Customer Reviews

Genesis Archive #2 1976-1992

5 star:		(17)
4 star:		(21)
3 star:		(14)
2 star:		(4)
1 star:		(2)

 

 

If you're a diehard quintessential Genesis fan like me, then this second Genesis box set covering the Phil Collins era is a must-have. "Archive Vol.2" gives you the lion's share of Genesis B-sides, rare songs by the band that I, personally, had been collecting over the years on 45" vinyl. To hear them at last in their full stereophonic CD glory is simply awesome. Also included are some fabulous live cuts, and a fine 65-page booklet with great photos of the band.Many Genesis favorites of mine abound: "Feeding The Fire," "Inside And Out," "Naminanu," "It's Yourself"....GREAT stuff. And the live material included here? Simply breathtaking. The band's live versions of "Ripples" & "Entangled" are so beautiful they bring a tear to my eye, while the live renditions of "The Lady Lies" & "Duke's Travels" feature the band at their most rockin' best. However....as much as I'd love to give "Genesis Archives Vol. 2" a perfect score, I can't. The reason? It's an *incomplete* box set. It's an excellent 3-CD set, but think of how outstanding this Genesis box could've been if had only been a 4-CD set. That way, the band could've put *everything* on it. There's absolutely no excuse for leaving off "Me And Virgil," one of the band's very best songs. Also missing from the box set: "Match Of The Day," a live version of "Eleventh Earl Of Mar" that Tony Banks has always spoken very fondly of, the uncut, full-length studio versions of "Mama" & "It's Gonna Get Better" that were released together as a 12" single (though there is a live version of the latter song included here), and lastly, all eight B-sides from the "Calling All Stations" album with singer Ray Wilson, as well as live material from this period. All ignored.Still, there's no denying the wealth of material that "Genesis Archives Vol.2" DOES have, so it's definitely worth getting. Just keep in mind that this Genesis box set isn't the *complete* picture of the band's rare recordings. Oh well. With all due affection to the Peter Gabriel years, if you love the band's Phil Collins-era music as well (like I do), then definitely pick up "Archive Vol.2".

Let's face it. If you are a Genesis fan, you have to buy this set, even if just for re-mastered CD versions of b-sides and live cuts that you already own in some form or another anyway, and for the liner notes, and, well, just to be a `completist.' Hell, I spent $15 on the Greatest Hits CD last year just to own Carpet Crawlers '99 - I've never even listened to a single song on the rest of the album - who need's to? We've all heard them a zillion times on the radio already. But let me join the rank with my criticisms of this set (although several of them have already been voiced by others so far).

The omissions of Match of the Day, Me and Virgil, and the long versions of Mama and It's Gonna Get Better are very frustrating, especially when considering that the reason the first two were left out was because the band `didn't like them anymore' (even though they must have liked them enough at one point to release them on EPs). With that reasoning, I'm surprised the first box set had anything on it at all, given that Phil no longer seems to like any Genesis song that was recorded before 1980. I guess the reasons they didn't include the last two is because the set already has a `work in progress' version of Mama and a live version of It's Gonna Get Better, and so it may have been seen as redundant to include two versions of each song. Same reasoning would go for the inclusion of a live version of Inside and Out. But other omissions of live favorites are IMO inexcusable.

I can understand songs that were only rarely performed live (like Wot Gorilla, Down and Out, Undertow, Ballad of Big, Like It or Not) may not a have a decent recording of them available anywhere so that they could have been included on this set. But there are just so many live pieces that I`ve heard excellent recordings of, and that were even performed by the band on multiple tours, and yet failed to make this set. Seems to me that the `Steve' years were blown off the most (what a shock) - Eleventh Earl of Mar, All in a Mouse's Night, Unquiet Slumbers for the Sleepers, In that Quiet Earth, but other surprising omissions are Say It's Alright Joe, Guide Vocal (although it is reprised in Duke's Travels, it's still never been included on any official live album), Keep It Dark, and Who Dunnit? Not that I ever really need to hear Who Dunnit again in my life, but I'm still surprised they left it off of this set.

And, of course, the 12-inch re-mixes can take a running jump. Maybe the band was simply too afraid to release a set that didn't have at least a few smash hits on it, in some form or another? But most likely, they were only included as space-fillers, filling space that could have otherwise been used so much better...

I know, Shameless of me to use a Phil Collins solo song as a title of my review, but "missed opportunity" is the term this box is best catagorized by. I'm a pretty big Genesis fan, and while it would have been virtually impossible to surpass the near perfect Archives Vol 1, something along the same lines in terms of thoroughness was expected with this one. Likewise, as exciting as it is to finally have some of these tracks in all their remastered glory, it is equally disappointing to know that there are countless more previously *officially* released tracks still floating around out there.

What is here that's good? Well, even in their pop heyday, Genesis was a pretty experimental band in a lot of ways. Their b-sides and leftovers are NOT generally better songs than the ones that made the cut, but a lot of them are quite good. Notably: "You Might Recall" "Inside and Out" "Evidence of Autumn" and "Open Door." Also, what live cuts are here, were not played live often and hardly any of them have been previously released on live albums in the past. They're great to have. Some have also bemoaned the inclusion of the handful of 12" remixes included. I sympathize with these folks because they, like me, know what's been left off in their place. Still, I like having the remixes. They're a big part of what 80's radio rock was all about and some of them are pretty fun.

That brings me back to my original point. It is unforgivable that Genesis would release an entire rarities box and not include key parts of the EPs "Spot the Pigeon" ("Match of the Day") and "3X3" ("Me and Virgil"). I repeat: Unforgivable. It's amazing that given all the work they did on the Lamb portions of Vol 1, that the band didn't see fit to include the original "Duke Suite" as played live on the first part of their 1980 tour. For those of you who don't know what this is, it's a medley made up of the songs from the original "Duke" concept [Behind the Line/Dutchess/Guide Vocal/Turn It On Again/Duke's Travels/Duke's End] that were broken up on the album at the last minute. I also agree with other reviewers who have pointed out how little of Steve Hackett's work is represented here. There are a number of other glaring omissions but these are as good examples as you should need to understand my point of view.

What was needed was a 4th disc to match the 1st Archive set. The band may not have been as inspired from 76-92 as they were from 67-75, but in nearly twice the amount of time they created enough material to justify this set being at least as long. B-sides, outtakes, demos, live cuts and yes, even remixes. We should be arguing about what the best stuff on the set is, not which favorites were left behind and what should've been cut to make room. It ALL should have been here. Under the circumstances, it's hard believe that the band were involved in this project at all, let alone completely in charge of it. I love what I got, but I'm afraid we'll never get the chance to get the rest. Who knows though, maybe they'll make another box. It's not like they'll be working on a new album... um... EVER.

In contradiction to Archives 1, A2 is not only for the most dedicated fans. The live-recordings are generally very good, andmost of the previously unreleased songs are wearth listening to.

DISC 1. The first CD contains primarely unreleased tracks, taken from different sessions. "On The Shoreline" (We Can't Dance-session) is an excellent ballad, great lyrics, that at the same time contains some great guitar-lines. This one was deffinitely worth a place on the album, it is as great as many of the other included tracks. The other WCD-track "Heart On Fire" is good, but deffinitely wasn't good enough for the album - it's a light, happy, and somewhat funky tune. The next three tracks - "You Might Recall" (Abacab), "Paperlate" (A) and "Evidence Of Autumn" (Duke) are all excellent - YMR and P are uptempo, happy popsongs, better than several of the included Abacab-songs, I think. EOA is a very beautiful ballad, indead worth inclusion on Duke. "Do The Neurotic" (Invisible Touch) is a musical, uptempo piece, a little like Duke travels, but not so good. "I'd Rather Be You" (IT) is another light-funky popsong, wich is O.K. without being really great. "Naminanu" (A) is another instrumental peace; somewhat boring and ought perhaps not have been included. On the other hand, the epic "Inside And Out" (Wind And Wuthering) is extremely beautiful and could easily have lived up to the high standard of WAW. The rough "Feeding The Fire" (IT) would also have done much better on the album than some of the chosen tracks. Good lyrics, cool chorus ('you're feeding the fire, over which you'll be roosted'). The 12" mix of I Can't Dance isn't bad, but it's really not my favorite music-style - I would have prefered it left out for some more live tracks (se after CD2) or B-sides (see below). Finally, the instrumental "Submarine" (A) is O.K., but not more that that. It is funny though, how the sound gives some impression of being under water. Left out is for some reason "Me And Virgil", which is a great, great mistake, since it was one the best Abacab tracks.

DISC 2. The livetracks arer generaly good, and there's no point in writing much about them, since they're on other albums. "Illegal Alien", "It's Gonna Get Better", "The Brazilian" and "Duke's Travels" are great; the rest is good or very good with the exception of "Dreaming While You Sleap", that has an anoying Xylophon-line. Live-recordings missing are for instance "All In A Mouse's Night" and "11th Earl Of Mar" (and others), which is very disappointing.

DISC 3. The 12" mixes ranges from good ("Inv. Touch") to boring ("Tonight..."); the latter would perhaps have been more interesting in a full-length live-recording. The three live recordings are nice; "No Reply At All" is very good, "Man On The Corner" is fantastic (unfortunately it fades out of the musical ending) while Phil sings very strange on "The Lady Lies" (this is perhaps not the greatest live-recording that excists of that track). "Open Door" (D) and the epic "Vancouver" (WAW) are both super, "The Day The Light Wend Out" (...And Then There Were Three...) is strange, but not bad (like "Down and Out" it has some very strange rhythms); while "pigeons" (WAW)(another light-funky pop-song) and "It's Yourself" (A Trick Of The Tail) aren't that good, the later one being interesting, though, because of the inclusion of some of "Los Endos". Finally, the "Works In Process on Mama" are interesting a couple og times, but that's it, making it perhaps not the best choice for the boxset.

The above noted are my thoughts and comments; I want to state again that Archives 2 is actually surprisingly good (compared to A1), and not only for the die-hards, I think.

-Kasper.

First of all ... I am a hard core Genesis fan and have been for the past 28 years, so needless to say, I like them. The first box set was great for me, it brought me back to more than a few concerts that I had seen and experiences I have had. This set is a harder pill to swallow. I understand calling it the "Collins" years focused set - but there should be a much larger representation of the Trick of the Tail to Duke years. The biggest sin in my mind is how Steve Hackett disappears in this set (one song???). I realize that Tony Banks and Hackett are not the biggest pals, but there is a wealth of music(live and the like) that would be really nice to hear in this set. There are things that I really like(last seven songs on disc 2 are the highlights of the set in my mind) - but to omit some musicianship over ego is a shame at best. Anyway - the hardcore Genesis fan should pick the set up - if you like the Banks/Rutherford/Collins version of the band, then this is the set for you!

I really like this boxed set; my wife got it for me for my birthday and it is really amazing. However, as stated countless times by other reviewers across the world, WHY DID THEY LEAVE OUT SO MUCH STUFF AND REPLACE IT WITH SOME CRAZY JUNK LIKE THE REMIXES?!? Is there honestly anyone out there who was thinking to themselves, "Oh please, please put some Invisible Touch remixes on there!" Come on.

Regardless, the set is still pretty good. The second disc of live material is great. To be honest, the only stuff they should have left off was the (4) remix songs -- outdated, unnecessary. Everything else is great. But they could have made it so much more complete a boxed set if they had included songs such as the fabulous "Me & Virgil" and "Match of The Day". And unless you come across the old US version of the "Three Sides Live" cd in a used record store (or get the vinyl or cassette), then you're NEVER going to get to hear "Me & Virgil"! I know I keep harping on it, but it's such a great song that I can't understand why they left it off.

Genesis should release a single (or double) disc entitled, "Whoops: The Stuff We Left Off Archive #2". Well, maybe not that title. They should though; there's no shame in admitting a mistake was made. And they shouldn't be worried about sales; a lot of people would purchase it. Well, the fans anyway.

Where the first "Genesis Archive" boxed set focused on the Peter Gabriel years, this one covers 1976-1992, when Phil Collins moved out from behind his drum kit to be the frontman, and the band had its greatest commercial success. But this collection of outtakes, live cuts, and miscellany just isn't the revelation the first "Archive" was. Most of the outtakes have previously been available, and the song selection of the live songs is limited. Long-time Genesis fanatics will not be able to resist this boxed set, but there's not much here for others.

Some of the best "outtakes", such as "Paperlate" and "You Might Recall," were long available on the American version of "Three Sides Live" and are certainly not rarities. Of the seven songs I hadn't heard before, the best are the three-minute scifi epic "The Day the Light Went Out", the gossamer lost-love ballad "It's Yourself" (the instrumental break became the intro to "Los Endos"), and the sprawling instrumental "Do the Neurotic". Other pleasant B-sides include the rocking "Feeding the Fire" and "Naminamu". "Pigeons", a tribute to the inhabitants of Trafalgar Square, and "Inside and Out", which combines a ballad with a classic Genesis instrumental, are here from the "Wind and Wuthering"-era EP "Spot the Pigeon". For some reason, "Me and Virgil" from "Three Sides Live" and "Match of the Day" from "Spot the Pigeon" have been disowned by the band, while drek like "Submarine" (a simple "we-can-do-this-in-our-sleep" riff that starts quiet and gets louder) and a 10-minute early attempt at "Mama" are included (if you listen to the latter more than once, you have serious time-management problems).

The live songs don't duplicate any songs previously released on Genesis live albums, and that doesn't leave enough good songs to put together a great live set. Diehards will be ecstatic to have live versions of "Ripples" and "Duke's Travels." But perhaps in an effort to convince passersby that this box contains the "greatest hits", you get mild versions of mild ballads "Your Own Special Way" and "Man on the Corner" instead of cuts like "Eleventh Earl of Mar" or "In That Quiet Earth." The only live song with Steve Hackett is "Entangled."

There are also four 12" versions of songs like "I Can't Dance" and "Invisible Touch", which contribute little except the impression that this is a "hits" package, and the "work in progress" version of "Mama."

ALL the tracks Genesis left off their LP's? Not quite. Missing-in-action are "Match of the Day", "Me & Virgil" and the original 12" of "It's Gonna Get Better" with the additional verse not on the album. But for these curious omissions, I would have given this set 5 stars.

Fans of the Collins era(mostly the 80's Collins era) will love this set. It has songs like ON THE SHORELINE, which is one of the best Genesis songs ever and surprisingly wasn't on 1991's We Can't Dance. HEARTS ON FIRE is another b-side from that album that is also good. Why didn't they have all the songs from Spot the Pigeon like the lovely BEGGER ON A BEACH and other songs like ME AND VIRGIL and MATCH OF THE DAY?

Disc 1 is a collection of b-sides from the 80's era of Genesis like some unreleased songs from the Abacab session like PAPERLATE, the lovely YOU MIGHT RECALL, the somewhat jazzy NAMINANU, and the dramatic SUB-MARINE. Also on here is the wonderful instrumental from Invisible Touch, DO THE NEAUROTIC, not to mention the hip I'D RATHER BE YOU and the edgy FEEDING THE FIRE. EVIDENCE OF AUTUMN is a b-side from Duke written by Tony Banks. INSIDE AND OUT, which is from 1977's spot the pigeon, is my personal favorites and is one of the better songs from the Collins era.

Disc 2 is a collection of live stuff like ILLEGAL ALIEN, ENTANGLED, RIPPLES, ENTANGLED, BURNING ROPE, DEEP IN THE MOTHERLODE, and DREAMING WHILE YOU SLEEP.

Disc 3 is a mixture of 12-inch singles, live stuff, and b-sides. Included in the b-sides are the funny PIGEONS, the melodic OPEN DOOR, the dazzling DAY THE LIGHTS WENT OUT, the lovely VANCOUVER, and the majestic IT'S YOURSELF which has exerpts featured in LOS ENDOS, like that oboe sound.

All in all, this set is only for die-hard fans and if your turning to this as a greatest hits set, look otherwise.

Will try not to say too much that's been said already, but... When Tony, Mike & Phil were assembling this set, it's clear they were pleasing themselves and not thinking in terms of what fans would want. Thus they put the songs in an illogical order that *they* thought sounded good; they left off things the fans would want but *they* didn't like; and so on.

I personally have little or no use for the 12" remixes (except the "I Can't Dance" one), the work-in-progress version of "Mama", or even many of the live tracks. To me, this set is mainly worthwhile for the non-album studio tracks (including the songs from the U.S. THREE SIDES LIVE, the CD release of which is out of print, hard to find & didn't sound very good anyway). I listen to these easily as often as the albums they were left off of! So it annoys me (just as it does other fans) that certain things were omitted -- Match Of The Day, Me & Virgil, the unedited Mama & It's Gonna Get Better. But at least all of those can be found in CD form, although it takes some looking (and M&V sounds like CRAP). What *really* bothers me -- and which I haven't seen mentioned here thus far -- is that two of the non-LP songs have been tampered with. "Submarine" is missing its original ending (due to master damage) so part of it is repeated and faded. "It's Yourself" is faded early, entirely unnecessarily -- *they* just liked it better that way; this is a crime because the song is otherwise unavailable on CD and even the original single is hard to find.

So... this is essential for the fan, but it doesn't give all it could have.