Customer Reviews

Greenes' Guides to Educational Planning: The Hidden Ivies: Thirty Colleges of Excellence

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The Greenes' "Hidden Ivies" is the best overall guide to the best colleges that are not covered in their other book covering the Ivy League universities. The contents are up to date, detailed, cover all aspects of these schools, and are free of the kneejerk conservative agenda that underlie some of the other detailed college guides, e.g. "The Best 100 Colleges". The approach in this book is somewhat similar to Pope's "40 Colleges That Change Lives", although the latter is geared more to B students, while this book is geared to A students (to oversimplify!)

What comes across clearly in the Greenes' approach is that these schools are the equal of the Ivy League schools in every respect, with perhaps a bit less stress and pressure. In fact, a number of these schools (e.g. Amherst, Middlebury, and Pomona) are actually more selective than at least some of the Ivies. Additionally this book, like Pope's, gets the point across that there are advantages to the more personal learning approach of the liberal arts colleges versus the larger class environments of the Ivy League universities. Students at the top of their class really owe it to themselves to consider these schools in addition to the Ivies. After all, the fact that eight excellent universities decided to formally band together in the 1950s to form an athletic league hardly makes those eight universities "the best" per se. Are Penn and Cornell really "better" than Amherst or Middlebury? Some may think so, but even then it's not because they're in the "Ivy League" (By that measure Stanford, Chicago, and Johns Hopkins wouldn't be top tier either - an assertion that would be ridiculous). In any case, this book is essential reading for any high school achiever interested in going to a top school, i.e. any one of the top 30-40 schools!

The Greenes have written numerous college guides. I have read a couple of them. And, based on my firsthand experience they are excellent. They typically address a specific topic. Thus, they avoid or go beyond the bland generalities conveyed by other not so good college guides.

In this book, the Greenes focus on what they call the Hidden Ivies, or 30 schools that they consider meet the educational standards of the actual Ivies. These are mainly top-notch small liberal arts colleges often located on the East Coast. Within this list of 30 schools there are not any surprises. These are very well established renowned institutions, which are often nearly as selective as the Ivy League themselves. In other words, the Hidden Ivies are not so hidden. Indeed, try getting in Amherst, Claremont McKenna, Pomona, or Middlebury. If you can, one could argue you may as well apply to Yale, Princeton, and Harvard.

The Greenes make a good case that the Hidden Ivies offer a superior education that even the actual Ivies can't match. This superior education is a liberal arts curriculum offered on small residential campuses where the institution is often dedicated solely to undergraduate students. This is in contrast to the more prestigious Ivies where a significant amount of resources is diverted towards graduate programs and research. The Greenes further advance their case by sharing the superior record that some of the smaller Hidden Ivies have in the % of their graduates they send on to complete PhDs.

This book is filled with very useful information, including: a) main tips for parents with a child going through the admission process at a Hidden Ivy, b) tips for students, c) tips on what it takes to get in, and d) indication for parents that the actual college choice was a success.

Also, the 30 school profiles are very extensive. Each school is described in detail over 6 pages. It is the result of an extensive survey of the faculty, the administration, and the students. You get many direct quotes from students on how they like (or not) various aspects of their respective schools. By reading these school profiles you will get an excellent idea if a specific school is the right fit for you (or your child). And, for the Greenes, the proper school fit between student and college is far more important than the actual name recognition of the college. In other words, a happy and successful student at Emory will have a far better start in his academic and professional life than his counterpart who may feel isolated and over pressured at Princeton. Thus, the proper match is the key.

The authors style is very lively and makes this book easy to read. If you are considering one of these schools, this book is a must read.

People know of the Ivy League schools because they're old and established, have produced numerous notable people, have some tremendous programs, and have received lots of PR. Often they're selected for potential to impart a "credential" or "reputation." But there are trade-offs. (I read about them in Greene's other eye-opening book on the Elite Colleges.)

I'm a parent and I wanted to start a list of potential colleges for my child that didn't have quite the hype, but offered strong academic programs, meaningful relationships with teachers, and perhaps not quite the stress and snobbery. This, and Loren Pope's books, are the best ones I've found to do that. Includes schools you might not have ever considered.

Balance these with something like the Fiske guide to give you a real sense of what it feels like to be at these colleges. Slim on West Coast schools, but maybe not too many fit the bill. Good for West Coast students, who often don't consider colleges outside of their state university and college system.

High Schools should have this and the Pope and Fiske books on the College Center shelves. Probably they don't, or the students wouldn't know it was worth it to look at. So, kick in the bucks and share among friends.

There is undoubtedly useful information in The Hidden Ivies. Most of it, however, is contained on the front cover. Other than naming the thirty colleges, "Of excellence," the book does little to differentiate between the schools. In fact, the descriptions of six schools that I am considering (all contained in Greene's book) sound practically identical! Overall, this guide is useful for listing thirty colleges named on its cover. If you're looking for more information than that, look somewhere else.

The book gives useful information about these colleges, but misleads students into thinking that if they don't gain admission to an Ivy, they should consider one of these schools. None of these schools are "hidden," as Greene claims. Grinnell, Oberlin, Pomona, Carleton...are all very prestigious and well known institutions, that only accept top students. Some of the schools Greene mentions are, indeed, more selective than their Ive League peers. Amherst, Williams, and Swarthmore are certainly tougher to get into than Cornell, and they are probably more selective than Penn as well. Despite his misleading title, Greene's underlying assertion remains feasible. It won't matter whether you choose a top liberal arts college or an Ivy League school when it comes to applying for job or to graduate schools.

All parents should read this book before their first child starts the college process. It is a great primer on 30 of the best schools in the nation that don't happen to be "Ivies."

Some parents feel they don't need this education, because they may have gone to elite colleges themselves decades ago, and they believe they already know the lay of the land. But the world has changed, folks. From 1970 to 2000, the U.S. population has grown by 78 million, with the percentage of the population attaining bachelor degrees more than doubling. The Ivy League schools haven't magically grown big enough to accomodate that kind of increase in students! There are plenty of brilliant, talented kids out there with much to offer, and they're not all going to be at Ivy League schools.

So if you were able to somehow attain Ivy undergraduate acceptance "back in the day," congratulations, but that doesn't necessarily mean your kid can do so today. (I sometimes wonder if I could get into my own Ivy Alma Mater today!) So you need to know about a few more college alternatives, beyond the Ivies, when your student asks you about them.

Like all Greenes Guides, this book is well-researched and offers wise, seasoned perspectives based on its authors' years of extensive consulting experience. It is a "must" for parents of college-bound students. But as other reviewers have pointed out, these "Hidden" Ivies aren't so hidden anymore. I look forward to the September, 2009 release of the second edition, which promises reviews on 50 schools. This can help parents educate themselves on even more "up and coming" hidden gems.

-Kris Hintz, www.positionu4college.com

I checked this book out at my local library with two other college admissions guides to refesh my memory of what it's like to go through the college application process as a part of my efforts to help my young academically gifted cousin who is beginning this process. I found this book to be thorough and easy to follow for a college bound high school student looking to broaden their options. I can relate to what it was like to be in the world of a pretentious high school senior without real world experience to tell me that the name on your degree doesn't necessarily equate to how much your occupation and earnings after college will fit society's ideal of "success".I can see how this guide book could serve to reassure the ambitions while calming the anxieties of high school seniors who feel that their fate is based upon whether or not they get into a "name" school, which usually includes an Ivy League institution.
My response to a couple of other readers' reviews is that I can see how questioning the validity of the prestige of Ivy league institutions would seem to be a viable option. Everyone knows that "rankings" are subjective, and that each college has attributes that are more suitable for some students than others, but that doesn't mean we have to bash those schools for their ability to maintain their success. One of the previous reviewers questioned whether or not Penn or Cornell is really better than Amherst and Middlebury, which is really an unjustified comparison when Amherst and Middlebury are two small liberal arts colleges and Penn and Cornell are not only Ivies, but very large research universities with a multitude of undergraduate and graduate programs (not to mention Cornell's reputation of being a pressure cooker driven intellectual buffet with over-achievers representing not one, but seven undergraduate colleges). Those of us who didn't necessarily gain admissions to an Ivy don't have to take the resentful route of bashing them to stroke our egos. Yes, there are other colleges with top notch academic programs, and let me reiterate that going to an Ivy won't necessarily make you more successful than a graduate of a state university , but let's keep the goal of looking into other schools with highly regarded programs in focus, not down playing another school's prestige as one's own defense mechanism. Ultimately, I would recommend this book to be read in addition to other college guides.When it comes to selecting the institution where you will be spending probably the four most mind expanding years of your life, you can never do too little research.

I did not find this book particularly useful. The college descriptions are more like advertorials written by the colleges themselves rathen than objective and independent analysis with pros and cons. Furthermore the book provides little help with putting together an application for each of these schools - something the author could have done given his claim to know these institutions so well.

I graduated from one of the schools described in this book, and I was horrified to see it listed on the cover. Throughout my time there, I was surrounded by people who couldn't care less about the name on their diploma, and couldn't care more about the quality of their education. Anyone who would be interested in a book titled "Hidden Ivies" does not have the sort of personality suited to my school - the name is nothing, the labels are nothing. The professors and fellow students are everything. These are excellent schools, but they should be considered in spite of what the Greenes title them, not because of it.

For those who want more than the Ivies ---- not only an Ivy-rated undergraduate education, but, virtue, leadership training, personal challenge, proving what you're made of, pride in giving something back to your family and America ---- the answer is West Point. EVERYONE has a good chance at the full scholarship. If this sounds like you, go for it.
Recommended reading: "West Point: Character Leadership Education...", Norman Thomas Remick.