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Jesus: The Great Debate

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Jesus the Great Debate, by Grant Jeffrey

With this book, Grant Jeffery has attempted to fill a critical void in Historical Jesus Debate. While liberal, skeptical scholarship (for example, the Jesus Seminar), which often rejects the historical credibility of Jesus, has done a good job of presenting their case to the non-scholarly community, typically through sensationalistic books and articles, the other side is poorly represented. The best of the conservative scholarship in the Debate has been directed to other scholars, and is largely inaccessible to interested lay people. I admire Grant's intentions with this book, but I was very disappointed with the delivery. With the first ¾ of the book, he does try to present the case for the historical Jesus, using "archeological, and historical information that supports the claims of the Gospel writers," but with an over-simplification of the facts and often misrepresentation of the alternate viewpoints (the last ¼ of the book is largely unrelated to the Debate). I found many disappointments throughout the book. His frequent appeal to 19th and early 20th century biblical scholars is frustrating, considering all the recent, up to date, scholarship that is available. His scriptural references are typically drawn from the KJV, and at times this archaic language makes his argument annoyingly difficult to follow. The NKJV, or better yet, NRSV, would have been better. In Grant's tautological argument for the accuracy of Scripture, because it is the inspiration of God, he quotes 2 Tim 3:16, and John 10:35 (page 38). I believe the context of these texts refers to the newly forming (at that time) canon of what Christians call the Old Testament; the New Testament did not exist when these statements were made. Grant argues, without question, that the Pierced (or Piercing) Messiah scroll (4Q285) from Qumran refers to Jesus (p. 61), but even conservative scholars only agree the text refers to a messianic figure, possibly the Teacher of Righteousness, the leader of the Qumran community. The evidence for Jose O'Callaghan 1972 suggestion that NT books are represented among the Scrolls (p. 66) is too fragmentary and not taken seriously by many scholars today. On Golgotha and the Tomb of Jesus, Grant argues against the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and for Gordon's Calvary and Garden Tomb. Key to the argument against the Holy Scepulchre is the fact is was located inside the city walls. He dismisses Second Wall theory (allowing the site to be outside the wall) because "there is no conclusive archaeological evidence to prove this assertion." Grant completely ignores here the excavations of Kenyon and her case indicating the site was outside the first century wall. Yet, when Grant defends Gordon's Garden Tomb, he appeals to K. Kenyon and her support of the early dates of the tomb (thus, he obviously is aware of her work). If one looks at Gordon's fanciful vision of a skeleton superimposed on a map of Jerusalem, the reader could easily see silliness behind Gordon's approach to his selection of this site. There are better alternates if one does not accept the Holy Sepulchre (for example, see Ernest Martin's Secrets of Golgotha). In Grants challenge to the C14 dating of the Shroud of Turin, he talks about a case involving Mayan jade, a Itzamna Tun (p. 144) - but can jade be C14 dated? I feel Grant's interesting material on medieval Jewish messianic expectations (p. 191) should have little pertinence to the messianic expectations of pre-70 CE Palestine. In my opinion, the important Genealogy of Jesus (p. 221) is far too brief, and over half the chapter is devoted to an unrelated discussion of whether Jesus' Hebrew name was Yeshu or Yeshua. The useful points in this book include a good summary of the Shroud of Turin, excellent chapter on the evidence from ancient Christian tombs, and an interesting introduction to the complex Moses Maimonides. This book is much needed, but, for me, it disappointed. I hope Grant will work on a second edition, next time with better scholarship.

This book read like a novel. I found the evidence presented in the book both valid and interesting. Jeffrey goes over historical, archaeological, and logical arguments for and against the life of Jesus as presented in the Gospels and asks you to make an educated decision based on the facts.

Jeffrey does a good job going over the historical and archaeological evidence in order to prove Jesus existed. I found the evidence presented in the Dead Sea Scrolls, ancient Jewish sources, and Christian tombs, to be both enlightening and accurate. Once again, Grant R. Jeffrey gives Christians a book that can only strengthen their faith.

First off, I have to refute an earlier review from CL8 on 11-11-2000. If I understood his review, he gave this book a poor rating because it was not consistent with the Jesus Seminar. I say, of course it isn't consistent with the Jesus Seminar. The Jesus Seminar is a huge joke! Basically, the "theologians" of the Jesus Seminar vote on whether or not Jesus actually did what the Gospels state He did. They VOTE on it! When they vote, they have 4 different selections: definitely, maybe, not likely, and not at all. And, the majority rules. So, if 5 people vote that Jesus definitely did something, and 6 other people vote that Jesus didn't do it at all, then, according to the rules of the Seminar, Jesus didn't do it at all. What a joke!

Forgive me, I digress.... Back to the book.... This book covers everything from the writing and dating of the gospels, to the Dead Sea scrolls, to the Shroud of Turin. I find the evidence given by Jeffrey to be very compelling. I have been truly rewarded by reading this book. I still find myself somewhat skeptical about the Shroud of Turin, but Jeffrey does paint a very interesting picture of the shroud. Jeffrey does remain Biblical in his reasoning, so if he doesn't agree with some other scholars, that might be why. I have loaned out my copy of this book several times, and each time my friends found it insightful and a rewarding read. I would recommend this book to anyone.

DVD VIDEO VERSION OF JESUS DEBATE BETTER THAN BOOK

I have this book "JESUS DEBATE", as well as others from Jeffrey and similar writers. This is one of two books that I introduce to people who really want to know the TRUTH about Jesus, God ... and How to get to Heaven (born-again John 3:3) But, I PREFER THE VIDEO VERSION of this book.

The undecided, atheists, and "have to be politically correct" cannot answer the MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE --- beginning of LIFE from nothing, the fulfilled BIBLE PROPHECIES written hundreds of years earlier (Jesus as Messiah, Israel reborn in 1948, etc), God's unique watermark of BIBLE CODES discovered by Jewish mathematicians (and published with a challenge to disprove it), as well as the SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE of the Resurrection "SHROUD of Turin"

Jeffrey's "SIGNATURE OF GOD" (book and video) provides an overview of most of this in a single volume - the point being that the writing of the Bible was in effect "dictated" or controlled by God to further reveal Himself and His Message to humanity, culminating in Resurrection of Jesus (as God) and the New Testament. The other resource that I loan out to people is this review "Jesus Debate" both the book and THE VIDEO (from grantjeffrey website).

The Jesus Debate VIDEO HAS GREATER IMPACT than the book as it is EASIER TO FOLLOW the logical progression from one question to the next. Both the book and video are meant to be a wide ranging overview of material (much the same as "Signature of God"). The first half of the video covers the necessary background of: integrity and historical accuracy of the Gospels, Jesus as God, Reality versus Myth (including the Resurrection), etc This series of debate interviews gives equal time on a question by question basis between the "politically-correct" liberals on one side (Jesus Seminar) and the Christians (born-again) on the other.

The SECOND HALF OF THE VIDEO details the different aspects of the "STURP" SCIENTISTS and their EVIDENCE for the authenticity of the burial cloth of Jesus at the time of His Resurrection; otherwise, known as the "The Shroud of Turin" (named for the town & church which kept it for safekeeping over the last few hundred years).

The SCIENTIFIC TESTS cover, for example, the THREE DIMENSIONAL (PHOTOGRAPHIC NEGATIVE) life-size IMAGE that was formed through space (onto a two dimensional object draped over it - the Shroud), the FOREIGN POLLEN GRAINS from Israel and Odessa (where it traveled from Israel to France/Italy), the ISRAELI FLOWERS imaged around the head (used in the burial preparation) --- later becoming the inspiration for the "halo" in paintings, the numerous DETAILS OF THE FACE (which would be accepted in a modern court of law as well as becoming another model for later paintings), the image of the dated "PONTIUS PILATE" COIN also burned into the cloth, the MEDICAL FORENSIC EVIDENCE of a crucifixion, the HUMAN BLOOD contained within the Shroud, ...

... as well as the LAB ANALYSIS of the CAUSE OF THE IMAGE which has been determined to be produced by a BURST OF RADIATION (referred to as a "neutron flux"). --- And the only argument against the Shroud is a CONSPIRACY THEORY that it's all just a "FORGERY". But, the last time I checked, the TIME FRAME for this forgery (anywhere from the 1300s to 1500s AD) there were very few radiation machines sitting around. As a matter of fact, the TECHNOLOGY needed to create this particular Shroud image STILL DOESN'T EXIST TODAY. (Maybe the conspiracy should be updated and moved into the FUTURE, using a "Time machine" ??? --- ALSO not yet invented).

Public Broadcasting PBS ALSO REACHED THE SAME CONCLUSION in their TV PROGRAM "Secrets of the Dead". This Shroud IMAGE CAN'T BE RECREATED IN THE SCIENCE LAB. The PBS video goes through several recreations (which fail), while Jeffrey's video goes into a lot of detail of all the scientific evidence for its authenticity.

Compared to the HUNDREDS OF TESTS that the Shroud DID PASS, the ONLY SINGLE TEST that it did NOT pass was the infamous CARBON 14-dating. This only "date test" (Carbon-14) would be disproven by other dating methods, the flawed selection of material, contamination of material, and the lack of integrity in its oversight.

Instead of allowing the STURP team of scientists CONTROL OVER THE CARBON-14 TEST (and its results), it was taken over by Edward Hall and Harry Gove (who managed the laboratories where the test was made). Gove also made sure that the Carbon-14 RESULT would be a failure for the Shroud supporters. This ACCUSATION is detailed by the ATTORNEY/author Mark Antonacci (in chapters eight and nine) of his book "Resurrection of the Shroud"

This DATING TEST WAS RAN ALMOST TWENTY YEARS AGO using 1988 technology and experience. Christians and many scientists (including those from the original STURP team) HAVE ASKED FOR A RE-RUN OF THIS AND OTHER DATING TESTS using TODAY'S TECHNOLOGY --- under controlled conditions, using multiple, relatively uncontaminated (location-wise) samples, with OTHER CORELLATED TESTS for various environmental contaminants.

This single mishandled Carbon-14 test, prematurely cut short all of the other tests that were planned, but years later in 2002 another examination of the Shroud, brought back it's Jesus date as "AUTHENTIC". Most of the books published on the Shroud were written in 1999 or 2000, so they have not been updated with THIS NEW EVIDENCE.

The Vatican allowed for RESTORATION WORK IN 2002 OF THE SHROUD (removing some of the patches that were accelerating the oxidation of the adjacent original) under the direct supervision of the WORLD'S LEADING TEXTILE EXPERT HISTORIAN Mechthild Flury-Lemberg. She also has extensive expertise with other ancient cloths from Israel 2000 years ago, which lead to discoveries (during this restoration) that ACTUALLY DATE THE SHROUD TO THE FIRST CENTURY TIME OF JESUS CHRIST - FULLY REFUTING THE FLAWED CARBON-14 DATE. (This is detailed in the PUBLIC PBS VIDEO)

*** OTHER VIDEOS
The PBS PROGRAM for the "Shroud of Turin" may be purchased from PBS - Click on Shop PBS / (search for) SHROUD and you'll find the DVD video
JESUS & THE SHROUD OF TURIN DVD (August 2003, The Learning Channel) www.Amazon.com
WHO IS THIS JESUS DVD James Kennedy, Dean Jones www.coralridge.org
--- Dr. James Kennedy (leading born-again scholar and pastor) also tells of his belief in the evidence of the Shroud of Turin being the visible proof of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ ... see his book "Risen Indeed" at www.coralridge.org and www.truthsthattransform.org

*** OTHER SUPPORTING EVIDENCES may be found in these books and videos
Resurrection of the Shroud New Scientific Evidence ISBN# 0871319632 Mark Antonacci
Resurrected Tangible Evidence That Jesus Rose from the Dead # 0883474581 Gilbert Lavoie
Case for Christ A Journalist's Investigation # 0310209307 Lee Strobel
Signature of God (book/VIDEO) Grant Jeffrey # 0921714289 or 0921714270
Evidence that Demands a Verdict (volume 1) # 0840743785 Josh McDowell
Startling Proofs Does God Really Exist? (VIDEO-Creation/Evolution) # 8901731479 LaLonde
Genesis Question Scientific Accuracy of Genesis # 1576832309 Hugh Ross
Unlocking the Mystery of Life (VIDEO Intelligent Design of God) # 1589970926 Lad Allen
Dismantling Evolution - Intelligent Design # 0736904646 Ralph Muncaster
Science of God # 076790303X / Genesis / Big Bang Gerald Schroeder
Armageddon Earth's Last Days or Armageddon # 0921714408 Grant Jeffrey
End of History Messiah Conspiracy # 1579159931 and 0964862301 Philip Moore

*** FOR ANYONE HONESTLY WANTING TO KNOW "How can I really know if I'm going to Heaven?" -- START WITH --
Signature of God (book/VIDEO) Grant Jeffrey # 0921714289 or 0921714270
the New Testament Gospels - John, Luke, Matthew and Mark, then Romans and Acts
Jesus of Nazareth (Robert Powell - 6 hour VIDEO 1977) ISBN# 0784001154
How to Be Born Again ISBN# 0849931606 Billy Graham
Vernon McGee of "Thru the Bible" ENTIRE BIBLE STUDY AUDIO ON MP3 CD Set
and Chuck Missler's audio CD "The Bible in 24 Hours"

*** ADDITIONAL BOOKS are on my Amazon Guide "HAVE A CHRISTIAN SAMPLER"
ALSO LOOK AT www.Shroud.com and
www.TTB.ORG Thru The Bible Vernon McGee (his mp3 audio Bible Study CD set)
And www.ChristianAnswers.net www.BillyGraham.org www.GodandScience.org www.Reasons.org www.100prophecies.org www.GrantJeffrey.com www.LeeStrobel.com www.BibleCODEdigest.com www.DecisionMag.org www.CoralridgeHour.org www.Ankerberg.com www.JewsforJesus.org www.christianbook.com www.CoralRidge.org www.khouse.org

*** And for those having a bias ... members of the ATHEIST RELIGION ..."the evolution origin of first Life from DEAD matter as proven scientific fact")
(1) in your dreams ...
(2) many of whom NEVER READ any of these books and videos, but still give them one star (don't want to spend the money?)
(3) Try to think about this without a knee-jerk reaction:

According to the Shroud STURP SCIENTISTS, the Resurrection Shroud CANNOT be recreated in a science lab ... much less the fact that it's the ONLY ONE IN EXISTENCE for the LAST TWO THOUSAND YEARS. Why aren't other shrouds popping up all over the place? ... Just even one or two???

If it's not the "PROOF" OF JESUS RESURRECTION, (prophecy, archeology, history aside) then WHY aren't the thousands of atheist SCIENTISTS at LEAST coming up with a decent KNOCK-OFF REPRODUCTION in your labs??? Or are your scientists TOO BUSY trying to recreate LIFE (from inanimate, lifeless material) to PROVE GOD doesn't exist??? And unfortunately, for many of you, there will NEVER be enough evidence to convince you otherwise ... "waiting till Hell freezes over" isn't an option available for anyone.

The "GOOD NEWS" ... YOU CAN become an EX-atheist. (LIKE THE former atheist WRITERS Lee Strobel and Ralph Muncaster, above). Actually give yourself a few months to look at the other side of the issue from the Christian books, videos and sites listed above. If the Christians are wrong then you've gone the extra mile for that assurance and IF they're actually right after all (and you're still here) then YOU CAN have the True ASSURANCE at the moment of your Death that Jesus is in fact a proven, personal and the ONLY WAY to Heaven. In the meantime, think of these books and videos as a good excuse for coffee and doughnuts. What have you got to lose? --- ETERNITY?

... The focus should be on Him and our furtherance of His name here on earth before we run out of time.

Besides, clearly in the Gospel, it says there was seen (observed) one piece neatly folded, lying in a corner, that was used to cover His head; the rest seen lying in a heap. Two pieces.

Being so vociferously opinionated one way or another, gives one the idea we are hanging our hopes on a tangible thing. This not going to win hearts for Christ.

What would fans of the shroud have done if that Italian fireman hadn't whacked into the silver and glass case, and made off with it during the fire?

The shroud should be a non-item, same with the ark, same with the ark of the covenant in Ethiopia. They tell you that themselves, when you go there to pester them into showing you.

The effect He had on first century people and events, our holy Bible and finally our faith is what matters. These three things are crucial.

Nanette Ward
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Not a bad book. It's, in fact, very good for someone who's just beginning to read about Jesus scholarship or lack thereof in some cases (READ: Jesus Seminar). Jeffery also discusses some subtle nuances that are often overlooked (i.e., the possible significances of the Shroud of Turin, the Jewish Expectations of Messiah (anyone who thinks this part is a waste of time needs to think about their Christianity a little harder) and evidence of Gospel accuracy). To be frank, I liked it, though I've come to see that the arguments are a little weak when compared to other conservative scholars and their work. A good read would also be Gary Habermas' THE HISTORICAL JESUS. Though I haven't finished it yet, it does look promising. I'll let you know how it goes. However, in closing, let me recommend this book for some thoughts and ideas that you won't find anywhere else, but don't expect it to be the end all, do all book on Jesus research.

Dr. Jeffery's book is a great beginning book for anyone who is interested in understanding the historical Jesus controversy. Unlike most authors who are trying to support the under-informed Jesus Seminar, Dr. Jeffery's writes from an evangelical perspective which is inviting and encouraging. If you are searching for a book to intrigue you while also educate you, this is the book for you. May the Holy Spirit use his book for the ultimate glory of God and the furtherance of the Kingdom.

the author has attempted to prove definitively that Jesus was (and presumably still is) the Messiah. While he tries to write from a historian's perspective in the beginning, and presents much interesting information, his argument ultimately falls into the typical pattern of an apologetic. I found his chapter attempting to quantify the statistical odds of predicting certain events in the life and death of Jesus unconvincing as he assumed absolute historical accuracy of the Gospels. At the very least, that is highly debatable. The author also devotes a whole chapter to the inscriptions of early tombs in Jerusalem, some of which are Christian. That doesn't contribute to the argument. The book is very readable, unlike some other theological material.

JESUS: THE GREAT DEBATE (Frontier Research Publications, Inc., 1999) by a man named Grant R. Jeffrey is one of the worst Christian apologetic books I have read in recent memory. Though we find the name "Jesus Seminar" and liberal scholars' names brought up, I get the inference that Jeffrey has never actually read their works and publications, as Jeffrey simply spews out the old arguments that liberals have responded to for two decades. Recall the title of this book is that it is a "debate" yet Grant almost never responds to opposing views. I conclude that this book is simply another Josh McDowell type by an author who has lost touch with the fast-moving world of biblical scholarship.

While the first chapter starts off well, giving an extremely basic overview of current liberal scholarship, chapter two (concerning when the gospels were written) is terribly unimpressive. John Wenham's book ("Redating Matthew, Mark, and Luke") was excellent, and presented many argument for early dating of the gospels. Grant mainly gives the argument for authority -- basically, "Well [insert conservative scholar's name here] finds the evidence for early dating overwhelming," that's fine, but there are also world renowned scholars such as Burton Mack who date the gospels very late.

Jeffrey continues by giving his arguments for the specific dating of Jesus' birth and death. The question is: who cares? That is such an unimportant "debate" compared to other such issues as Jesus' deeds, words, miracles, resurrection, etc. Also entire chapters are devoted to the Jewish perspective on the future messiah, the shroud of turin, and the "search for the real tomb of Jesus," unless you're going to Israel soon I doubt that issue will be of any interest.

Perhaps Jeffrey's worst chapter is where he presents the standard defense of the secular references to Jesus. While this book presents itself to be examining opposing views (hence a "debate"), Grant NEVER looks at the criticism of the secular references by the works of G.A. Wells (notably) and others such as Micael Martin. While I feel it is almost ridiculous to conclude Jesus never existed, since Grant is arguing the secular references to Jesus are reliable, he should give a solid defense -- when in turn we find almost no defense.

Grant then continues to devote much space to the issue of what the Jews expected the messiah to be like. This hardly proves anything though. Jeffrey's then gives a chapter to the "probability" of the fulfilled prophecy of Christ. Grant fails to see the "debate" of this issue. Jews, in particular, have put of many defenses against what they feel are false uses of many passages Grant cites (such as Micah 5:2, Zechariah 9:9, Psalm 22), whether they be solid or specious, Grant ignores them. Also, the similar question comes up as to if they NT writers simply made up the stories to correlate to OT prophecies. Since the NT writers were very aware of the prophecies, it is a possibility that they were made up. Maybe that isn't a possibility, but since Grant never brings up this common response, we are simply left to ponder.

Grant continues to state his case that, "Jesus Christ Declared That He Was Truly God" (pg. 246). While the synoptics and John's gospel all portrey Jesus to have a christology, Grant never examines the historical-ness of these passages which he so freely quotes. The Jesus Seminar rejects that Jesus said almost all of the statements that Grant cites, yet Grant pretends that they are widely accepted. FOr a much better treatement of Jesus' Christology see (an actual scholar's) book "The Christology of Jesus" by the masterful Ben Witherington III.

Grant concludes by giving "the evidence of transformed lives," while Protestants, many actually, do have lives which are "transformed," so do Mormons, JW, etc. etc.

I conclude that Grant Jeffrey has a book that contributes NOTHING to the "debate" concerning Jesus. This books should probably be placed next to your dusty Josh McDowell "More than a Carpenter" as it has about the same level of apologetics. Recomended instead of this book is John Meier's "A Marginal Jew" which is one of the best treatements of the "Jesus Debate" of all time.