Customer Reviews

Great Dialogues of Plato (Mentor)

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I'm new to Plato. That should be said first. With that said, these are the things I have read: The Republic, Meno, Crito, Euthyphros, Symposium, Phaedo, Phaedrus and The Apology. With THAT said, you can appreciate, maybe, what I wanted to say about this book:

Not all of those translations were in this book. Phaedrus was one good example of what was missing, and when I read that, I had read it in another book that I own, with the translator being Benjamin Jowett. I also read Jowetts translation of the Republic. After reading that translation, I came to this book, translated by Rouse.

Hands down, Rouse takes the cake. I immediately noticed a difference in how easily the material is understood. Within the first ten pages of a reread of The Republic (and Symoposium and Apology), I could understand what was being presented far better than I could in the other translation. I had thought before that the material was difficult to understand, and in books like Phaedrus, it can seem so. What I discovered though, is that the material is only as difficult as the translators skill, or lack thereof, makes it. I know that some people have complained about how the material is 'anglicized' for the public, but I would think that this would be a good thing. Plato is from a different time and place than the mass of people living today (with only an elite few really having the full scope to understand everything needed to slog through Jowetts translation- I wasn't really one of them) and should be changed slightly to help accomodate those with the desire to understand him and the contributions he made.

This book does that wonderfully. The annotations do a wonderful job of helping to explain what might seem vague. The quotation marks help to place dialogue in the (english) readers mind. The arrangement of the books is done in an order that makes sense, allowing a person to logically progress through the series of Platos' thought process. The material itself is something that every human being with a desire to learn should experience, and Rouse did a wonderful job of exacerbating that to the public at large.

Bottom line: if you want to read Plato and don't have the time to earn a degree in ancient Hellenistic culture first, then pick up this translation. Also ignore the detractors that might think this way of seeing the ancient Greek as too 'tainted', they're just jealous because Plato is now accessible to everyone in this book.

For those who do not know, Plato was Socrates' preeminent student. The dialogues are treatises on various interesting questions, such as what is love, virtue, etc.... The style of the texts are based on the Socratic method of asking questions and use of analogy to test an hypothesis. This gives the texts the style of mysteries as you follow the twists and turns of the arguments to get to the conclusion. Socrates is often the protagonist guiding the reader so it also gives the texts a sense of biography.

This collection contains probably the best works, and Rouse's translation is clear and easy to read. Enjoyable, entertaining, mind-opening.

Love him or hate him (and there are plenty who feel both ways), Plato is essential reading for anyone interested in Western thought. So much so that A. N. Whitehead made the famous, if controversial, comment that "all of philosophy is but a series of footnotes to Plato." Even if that's a bit over the top, Plato is still simply one of those "must reads," for philosophy in particular, and for the humanities in general. Plato raised questions about virtue, justice, love, government, god, society, epistemology and metaphysics that we still wrestle with today, and his answers, for better or worse, have greatly impacted our culture and history.

If you're new to Plato, this edition is a good start. I've had my copy of the Great Dialogues of Plato-now dog-eared, scribbled in, and Scotch-taped together-since I first wrestled with the Apology and the Republic in my high school humanities class. These are hardly Plato's only dialogues, but they are arguably the most important, especially for general students. Rouse's translations are highly readable. He captures the flavor of what Plato wanted to say and how he wanted to say it, without sounding antiquated or artificially modern.

It's worth noting that this edition does not present the dialogues in the order in which Plato probably wrote them, but in the order which seems to represent the unfolding of the particular events described. Thus, the Apology, Crito and Phaedo-describing the trial and death of Socrates-come together at the end, even though the Apology was one of the first dialogues written by Plato, and the Phaedo was among his middle dialogues. This is important because earlier dialogues are probably more representative of Plato's teacher, Socrates, while later dialogues reflect increasingly Platonic thinking, even though Plato continued to use "Socrates" as a character. The Socratic ethics of the Apology and Crito, for instance, seem sharply at odds with the ethics of the Republic, probably Plato's most complete and representative work.

So you might want to read the dialogues in the following order: Apology, Crito, and Ion, for roughly Socratic thought; Meno and Phaedo, for transitional dialogues; and Symposium and Republic for solidly Platonic thinking. Of course, there is no universal agreement on the order of Plato's dialogues, nor as to which represents whose views most faithfully.

As for drawbacks to this edition, there are no introductions to the individual dialogues, Rouse's general "Preface" is short and weak, and the standardized reference numbers to the original Greek pages are only summarized at the top of odd pages, instead of given as line-by-line annotations, which makes cross-referencing a chore. (Because of the lack of introductions, you should read at least an article or two on Socrates and Plato from any general history of philosophy.) Nonetheless, I like Rouse's translations, and the edition is worthy of five stars despite its shortcomings. I still refer to my banged up copy, which I'll keep on my bookshelf as long as the pages hold together.

There is no point in trying to detract from the works of Plato themselves; anyone who is buying a collection of his dialogues is already convinced of his preeminence in Western philosophy.

This translation, however, is honestly lousy, and it surprises me how well it seems to have been received. Though I have some training in philosophy (an undergraduate degree) I'm certainly not an ancient philosophy expert, and I found no difficulty in reading Jowett, and I imagine the average reader approaching Plato would not either. Rouse's modus operandus appears to be to make Plato "accessible"--to a fault, I think. Whatever gains are made in clarity are more than countered by the awkwardness of the text and frequent anachronisms. To illustrate, here are two quotes from the first dialogue included, Ion:

"Socrates: I'm glad to hear it, Ion, for it is clear you won't mind giving me a show.

Ion: I will most certainly. You'll find it a treat to hear, Socrates, how finely I have decked out Homer! I believe I've earned a golden crown from the Homer Association."

What Rouse awkwardly translates as "Homer Association"--which sounds like a group of middle-aged men who get together every Wednesday to bowl and drink, or something--is preserved in Jowett's text as Homeridae, a group of ancient Greek Homeric scholars. How this could be confusing, especially with a simple footnote, is beyond me.

Second:

"Ion: When someone speaks about any other poet, I can't attend. I can't put in one single remark to the point, I'm just in a doze--but only mention Homer and I'm wide awake in a jiffy . . ."

The term "jiffy" is so anachronistic and silly that it really distracts the reader from the flow of the text. I cannot possibly understand why Rouse thought this was a good word to use here.

These are just some examples. All translations of Plato that I've encountered have some anachronism--Socrates quotes Latin phrases in Jowett, for example--but there is and should be a limit, and I think it's obvious that Rouse exceeds that limit.

I did not know it was such a good read as I have never touched any classical literature until someone recommended that I read Plato to start with. The translation is excellent. The plot is exciting. It certainly adds a new dimension to thinking about life subject matters.

The translation and collection is admirable, but the quality of this Signet paperback I received is very cheap looking. For some reason it just seems crammed and most pages seem like they are typed in bold and others normal. Sometimes there will be a diagonal bolding of a page (like a line of bold going through from top left to bottom right) to the point where an "a" will have the entire bottom filled in. Not sure if I got a bad copy, but this isn't something I've ever noticed in a book before. This also makes some of the footnotes hard to read because they are even smaller so a "w" is all filled in and looks like an upside down triangle with the tip cut off.

Where do I begin? These dialogues of Plato encompass the early beginings of philosophy from arguements of love to arguements of justice and education. Even if you are not a true philosophy at heart, the shear talent of Socrates twisting his opponents gives enough warrant to read. I will admit, the book is not an easy task, so take it slow, and digest the material. And you will walk away from the book with an increased knowledge of wisdom.

I was looking for Jowett's translation of 'The Republic'. I couldn't find it, so I bought this one.

'The Republic' is, quite simply, the greatest book produced by the Western civilisation. It has everything in it: metaphysics, ethics, epistemology, logic, aesthetics and politics. Someone said that Western philosophy began with Plato and ended with Aristotle. He was wrong; it began and ended with Plato.

The book is best known for its noble idea that philosophers should be kings. The authoritarian system that Plato proposes to ensure this may not be desirable or feasible (Democracy is here to stay). But the course of study and training that he prescribes for the philosopher-king can certainly be taken to heart by those who want to serve their countries.

There are strong parallels with the Bhagavad Gita. Plato's vision of a three-class society (philosophers, warriors, masses) mirrors the original Aryan society (Brahmanas, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas). His division of the primary tendencies corresponds with the modes of Sattva, Rajas and Tamas. Above all, his definition of justice (each doing his own thing) is identical with the concept of Swadharma.

The translation is adequate. Plato is supposed to be the greatest Greek prose writer, and one of the greatest in the world. That doesn't exactly show in Rouse's version. But Jowett may be too outdated for today's readers.

A useful summary is provided for each book of 'The Republic'.

Beautiful translation, the timeless texts of Plato -
but delivered in tiny print without many notes. Great texts, lousy edition.

Needed this for my philosophy class, and this book is very practical to have. Great condition, fabulous price. Shipped in amazingly fast time.