Customer Reviews

The Flame and the Flower

5 star:		(107)
4 star:		(10)
3 star:		(15)
2 star:		(20)
1 star:		(33)

 

 

I'm astonished by the amateur reviewers who aren't intelligent enough to read and analyze this book within the context of the time during which it was written. It was written in 1972, it was one of the first times women were allowed to read about sex outside of male pornography, and it was before the darkest and most delicious of female fantasies were sanitized by the modern scourge of "political correctness". It's immensely readable and the prose isn't purple, it's excellent writing. Perhaps Brandon should have been redeemed sooner; perhaps Heather should have displayed more spine, but within the historical setting of 1799 and given the age of the characters (17 & 35), it's actually probably more accurate than many of the romances written today where all the young misses are feisty and all the gents are enlightened. I first read the book when I was 15. I'm 39 now and still have trouble putting it down whenever I pick it up. As someone else so wisely said, it was written to be enjoyed, not analyzed. And I will never understand the readers/women who claim to be feminists, yet want to censor other women's fantasies as part of your political agenda. As a woman and a feminist, I'll read whatever I please, thank you, and that includes this marvelous classic.

I've read all the reviews and respect all the varying opinions, but I think the ones that slam this book, criticize the grammar and the characterizations are really missing the whole essence of this book. How someone can read this and not fall in love with Heather and Brandon, even a little bit, is beyond me. The rape scene bothers some people, I can understand that. I don't want my daughter reading a book and thinking that is okay either. The hero makes a BIG mistake, yes, and he realizes that. He also grows a lot, too. As does the heroine, who I'm tired of everyone saying how whiney and pitiful she was. She was not. She was soft and sweet and niave, which is a refreshing change from the feminists definition of what a woman should be nowadays. I think Kathleen Woodiwiss has a gift for making her characters seem so real you feel like you know them personally and intimately. I've yet to read an author in any genre of fiction who can match her ability. I read romance for the light-heartedness and warm fuzzy feelings you get when they confess their undying love for each other, not to analyze every word, punctuation, or stero-typed character. If you are looking for an historical romance to sweep you away, try this. I loved it when I read 10+ years ago and still enjoy it each time I read it, at least once a year. The Flame and the Flower will make you laugh and cry and want more from Ms. Woodiwiss.

This is such a great story but you may find it hard to like the characters. The basic plot is this: Heather Simmons, bereft and penniless after her father dies, is taken in by her uncle and very-abusive aunt, Fanny. Heather is forced to flee a dangerous situation and ends up in Brandon Birmingham's cabin on his ship, Fleetwood. He mistakes her for a prostitute and takes advantage of her. She ends up pregnant, he's forced to marry her, and the rest of the story is spent on them discovering their love and learning to trust each other.

Heather Simmons is not your typical fiery heroine. She's had to survive constant physical and emotional abuse from her aunt and being raped by Brandon. Hence, she is docile, skittish and lacks confidence in herself. Notwithstanding, Heather has strength inside of her that shines through. Brandon is not a likable character at all. After raping Heather, he offers to keep her as his mistress, against her will of course, until she escapes. He's used to being in control and having his way.

The characters do redeem themselves in the end. Heather flourishes under Brandon's care. She finds courage and confidence once she's secure of his love. Brandon learns what it is to love someone deeply, like the kind of love his parents shared.

A friend strongly recommended this book to me, and I unwisely read it. I was revolted. My friend insisted that after the initial few rapes, the hero really redeems himself and all is well... yeah, right. I could not bring myself to feel any warmth for a man who rapes a woman without remorse, and then - all while taunting and mocking her tears - tells her that she will have to be his mistress and will eventually come to beg for his attention (again, telling her this while silencing her protests with threats and mocking laughter, and forcing himself on her again and again!). Then, after she escapes and he finds out that she has become pregnant, he is galled at the thought of having to marry her and swears to her tear-filled face that he'll make her life miserable. Sure, much later in the book, he becomes more affectionate, but for me, nothing could wear off the impression of his initial assaults - and his cruel, cocky remorselessness - followed by the months of temperamental fits, snarling speech and debasing treatment. The fact that the heroine fell in love with this beast is something that can be attributable only to Stockholm Syndrome. She is stuck with him and tries to make the best of it, thanking the Lord that at least he's easy on the eyes. Ooh, how romantic; my knees are knocking. Regardless of what the cultural norms of the time were, Captain Birmingham's behavior is loathsome; one need look at his brother - a man raised in the same culture and era - to see who truly should have been the hero of the novel.

This has been only the second romance novel I've read; the first was Saving Grace by Julie Garwood - the hero there also likes to raise his voice and act in a gruff manner, but there's no mistaking the underlying humanity, integrity and gentleness in him, not to mention the fact that he truly respects the heroine, encourages her to be herself and does not try to squash her spirit (there, despite a nearly equal gap in ages to the one in The Flame and the Flower, I could understand why the two fell in love). So unlike the emotional and mental abuse heaped on the heroine of this novel, who is sufficiently broken and resigned to her lot to desire her repugnant husband's love! Before the inevitable declarations of mutual love, she is so starved of comfort that she snatches up any little kindess he occasionally offers when the whim strikes him. He's disgusting and distinguishable from the villains of the novel only by his good looks, which are supposed to somehow make up for his boorish behavior.

While I can repect some of the negative reviews, I would have to explain that....
Yes, some people may find the "purple prose" funny, and some people might abhor the fact that they think Brandon was a rapist.
The thing is, this book was written in the 70's and perhaps things were different then (Luke and Laura anyone?). If you will just remember it's an older book, and that really Brandon is no rapist, just confused (and don't forget, if things have changed this much in 30 years, how much different were things over a hundred years ago?) and so was Heather. However, once you put that aside (especially younger readers), you can realize that it is a story about 2 people who were so in love, but,like most relationships, are either stubborn or scared and do things that aren't exactly perfect examples of fitting behavior. I read this as a teenager years ago, and still re-read it from time to time. I find it rather nostalgic now, and a reminder of how innocent i was in my youth and how it made me feel then. Now it is like a welcome friend. The bottom line is, when you finally find real love, you WILL go through trying times, and you WILL have to overcome...but if you are in love...you CAN overcome. I loved the way Brandon put Heather on a pedestal and wasn't afraid for anyone to know how much he loved and admired her. yes, he was alot older than her, but really, age doesn't matter.
I would highly recommend this book to everyone. It does give both the man's thoughts and woman's thoughts so that you can see where they are coming from in their attitudes and actions.
I have also read the sequels and am delighted that Heather and Brandon are still alive and very much in love. I was really worried the story of Beau would pick up in his 30's and have one or both parents dead. Luckily, Ms. Woodiwiss didn't let us down.
I have gotten several family members and friends to read this book over the years, and everyone of them loved it.
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

BREATHTAKING! I read this book many years ago and it is as fresh in my mind now as it was then. You walk away feeling like you know the characters and don't want to leave them.("The Elusive Flame" reunites them with their many fans.) When I first read "The Flame.." it was a library book and I was so deeply moved that I didn't want to return it. I couldn't find a copy in the stores with the same cover, so I bought one with the plain cover and donated it to the library. I kept the original copy and have read it a few more times over the years. I loved the hero so much that I named my son Brandon after the book. Some readers have a problem with the book because Brandon forces himself on Heather, but if they took the time to read on, they would fall in love with him too. He is gentle and protective with her when she is pregnant. This is fiction after all. I don't want the authors walking around on eggshells worrying that they may offend a touchy reader. This book is so wonderful that it is a shame for someone to pick one scene and blow it out of proportion! It will put a smile in your heart and leave you with the feeling that it would be wonderful to be loved in the way that they eventually come to love each other. Fall in love with The Flame and the Flower!!!

This was my first experience with a true "bodice ripper" and it will be my last. In the first chapter the heroine kills a man defending herself from attempted rape, runs for her life and ends up with the "hero" who then rapes her himself, repeatedly. And I don't mean a case of "your lips say no but your eyes say yes", I mean lips, eyes, fists and feet all say no. I didn't make it to chapter two. I skimmed a few pages here and there through the rest of the book. I actually found it very disturbing. Millions of copies of this book have been sold? Why?? There was a time when women actually found reading about rape-based relationships appealing?

I accidently came across this author after trying for so long to "get into" other books besides Danielle Steel's. I would start and then put them down -- nothing interested me. I was always curious about the romance authors and couldn't understand why everyone was so crazy about them and bookstores are packed with their books -- then I picked up this one! Well, I never had such a good time reading a book -- the characters are terrific, especially Heather and Brandon. She is strong, but yet loving and gentle. He is absolutely gorgeous. I love the way men were so protective in those days! He sounds like the perfect husband, doesn't he, ladies? I hope you all out there enjoy all her books; I do too, since I recently bought all of them!

It's not surprising that some sick mind invented this story, but it is amazing how many women have obviously bought into this sickness and established it as some sort of icon to love and romance. In a country where some woman is the victim of violence every 30 seconds or so, and where information about rape and what it does to its victims is widely available, how it's "prettied up" into romance is a diachodomy worthy of a full-blown study of deviant sexuality. Some of the reviewers excuse this as typical for the age it represents, but I beg to differ. A rapist was not admired, even in those benighted times. They were seldom brought to justice (unless they were poor or black), but they were no more admirable then than they are now. I obviously, and mistakenly thought that women in this age know that rape is not about sex; it's about control and violence. The basic psychology of a rapist is no different then than it is now, and the psychology of the victim is no different either. The reviewer who claims we dissenters "don't get it" obviously has never been raped, and the reviewer who sees something wrong with women wanting some kind of control over their own bodies and their destiny and views that sort of a woman as a "b-----h" is a male with so little confidence, he's threatened by any female who isn't a whipped dog and whose intelligence is 10 points higher than an ameba. Yes, indeed, this book and its myriad of defenders would make a great masters thesis.

First of all, let me say that I love historical romance novels, and I don't stereotype them as bountiful-bosom, bare-chested heaving bodice rippers. However, this unfortunate novel lives up to this stereotype--at least the sections I managed to plough through.

The first problem is the purple prose. I'm no grammarian, but the constant abuse of the comma and the liberal use of adjectives started to irritate me about 10 pages in. However, the story was still passable, so I forged on. Then I discovered that the villains are so ugly, they are practically deformed--a cliche I could have done without. I mean, an obese, abusive aunt I can buy, but please, an overweight, lecherous, DROOLING uncle (brother to the aunt)? And the uncle's shop assistant (another villain) is actually hunchbacked, filthy and has a facial deformity. Puh-leeze!

The bit that takes the cake, however, is the fact that the hero has raped the heroine twice--and this is barely fifty pages into the book. What disturbs me the most, however, is the hero's apparent lack of feeling over this act of brutality. The first time I could almost understand, given the fact that he thought the heroine was a prostitute and that her struggles were love-play. But the second time around, he KNOWS she was a virgin and terrified of him, and he does it anyway! Later, when the heroine explains her awful situation, the hero makes light of it and offers to set the poor girl up as his mistress.

At this point, I couldn't read any longer. I had lost all respect for the hero--in fact, I hated him. I mean, I know about the sexual double standards of the time period the book is set in, but really, not even an apology? I think forcing yourself twice in a row on a 17-year old girl merits at least that... But I can even understand not apologizing for reasons of masculine pride or sheer pigheadedness or whatever. It's the lack of internal remorse that finally forced me to chuck this book aside. Fine, the hero is a tall, dark piece of hunka-hunka burnin' love, but the implication that it's OK for him to do what he did because he's good looking and not an overweight, ugly lech disturbs me even more.

Thank God I only borrowed this book from the library. I'm also really glad that rape scenarios have largely disappeared from modern romances. However, it frightens me that this book is held up as a classic of modern romance writing and a must-read for all romance lovers. I think it's books like The Flame and The Flower that create and perpetuate the unfair stereotype of romance novels as mindless bodice rippers that demean women.