Customer Reviews

Doyle Brunson's Super System 2: A Course in Power Poker

5 star:		(36)
4 star:		(22)
3 star:		(10)
2 star:		(7)
1 star:		(1)

 

 

Super System 2 was hyped seemingly forever before it was finally released, with the release date pushed back several times. Was it worth the wait? Not really.

First of all, as another reviewer mentioned, parts of the book, especially the online poker section, read like an infomercial for Brunson's new site - just as blatant and irritating as on TV. He refers to it over and over (and over), with no purpose except as a shameless plug.

Another aspect that's hard to miss is the authors' ego-stroking of themselves and each other. Yes, Brunson's a great player, did a lot for the game, won the World Series twice 30 years ago, etc. Most readers already know that, and don't need to be endlessly reminded. Reading the introduction, one can almost imagine Doyle pausing to allow us time to bow down and worship him. The superlatives flow again before each chapter as he introduces each author, and then most of the others reciprocate by reminding us of Doyle's greatness. In case we'd forgotten.

Some have complained that the book includes other games and doesn't cover hold'em exclusively. I think this is one of the book's strong points. Hold'em has been beaten to death, with several great books on the game and new ones coming out regularly. It's very hard to find good information on some of the other games; for example, this is the first time I've seen Triple Draw covered in print. Also, the original Super System also covered several games, so this shouldn't surprise anyone.

As one might expect from a book where each chapter has a different author, the quality varies substantially from section to section. One thing they all have in common is fairly poor writing. The problem isn't as much glaring errors and misspellings (although there are some of these) as lots of extraneous wording and logical structure that could have easily been made clearer. I don't expect beautiful prose from a bunch of poker players, but hiring an editor and proofreader could have helped a lot.

The format, where each game is covered in 60 pages or so, has its pros and cons. It is able to cover a lot of topics, like Triple Draw, that might not merit a full book on its own. However, most of the games are much more complicated and so the chapters must necessarily leave out lots of information. I've been playing hold'em and stud for years, but don't have much experience in other games, so this format is perfect as a survey of other games.

To various degrees, the material is geared toward players with a decent amount of experience. There is a brief introduction to game mechanics (who posts the blinds, how the betting works) at the beginning of each chapter, but there are much better sources for the beginner.

The No-Limit Hold'em section, by Brunson himself, was one of the main reasons for the first book's popularity, and the most anticipated for this one. With a few minor exceptions it's just a reprint of the original, mostly word for word. Very disappointing, and misleading considering a lot of players will buy it for the NLH section alone.

The Stud/8 or better section by Todd Brunson (Doyle's son and a top pro himself) is excellent, covering lots of material in its
50 pages. This is particularly valuable since there isn't very much good material on the game elsewhere.

Jennifer Harman on Limit Hold'em is also excellent, but again, it would need to be hundreds of pages longer to be truly complete. As it stands, it's a good supplement for thought after reading other books on the game.

Pot Limit Omaha coverage by Lyle Berman is not great. Omaha/8 or better by Bobby Baldwin is good, but not spectacular. I really liked Daniel Negreanu's Triple Draw section, but that's probably because the game is totally new to me and any information is great.

The list of "contributors" for the book overall is very impressive, but also seems deceptive. Johnny Chan is listed... for writing the preface, which is another Ode to Doyle. No poker content. Negreanu is well known because of all his Hold'em success recently, and he covers Triple Draw, which is rarely played except at the highest limits. Most readers probably didn't even know he played Triple Draw, if they've heard of the game at all.

As primarily a stud player, I was very surprised and disappointed that it wasn't included at all. With the possible exception of hold'em (which was invented as a variation on stud), 7-card stud is the most consistently popular, most skillful poker variant. It was well covered by Chip Reese in the original Super System - they must have decided that the game hasn't changed much (which is mostly true).

Another oddity: the book is almost 700 pages, making it quite thick and heavy, but the first section covering a game doesn't start until over 200 pages in, with more filler at the end - a glossary (defining terms like "sucker"... someone who buys this book?), and a few more pages of ads at the end.

Overall, Super System 2 has a place in any serious player's library, but only as a supplement to more in-depth coverage of the various games. The original achieved the popularity it did because it was the only decent book on the market at the time, in the early '70s. Today, there's a lot of good poker books, and this one wouldn't be particularly notable without the names on the cover. Fortunately, it's relatively cheap, and a good value for the amount of material it covers.

"The Most Anticipated Book in the History of Poker!" exclaims a blurb on the cover. Well, if so, I can tell you that a lot of people have been, or are going to be, VERY disappointed. Comparing the classic Super/System from 1978 with this book is, to paraphrase Mark Twain, like comparing lightning to the lightning bug.

This book is more of a tribute to Doyle Brunson than it is "A Course in Power Poker." Johnny Chan writes a fairly vacuous Preface in which he lauds Brunson, but doesn't say anything about how to play. Then we have Brunson's Introduction in which he tells us mostly about the contributors to the first Super/System. Next there is an autobiographical sketch by Brunson entitled, "My Story." (If you want a book that gives the real flavor of Brunson's "story," get a copy of According to Doyle (1984). It contains 47 chapters in which Brunson recalls his early days and life on the road.)

Following "My Story" is a short history of Texas Hold'em by Crandell Addington which isn't much, and then there is the first chapter that could actually be considered part of a course in power poker. This would be 43 tips from Mike Caro cribbed from his lectures and books. However the tips are hardly "exclusive" for SuperSystem2 as claimed. Beginning with Caro's cute but now very familiar, "In the beginning, everything was even money," most or all of the tips have been recycled. For example, Tip #18, page 146, "WHEN A FREQUENT BETTOR CHECKS TO YOU...don't bluff" is just about the same as Tip #10 "Seldom bluff if frequent bluffers have checked into you" found on page 137 in Caro's Fundamental Secrets of Winning Poker (1996). In fact Caro even recycles his "exclusive" tips in this very book. Tip #31 says that PLAYERS STARING AWAY...are almost always more dangerous than players staring at you," while Tip #40 says in part that "OPPONENTS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BET OR RAISE IF THEY ARE: ...(3) staring away."

Jennifer Harman's chapter on limit hold'em is so ordinary that it's remedial. There's not even a hint of anything new. There are a number of books on the market that cover the same ground much more thoroughly. I especially recommend Small Stakes Hold'em: Winning Big with Expert Play (2004) by Ed Miller, David Sklansky and Mason Malmuth or anything by Sklansky. Also her insistence on referring to hands backwards, "6-7" (e.g., on p. 252) instead of "76" is annoying and contrary to a well-established convention.

And the caricatures by Russ Braun! They are so bland and flattering that each may have passed prior inspection by the subject's mother. Comparing these to the witty and sharp work by Stan Hunt in the original is like comparing a cliche to something alive and vital. Brunson doesn't even look like himself. Here he's just a generic, smiling, dough boy kind of guy--except in the small, clever, lifelike drawing gracing page 7 which WAS drawn by Stan Hunt, copied from the first book.

Good are the chapters on Omaha and Stud Eight-or-Better. However, although Brunson has Bobby Baldwin billed as his author of the Omaha Eight-or-Better chapter, actually it was written (as acknowledged) by Mark Gregorich. He does a good job of introducing the game and giving some of the strategies, and I'm sure he is a fine player, but what about Bobby Baldwin? Well, as CEO of Mirage Corporation and President of the Bellagio Hotel and Casino, Bobby is far, far too busy to write the chapter himself. So he just lent his name and his supervision. Can you spell R-I-P-O-F-F?

Perhaps the most embarrassing part of the book is Doyle's chapter on no limit hold'em. It is little more than a reprise of the same chapter in the first book published 28 years ago.

Also recycled is the section on "Colorful Names of Various Hold'em Hands" on pages 628 and 629. The dated references to Raquel Welch ("38") and Broderick Crawford ("10-4") seem more than a little out of touch. Indeed, this book is nostalgic tribute to Brunson and the great success he and the original book achieved. And that is a shame, because this book is billed as an exciting event in the history of the publication of books on poker when in fact it is something hastily put together to flatter Brunson and, hopefully, the pocketbook of those involved.

One final thing: there is a Glossary, suitable for beginners, which is okay as it defines such things a "Deuce," "Flush," "Four of a Kind," etc., but seems a little basic for "A Course in Power Poker." Worse though is this definition of a "Cold Deck": "A term often used to describe the deck by players who feel they're not getting enough playable or winning hands." Players may indeed remark that "the deck is cold," but the origin of the term comes from the fact that a stacked deck used by cheaters that is switched into the game tends to be "cold" to the touch since it has not been handled since it was stacked.

Bottom line: pass.

I think it's a book that belongs on any serious poker player's bookshelf, but it shouldn't be one of your first books.

Let's start with what your expectations should be of the book, because the title is misleading. This isn't a coherent, unified system of approaching poker. Instead, it's a collection of essays from an all-star cast of contributing authors on a wide range of poker games. I think that's a fine thing, and I appreciate the different approaches and insights, but the title could lead you to expect something very different.

I think it's fair to say that I took away a profitable nugget from most every chapter. I play predominantly limit hold 'em, and Jennifer Harman's chapter on the game is fantastic. While most books I've read spend the bulk of their time on pre-flop hand selection (understandable), Harman does a great job of discussing how to approach common flop & turn scenarios. I ended up recouping the cost of the book the day I purchased it by following some of her advice on how I approach catching middle or low pair on the flop.

Downsides to the book:
Personally, I could live without the long waxing on Doyle's life history. Don't get me wrong, I'd happily buy a well written biography of Doyle's life, but I bought this for poker theory and strategy. (And Doyle shouldn't be the one to write the biography... he may be a brilliant poker player, but his writing is so so.)

Another reviewer mentioned this, but it deserves repeating: the plugs for Doyle's online poker site are annoying at best.

In the end I think this is a great follow-up book to any of the great fundamental books on the game.
fyi, by fundamental books on the game I mean...
For general poker theory: Sklansky and Malmuth
For hold 'em limit discussion: Lou Kreiger or Ed Miller
For no limit: Dan Harrington

The original Super System is a classic, and can make big changes to your game, especially if you play a lot of no-limit hold'em (the biggest chapter in the book and the one written by Brunson himself). Super System 2, I have to say, is an interesting read but if you're after a good chapter on no-limit hold'em then just buy the first book - the chapters are almost identical! Considering that the chapter on NL HE is probably the reason most people buy this book, I think it's out of order that the book is billed as a sequel, when it's actually much more of a revision. Great writers, good advice, but if you want good NL HE tips, stick to the first book and save yourself some money. If you haven't read the first one then you might as well buy the second one instead, as the other games covered are much more relevant and the tips are better.

There is much debate on whether this book is simply an update to the old classic or a bona fide second volume and whether one should buy both (as the author recommends) or just the new one. For the majority of people (whose primary interests lie in various forms of Hold 'em and Omaha) you really only need to buy Super System 2. The chapter on no-limit is essentially the same and the section on limit in the original book is outdated because of the changes in blind/ante structure that have occurred over the years. The new book has chapters on pot-limit Omaha, Omaha high/low (Omaha8), Eight or Better (7 stud high/low), Triple Draw (2 to 7 and A to 5 lowball), tournament strategy, and Mike Caro's section on tells. If you get the new book and don't get the original, you're mostly missing out on a bunch of games that casinos rarely, if ever, spread (although you might see them in some home games). You'd miss things like 5-card draw (lowball and jacks or better), Razz (7 stud for low), etc. Probably the only meaningful (by that, I simply mean mainstream) chapter you'd be missing would be Chip Reese's section on Seven Card Stud. I personally don't think it's profound enough to warrant buying the original book just for that chapter, but great 7 stud books are hard to come by (compared to hold 'em).

Yes, the book has its share of "filler" (preface, forward, intro, history, and plugs for his poker site) as you might expect from a book of this size, but you basically get all that "filler" at no charge, because the book is still reasonably priced for what you get. Even if you were only interested in Hold 'Em and Omaha, you'd be hard-pressed to take the same money and get decent books on limit Hold 'em, no-limit Hold 'em, pot limit Omaha, and Omaha8. You could probably find a single book on one or two of those four and have some money left over, but that's about it. If you're really interested in all of the chapters in Super System 2, then you could probably rate this book a 5. If you're going to ignore or gloss over half of it, then a 4+ is about right.

Super system came on the sceen in 1978 under the original title: "How I made over $1,000,000 Playing Poker and has been known as the Poker Bible ever since. There is good reason for this, while other poker books taught the rules of poker, and general starting requirements, Super System introduced many to the art of outplaying, odds, and flat out stealing and back alley mugging anyone who had the nerve to sit down at "your" table. Nothing like Super System was even close prior to its publishing and there have been very few poker books since that have been so influential to poker players.

Super System 2 was released in mid-2005. While much of the information is the same, Super System 2 updates with some of today's popular games. Some key updates are the Online Poker section, tournament sections, and Omaha sections. The biggest disappointment to me was that the No Limit Holdem section is virtually identical to the 1978 version. I would have like to see this updated. Some people have complained that the Online Poker section is just one big advertisement for Doylesroom.com. I look at it this way, they had to use a site for illustrations so why not? I enjoyed this section as it will help online poker in the long run. Plus there are some very solid advice that apply to online gaming!

Super System and Super System 2 are broken up into game sections. Doyle hand selected the authors of each section. My favorite section in both 1 and 2 are the Limit Holdem sections. Bobby Baldwin wrote the Limit Holdem section in 1978 and it was THE most important peice of poker literature I have ever read. Jennifer Harman wrote the Super System 2 Limit Holdem section and it is clearly the best section in the new version in my opinion.

Super System is not a beginner's book and the lessons taught should not be used against bad players because they simply do not apply. These are semi-advanced concepts and require a good knowledge of the games and should be used with caution.

The Original Super System contains game sections by the following:
Draw Poker - Mike Caro
7 stud - Chip Reese
Lowball (A-5, 2-7, Razz) - Joey Hawthorne
High-Low Split - David Sklansky
Limit Holdem - Bobby Baldwin
No Limit Holdem - Doyle Brunson

Super System 2 contains the game sections by the following:
Online Poker - Doyle Brunson
Limit Holdem - Jennifer Harman
Omaha 8 or better - Bobby Baldwin
7 stud High Low 8 or better - Todd Brunson
Pot Limit Omaha - Lyle Berman
Triple Draw - Daniel Negreanu
No Limit Holdem - Doyle Brunson
Tournament Overview - Doyle Brunson

Finally, both Super System 1 and 2 are fanatasic books and should be in your poker library. If you only had the choice of buying the original or Super System 2 then I would suggest Super System 2 as it addresses today's more popular games, besides how many times do you plan to play 5 card draw online?

If you are an experienced player looking to fine tune your game this book is a great resource. It was written as a companion guide to the original Super System and so this book covers different games than the original. Because many of the games in the original are mostly obsolete in the casinos the original book has less value than when written in the late 70's and so for most newer players they need only buy this book rather than both. You will miss 7 stud and 7 stud low(Razz)and the three draw games but you won't be missing much if you only buy this book. For example, Ace to 5 draw lowball is mostly history as is Jacks or better draw and 2-7 no limit draw is mainly a tournament game now, and 7-stud high-low without an 8 qualifier is obsolete. So, as far as an updated version, it is pretty good, covering Omaha 8 or better, 7-stud 8 or better, pot-limit Omaha, and limit 2-7 triple draw as well as limit and no limit holdem and the minor sections covering online and tournament play.

One of the drawbacks in many player's views is the lack of an updated No Limit section, and while I mostly agree, I think after going through both books that the mix of games chosen for this book are thought to be more current and Brunson may truly feel that the original no limit material is in whole solid enough to reinsert into a mainly replacement version of the original Super System. Keep in mind also that he has stated over the years that he probably cost himself millions of dollars after writing Super System and had to make many "adjustments" to keep winning. If that is true why would he give away all of his "adjustment" material only to have to go back and re-invent his game once again at 70+ years old?


The real value is for the more experienced players looking to fine tune their game in one of the covered disciplines rather than as a complete how-to-play each game. The book is geared for the professional or aspiring professional who already thinks beyond the basics. The average player looking for in depth tutorials in each game will probably be a little over his head until he gets a lot of play under his belt and maybe not even then. It is written by professionals and their approach to the game is several levels beyond the average players experience and understanding. There is much to be learned here but you need a certain level of knowledge and game experience to take full advantage not only of the games covered, but also to appreciate the subtle but important ideas they give you for playing at the upper levels. Likewise you need to ignore the 20% or so of "filler" and not allow it to distract you from the real value of the book. The book probably won't help a losing or average player to win because they are just not yet at the point that they can fully understand all of the discussion and since there is not much basic or foundation material covered it will be more difficult to grasp. I think it will be of more help to the already winning and advanced players looking to fine tune an already solid grasp of each game.

Super System 2 is a very good poker book, of course everyone knows about the legendary original--at first and "underground" publication that was very hard to get. I got hooked on poker about 2 years ago (I don't play live that much due to my budget) but it is a fascinating, addictive game, and my best thing about playing for real, is you aren't playing the casino, you're playing the other players, therefore your chances overall of making some money are much better (well depending on the other players, of course)

Anyway I agree with many, in that I was sort of disappointed that the book was not more in depth on hold em; I don't play the other games, and I don't play limit. I am interested in low stakes, no limit, hold em. Mike Caro's chapter probably meant the most to me as its advise is good across the board. I would recommend this book to someone who is intermediate and interested in learning a bit about the other games, but it s NOT for a beginner and quite frankly I don't see it as that good of a "strategy" book, because most players in the casinos are not playing for the stakes that the authors are. Which leads me to my advice--remember these VERY IMPORTANT points:

1. This (these) books are NOT FOR BEGINNERS. It (they) assume you know something about the game(s) and are looking for an (edge)

2. You can't learn poker from a book. The most important thing to remember about playing live is, every player, therefore table, will be different. In most casinos you will be playing strangers and will have no idea how good (or bad) they are. All those pages about what hands not even to call to the flop won't mean anything if you are at a table full of weak timid players. And as we know a hand that wouldn't be so good with 8 players and small blinds, becomes more urgent and favorable to play, say late in a sit and go you hsve been tight and are short stack, when there's 3 players left, the blinds take 10% of your stack and you've seen 2 of the 3 players left are weak. Or, if you have chip lead and can afford to cover everyone's crazy calls, you would follow that path. That's just basics you can learn at a home game, you shouldn't need a 50 dollar book.

3. Proably most important; a lot of folks seem to be missing this: The no limit hold em chapters in these books are NOT talking about no limit hold em. THEY COVER HIGH STAKES NO LIMIT HOLD EM. When you see these programs on TV like World Poker Tour, Poker After Dark, etc; these events (usually) have buy ins of $10-$30,000! Most people (I know myself) for sure) will never be playing for those stakes. So I can tell you, if you take your $100 buy in and go to the Bicycle Club, and try to play like Doyle plays high stakes, you won't be sitting at that table long. But if you take the general advice, adapt to the other players, and play carefully, you can win a few dollars (even I've done it).

I'm a NL player, so for me this book is basically worthless because I already own the original Super System and Super System II doesn't update the NL section for some reason. The NL section of Super System II is 99.9% word-for-word an exact copy of the original Super System.

I already know most of Caro's tells, and I play mainly online, so they aren't as useful to me anyway. Furthermore, Doyle's section about online poker is just full of ridiculously basic things that you can find covered in much more depth elsewhere.

If you don't own the original Super System and are interested just in general in poker and would like to learn about all different forms of poker from limit and NL Hold Em, to Razz and Stud, then this is a great book to get. HOWEVER, this is just a complete waste for a NL player who already owns/read the original Super System.

No disrespect to Doyle the man, the myth, and the legend, but to Doyle the editor and author, you could have at least warned us that the NL section wouldn't be updated.

I was really looking forward to this book, but it was quite a let down. A great deal of the book is just filler and hype for Mike Caro's and Doyle Brunson's poker sites.

The strategy chapters do not start until page 210. The first section is Jennifer Harman's Limit Hold'em chapters. This chapter suffers the same problems that most of the strategy chapters do. It assumes the player is familar with the game, so it doesn't get into much detail, but it also never gets into much depth. All chapters are aimed at high-stakes player. (50/100 PLO with a $100,000 cap anyone?).

The Omaha 8/b chapter is passible, the PLO chapter is horrible as is Doyle's NL and tournament sections. He gives advice, such as playing Q6 because you can flop a double belly-buster draw to it, nevemind you will only flop the DRAW .3% of the time. He also did not update his chapter for the use of blinds instead of antes.

The stand-out chapters of the book are Todd Brunson's Stud 8/b section and Daniel Negraneanu's 2-7 triple draw. Both chapters go into a surprising amount of detail from starting hands to the final street or deal of play for the space they are given.