Customer Reviews

Hold'em on the Come: Limit Hold'em Strategy for Drawing Hands

5 star:		(3)
4 star:		(0)
3 star:		(4)
2 star:		(0)
1 star:		(1)

 

 

This book deals ONLY with the play of drawing hands from the flop on,in limit hold'em.

Parts of the book I thought were quite good (though some parts were valuable only for beginning players), and other parts seemed rather unnecessary. Overall the author takes an odds view of draws. If the odds are there you must play. He certainly doesn't overlook other factors, but that's not the main focus.

The sections on counting outs was quite good, especially the theory of discounting some outs based on the situation. Several other sections gave some extremely valuable advice.

However, the author introduces some charts, that I just didn't find useful. They're supposed to get the reader to think about situations so that he may be prepared when it occurs in game. Personally, I found the action charts to muddy the waters.

So, is the book worthwhile? Is a book that deals solely with draws something you need? Maybe. (Hence my mixed reations.) There's plenty of valuable information in the book, but also a fair amount of filler...or material that only beginners would need. Most of the info CAN be gained from reading other books, but this has it all in one place.

I was a little shocked when I noticed 2 stars for this book. It has only been one review so far, I have a feeling the ratings will get better. Let me first start buy declaring that I have almost every book on poker. This book is a "must read", for any fixed limit holdem player. I am also going to assume that since you are online that you will be playing online holdem. This book applies even more to the loose tables online. This book is the most extensive material on drawing hands. It does not have any starting hand charts but plenty of charts on various drawing outs and pot odds etc.. A good portion of this stuff is not even in a TwoPlusTwo book. I shudder to think of all the new players who will start with Small Stakes Holdem and top it off with Hold'em on the come. The crazy online games are full of donkey's playing any two cards. When you play these maniacs, you have to draw to some big multi-handed pots. I have not encountered any other book that addresses this topic so extensively. I consider, like most poker players, that TwoPlusTwo books are the best in the poker industry. I will say that between the "How good is your" poker books and this gem of a book- D&B Publishing has to be on the list of any poker player's reading list.

If the reader is anything like me then they probably play a lot of no limit hold `em, and probably, at some point, have come to the realization that no limit ring games aren't going to last forever. This is particularly true if the reader happens to be a fellow American whose government recently declared war on our perfectly civilized habit of playing online poker. The long and the short of it is that we may well find ourselves in a brick and mortar casino playing whatever game is available with a reasonable buy in, which often, is a limit game (unless you're in Vegas where they have NL 100 and 200 live--by me it's NL 300 only). Therefore, brushing up on, or learning limit for the first time is advisable. With Hold' Em on the Come, Slotboom and Mason only do one thing, but they do it well which is to analyze and proscribe when draws should be played after the flop. The book issues lengthy discussion on this subject, but it is more diverse than you think as it includes low pairs, two pairs, and overcards along with the obvious mix of straights and flushes. From what I can gather, most of the text is really Dew Mason's with additional insight provided by Rolf "Ace" Slotboom. His sections are boxed off and titled "Ace Speaks." The great Ace's commentary enriches the work tremendously, and, personally, I'll buy anything he puts out because I loved his DVDs and still watch them. Overall, I found this offering invaluable.

this book was a very good read to familiarize yourself with counting outs.
the only thimg that was really surprising, was the fact that with all the explantions of outs and draws, i cant believe the author did not include any thourough discussion comparing your outs to the odds against making your hand. ie. u have 9 outs, therefore you ars 4 to 1 against making your hand, now compare that to size of pot, and you see to call a $10 bet you need the pot to contain at least $40. none of this was in the book.
if i hadnt known how to calculate my odds,(4 to 1) etc. i would have never understood how the author came to a conclusion that he needed 4 outs to stay in a hand.
really strange.

For less experienced players, this is a thorough exploration of drawing hands in limit hold'em. However, the play system he advocates is very intricate and unwieldy, in my view. To take into consideration all the factors that can weaken a draw, the author uses fractions of outs. Count 'em up, let's see, we've got 4 1/2 outs, but need 5 to draw, that's a fold.

I'm sure Slotboom is a math head who does this effortlessly, but for most of us, I think the return is not worth all the effort. Most decisions are clearcut -- you have 8 outs, that's always a call, even if it really is 7.5 outs. Certainly figuring by tenths of outs would give only an illusion of precision, and I really doubt that 1/2 outs provide better resolution. It is a rare hand that might be decided by 1/2 an out. In such close situations, you are almost always going to decide according to how the opponent has been playing, what your image is, what happened last hand, etc.

You will understand draws after this book. The system of discounting outs will help you understand the complexity that effects the quality of a draw, but I doubt many people retain the scoring system. Discounting outs is important, but can be simplified. If you've got a pair and an inside draw, that's six outs to improve, but since two of those cards (that make trips) could give him a full house, you only count one of them, for a total of five outs. Slotboom will figure 'there are only 3.5 clean outs to a straight, because you might tie, and the villain might make a runner-runner flush, so that discounts another half, plus the two halves discounted for a fullhouse, which adds up to 4.5 outs, but he's a bad player who will keep raising the river, so add a half, for a total of five, so call.' Or something like that.

Bill Haywood
HoldemTight

This book was written by Dew Mason, an unknown middle-limit poker player, and only reviewed and endorsed by the well-known and accomplished Rolf Slotbloom. The exception is the sprinkling of "Ace speaks" anecdotal essays which were added by Slotbloom himself.

The book is entirely about playing draws and contains sensible advice. However, I don't think there's much of an audience for this. Those willing to read an entire book devoted to a single aspect of the game have surely studied the core Hold'em books and spent hundreds of hours playing. For them, I don't see much here.

I'm always interested to hear how other people think about poker, but I didn't find much new insight. One exception is the interesting statistics on how likely you are to be facing flush draws depending on how many opponents remain and how deeply into the hand the action is. I agree with a previous reviewer that the "action charts" don't add enough to have spent so much time on them. It's basically just visual pot-counting. Mason does a credible job on accounting for "tainted" outs, though it was all stuff I'd already thought about in detail myself.

This book is not bad, but for me, it was not "game-changing" at all.

I found it difficult to understand and found myself reading the same paragraph over 3 times on many occasions. I had to stop reading it half way through because It seemed to become tedious to read. The advice about counting outs is ok, but often it assumes you are up against a top hand, hardly taking into account a bluff which is very common on online limit poker.
Also the mathematical difference you can make to your bankroll is of little significance unless your playing very high limit poker. Even if you perfected what the author is trying to teach, you probably wont have the time or energy to apply it to online poker.

if you are into poker like me.. invest in this book is worth it...
this is comming from a poker head that has over 15 books.....
If you think you know how to play yours draws....Raad this book... n you wil learn thing or two..... I did.! ! special when to foldem...lol
Good luck on the tables.

Nutty Rabbit