very impressive, but also seems deceptive. Johnny Chan is listed... for writing the preface, which is another Ode to Doyle. No poker content. Negreanu is well known because of all his Hold'em success recently, and he covers Triple Draw, which is rarely played except at the highest limits. Most readers probably didn't even know he played Triple Draw, if they've heard of the game at all.
As primarily a stud player, I was very surprised and disappointed that it wasn't included at all. With the possible exception of hold'em (which was invented as a variation on stud), 7-card stud is the most consistently popular, most skillful poker variant. It was well covered by Chip Reese in the original Super System - they must have decided that the game hasn't changed much (which is mostly true).
Another oddity: the book is almost 700 pages, making it quite thick and heavy, but the first section covering a game doesn't start until over 200 pages in, with more filler at the end - a glossary (defining terms like "sucker"... someone who buys this book?), and a few more pages of ads at the end.
Overall, Super System 2 has a place in any serious player's library, but only as a supplement to more in-depth coverage of the various games. The original achieved the popularity it did because it was the only decent book on the market at the time, in the early '70s. Today, there's a lot of good poker books, and this one wouldn't be particularly notable without the names on the cover. Fortunately, it's relatively cheap, and a good value for the amount of material it covers.
First of all, as another reviewer mentioned, parts of the book, especially the online poker section, read like an infomercial for Brunson's new site - just as blatant and irritating as on TV. He refers to it over and over (and over), with no purpose except as a shameless plug.
Another aspect that's hard to miss is the authors' ego-stroking of themselves and each other. Yes, Brunson's a great player, did a lot for the game, won the World Series twice 30 years ago, etc. Most readers already know that, and don't need to be endlessly reminded. Reading the introduction, one can almost imagine Doyle pausing to allow us time to bow down and worship him. The superlatives flow again before each chapter as he introduces each author, and then most of the others reciprocate by reminding us of Doyle's greatness. In case we'd forgotten.
Some have complained that the book includes other games and doesn't cover hold'em exclusively. I think this is one of the book's strong points. Hold'em has been beaten to death, with several great books on the game and new ones coming out regularly. It's very hard to find good information on some of the other games; for example, this is the first time I've seen Triple Draw covered in print. Also, the original Super System also covered several games, so this shouldn't surprise anyone.
As one might expect from a book where each chapter has a different author, the quality varies substantially from section to section. One thing they all have in common is fairly poor writing. The problem isn't as much glaring errors and misspellings (although there are some of these) as lots of extraneous wording and logical structure that could have easily been made clearer. I don't expect beautiful prose from a bunch of poker players, but hiring an editor and proofreader could have helped a lot.
The format, where each game is covered in 60 pages or so, has its pros and cons. It is able to cover a lot of topics, like Triple Draw, that might not merit a full book on its own. However, most of the games are much more complicated and so the chapters must necessarily leave out lots of information. I've been playing hold'em and stud for years, but don't have much experience in other games, so this format is perfect as a survey of other games.
To various degrees, the material is geared toward players with a decent amount of experience. There is a brief introduction to game mechanics (who posts the blinds, how the betting works) at the beginning of each chapter, but there are much better sources for the beginner.
The No-Limit Hold'em section, by Brunson himself, was one of the main reasons for the first book's popularity, and the most anticipated for this one. With a few minor exceptions it's just a reprint of the original, mostly word for word. Very disappointing, and misleading considering a lot of players will buy it for the NLH section alone.
The Stud/8 or better section by Todd Brunson (Doyle's son and a top pro himself) is excellent, covering lots of material in its
50 pages. This is particularly valuable since there isn't very much good material on the game elsewhere.
Jennifer Harman on Limit Hold'em is also excellent, but again, it would need to be hundreds of pages longer to be truly complete. As it stands, it's a good supplement for thought after reading other books on the game.
Pot Limit Omaha coverage by Lyle Berman is not great. Omaha/8 or better by Bobby Baldwin is good, but not spectacular. I really liked Daniel Negreanu's Triple Draw section, but that's probably because the game is totally new to me and any information is great.
The list of "contributors" for the book overall is very impressive, but also seems deceptive. Johnny Chan is listed... for writing the preface, which is another Ode to Doyle. No poker content. Negreanu is well known because of all his Hold'em success recently, and he covers Triple Draw, which is rarely played except at the highest limits. Most readers probably didn't even know he played Triple Draw, if they've heard of the game at all.
As primarily a stud player, I was very surprised and disappointed that it wasn't included at all. With the possible exception of hold'em (which was invented as a variation on stud), 7-card stud is the most consistently popular, most skillful poker variant. It was well covered by Chip Reese in the original Super System - they must have decided that the game hasn't changed much (which is mostly true).
Another oddity: the book is almost 700 pages, making it quite thick and heavy, but the first section covering a game doesn't start until over 200 pages in, with more filler at the end - a glossary (defining terms like "sucker"... someone who buys this book?), and a few more pages of ads at the end.
Overall, Super System 2 has a place in any serious player's library, but only as a supplement to more in-depth coverage of the various games. The original achieved the popularity it did because it was the only decent book on the market at the time, in the early '70s. Today, there's a lot of good poker books, and this one wouldn't be particularly notable without the names on the cover. Fortunately, it's relatively cheap, and a good value for the amount of material it covers.
30 of 30 people found the following review helpful
Format:Paperback
"The Most Anticipated Book in the History of Poker!" exclaims a blurb on the cover. Well, if so, I can tell you that a lot of people have been, or are going to be, VERY disappointed. Comparing the classic Super/System from 1978 with this book is, to paraphrase Mark Twain, like comparing lightning to the lightning bug.
This book is more of a tribute to Doyle Brunson than it is "A Course in Power Poker." Johnny Chan writes a fairly vacuous Preface in which he lauds Brunson, but doesn't say anything about how to play. Then we have Brunson's Introduction in which he tells us mostly about the contributors to the first Super/System. Next there is an autobiographical sketch by Brunson entitled, "My Story." (If you want a book that gives the real flavor of Brunson's "story," get a copy of According to Doyle (1984). It contains 47 chapters in which Brunson recalls his early days and life on the road.)
Following "My Story" is a short history of Texas Hold'em by Crandell Addington which isn't much, and then there is the first chapter that could actually be considered part of a course in power poker. This would be 43 tips from Mike Caro cribbed from his lectures and books. However the tips are hardly "exclusive" for SuperSystem2 as claimed. Beginning with Caro's cute but now very familiar, "In the beginning, everything was even money," most or all of the tips have been recycled. For example, Tip #18, page 146, "WHEN A FREQUENT BETTOR CHECKS TO YOU...don't bluff" is just about the same as Tip #10 "Seldom bluff if frequent bluffers have checked into you" found on page 137 in Caro's Fundamental Secrets of Winning Poker (1996). In fact Caro even recycles his "exclusive" tips in this very book. Tip #31 says that PLAYERS STARING AWAY...are almost always more dangerous than players staring at you," while Tip #40 says in part that "OPPONENTS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BET OR RAISE IF THEY ARE: ...(3) staring away."
Jennifer Harman's chapter on limit hold'em is so ordinary that it's remedial. There's not even a hint of anything new. There are a number of books on the market that cover the same ground much more thoroughly. I especially recommend Small Stakes Hold'em: Winning Big with Expert Play (2004) by Ed Miller, David Sklansky and Mason Malmuth or anything by Sklansky. Also her insistence on referring to hands backwards, "6-7" (e.g., on p. 252) instead of "76" is annoying and contrary to a well-established convention.
And the caricatures by Russ Braun! They are so bland and flattering that each may have passed prior inspection by the subject's mother. Comparing these to the witty and sharp work by Stan Hunt in the original is like comparing a cliche to something alive and vital. Brunson doesn't even look like himself. Here he's just a generic, smiling, dough boy kind of guy--except in the small, clever, lifelike drawing gracing page 7 which WAS drawn by Stan Hunt, copied from the first book.
Good are the chapters on Omaha and Stud Eight-or-Better. However, although Brunson has Bobby Baldwin billed as his author of the Omaha Eight-or-Better chapter, actually it was written (as acknowledged) by Mark Gregorich. He does a good job of introducing the game and giving some of the strategies, and I'm sure he is a fine player, but what about Bobby Baldwin? Well, as CEO of Mirage Corporation and President of the Bellagio Hotel and Casino, Bobby is far, far too busy to write the chapter himself. So he just lent his name and his supervision. Can you spell R-I-P-O-F-F?
Perhaps the most embarrassing part of the book is Doyle's chapter on no limit hold'em. It is little more than a reprise of the same chapter in the first book published 28 years ago.
Also recycled is the section on "Colorful Names of Various Hold'em Hands" on pages 628 and 629. The dated references to Raquel Welch ("38") and Broderick Crawford ("10-4") seem more than a little out of touch. Indeed, this book is nostalgic tribute to Brunson and the great success he and the original book achieved. And that is a shame, because this book is billed as an exciting event in the history of the publication of books on poker when in fact it is something hastily put together to flatter Brunson and, hopefully, the pocketbook of those involved.
One final thing: there is a Glossary, suitable for beginners, which is okay as it defines such things a "Deuce," "Flush," "Four of a Kind," etc., but seems a little basic for "A Course in Power Poker." Worse though is this definition of a "Cold Deck": "A term often used to describe the deck by players who feel they're not getting enough playable or winning hands." Players may indeed remark that "the deck is cold," but the origin of the term comes from the fact that a stacked deck used by cheaters that is switched into the game tends to be "cold" to the touch since it has not been handled since it was stacked.
Bottom line: pass.
This book is more of a tribute to Doyle Brunson than it is "A Course in Power Poker." Johnny Chan writes a fairly vacuous Preface in which he lauds Brunson, but doesn't say anything about how to play. Then we have Brunson's Introduction in which he tells us mostly about the contributors to the first Super/System. Next there is an autobiographical sketch by Brunson entitled, "My Story." (If you want a book that gives the real flavor of Brunson's "story," get a copy of According to Doyle (1984). It contains 47 chapters in which Brunson recalls his early days and life on the road.)
Following "My Story" is a short history of Texas Hold'em by Crandell Addington which isn't much, and then there is the first chapter that could actually be considered part of a course in power poker. This would be 43 tips from Mike Caro cribbed from his lectures and books. However the tips are hardly "exclusive" for SuperSystem2 as claimed. Beginning with Caro's cute but now very familiar, "In the beginning, everything was even money," most or all of the tips have been recycled. For example, Tip #18, page 146, "WHEN A FREQUENT BETTOR CHECKS TO YOU...don't bluff" is just about the same as Tip #10 "Seldom bluff if frequent bluffers have checked into you" found on page 137 in Caro's Fundamental Secrets of Winning Poker (1996). In fact Caro even recycles his "exclusive" tips in this very book. Tip #31 says that PLAYERS STARING AWAY...are almost always more dangerous than players staring at you," while Tip #40 says in part that "OPPONENTS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BET OR RAISE IF THEY ARE: ...(3) staring away."
Jennifer Harman's chapter on limit hold'em is so ordinary that it's remedial. There's not even a hint of anything new. There are a number of books on the market that cover the same ground much more thoroughly. I especially recommend Small Stakes Hold'em: Winning Big with Expert Play (2004) by Ed Miller, David Sklansky and Mason Malmuth or anything by Sklansky. Also her insistence on referring to hands backwards, "6-7" (e.g., on p. 252) instead of "76" is annoying and contrary to a well-established convention.
And the caricatures by Russ Braun! They are so bland and flattering that each may have passed prior inspection by the subject's mother. Comparing these to the witty and sharp work by Stan Hunt in the original is like comparing a cliche to something alive and vital. Brunson doesn't even look like himself. Here he's just a generic, smiling, dough boy kind of guy--except in the small, clever, lifelike drawing gracing page 7 which WAS drawn by Stan Hunt, copied from the first book.
Good are the chapters on Omaha and Stud Eight-or-Better. However, although Brunson has Bobby Baldwin billed as his author of the Omaha Eight-or-Better chapter, actually it was written (as acknowledged) by Mark Gregorich. He does a good job of introducing the game and giving some of the strategies, and I'm sure he is a fine player, but what about Bobby Baldwin? Well, as CEO of Mirage Corporation and President of the Bellagio Hotel and Casino, Bobby is far, far too busy to write the chapter himself. So he just lent his name and his supervision. Can you spell R-I-P-O-F-F?
Perhaps the most embarrassing part of the book is Doyle's chapter on no limit hold'em. It is little more than a reprise of the same chapter in the first book published 28 years ago.
Also recycled is the section on "Colorful Names of Various Hold'em Hands" on pages 628 and 629. The dated references to Raquel Welch ("38") and Broderick Crawford ("10-4") seem more than a little out of touch. Indeed, this book is nostalgic tribute to Brunson and the great success he and the original book achieved. And that is a shame, because this book is billed as an exciting event in the history of the publication of books on poker when in fact it is something hastily put together to flatter Brunson and, hopefully, the pocketbook of those involved.
One final thing: there is a Glossary, suitable for beginners, which is okay as it defines such things a "Deuce," "Flush," "Four of a Kind," etc., but seems a little basic for "A Course in Power Poker." Worse though is this definition of a "Cold Deck": "A term often used to describe the deck by players who feel they're not getting enough playable or winning hands." Players may indeed remark that "the deck is cold," but the origin of the term comes from the fact that a stacked deck used by cheaters that is switched into the game tends to be "cold" to the touch since it has not been handled since it was stacked.
Bottom line: pass.
49 of 53 people found the following review helpful
By London Slim
Format:Paperback
The original Super System is a classic, and can make big changes to your game, especially if you play a lot of no-limit hold'em (the biggest chapter in the book and the one written by Brunson himself). Super System 2, I have to say, is an interesting read but if you're after a good chapter on no-limit hold'em then just buy the first book - the chapters are almost identical! Considering that the chapter on NL HE is probably the reason most people buy this book, I think it's out of order that the book is billed as a sequel, when it's actually much more of a revision. Great writers, good advice, but if you want good NL HE tips, stick to the first book and save yourself some money. If you haven't read the first one then you might as well buy the second one instead, as the other games covered are much more relevant and the tips are better.
Most Recent Customer Reviews
5.0 out of 5 stars
Superbly written
I am now armed at the poker table in what would have been years of self-study. Doyle's thoughtful, reasoned and time-tested experience has given me new eyes to see what didn't... Read more
Published 9 days ago by Barr
4.0 out of 5 stars
Great book.
Very detailed book. Theres enough information to confuse a starting player and a veteran at the same time. Thick book with alot of info. Read more
Published 1 month ago by Stephen L Lawson Jr
3.0 out of 5 stars
A critique only of Lyle Berman's section on PLO High
I learned from it and consider it worthwhile for a beginning PLO player, in spite of its three glaring omissions:
1) He uses the word "wrap" throughout the chapter... Read more
1) He uses the word "wrap" throughout the chapter... Read more
Published 2 months ago by John
3.0 out of 5 stars
Poker
Read the books and tried to practice some of the methods, still broke... not to say it don't work. maybe for Doyle. Read more
Published 2 months ago by w brewczynski
5.0 out of 5 stars
Better than the first . . .
This is one item where the sequel is truly better than the original. Oh, sorry, that was "The Godfather, Part 2" . . . oh, and "Aliens". Read more
Published 4 months ago by Double0buck
4.0 out of 5 stars
A Worthy successor
Well, many years after Super System, Doyle did it again, offering a book with his recognisable name on the title and top class contributors to it. Read more
Published 4 months ago by Ath K. Nikolopoulos
1.0 out of 5 stars
WASTE
Don't waste your time. THey shipped quick, but this book is a waste of time and money. Don't do it!
Published 5 months ago by K. A. Birtchman
5.0 out of 5 stars
The master!
this is the best book out there with the system of one of the best ever! If you play for money...you should read this book over and over again!
Published 6 months ago by QuestnMark
4.0 out of 5 stars
Super System 2
The recepient of this gift had read the previous book and was delighted to add this one to his collection. It was shipped promptly and arrived in great condition.
Published 14 months ago by Mother Hubbard
5.0 out of 5 stars
My wife liked it
I bought the book as a gift for my poker playing wife. She had been playing long enough to understand the messages from the various contributors. Read more
Published on February 1, 2011 by FreeJeffMacD
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