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Initial post: Nov 8, 2008 7:05:51 PM PST
Robert says:
Sorry, but God judges men according to their works, both good and bad- any punishment meted out by God would be fair, but the torments described in "23 minutes" are totally disproportionate to any human sins.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 4, 2008 6:25:06 PM PST
Ronin says:
This is the same god that sends unbaptised babies to burn forever in torment, for the sins of their mythical ancestors (Adam & Eve). Not really that surprising, really. Yahweh is a bit of a tosser.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 12, 2010 7:19:47 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 12, 2010 7:26:22 PM PST
Matthew says:
Robert judgement is according to how wicked you are in His thoughts not ours. We can't apply our understanding of how judgement works to our own standards. One sin makes us unable to enter the presence of God. Now Jesus died to pay for that sin so that he could purchase you as his possession for his purspose to be one of His people zealous for good works. Yet if you refuse to take His pardon he cannot forgive you. THen you must pay for your own sin. But you are not able to pay and so you won't get out till you pay the last penny. Which means you will be there forever. Bill explains this. Have you read the book?

Posted on Feb 15, 2010 1:10:30 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 15, 2010 1:12:07 AM PST
Ronin says:
"judgement is according to how wicked you are in His thoughts not ours"

Just how wicked can a newborn baby be?? On *any* scale of judgement?

You say to not "apply our understanding of how judgement works to our own standards", but then you immediately contradict yourself by explaining your understanding that "one sin makes us unable to enter the presence of God".
I'm still curious what 'one sin' the newborns might be guilty of? Which "Commandment" do newborns break?

"Now Jesus died to pay for that sin so that he could purchase you as his possession for his purspose to be one of His people zealous for good works"
Typos and grammar issues aside, you might want to be bought and sold like a slave, but it rubs me the wrong way. Especially when it comes with a dodgy back-story of supposed wickedness that needs to be cleansed.
Assuming, for the sake of argument only, that Jesus not only existed but was the divine being that is claimed, why did he die? If he is also Yahweh (aka "God"), then if Yaweh is all-knowing, why did he bother with it all in the first place?
After all, he knew that Adam and Eve would innocently disobey, way before they even existed. He knew he'd forgive humanity after offering himself as a human sacrifice to appease.. himself, way before even creating life itself. So, either your god is evil or makes big blunders or he's not all-knowing. Human sacrifice is abhorrent, so any deity that requires it, even of himself in human form, is barbaric.

"you must pay for your own sin"
And for that of a mythical pair of ancestors? Do you think it's fair to imprison your child for something your grandfather did?
How about eternal punishment for someone else's offence?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 18, 2010 8:32:04 PM PST
Well put, Matthew. So, I ask you to look at God's own law (Torah) for insight into GOD's Justice....................if a person steals, he owes double restitution..........if a person kills, he is in turn killed. God's law gives us insight into HIS heart, yet the Law NEVER prescribes eternal burning for any sin. Has this ever crossed your mind?

Posted on Apr 12, 2011 9:26:57 PM PDT
FYI, (if the bible is your final authority) what about...Christ died for ALL, therefore ALL died, therefore ALL shall be made alive in Christ...says to me that all this getting worked up about hell, salvation and all is pretty much a waste of time. It's already settled (according to the bible), "it's finished", according to the Christian mythology Christ has already taken care of everything. You don't have to do anything, you can't do anything to change this. You don't have to say the magick word(s), you don't have to believe. It's finished. Stop wasting your time on church (except for helping others), evangelizing, spreading the gospel (except for the truly biblical gospel, really good news, that says all is taken care of) trying to have perfect faith, etc. Hell and Death have been defeated. The whole world is saved! Everyone is part of the body of Christ (consider the profound effect this should have on how you see others). Praise God! Now, love one another.

No where in the bible does it say that the bible is the word of God.
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Participants:  5
Total posts:  6
Initial post:  Nov 8, 2008
Latest post:  Apr 12, 2011

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23 Minutes In Hell: One Man's Story About What He Saw, Heard, and Felt in that Place of Torment
23 Minutes In Hell: One Man's Story About What He Saw, Heard, and Felt in that Place of Torment by Bill Wiese (Paperback - January 30, 2006)
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