Customer Reviews

History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey. Volume I: Empire of the Gazis: The rise and decline of the Ottoman Empire, 1280-1808 (v. 1)

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4 star:		(1)
3 star:		(0)
2 star:		(2)
1 star:		(1)

 

 

This work was not intended to bring to the forefront a great debate over the Armenian Question, Dr. Bouchard! The purpose of this work is to cover an extensive period of Ottoman history in a small amount of pages, and I think it is presented well. Merely rejecting the words of Dr. Shaw based upon such a narrow, controversial topic as the Armenian Question is not being true to the people who want solid reviews.

True the work is very detailed in its factual presentation, but it educates the reader on the many facets of Ottoman civilization. Too many authors of Ottoman history fail to get to the true meat of the matter, and Dr. Shaw does not dissapoint. I would recommend this to any student of Ottoman history as an overall guide to the events during the period it covers.

Thorough and accurate; a solidly impressive look at a historical area much neglected in the west.

Shaw's extensive volume covers much more than the Armenian experience in Ottoman days, yet those who are single-minded about this particular topic have nothing better to do than to try and discredit. Witness Reviewer "Dr. Mario-Jean Bouchard," and his seedy attempt to knock not only Prof. Shaw, but the work of others that don't conform to his zealous pro-Armenian views. "Many unsupported references"?? If anything, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey" has a multitude of well-referenced facts. Bringing up the highly unprofessional methodology of similarly genocide-obsessed pseudo-academicians as Robert Melson and others provides sad commentary on the unethical methods of fanatics. Armenian extremists actually bombed the Los Angeles home of Prof. Shaw in 1977, because they did not approve of the "Armenian" chapter of this book. Reviewers with an agenda provide a different form of terrorism when their mission is to attempt the destruction of a person's credibility... and there are times when the weapon of the pen can be mightier than the sword.

I always admired Prof Shaw's careful research regading the Turkish history. It is also interesting to note that in the section titled 'On Armenian Collaboration With Invading Russian Armies in 1914,' he does expose the well-known Armenian crime of genocide against the defenseless Muslims in 1914.

"In April 1915 Dashnaks from Russian Armenia organized a revolt in the city of Van, whose 33,789 Armenians comprised 42.3 percent of the population. Leaving Erivan on April 28, 1915, Armenian Army reached Van on May 14 and organized and carried out a general slaughter of the local Muslim population during the next two days."

This book shows that the Ottoman Empire lasted over 600 years because of their tolerance and idealism that promoted freedom of religion and speech that was unseen in the world during the time. It's important to note that propagandists who do not like the Ottoman Empire and the author's views on certain small subjects dealing with the Ottoman Empire will likely give negative ratings, but these are understandable, since few historians have covered the topic of the Ottoman Empire, since it is the most under-researched empire in history.

Very impressive research into an extremely important chapter of history that encompasses over 200 years in one of the most important empires of the world! Provides a wealth of statistics from many credible sources, and presents a very objective, scholarly account of events. ONe of the best books I've ever read--HIGHLY recommended!!!

Prof Shaw's excellent documentation of the Turkish history is, in fact, in line with the Russian view of the Turkish Holocaust. I also agree with the respectable scholars and Prof Shaw that the Armenian denial makes it worse. Besides, we are talking about the Turkish people that were directly impacted by the Armenian genocide of the Muslim people in Russian Armenia and Eastern Anatolia. Turks never stop writing about the genocide they have experienced in 1914. Referring to notes from the personal diary of Russian General L. Odishe Liyetze on the Turkish front, he wrote, "On the nights 11-12 March alone Armenian butchers bayoneted and axed to death Muslim people in areas surrounding Erzincan. These barbars threw their victims into pits, most likely dug according to their sinister plans to extinguish Muslims, in groups of 80. My adjutant counted and unearthed 200 such pits. This is an act against our world of civilization." On March 12, Lieut-colonel Griyaznof wrote (from an official Russian account of the Turkish Holocaust), "Roads leading to villages were littered with bayoneted torsos, dismembered joints and carved out organs of Muslim peasants...alas! mainly of women and children." "The killings were organized by the doctors and the employers, and the act of killing was committed solely by the Armenian Army. Large holes were dug and the defenceless Muslim people were slaughtered like animals next to the holes. Later, the murdered Muslims were thrown into the holes. The Armenian who stood near the hole would say when the hole was filled with the corpses: 'Seventy dead bodies, well, this hole can take ten more.' Thus ten more Muslims would be cut into pieces, thrown into the hole, and when the hole was full it would be covered over with soil. The Armenians responsible for the act of murdering would frequently fill a house with eighty Muslims, and cut their heads off one by one. Following the Erzincan massacre, the Armenians began to withdraw towards Erzurum... The Armenian renegades among those who withdrew to Erzurum from Erzincan raided the Moslem villages on the road, and destroyed the entire population, together with the villages."

Great work and keep up the good work.

Dr. Mario-Jean Bouchard;

If you are looking for fundamental errors, you need not go any further than the Armenian allegations, including those LEGISLATED by the French.

At the end of WW1, the Armenians reported a loss of 300 thousand due to the deportation, with another 300 thousand in difficulty in Syria. Decades later, after the Nuremberg Trials brought the Holocaust to plain view, Armenians began repackaging their story: The casualty figure became 1 million, 2 million, reaching 2.5 million at the height of its hype (thanks to Armenian terrorism, supported by France until French began to die. Remember the Oslo bombing?). I think France finally "settled" on 1.5 million -- I guess the French did the noble and mathematically-correct thing, averaging all of the numbers Armenians have been producing from thin air.

Serious scholars have every reason to study and challenge Prof. McCarthy's methods and conclusions - he himself invites everyone to do so and has laid bare his assumptions, methods, numbers, calculations and sources for the purpose in his books, in which he makes a strong case against the charge of genocide. However, those in support of the genocide charge have not produced anything of substance we can study and critique.

It is no coincidence that Armenians have been seeking purely political means to BUY verdicts (what they claim will "settle the matter"!) by enlisting politicians as mercenaries

A political approach resonates strongly with countries with a large number of Turkish skeletons in their closets and Turkish blood on their hands. For example, we know France provided more than just "moral assistance" to the Armenian "revolutionaries" starting years, if not decades, before the massive Armenian rebellion of 1914. It is no surprise that the French people are, shall we say, reluctant to take the path of science and due process. The Turkish body parts that are bound to be dug up from French and Armenian back yards would stir up very serious controversies, and, may cause serious embarrassment if not weaken the genocide claim. Also, it avoids having to explain why the French did nothing to take the Ottoman's to court in Malta when they had EVERY opportunity at the end of WW1 as the victors.

So, if you are French:

1. It is better to condemn McCarthy's work without providing alternatives.

2. It is also better to seek an up-or-down vote in parliament.

So, if you are a Turk:

Maybe France will accept a vote by the Turkish parliament about the Algerian Genocide?

...

The process, i.e. disciplined, transparent, competent, expert, etc. effort, that characterizes the Nuremberg Trials - DUE PROCES -- revealed the *history* of the Holocaust.

Armenians and their supporters like the French, have purposefully skirted, even resisted the obvious process one would have to follow to defend an allegation as serious as the crime of genocide. Yet, this is what the French continue to do.

In short, if you are French, Nazis get a fair trial in a court and are embraced by the French as neighbors; Turks get political lynching in a French parliament and are excommunicated, with no right of appeal.

And, yet, they still talk about "fundamental mathematical errors"!

The French case does not add up!

So much for YOUR integrity and mathematical correctness, monsieur.

The book moves through so many people so quickly that it is difficult to follow what is being talked about. The names are unfamiliar, the places are unfamiliar; and the maps often don't name the areas being mentioned. The font is extremely small and eye strain is also a problem. This type of material is what makes history unpalatable. I have discovered since leaving school that history is fascinating, but one needs to be able to learn about the times, the people and the places. Just dates and events, with people never being fleshed out is extremely boring. I was very disappointed in these books.

This, the second of a two-volume work, ought to have been a standard history of the Ottoman Empire; it falls far short of expectations, however, due to the very large number of simple factual errors it contains, as well as the authors' bias toward nationalist Turkish interpreations of the recent past. This imbalance consistently permeates the book, wherein the authors seem to see themselves as having to "defend" the Ottomans against their critics, and is most extreme in the treatment of the Armenian Genocide. (The vehemence seen in some of the reviews below evidences the strong and partisan passions that beset this issue; while the authors' language is more temperate than that of some of the reviewers, they are not much more objective.)

This book, long awaited by Ottomanists, proved to be rather an embarrassment to the field when it appeared. Readers should be aware that it is both unreliable and very partisan.

Poor quality work, with many unsupported references, of so-called Ottoman archives that will make, the Turkish ministry publications concerning the Armenians, as first handed references. In fact the work is even less credible then Kamurun Gürün(a Turkish diplomat) "juicy" publications. What can I add other then the work treatment of the Armenians was discredited and even destroyed by professionals such as Dr. Robert Melson, when he analyses the Shaws conclusions that are absolutely contrary to scientific methodology. Could that be explained by Ezel Kural, his Turkish wife implication concerning everything that imply the Armenian question ? I don't know. But the fact is that Shaw conclusions are so reticule draw that it contradict any independent researchers in that field, and even for peoples such as Dr. Daniel PANZAC that actually studied McCarthy calculations(that merited the analyses of Frédéric Paulin, who destroyed the "McCathyist" theses, that contain mathematical fundamental errors). Dr. Daniel PANZAC, is a very well known Ottoman population specialist, and seen as the one that has don the most extensive research about the subject.

What can I add ? Well if you are against intellectual integrity, and see history as only "mythological" event a kind of Flaurissonism, then read it. But as my part the Shaws enter in the McCarthyism(seeing as the Flaurisson of the Armenian genocide), science fictionism, of the kind, of the Myth of the World Jewish conspiration theories and their plan to destroy Germany, that has so inspired Monsieur Shaw.