Customer Reviews

Etymotic ER-4P Portable In-Ear Earphones

5 star:		(125)
4 star:		(38)
3 star:		(12)
2 star:		(13)
1 star:		(11)

 

 

I'm on record with a total rave of Etymotic's ER-6 headphones - but the ER-4P is vastly more satisfying. The difference is bass (the most immediately obvious difference). The ER-4p has phenominal bass for headphones - probably state of the art in this reguard. But what makes the ER-4p really special is its amazing dynamics. The soundstage is huge, and sonic textures leap out of velvet silence. It's hard to characterize superb dynamics. Music sounds "bigger". Quiet passages have more presence - and louder passages have more inner detail. Another strength of the ER-4p is that the extra bass energy allows the vibrant treble detail to sound balanced - not strident or analytical (as the ER-6 can sometimes sound). Between the dynamics and the bass, the ER-4p ends up sounding more musical and alive than the ER-6 (and thus virtually every other earphone). There is a touch of mid-bass ripeness - sometimes deep voices like Mark Knopfler sound a little chesty. There's also a downside the huge dynamics - sometimes a touch of congestion can creep in during crescendo peaks. The flip side of this is that quiet passages can have enormous presence and emotional power. Small scale accoustic stuff and female vocalists shine and have amazing presence. Nora Jones, for example, has never sounded better. Big rock doesn't suffer either. The fantastic treble detail and huge deep bass makes both classical and rock really slam. These really are amazing phones.

There are the usual caveats of an in-ear-canal headphone: Ear-canal type headphones like these must be inserted ALL the way down into the ear canal to get good bass. The better the seal the better the bass. One of my ear canals isn't straight and I sometimes have trouble getting that ear's earphone properly positioned. Once I do - the bass on these phones is amazing. This issue causes problems for some. Some people just can't tolerate something in their ears. My wife uses foam earplugs all the time but she's too squeamish to insert these earphones properly. I know plenty of people with this issue. Be honest with yourself about this before you make the plunge. If ear canal type earphones are not inserted all the way to make a good seal they sound tinny and lightweight with no bass.

Then there's the usual caveat for any high-end audio transducer: it's only worth the money if you've made sure the signal you're feeding it can do it justice. If your source material is great you'll thrill to hear all of it. You'll hear things you never heard before, guaranteed. If your source isn't good - you'll hear that too. I suspect this is the source of many of the complaints. There are a lot of people listening to low grade portable players - or to audio files with too much compression. Check out any peer to peer sharing sites and you'll find lots of audio tracks that sound like they were ripped off a poorly tuned AM radio station. If this is your music collection you should probably stick to cheap earbuds that soften and roll off the music. Etymotics will sound glorious if you are using lossless compression or high-bit rate encoding off good source material.

I'm an audiophile. At home I tweak room accoustics, cable types, speaker placement and the like. My lifestyle dictates I end up doing much of my listening on commuter busses, airplanes, subways, and long walks across the city. The Etymotics and my iPod - filled with losslessly compressed tunes gives me an audiophile experience on the road. I frequently hear things on this rig that I don't hear even on my high-resolution home system. This kind of musical satisfaction at this price is astounding - a total bargain. Part of what makes it work so well for passenger transport use is the excellent isolation. These things are earplugs - plain and simple. They cut out ambient noise exactly like earplugs. Be aware that sonic isolation can be dangerous for pedestrians, bikes, drivers, and motorcyclists. You can't hear the car horn that might save your life. I walk NYC streets all the time with these on, but when I jaywalk I'm extra careful to look both ways.

I've used ER-6s for last 3 1/2 years or so and was deeply in love. I'm probably a good candidate for Sensas, Ultimate Ears, or other expensive exotic phones, but decided to upgrade to the ER-4ps on reputation when the ER-6s began to lose some sonic integrity after years of hard use and rough treatment. (I use the ER-6s at the gym now - where they sound great and stay put during vigorous exercise). At first the ER-4p's bass was over-ripe. They need some burn-in time. After 5 hours or so the bass came into line with the rest of the frequencies. It is still extremely strong - sometimes almost overpowering. I find this a rare and desireable trait for headphones. Most phones - even really great phones like Electrostatics or dynamic phones like Grados or Sennheisers have deficient bass. The bass and dynamic prowess of the ER-4p puts them in a different league than the ER-6 - which can sound a bit hard and analytical at times. The ER-4p sounds almost euphonic by comparison. I don't think it actually is euphonic. I've used them for about 75 hours so far and they reveal the source material. They just do so in a beautiful way. If you care about audio quality, can tolerate ear canal type phones, and can feed them high resolution source material, you'll probably fall as deeply in love with the ER-4p as I have.

A word about ergonomics. Some have criticized the ER-4P's microphonic cord and way they stick out of your ear - making them vulnerable to contact with hats and helmets. There is something to this criticism - especially in winter. The ER-4p sticks out of your ears, secured only by the friction fit of the earpiece itself. This can lead to annoying encounters with hats and scarves. It's not so easy to make these headphones happy inside earmuffs or ear covering hats. Etymotic was one of the first in-ear-canal headphones and the design lacks the ergonomic advances of Shure and others - principally the routing of the cord up and around the ear and a thicker, non-microphonic cord covering. I wish Etymotic would consider incorporating these advances. Etymotics have penetratingly transparent sound - transparency (ultimately, fidelity) that is impossible to match anywhere close to this price. I'll put up with the ergonomic issue (which are really only issues in winter - for me).

Follow-up - Last week I had an hour to kill at the airport and a nice salesman let me do a shootout with Shure E3cs, E4cs, E5cs, and Sennheiser CX-300s versus my beloved Etymotic ER-4Ps. I was able to eliminate the Shure E3c and Sennheiser CX-300 immediately - they sounded unacceptably muffled and congested by comparison. The Shure E4c and E5c were more interesting. The E5c had more powerful bass, but was ultimately less transparent than the Etymotic ER-4P. The E4c, however, really gave the Etymotics a run for their money. Shure's E4c had excellent midrange and treble transparency and strong powerful bass. I had to go back and forth between these and the ER-4Ps many times to get a firm fix. The major difference is EQ balance. The Ety ER-4Ps are flatter; the E4cs more tipped up at each extreme, as if you had turned both the treble and bass knobs up. The E4cs had a seductive sweetness in the treble and rich solidity to the bass that was very seductive. I was tempted to put my credit card down. The Etymotic ER-4Ps are less exciting - but ultimately felt a little truer to the music. I'd say both had about equivalent transparency and apparent fidelity. The E4cs are twice the price of ER-4Ps - underscoring Etymotics excellent value. The Shures had a nice wind-up case and, perhaps, better ergonomics, however. Food for thought.

Yet another follow up: a word about the fact that the new ER-4Ps are black and the old ones were blue and red. I imagine that Etymotic stopped making the blue/red cable boot models because people thought it looked funny. Now that they are all an attractive black some mourn the lost functionality of immediately being able to see which one is left and which right at a glance. There is an easy way to do this with the new black ones (I own the black ones BTW). Hold one out in front of you and look for the shiny circle. If you see the shiny circle, stuff it in the ear it's pointing towards. If not, shove it in the other ear. Perhaps my words are not clear, but try it once and you'll immediately see my logic. Once you learn this move you'll never have any issues about which is right or left - except in total darkness. If spotting the shiny circle isn't easy for you, add a drop of nail polish on the right one and you'll be able to grab the right one that way.

Update 1/13/12: I recently purchased and reviewed Ultimate Ears TripleFi 10s and compared them to the ER-4Ps. Here is part of that review:

"How do they stack up against the Etymotic ER-4P specifically? These two headphones are top contenders for best of the non-custom headphones - along with the more expensive Sure offerings. Bottom line they do very well. The UE 3Fi 10s have superior bass to the ER-4Ps and don't give up much in the mid range. They have superior dynamics and larger and more exciting sound stage in general. Treble is close between the two. The Triple Fis actually have slightly better extension in the treble, subjectively, but are a bit more hooded in the low treble. Sounds like a rout, but it isn't. The Etymotic ER-4Ps manage to remain competitive by virtue of their seamless coherence. The ER-4P is a single driver design as opposed to the TripleFi's 3 driver design. That means less air moving, less explosive dynamics, less bass extension and weight. But it also means no crossovers and no integrating the sounds of different drivers into a single sound stage. The Etymotic ER-4Ps thus have no seams. Soundstaging is amazing and the music across the sound stage is in scale and hangs together beautifully; giving the impression of perfect accuracy. The Triple Fis sound subjectively more exciting, pounding and dynamic - but subjectively seem to get some of that via the passive equalization effects of its multi-driver design. Another differentiator is that Etymotics also like to be seated deep. This gives them superior sound isolation. A good 10db or so better than the isolation you get with the Ultimate Ears TripleFi 10. However Etymotic recently raised the price of the ER-4Ps to $300. The value equation has thus been reversed."

The Etymotic ER-4Ps are very special. They still do the seamless coherence and total accuracy thing better than the multi-driver more punchy and dynamic competition from Ultimate Ears and Sure. However there is something quite satisfying about the bass heft and dynamic slam of those UE and Sure phones.

I owned the ER-6i headphones for about a year before I left them on an airline seat and made someone's day. I loved them and most of what I liked about them factored into my decision about what to replace them with. I shopped the Shure models and several others, but I really did like the performance of the ER-6i. So why did I go for the upgrade? While the ER-6i's were overall excellent (4 stars by me), at times they seemed incapable of providing a full bass response at reasonable volumes. They either were dull at low volumes or distorted at high volumes. Yes, there are times when I play my music too loud, that's why I choose headphones, so I do not annoy others with my often odd musical tastes. I do expect a good headphone to be capable of delivering good bass.

The ER-4p excels where the ER-6i fell a bit short. With either model it matters a lot how you seat the ear pieces. A poor seal (insufficient depth) results in very little bass. Correct insertion provides the best external sound isolation and the best bass reproduction. I find the white plastic flange type earpiece comfortable for long periods of wear, but your experience may differ if you have an anatomically smaller than average ear canal. There are foam inserts as an alternative and you can even purchase optional smaller foam ear pieces that I have not needed. Since they do fit so snug and deep in the ear you will soil them. I only hope whoever decided to keep my ER-6i's enjoyed that mine were well used. The ER-4p comes with two spare pairs of flange earpieces and 5 pairs of foam covers. You will use them.

The sound isolation is excellent. I share an office with two other mates without cubicles. The in-ear design has been a lifesaver. I find it easy to concentrate on projects that require my full attention or merely chug through a mindless task with some good tunes to comfort me without annoying my mates.

I have auditioned these headphones on my home audio system and would describe the performance as stunning. When I travel I like to use my Palm T5 and find the volume levels very acceptable and sound reproduction with the Palm T5 is outstanding as well. One problem I found was the plug has a rather large blocky (1 cm x 1 cm) base that fits poorly in this particular female jack. I have had to reseat it repeatedly to keep the tunes coming, but only with this particular device. It fits my ipod nano just fine and here too the sound reproduction is head and shoulders above other headphones I have tried. At work I use them with a typical computer workstation and plug into the headphone jack in the desktop speakers. I use Winamp as my player and find that the sound is very good although it is not what I get from my home system. Line buzz in a problem here, but that has nothing to do with the headphones it is from the source.

In short, a good player will yield the best results from these outstanding ear-inserted headphones. The sound isolation is excellent and is a nice way to better appreciate the nuances of your music and shut out the noise of the world. I found this especially true during airline travel. Finally, shop this product. I found them available from several retailers well below the MSRP and if the price is still too steep the ER-6i is an excellent option that I would have been happy to continue to use for years to come had I not lost them.

p.s. One other thing I like about the in-ear design is that they work well as earplugs during air travel. Even when I am not allowed to use "apporved portable electronic devices," they help take most of the edge off of that screaming child who usually sits near me.

I recently purchased a set of ER-4Ps and while the glowing reviews presented here are pretty much justified, I must take issue with a few points. In my experience, these earphones do not have the bass presence that so many reviews mention. I would definitely describe it as anemic. Even bass-heavy music such as drum 'n bass or jungle comes across incredibly weak. It's as if listening to music through a high-pass filter. As a composer/producer, I've listened to a lot of audio transducers and I trust my ears. I am not one of those guys who turns the "bass knob" all the way up and such. I believe in flat frequency reproduction to yield the most accurate representation of the composer's creation.

That said, these largely depend on the style of music you enjoy. I find listening to acoustic music very rewarding with these earphones. Bartok's "Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celeste" has never had such amazing clarity. Bartok's dense weave of strings each find a space in the mix and the dynamic range is quite good. Feldman's "Rothko Chapel" is also particularly nice with its haunting mixture of small, delicate sounds. However, if you're a fan of electronic music (or any music that has a strong bass component), these are going to disappoint. You're much better off with a pair of headphones (such as the Grado SR60s) than the ER-4Ps.

I know the idea of the 4Ps is to work well without a dedicated headphone amp (are they are much more efficient than the 4Ss), but I'm not satisfied using them with my iPod nano. While I've never thought the iPods had amazing sound quality, the 4P/nano combination is particularly bad. I'm sure part of it has to do with the use of MP3s instead of uncompressed WAV or AIFF files, but since most people load their iPods up with MP3s only, this is an important point. If your music is compressed, these earphones will only exacerbate the problems. A lot of people still claim they can't tell the difference between compressed and uncompressed audio, but with these earphones, you surely will. The sound is just a little too analytical to make a bad recording (or a compressed recording) sound good. Where other headphones, such as the Grados, provide a very smooth, rich sound that glosses over imperfections, the 4Ps simply reproduce the audio with painful accuracy. Again, this is invaluable for a lot of occasions, but if you're planning to use MP3, ACC, or whatever, these will not sound as good.

Finally, nobody has sufficiently stated the annoyance of the cable sound. Of course, when you stick something this far in your ear, any motion in any part of the cable is amplified substantially. It really is a big problem. You simply can't move when you're using these. Sure, you get a shirt clip with the set, but that doesn't come close to eliminating it. It's very distracting and sometimes painful. If you're going to use these, plan on sitting still.

I don't mean for this to be a negative review. Not at all. These are some of the finest audio transducers that I've ever heard. The midrange is flawless. I just wanted to bring up a few points that I would have liked to know before I bought them myself. The ER-4Ps are not perfect, but they're worth the money.

I was trying to streamline my travel laptop bag and do away with my Bose Noise Canceling Headphones. An associate told me about the ER-4P's so I had to try them. The earpieces act kind of like ear plugs and block a lot of external noise. They fit comfortably in my ear and the sound quality was amazingly good (up to the limits of the SNR of your mp3 player or whatever). The earpieces do have an annoying issue though, the cable that runs from the earpieces to the music player are very suseptable to touch. If you are listening to a song and you tap on the cord, you hear a loud thump in the earpieces. I researched this and several other users all noticed the same thing. How and why tapping on a wire causes noise in the earpieces is beyond me??? I tried the headsets in a Creative Zen and an Apple Ipod 3G, both sounded a heck of a lot better than they did with the Bose Noise Canceling Headphones. I'm looking forward to testing the Ipod 5G with these earpieces.

UPDATE: After a month of heavy use, I really like these earpieces. I suppose some people may have an issue with the "earplug" style earpiece but it doesn't bother me. What I like so much about the ER-4P's is that they isolate you from the outside world by their earplug design and allow you to hear the music at a much higher "resolution". I don't know if the correct word is resolution or definition or whatever, but I hear a lot more detail in the music and can now hear the difference between MP3 songs encoded at 128, 256, or 320kbps. I love em, money well spent.

Update: 2010

I've had these five years now. They've been in repair twice for broken wires (this time they fixed it for free). Ety's service department is very good, and clearly the ER-4Ps last a long time. I wouldn't have anything else.

* * *

[1996]

I had ER-6i's for a year. Now I have the ER-4P. Summary for both: they sound great. They block out almost all noise. If you want to know about isolation and sound quality, I have a review of the ER-6i.

There are significant differences between the 6i and 4P, though sound quality isn't one. The ER-4P is simply a better-built set of earphones. Here's my comparison:

1. The pictures of the ER-4P show differently-colored earphones. A brilliant idea, if amazon had sent them instead of the black ones. Why brilliant? If you are middle aged, wearing non-bifocal sunglasses, it can be a pain to tell which earplug is left and right by reading a 1mm label on the plug. If you have differently colored earplugs, you immediately know "Red is right" or whatever it is.

2. The flanges on the 6i started coming off in my ears (I probably needed to replace them). It is not a funny matter to have ear flanges stuck deep in your ears. Or maybe it is amusing to see somebody digging in their ear with a pen to get the flange out. In any case, the ER-4P ear flanges are held on much more securely than the 6i's flanges.

3. The ER-6i's are cute and tiny. Unfortunately, they are tiny enough that you can't easily get them out of your ear when seated properly, unless you either carry needle nosed pliers or pull on the wires. Pulling on the wires is not A Good Thing because there is no strain relief. It seems inevitable you will end up damaging the wires. The ER-4P has beautifully done strain relief and little handles that look odd sticking out of your ear. Easy to grasp.

4. And speaking of strain relief, the 4P mini jack has a right angle outlet for the wire, vs. the 6i which is straight. The 4P jack is tougher and more convenient.

5. The wires on the 4P are heavier. Seemingly more durable. Never had problems with the 6i (except where it connects to the earphone), but it's a point.

6. The ER-4P comes with six ear flanges and a bunch of those foamy things I never use. The 6i comes with a pair of each. More, in that sense, for your money.

7. The warranty is longer for the ER-4P than the 6i. Given the more delicate nature of the 6i, I can see how Etmymotic can do that.

So is paying twice the price worth it for about the same sound and isolation? I can rationalize it because my 6i's broke due to pulling on the wires after a year (I tried not, but it's tough) and I think the 4ps will last twice as long. You need to consider your usage pattern, your spousal relationship, and your bank account before deciding.

If you are accustomed to puffs. This is a different experience. These go in your ear canals. This itches a bit. The noise cancellation arrising from this is a pleasure. I don't recommend them for work though, because you will not know when someone is calling you. For commuting on train or bus, this is where they really distinguish themselves, all you hear is music. You will be aware if the PA system is used but you will need to remove the ear piece to comprehend.

Now most importantly, the sound: If you have gotten used to products that enhance sound, these will be quite different. They are very true. This may not be to all tastes. We all have our preferences. I believe these are best enjoyed when you have ample room to adjust EQ.

They are quite superior to what is supplied with an iPod, however you will need to set eq to get back the bass that disappears due to the trueness of sound if that is what your taste dictates. Once I adjusted the eq I was quite pleased. The biggest difference in sound will not be appreciated as much while listening to MP3s. This will come through listening to high quality CDs and vinyl.

I like them but these are points to consider before you make the investment.

DON'T LOSE THEM!

I have purchase and used each of the Bose noise canceling headphones. I mainly use them on planes where I do a fair amount of international travel and want to block out surrounding noise. The Etymotic earphones are much better in blocking out noise and the quality of the sound is superb. I plug the headphones directly into an iPod or computer with no need for any kind of amplifier. They are almost too good sometimes as I don't hear the PA system announcing that it is time to put away electronic gear and the flight attendant has to tap me on the shoulder.

The only weakness of these earphones, besides the high price, is the sensitivity of the cord. Because so much of the electronics are within the cords you can hear a hissing noise as they rub on your shirt - so just avoid having the cord rub. Another cautionary note: Although I am very comfortable having a rubber flanged ear plug in my ear canal have slept for hours on flights with reasonable comfort, I know many people are not happy inserting anything into their ears. This is something definitely to work out in advance; your comfort level with in the ear canal plugs.

Yes, you have to hear them to believe all the hype. I decided to finally make the plunge after auditioning a set owned by my friend - he had spare plugs, don't get grossed out. I find the rubber flanges get a bit uncomfortable in my ears after a while, and don't seal perfectly, so I use the foamies most of the time except when I run. The foamies seal out ALL noise coming through the ear canal. The user manual says 42db reduction and after years wearing every manner of foamies (I'm a helicopter pilot), I believe their claim. Deep rumble on an airplane comes through via bone conduction, so I recommend some inexpensive NR headphones *over* the ER-4P for max airplane effectiveness. The Bose QC2 gives you great sound for airplane use, but you can't use them in quiet environments because of the ever-present hiss. These do have some "travel" if the cable rubs on your clothing, so they have a little clip to help keep them off your clothes, and from pulling on your ears.

With the ER-4Ps I'm *spoiled* now. You can hear the internal noise of your computer. I can listen to my iPod with the sound turned down to *zero* - even one segment is enough for quiet environments. The box these come in is big (think 1980s walkman), so I keep mine packed in the included soft case when not in use, with spare flanges so others can try them out. If you are serious about music, and want to hear all the audio artifacts in your mp3s (and by extension the best reproduction from your lossless tracks), you should get these, stop looking, and enjoy. They are that good.

Edit: Some people have asked me about the bass response. I'll have to admit, I thought the bass was a bit missing too. What I've discovered is that the bass is there, and perfectly isolated. But my ears had been spoiled by years of bad bass reproduction on other headphones & speakers. I had to retrain my ears to appreciate the bass coming from this set. When you get a good seal with either the foamies or the rubber plugs, the bass is certainly there. The headphones won't rattle your skull (which you certainly wouldn't want) as with can headphones or a subwoofer: the effect is completely different. You hear the bass tone without the bass rumble. Kinda hard to describe in words. You'll get studio-quality audio isolation and be able to hear all the bass (and the rest of the music) you've been missing.

After reviewing many different headphones, and owning Shure e2c's for a few months, I bit the bullet and purchased a pair of Etymotic ER-4P's. I listen almost exclusively to opera and classical music with a smattering of classic jazz.

In short, these are the most accurate headphones I've ever heard. The reproduction is wide and accurate with little distortion. These earphones are so good, the limit is often the quality of the source rather than the earphones.

Accuracy: Superb. No artificial bass bloat. Slight dip in upper mid-range, not normally audible. There is a crisp, belllike sound to music. Voices and solo piano are astounding. Percussion is precise.

Freq resp: Wide and essentially flat. Bass on the source is reproduced accurately with gentle roll off in the lowest octave.

Comfort: Very, very good, but highly dependant on fit. Etymotic provides different eartips. Experimentation is essential as is giving yourself some time to adapt to shoving something into your ear canals. There are optional eartips for those people with small (like me) or large ear canals. You can even get custom fit tips from your local audiologist, but those get pricey.

Sound isolation: The tops, especially with the foam eartips. The Etymotics isolate much better than even the "active isolation" headphones. They sound much, much better, too. Forget those lousy, muddy sounding Bose headphones.

Construction: Pretty rugged considering their size. Wires are thin, but wrapped in shrink tubing from end-to-end. There are proper strain reliefs at the ends. The wires a somewhat stiff but flexible enough to fold up and tuck in extra length.

Included: Very deluxe foam-lined hard case. Small foam zipper travel case with interior mesh pocket for extras. Gold plated 1/4" phone adaptor. Five pair medium foam eartips. Three pair tri-flange eartips. Two pair of replaceable earwax filters. Combination filter storage/replacement tool. Anti-microphonic wire clip. Owner's manual.

Who should *not* buy Etymotic ER-4P: People who aren't happy with music unless their diaphram is vibrating. People like the sound of a cheap boom box. People who are afraid to cram small objects into their ear canals.

Who should buy Etymotic ER-4P: Travellers who like beautiful music but not the roar of jet engines. Anybody wanting uncompromised personal sound reproduction.

Caveats: Good fit is essential to good sound. If you do not get these inserted properly, bass and imaging will be weak and isolation will be poor. An iPod will drive these earphones very nicely and will sound beautifully, but not to the ER-4P's full capability. External, high quality ear phone amplifiers are available that will take the Etymotics to their full promise. Most people won't need one as these amps can be expensive. If you do opt for an amp, you should spring for the ER-4S adaptor cable which increases the earphone's impedance and further enhances their accuracy and sound quality. The wires are microphonic, meaning that it is audible when they brush against your clothing, etc. Etymotic includes a clip with which to attach the wire to your shirt--I do this at the collar--so the wires don't transmit vibrations to your ears. Eating while wearing these is possible, but you'll hear more chewing than music.

My overall satisfaction is very high. I use my Etymotics all the time. Absolutely top knotch sound. Well worth the price, especially at current street prices. Standard iPod phones sound like a string and tin cans next to these.

These are very good headphones if you plan on being in a still position. I would not recommend this for walking down the street, doing any kind of aerobic movements, or turning over in your bed. For me the microphone on these headphones is just too sensitive, any move you make you'll hear it in your ears. The white flanged earbuds are also uncomfortable when inserted in your ears. I guess I'm not really a fan of having things stuffed down in your ear. The other foam earbuds are alittle more comfortable. You'll definately want to use these for extended use. They provide excellent I mean excellent sound. You're able to hear the lows and highs of any song. Often times I was hearing things in my old CDs I never heard before. I do however think they are overpriced at $330. So shop around to find them cheaper trust me you will. Do not I repeat do not pay above $220 for these. Overall these are really good headphones a bit pricey, and a bit uncomfortable in the ear, a bit annoying microphone, but they provide excellent sound.