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30 of 33 people found the following review helpful
4.0 out of 5 stars Comparing EU4 to EU3 - Overall A Significant Improvement
Paradox has a reputation for releasing games with significant defects that are not fixed until later patching, so I wasn't sure if it made sense to start playing EU4 so early after release. However with around 25 hours of gameplay I haven't had to deal with any significant bugs.

The gameplay is at least as balanced as in EU3, probably more balanced. Only the...
Published 15 months ago by Christopher Ammons

versus
1 of 1 people found the following review helpful
1.0 out of 5 stars Didn't work: User support from hell
This product is sold by Steam through Amazon.com. Steam's support is horrendous. They send you on a wild goose chase to the original manufacturer when you need assistance and it is immensely difficult to obtain the help you need. I haven't been able to get this product to function on either of my systems since day one and have been unable to get reasonable support...
Published 2 months ago by Reece


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30 of 33 people found the following review helpful
4.0 out of 5 stars Comparing EU4 to EU3 - Overall A Significant Improvement, September 6, 2013
This review is from: Europa Universalis IV Digital Extreme Edition [Online Game Code] (Software Download)
Paradox has a reputation for releasing games with significant defects that are not fixed until later patching, so I wasn't sure if it made sense to start playing EU4 so early after release. However with around 25 hours of gameplay I haven't had to deal with any significant bugs.

The gameplay is at least as balanced as in EU3, probably more balanced. Only the prestige system seemed to me to need noticeably reworking as it was far too easy to keep/maintain high levels of prestige. Congratulations to paradox for releasing a game with dozens of leveling-up systems to have almost all of them working well.

The most noticeable change from EU3 is the technology system. I find the "monarch points" system used significantly improves on the system used in EU3. You can not directly adjust the resources you want to put into them as in EU3, instead you accumulate a certain amount of monarch points a month, determined primarily by the attributes of your monarch (luck) and, to a lesser extent, your advisers.

However executing many decisions also requires use of these common monarch points. Reducing war exhaustion, for example, will slow down technological growth. (Stability is increased through use of monarch points, not through passage of time alone, as in EU3.) Incorporating territories won after war will slow down technological growth, building large numbers of structures in the mid-late game will slow down technological growth. Having too many alliances, or too many generals, can slow down technological growth, and so on.

In EU3 how exactly expansion impaired technology growth required understanding a rather complex and obtuse algorithm that was not readily accessible to players in the game, in EU4 however the relationship is simple, direct, easy to understand. A marked improvement here!

Mercenaries, which were mostly useless in EU3, now are crucial and almost necessary to use extensively. The strength of mercenary units regenerates over time, unlike in EU3, so using a mercenary or partly mercenary army in a war is a viable option.

Manpower recovers much more slowly in EU4 than in EU3, the result being that pointless wars and quagmires are much more costly. A successful war against a weaker enemy can leave you vulnerable 10-20 years after due to the depletion of manpower. Like in EU3, the most important decisions made are usually when and when not to fight in wars.

EU3 did a good job compared to other grand stategy games in presenting significant costs and drawbacks to territorial expansion. More territory is not always better. This emphasis continues in EU4. Like I mentioned earlier, if you expand you will have to delay technological growth. When you conquer a new territory you will have to rebuild all structures, so even a high quality territory will not start pulling its weight until dozens of years after it is obtained. Breaking up a large power territoriality by using the release nations option also bears significant cost.

Some other changes I can think of:

-Taking out loans is now a viable often rational decision, rather than an indicator that you are failing/collapsing.
-Inflation's influence is greatly reduced, compared to EU3 where maintaining proper rates of inflation was crucial to success.
-The combat system,random events, religion, role of navies seems largely preserved from EU3.
-The diplomacy system is largely preserved, but is improved and less gamey, you cannot, for example, keep relations high by continuing to send gifts.
-The trade system is simplified. I'm yet undecided if this improves over EU3, or unnecessarily simplifies.
-Cultural tradition is no longer present, advisers function quite differently.
-Changing government attributes via the "scale" system (free trade vs mercantilism, religious vs innovative etc) has been removed.
-Constables have been removed, income is main factor limiting production of new buildings.
-Manufactures are less powerful, simply doubling trade goods produced and providing no other benefits.
-Primitive nations have huge amounts of gold in their treasuries, so conquering them can bring huge rewards.

*

The problematic and weak points of the game are, I find are all shared with EU3.

The mission card system is useless. Why would I fight a major war to gain 25 diplomatic power? The few options that are viable are overpowered. By building 3 forts, I was able to improve my army tradition 15 points.

Weather is included, but seems to have neglible effect on game mechanics. This opposed to real life, where military campaigning in Western Europe was rare to unheard of in winter months. Also, shouldn't I be seeing snow in the southern hemisphere when it is winter in the north?

The game is quite fun at the beginning when you have little power and are trying to accumulate more of it. The fun is considerably lessened when you become very powerful, and game feels pointless once you become hegemonic. By 1650, playing as Austria, I had twice the income and military strength than anyone else and could do whatever I wanted, so why play on?

If your computer has a slow processor, it will take a very long time indeed to play. My 2013 desktop with a very weak processor makes it such that 7 game years takes about 1 hour. To play fully through the game I have to put it at the center of my activities for more than a week. Of course nothing that game developers can be faulted for, but something for people with old or weak computers to keep in mind.

What good reason is there to be able to access, via the ledger, perfect information on all nations economy and military strength. To have perfect information on all aspects. Since you can know when an enemy is weak, you can easily wait until then and fight and win an easy war. Numerous times I wasn't even considering an attack, until I looked at the ledger and realized I had an easy victory. Wouldn't it make more sense to have this information partially inaccessible and/or sometimes inaccurate, to only be able to access it via action of spies?

The biggest lacking in the game by far though is the AI. Specifically, how the AI handles war. (The AI appears decent though occasionally bizarre in diplomacy and economic management.) Yes, it's understood that it's all but impossible to program AI to handle strategic aspects of war, and also it extremely difficult to program sensible human-like tactical behavior. I understand the difficulty of the problem from a game developers perspective, but that shouldn't be an excuse for downright AI stupidity.

The AI fights all wars in the same way. Once you grasp what this way is you need only to follow a few very basic, very intuitive ideas to be able to win against him. The AI does retreat if it sees that your army is bigger, but you can still usually chase them down with your bigger army and defeat them. "Tactics" is little more than tediously clicking on the correct province as both armies move around. Once war is declared the AI usually will start sieging on of your provinces. Even if you out number them 10-1 AI will send army in to attack you. How hard is it to program AI not to engage if at an overwhelming disadvantage? Or to keep separate armies close to each other so they can help each other if one of them is attacked? If a big power and small power are allied in a war, why not have the small power attach its armies to the larger, instead of wasting their armies in tiny counter attacks?

Naval AI is arguably worse still. I was playing Austria at war with Ottoman Empire. Ottoman empire has one navy 5 times the size of mine, and two small navies. The large navy is blockading Venezia. I take my navy over to Constantinople and destroy both small navies. The large one never breaks off it's siege. (In Hearts of Iron 3, another paradox game, I was able to destroy the entire Japanese Fleet because it wouldn't leave port.)

The place for improvement in the Europa Universalis series is undoubtedly the AI.

In sum though, I was impressed with how solid EU4 was. Compared to EU3 it is undoubtedly an improvement, so if you liked the former you should like this one.
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16 of 19 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Best Paradox Title, ridiculous game value, August 20, 2013
This review is from: Europa Universalis IV Digital Extreme Edition [Online Game Code] (Software Download)
I reluctantly pre-ordered this game due to Paradox Interactive's (PI) tendency to release bug-ridden games. But this is not the case as this is the most polished, enthralling PI game I've played from the get-go.

In EUIII did you ever hate placing individual merchants/bureaucrats/colonists? Did you find technologies to be too abstract and tedious? Did you ever hate, when playing Russia, the Cherokee DOWd you due to your infamy?

EUIV repairs so many of the weird quirks of EUIII, makes it much more approachable and engaging all the way to the end-game. The graphics are beautiful, the new diplomacy system is balanced, the trade system is much more logical, warfare is much less annoying (no more endless ping-pong rebel armies), etc. Overall the game is just more immersive from the start even for newcomers.

Countries are kept in check from becoming behemoth empires due to the same mechanics from EUIII (warnings, guarantees, alliances), but EUIV introduces coalitions against a country, which is a great way of uniting the small nations of Europe to contain blobs. If you are successful expect to see coalitions formed against you, which will make your goal to conquer the world much much more interesting and challenging.

Only downsides I would include are the occasional (expected) bugs, which are relatively minor as I said. Also, outside of Europe countries are a bit more streamlined - but expect plenty of expansions and DLC in coming years.

This game will become much better with time (and mods). The community is awesome and you can always count on strangers to help you out with strategical advice. Few games out there have such endless replayability. A+
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25 of 31 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Epic! Heaven for a Geopolitics Junky!, August 15, 2013
This review is from: Europa Universalis IV Digital Extreme Edition [Online Game Code] (Software Download)
*Stunning Graphics
*Infinite re-playability
*Strategy over Tactics, Geopolitics over Battlefields
*Choose ANY nation on the planet
*400 years of History
*Dynamic, and Realistic events, progression, and AI
...Amazing! :)

First of all, considering I've spent most of the last several days since launch either playing EUIV or thinking about EUIV, and how its THE game I've always been looking for in a grand strategy game, it saddens me that the first two reviews on here knock EUIV for technical delivery issues that have nothing to do with the game, nor have I experienced... Anyways!

I'm traditionally a Total War fanatic, and yes I'm counting the seconds until TW:Rome2 like any other, however as much as I like a good tactical battle in its swords, screams, and glory, what I've always loved most about Total War and Civilization games is the gameplay on the macro level, the geopolitics between nations etc, and this game focuses exclusively on that. Yes there's war a plenty, and its fun, dynamic and realistic, but you don't have to focus on the tactical of battles, you have military people for that, you focus on everything else which is more than enough.

In addition to the huge timescape, from the 1400's to the 1800's, the graphics are stunning, the politics, economics, warfare, everything its so dynamic so realistic, it feels so like your taking charge of a real country during the time period. I started out playing as Castille in Spain and watched from afar as France and England duked it out at the end of the 100 years war, and France finally began to coalesce into a real nation state of its own, all the while marrying into Arogon, Portugal, and Austria out of necessity and setting the seeds for Charles to lead the Holy Roman Empire in Spain, Netherlands, and Austria, not to mention probing out into the new world... Not to copy history, but because the real geopolitical and economical forces justify a similar course to history, showing how much of history was not on the whim of a rule, but based on colliding forces like a storm. Although much is still left for you to decide, from the small details to the biggest, although you can play literally any nation on the planet, you'll see that history can be changed in big ways, but there are reasons why the Inca Empire didn't conquer Europe, or Germany didn't coalesce into a nation of its own right for many more centuries.

If you like geopolitics, or grand strategy, similar to Civilization or Total War, PLEASE check out this game. Go see the reviews on PC Gamer and IGN, watch the videos, you'll be convinced. This game is epic, and quite literally everything I've ever hoped for in a strategy game. I'm euphoric and amazed!!
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13 of 16 people found the following review helpful
4.0 out of 5 stars A lot to love and to hate *Updated, August 27, 2013
By 
This review is from: Europa Universalis IV Digital Extreme Edition [Online Game Code] (Software Download)
I have played and enjoyed the previous games in this series, so I was excited when this game received such positive reviews. I hoped that Paradox improved some of the flaws in the previous versions. After about 60 hours of playing and experimenting, my impression is fairly settled.

For those who played the old EU games, you will find this to be a richer, even more complex experience. For those who haven't, the game will inevitably be compared to 2 other labels. It is more strategic than the Total War series, lacking the tactical element of taking over your units in battle, but it compensates for this by being much more robust and realistic in the management of your country's economy, diplomacy, etc. It is more similar to a game like Crusader Kings II (also made by Paradox, so the visuals of the game are very similar indeed), but whereas that game focused on individuals and families EU4 focuses on countries.

There is a lot to like. There are nuances to managing a country that go far beyond any other game (including previous EU games). The use of Administrative, Diplomatic, and Military Power (points to be
spent on actions or technologies) in addition to monetary currency (ducats) is a brilliant way to balance growth versus internal improvement. There is a lot of potential for micromanaging, which is good for the sort of player that this game will appeal to. Just as an example (and this is only one of many), there are multiple levels of religion and culture. When you are playing as Castile and conquer Granada, you will almost certainly want to convert that province's population to Catholicism. But what about when you conquer a Protestant province? How accepting do you want to be towards the various subsets of Iberian cultures? There are tradeoffs between diversity and uniformity. In fact, nearly every decision has a pretty balanced tradeoff, which makes the game wonderfully challenging. In the process, the player is going to get a great education both with respect to history and also to the complexities of management and international relations.

Interspersed with all this great stuff are quite a few problems. Some are relatively minor, such as inconsistencies that make me scratch my head wondering what the designers were thinking. I gain 10 prestige for winning a war and taking a few provinces from France, then lose 33 prestige because I need to fire a bailiff in one of my home provinces? Huh? By the 6th or 8th time your people see a comet in the sky and freak out (causing the same stability penalty as when your beloved monarch of 50 years dies and is replaced by his invalid son) you will find yourself wishing the developers wrote in a few different events, or at least made that one less frequent.

But the biggest problem is battles, and this is no minor thing. You will fight a lot of wars in your 400 years as immortal ruler of your country, so battles are one of the most important mechanics of the game. You will have a lot of "WTF just happened?" moments. The game uses an interesting and fairly sophisticated combination of shock, maneuver, morale, technology, and many other factors in order to deliver what appears to be an extremely unrealistic, arbitrary resolution to battles. You will quickly learn to never, EVER voluntarily fight a battle on anything approaching even odds. Not only are you almost certain to lose, but the ramifications of losing are absurdly one-sided. You will get very frustrated when you lose a battle and see that you lost 6,000 troops and the AI lost 6. Risk your 20k army against his 20k army and you will often lose not only the battle but control of your army as it retreats, gets chased and attacked again, repeat, and liquidated into literally (not figuratively, I do mean literally) nothing, while your enemy in one month replenishes all the way to his original strength. On the other hand, quickly augment your 20k army with 10k mercs and you will liquidate the AI army just as quickly, and with almost no casualties of your own. Learn to crush much larger countries using this trick and this game goes from challenging to relatively easy. (Note: there should of course be a random element to battles, and one should sometimes lose fights they expect to win. The 6000 casualties vs 6 could and should happen every once in a while, and there will be occasional surprises. Unfortunately, EU4 has not found that balance.)

Three stars in this case doesn't mean relative indifference so much as love-hate. In my experience the game is characterized by extended periods of addictive gameplay, interrupted by occasional moments of extreme frustration. When I was writing the positives in this review, and thinking about the good stuff, I was excited to start my next game. Then I wrote the negatives and felt the proverbial "oh yeah, I think I'll go grocery shopping instead." It is a game I will revisit once in a while, but won't be one of those that make me disappear from friends and family for days at a time. So maybe that's a good thing...?

Update: I came back to the game after a few weeks and a patch or two. Whether it is because of some fixes, my own familiarity with some of the quirky mechanics of the game, some je ne sais quoi, or (most likely) all of the above, I find myself enjoying it much more. There are still the occasional WTF moments and combat is still seriously flawed, but knowing what to expect keeps the angst to a minimum and delving a little deeper into the complexities of the game has been a rewarding challenge. I read a little about The Three Mountains achievement (conquering the world as Okinawa) and although it is utterly, ridiculously impossible to attain it does make one reflect on the creative out-of-the-box goals one can set for themselves.

The net-net is that I am raising my score to a 4/5. As a sandbox game EU4 excels, if one has the patience to work through its steep learning curve and flawed battle engine.
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8 of 10 people found the following review helpful
4.0 out of 5 stars [Was] Disappointing [Update] Major Changes, October 2, 2013
By 
Griswel (Rochester, NY) - See all my reviews
(VINE VOICE)   
This review is from: Europa Universalis IV Digital Extreme Edition [Online Game Code] (Software Download)
EU4 released to good reviews and I've spent more than 200 hours playing over the last two months. If you've never played a prior version, it's tough to sum up in a sentence or two. You play as any country anywhere on earth that existed in 1444, and you can roll the start date forward more than three centuries and play as any country that existed in any of those years (the game still ends in 1820, though). Generally, pick powerful countries when you're new to the game, and weaker ones as you improve.

EU4 improves many areas of play from EU3. Trade is better by leaps and bounds. Navy is integrated into trade and a real necessity. Diplomatic relations are improved by spending Diplomat time, a limited resource. The Monarch Points system is a good way to make you choose between priorities, though when you get stuck with an awful ruler for decades, you may learn to hate it. The biggest change is that EU4 nations are no longer as vanilla as EU3, every one has different National Ideas, bonuses you get when you make certain other improvements (these other improvements are the same for any nation). There's a big difference between countries, and it shows when you go up against them, or if you play as them.

All in all, there are many improvements in the look of the game, in the mechanics, and yet the core of the game is the same EU I've been playing for more than a decade. Or it was. The Devs decided that the way people were playing the game when it was released involved too many easy ways of succeeding. They released version 1.2, which added some free stuff and interface improvements, but clamped down on expanding. Now, this is a war game at heart. If you're not expanding, you're not playing (with the exception of Colonial/Trade only powers such as Portugal). The players who are used to conquering the entire world while starting as any small country welcomed the "challenge", most players it just drives crazy. I gave up on the game as more frustration than it was worth.

If you've played EU3, I recommend trying EU4. And I'm glad you're recovered from that coma which kept you from buying the game at release. Just get used to needing to play a stronger nation at the start than you'd expect, and expect the game to bog down after 150-200 years (remember Vicky2 at release, where you could only play 50 years before rebellions shut down the game? same thing only now it's coalitions). Well, it bogs down until they fix it, which might happen.

If you've never played a prior version of Europa Universalis, I say skip this one. Pick up Crusader Kings 2 if you haven't already. There's a game where they were worried more about making the game fun than in punishing success. Watch for EU4 to be on sale for half price or less before taking the chance. Check back in 2014 and see what they've done to it. Right now, for a new player, EU4 is, well, more frustration than it's worth.

NOTE - You're not buying the game from Amazon as much as you are from Steam. You get a Steam "key", which lets you play the game. Steam is only needed to download the game and any updates (upgrades are mandatory at Steam, no playing the release v1.1 for you!). You can play offline.

Digital Extreme Edition - This is the same review I wrote for the main game. The DEE is what I bought, but the bonus items are not worth the extra $5.

UPDATE - I added a star. The Developers have seriously scaled back on the gamey way to expand they'd left open before (Vassal Feeding), but increased your ability to conquer outright, with patch 1.4. The importance of Coalitions is therefore dramatically reduced (they still form, but you have to do a lot more conquering to make them what they used to be). 1.4 crashes more, but I'm sure that when they patch it the game will be as stable as before (it crashed twice in my first 400 hours and three times in the last 20).

Well worth buying when it's on sale. You'll often find it for half price, sometimes as low as one fourth the list price.
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2 of 2 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Amazingly deep, great support from Developers, July 24, 2014
By 
Nick A (Denver, CO) - See all my reviews
Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Europa Universalis IV Digital Extreme Edition [Online Game Code] (Software Download)
I read good things about the EU series in the past (and Paradox games in general) but never took the plunge. I don't know why since these types of games are ones that I've gravitated towards for years, plus I'm a history nerd at heart. The biggest appeal to EU, at least for me, is that it is based in history and you essentially start out as the world was in 1444, right before the fall of Constantinople. Being rooted in history is a refreshing change after too many of my Civ games had the Aztec or something turning into Nuclear powers. In EU4, you can play as a small, one territory state or weaker nation, but the cards are stacked against you doing anything for long (I tried this as Athens, I lasted 50 years before the Ottoman Empire remembered I existed).

The last empire building strategy game I was heavily into was Galactic Civilizations II. I've also played the Civilization series going back to Civ II, so I have heavy experience in the genre.

Or so I thought. EU IV has a high learning curve and is deeper than every game I've played to this point. This is a great thing, since after a while I feel most games are lacking in that respect. As a total newcomer to Paradox games and the EU series, I was overwhelmed and it took some serious time investment to learn the fundamentals of the game and how to be competitive/successful.

First attempt was with Castille. I was moderately successful for about 100 years, reconquering Grenada and making gains into North Africa. Then I realized I had no idea how monarch points work and how the economy worked. I fell behind in tech and France-Aragon alliance wiped me out.

Second attempt was with France. I made strong gains and established colonies in the new world. However, I was exposed on too many fronts and wound up in a long, costly war with the English/Austrians. The end result was the release of half of my territory into independent states and a shattered economy/military with revolutions popping up everywhere.

Third attempt was with Venice. By this point I had a handle on economics and balancing expansion/war with leveling up my techs. I survived fairly late into the game but wound up getting wiped out by an Ottoman-Austrian alliance that reduced me to one territory.

Fourth attempt: Milan, inspired by them being a constant thorn in my side as Venice. This is the first game I put everything together. I went from 1444 to the end (1820something), forming Italy and becoming a major power. Among other things, I neutralized Austria as a power, kept France at bay, and culminated with an end game push to kick the Ottoman Empire out of Greece (seizing it for myself).

Current attempt is Germany via Prussia via Teutonic Order. This was insanely fun and I eventually seized control of the Holy Roman Empire while fighting off Russia, France and Austria. Game and its concepts finally clicked and I "get it." Next attempt will likely be something smaller.

The learning curve overall took about 30 hours of play. Most of this was trial and error, and getting far enough into the game to realize that I screwed up so badly that I need to restart. This time is also likely inflated from the issues Ironman cloud-saving had/has, that resulted in 5 minute save times (Ironman is a mode that requires a 1444 start date and allows Steam Achievements). That would have been enough to dock a star, and if I wrote this before the recent patch that allowed offline Ironman saves I would have given it 4 stars for the hassle. Since the patch that allows for offline Ironman, my games go much faster.

Paradox is extremely good about getting patches and hotfixes out to support the game, so the version I'm playing now is completely different in several concepts from the vanilla unpatched version. This is great, especially in an age where support tends to be lackluster at best.

The game is integrated into Steam, so if this isn't your thing for whichever reason stay away. I don't mind it and it allows me to move the game between multiple computers. That being said, cloud saves would hang my system heavily. This was very annoying and was a turnoff. I don't know if that's still the case as I switched over to offline saves as soon as they were patched in.

Bottom line, the game is brutal when you start off, but is extremely rewarding when you get the gameplay concepts down. The game is insanely deep and provides a jumping off point at a historically critical point. You can play out a number of what-if scenarios if you "get" the concepts. You need to invest the time into the game to get to that point, and it will take several wipeouts to learn lessons the hard way (or a few hours watching Youtube tutorials). Must buy for history/strategy fans.
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1 of 1 people found the following review helpful
1.0 out of 5 stars Didn't work: User support from hell, October 7, 2014
Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Europa Universalis IV Digital Extreme Edition [Online Game Code] (Software Download)
This product is sold by Steam through Amazon.com. Steam's support is horrendous. They send you on a wild goose chase to the original manufacturer when you need assistance and it is immensely difficult to obtain the help you need. I haven't been able to get this product to function on either of my systems since day one and have been unable to get reasonable support. This product may work on your system but it hasn't worked on mine (both meet all system requirements) and there hasn't been sufficient assistance available. I'm thus stuck with a $40 game that doesn't work.
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1 of 1 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars An excellent, deep grand strategy game, March 26, 2014
This review is from: Europa Universalis IV Digital Extreme Edition [Online Game Code] (Software Download)
This is an extremely addicting strategy game that has a lot of similarity to Total War. Instead, the combat complexity is scaled down and much more focus is placed on nation building and diplomacy. The game is very deep and you will want to play it multiple times to test out a variety of diverse nations. This is a game that will be very difficult to start out with, but incredibly rewarding once you learn how to play.
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1 of 1 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Great Game!, January 20, 2014
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This review is from: Europa Universalis IV Digital Extreme Edition [Online Game Code] (Software Download)
If you are the kind of gamer who enjoys games like Supreme Ruler then this is a game you will thoroughly enjoy!
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1 of 1 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Just Perfect, January 20, 2014
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This review is from: Europa Universalis IV Digital Extreme Edition [Online Game Code] (Software Download)
For those that love paradox games, this is the final achievement for them. They solve almost all issues of EUIII adding features learnt in CKII. The game is well balanced and really fun
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