Customer Reviews

Fantasy Wargaming

5 star:		(2)
4 star:		(3)
3 star:		(0)
2 star:		(1)
1 star:		(2)

 

 

I'm reading through some of the comments folks are making here, and I have to wonder...are some of you even aware that this game was published in the early 80s, which means most of its rules, text, and thought process would have been formed and written even earlier than that (likely by several years).

So you're reading the though process of a guy writing a game in a time where there weren't many RPGs out there, nor many examples of how best to organize and layout a rules text (the very concept of "layout & design" barely existed in the early 80s). ALL games published at that time were essentially vanity press. The first copies of D&D were pamphlets stapled by hand and shipped in ziploc bags from a basement.

I mean its all well and good to highlight pros and cons, but at least get some perspective of what you're talking about before opening your mouth. Yes you DO need that many pages describing how to properly base your normans for combat, because back when this game was written Roleplaying was still evolving from tabletop miniatures wargame rules. There's a reason why the name of the book is Fantasy WARGAMING and not Fantasy ROLEPLAYING.

This book was groundbreaking, revolutionary, and far ahead of the curve for anything else available commercially at the time. I played the hell out of it back in the day. Would I play it today as written? Maybe for nostalgia purposes, like dusting off an old Atari 2600 or NES game, but otherwise, admire this book for what it is, a splendid piece of history and an amazing artifact of a key time in the development of the hobby.

This rule system is based on the "reality" of the Dark Ages / medieval period in which the "reality" includes magic and monsters, but only as recorded in the mythos of the period.

The book is also an above average example of HOW a rules system is evolved in that the author explains the background of the rules rather than simply presenting them.

Organizationally, this book will take some figuring out by the most experienced rules maven, due to format and organization. Is it worth it? It is. Why?

1). The mesh-and-separation between ecclisiastical and sorcerous magick is first-rate, with the standard operations and sacraments of the Church having a role and flavor and effect of their own quite apart from what spellcasting is like; Saints angels and even the Virgin and the Trinity play a role in filling out the overall picture of the world (and, just posisbly, as encounters!)--along with demons and the Prince of Darkness! Since FW first came out, a few systems have had such systems worked out that read, more satisfyingly, like an actual grimoire than the Edition 2 D and D Monster Manual--but, along with Draqgon Quest, this wa sone of teh first--and DQ never had Saints and Angels, an area that many RPG designers shy away from to this day, at the cost of some color.

2). Yet, despite what reviewers on this site and elsewhere claim, the Cosmology is hardly hegemonically Christian--the Norse Gods are spelt out, on their own terms, again with enough overlaps and yet enough disti nctness that they make a difference in the system and yet participate in the system. Indeed, someone playing a Norse warrior who places valor above humility and mercy in their actions, will go to Valhalla, not to Hell (though Niflheim is a real risk!)--for FW has the Christian God in conflict with, not in triumph over, a still-very-real, but much-depowered Norse pantheon. In short, FW successfully spells out the situation only hinted at in Boormans' Exaclibur or Mary Stewarts' Merlin novels.

3). The historical detail, in terms of detailing a world, is second-to-nearly none, exceeding Jorune or Glorantha. Since it is based in actual history, anyone that wishes to double-check or elaborate on what is presented need only go on Wikipedia or the public library.

That said, I have some issues with the specifically Anglo-Saxon bias of what is presented--you would never guess, from what they describem that the Welsh resisted absorption of their very-different culture and mythology to nearly the end of ther period that the game considers--the Scots and Irish are dealt simiarly short shrift--as are the Danes and Normans, both of whom, after all, successfully occupied the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms! Yet one would never know that these nations were more than borderland scatterlings by what is shown in FW. There is a similarly disappointing paucity of detail regarding the independant French Counties that so occupied the military attention, and provided so many British Monarchs, in the Norman period.

For all that is missing besides the Anglo-Saxon history and structure though, what is given yet exceeds what most RPG's offer by way of an elaborated world to this day. That is partly a comment on what is usually offered compared is really possible.

In many ways, FW went a lot further in exploring what an RPG cal depict in terms of background, than most of what has come later.

The reviewers that like this seem to understand it. I have had a great time with this book - it's one of those RPG books that if you read it as a DM, even if you don't play it, it will inform your play. Perfect level of detail. Quirky and "pervy" as we say - meaning it has it's own unique flavor that results from the meshing of the rules details and the setting details. I also found the art charming, and the design really unique and classy. The Boogey Table alone is worth owning the book for, and it lists the Virgin Mary's AC.

I was interested in this book from what I had heard of it, and from quickly glancing through it at the bookstore. It looked like a good attempt to place a fantasy roleplaying game in a real historical context.

Unfortunately, the book gives the impression that it was published using a vanity press, and never saw the services of a good editor. The authors waste most of a chapter on their own opinions of how to run a roleplaying session, and telling shaggy dog stories about great roleplaying sessions they have had. On the plus side, these sections are unintentionally hilarious.

Other chapters wallow in minutae -- does anyone REALLY need several pages telling you how to model an army of 500 Normans using 18 figures?!

The gaming system itself is based on astrological signs, which is somewhat interesting, but has obviously never been balanced by game play. The authors even go so far as to warn the player not to play women characters, and assign such characters hefty penalties to most of their stats! Guess they wanted to keep their game a boys only club.

The authors' strongest chapter, giving an excellent overview of medieval life, is worthless because the book contains no references or bibliography. Not only does this mean they are not giving proper credit for their sources, it also means a reader cannot use this book to find other reference books.

Throughout the book, formulas and die roll modifiers are badly presented in blocks of text instead of tables, ie Attacking at night -2 Attacking blind -4 Opponent is unaware +5.

Find this book used at less than half price, and take a thorough look through it before you buy.

The authors of this manual claim that Dungeons and Dragons restrict players' freedom through things like spell lists. While this opinion is up for debate, what is not is the mind-numbing hypocrisy of the authors, for near the end of the book, we find a...spell list. Also regarding freedom, the authors claim that GMs should give their players freedom, but then tell many stories and anecdotes where they, as GMs, kept it away. The authors spend much of their time bashing a lot of fantasy fiction, but then use another chapter to generally praise it all, causing even more cognitive dissonance.

The information on medieval history and society was interesting, but despite their numerous claims of "you can use these rules for any setting," the rules do in fact pretty much assume you're using the medieval setting, and most of those elements are almost impossible to remove without the entire ruleset collapsing. There's also a bit of POV which assumes that all players are Christians, that Christianity is superior to all other religions, and that witches especially are evil.

I know, many of you that have read the book and played the game may or may not agree with me. But as other reviewers have said, the game is historically accurate and interestingly based on astrology and a "bogey table" (today called advantages and disadvantages), but anyhow, enough superfluosity. My point is though I agree that this book and system was worked out like it was produced by a vanity press. That's the whole charm of it. The guts and grit of using your own imagination to work the system out instead of the author(s) "giving it to you on a silver platter". OOooh, what an amazing concept, a role playing game that IS a role-playing game at every level that you work out and act out instead of having the rules "act you out". I think its commendable that they even had this concept. And it was written in 1982 when TSR, FASA and all the big game companies were starting to make rules that "act you out", i.e., Doctor Who and the big comic book games. Though Fantasy Wargamming is of a completely different genre, I consider its concept a genuine precursor to games like Call of Cthulu or even (in a far-out sort of way) GURPS Riverworld, and (more directly) a cleaned up, more directed first edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons with its rough edges in all the right places which actually makes it perfectly tight instead of imperfectly loose like most RPGers say. Overstructuring is the ultimate weakness in any RPG, the current version of Dungeons and Dragons and most of its supplements proves that. People with enough time on their hands to hole themselves up and build & paint miniatures instead of rely genuinely on imagination proves that. Thus, I am not saying that Fantasy Wargaming is the ideal game. It is an ideal game. As a prototype and as a concept. Rules that play you and bog you down with statistics from using the bathroom to taking one step forward and doing 1/10 of the hokey-pokey are not good. But being "forced" to use your imagination, visualization, reference finding skills yet working within a "loosely defined" yet definitely defined enough for you to make-it-work system. That's good. Any RPGer would agree with me on that. AND THE WHOLE DOWNFALL OF MOST CURRENT RPG's IS THAT THEY PLAY THE PLAYER WITH STATISTICS WHEN STATISTICS ARE MADE FOR THE PLAYER TO PLAY WITH. That's what makes Fantasy Wargaming cool, it let's you play ultimately when you let loose from letting the rules play you. Happy role playing.

Captain Josh.

The only thing worthwhile in this book are two things that helped me: First, the Bogey table. We used this in our 1st edition AD&D and it always added to gameplay for our PC's. Second, the chapter on high fantasy fiction. I found a few good reads from the list. Other than those two points, the system is overbearing and hideously rules oriented. This last fact I find amusing since the authors point fingers at D&D and other gaming systems like GURPS.

We tried to play this system and it was full of inconsistencies. The Zodiac Magic system was verbose & unwieldy. The mass combat system made for a ridiculous amount of math from the GM. And the restrictions on gener with the bias towards male characters arelly are uncalled for since many of our gaming group like to mix it up with the gender choice for our PC's.

I have to agree with the other reviewers nad call this a trite effort from a vanity press. My edition is a hardbound and while I would not part with it, the fact is that this system is geared for mass combat in a Medieval (not fantasy) setting.

Originally, I had high hopes for this system but it's laden with all manner of silliness that is unnecessary to good game play. 1 star is all I can give this sophmomoric effort.