Customer Reviews

Lady Chatterley

5 star:		(13)
4 star:		(7)
3 star:		(4)
2 star:		(1)
1 star:		(2)

 

 

It is rare that a novel can successfully be adapted to the screen without losing much of its force. Lady Chatterley, Ken Russell's adaptation of D.H. Lawrence's Lady Chatterley's Lover, however, loses almost none of the force of the original source. The novel was banned when it came out, and one viewing of Lady Chatterley will explain why.

The British VHS box for Lady Chatterley boasts that it is filled with "very, very erotic sex." That is about the most accurate statement you can make about this movie. Lest one get the wrong idea, however, this made-for-TV movie is not pornography. It utilizes the original plot, cutting out some of the more social aspects of the novel, to tell a beautiful story about one woman's search for love -- sexual and otherwise -- outside of her marriage and class.

Joely Richardson, best known in the U.S. for cavorting with Mel Gibson in "The Patriot," here bares it all early and often with Sean Bean. Both of them shine in their respective roles. Ms. Richardson is brilliant as a strong, independent woman whose husband is crippled during WWI, thus basically ending her sexual life prematurely. Sean Bean plays her lowly, gamekeeper lover, Oliver Mellors. The dirty, scruffy, growling Mellors is the perfect vehicle for Sean Bean's talent -- part bad guy, part sensual lover, in many ways a guilty pleasure (much like Sean Bean himself!)

This is not a movie for immature audiences -- it is as beautiful a story as it is erotic, much the way D. H. Lawrence wrote it. Nor is it for the faint of heart -- the sex scenes are revealing and very intense. It is beautifully shot, wonderfully acted, and overall, is an amazing cinematic experience. The 3.5 hours are well worth watching, at least for fans of Joely Richardson or Sean Bean.

Although the movie is extremely good, I would definitely recommend reading the original novel as well, particularly the unexpurgated version. Some of the best scenes in the novel were cut for censorship considerations and their inability to work onscreen. Nonetheless, fans of the novel will not be disappointed -- and those unacquainted with the novel will certainly be more than a little surprised at the force and eroticism of this movie.

This BBC miniseries has a well earned reputation as being much looser and freer with its literary souce (here the source material is not just one work but several works of DH Lawrence)than most literary adaptations for English television. Also, while most BBC productions of literary masterpieces are studies in social conservatism this one obviously identifies with and invites us to identify with its most irreverent and forward-thinking characters: in this case the sultry and sophisticated, and somewhat libertine (in a 1920's kind of way), Lady Chatterly & the earthy and irreverent and smoldering (smoldering both with class resentment and with lust for a lady from the oppressive class) Oliver Mellors. Both of these factors can be attributed to director Ken Russell who has had a long and illustrious career writing and directing some of the BBC's best programs (many of them about musical composers). Russell is nothing if not unconventional and freethinking. Of course most of us in the states know Ken Russell as the director of a handful of cult classics such as TOMMY (1975), ALTERED STATES (1979),and, GOTHIC (1986); all of which feature lurid dream sequences and, some would say, gratuitously lewd situations. But Ken Russell is actually a director with many facets, and Russell's interest in DH Lawrence goes back to at least 1969 when he made what is still the best DH Lawrence adaptation on film, WOMEN IN LOVE (starring Glenda Jackson, Oliver Reed & Alan Bates). He then followed that up twenties years later with THE RAINBOW (starring Amanda Donohoe, and Sammie Davis). Both of these adaptations are known for being restrained and fairly true to their sources even though Russell did add some scenes in both which were not in the original books; his additions, however, were tasteful and even added clarity to the material.

What is interesting about this new DH Lawrence adaptation is that Ken Russell seems to have remained interested in DH Lawrence for so many years and for many of the same reasons. DH Lawrence more than any other author in the English language, or any language for that matter, stands for the power of the body and the bodies experience over the power of reason. This was the main theme of his earlier DH Lawrence adaptations and this is the main theme of his latest. But this one is by far the most sensual of the three and that is largely due to the fact that Joely Richardson seems to be the very embodiment of sensual awakening; the actress seems as willing as her character to simply follow the dictates of the body regardless of social norms. Its always a big deal when a high profile actress (especially one with the lineage of Joely Richardson) sheds her clothes on screen, but to do so on British televison for all to see takes more than a little boldness. The nudity is well done and adds to the allure of this BBC classic; no question about that. The greatest scene in the entire 4 hour miniseries is not the nudity, however, but, the vision Joely has before she ever ventures out to that hut in the woods. One night after hearing her blowhard husband, Lord Clifford (who cares more for his family estate "Wragby" and his "class" than he does about any individual), read from Socrates about the white horse of reason and the black horse of desire, she dreams she is riding through a Greek temple full of nude men who seem to be growing like vines out of the stone. This is not something that DH Lawrence ever wrote, this is pure Ken Russell and yet its the most exciting thing in the whole miniseries; plus its the best way to deliver Lady Chatterly's state of mind (or body) to us. DH Lawrence is actually very wordy for one who claims to be interested in the body more than in the mind but Ken Russell has found a visual shorthand for delivering those Lawrentian themes with nice visuals. I only wish there were more moments like this. The most sensual acting is done by Joely Richarson when in her private chambers. And Russell seems to be keenly aware that it is Lady Chatterly's imagination that fires her body. After the horse dream Connie drapes a veil over her head and walks nude through the house down to Lord Clifford's first-floor room. This scene is more imaginatively and erotically charged than any of the actual love scenes that will follow.

The actual affair between Lady Chatterly and Oliver Mellors is a little odd; in fact its very awkward. At first they just agree (sort of) to use each other for sex. But of course that never works and soon they are intimates thoroughly engaged with each other, body and mind, and running naked through the rainy glades and meadows; then sitting nake dbefore a fire and pretending to be Lady Jane and John Thomas. Their "understanding" involves a mutual appreciation of nature, and a mutual loathing of Lord Clifford and the upper-class privileges that he defends as birthrights. Russell gets a lot of mileage out of the Racine and Proust reading and piano and chess playing Lord Clifford and his antagonisms toward all those that he perceives to be lower than himself (pretty much everyone in the coal mining community that he owns; this actor really has fun with this role and Russell obviously enjoys his rants because he gives him so many). Lord Clifford is actually a pretty forward-thinking guy, in his own way, as he does give his wife permission to take a lover, but, arguably, its for selfish reasons: he merely wants an heir. We certainly pity this WWI vet who must cart himself around in various malfunctioning contraptions (metaphors for the mind and its futile tinkerings perhaps; what people are reduced to when they no longer have a functioning body) but he just won't allow anyone to actually like him except his live-in nurse who finds him curiously attractive (a plot thread that Russell leaves undeveloped). He even vents about the lower classes "knowing their place" in the "natural" scheme of things right in front of his house servants. Russell lingers on the face of one table servant as he does so (another striking Russell touch). No mistaking whose side this film maker is on. So this affair of the body between Lady Chatterly and Mellors is actually informed by a social awareness and a mutual understanding and empathy (which one could argue is as much about reason as it is about the body). In any event we eventually come to accept that these two opposties are drawn to one another for a variety of social and sexual reasons: the one perhaps fueling the other.

Lady Chatterly's own father and sister are free-living bohemians; so why exactly she was attracted to the repressed snob Lord Clifford Chatterly is a bit of a mystery. Both her father and sister encourage Connie to find lovers but her sister anyway is as much as a snob as Lord Clifford. We're not certain and we never hear what her father thinks of her affair with the gamekeeper Mellors so we never know if the affair has had social repercussions for Lady Chatterly herself.

The ending is a bit ...well I don't want to give it away. Suffice it to say that it's different than the book and it doesn't quite resolve those class issues that it raised. The answer seems to be: leave England. Perhaps the ending is based on one of Lawrence's short stories. In any event Ken Russell's creative attitude toward the "classics" is perhaps the most attractive thing about this adaptation. I hope his attitude is contagious and will inspire more loose and free treatments of the classics. This cultural freedom is refreshing and liberating (for mind and body).

Now available in a DVD format, Lady Chatterley is the dramatic and passionate BBC miniseries directed by Ken Russell and based upon the D.H. Lawrence novel "Lady Chatterley's Lover" which gave rise to what was perhaps the most famous obscenity trial of the 20th Century and continues to appear on various banned books lists for it subject matter. It's the story of a young and sexually repressed woman of the British upper class who is unhappily married to a paralyzed husband. She encounters a gamekeeper on her estates whose scandalous attentions awaken her senses. This BBC production is technically flawless and hallmarked with beautiful outdoor scenes, authentically detailed indoor sets, brilliant acting, and outstanding direction. Available in VHS (11457, $29.95), Lady Chatterley has a running time of 205 minutes.

Brilliant! I bought this movie because of Sean Bean (I just wanted to hear him saying "lass"...) and because I love british drama. I just finished it and I am not disappointed. What a great story! I do believe that the sex scenes are far from being shocking, they are justified, intense and beautiful. The previous reviews say it all - great story, adaptation, characters... over 200 minutes very, very well spent.I'll let the tears dry now.

For anyone who has seen the 1981 film adaptation by Just Jaeckin and was dissapointed then this is for you. The 1981 film, I feel, failed to capture the essence of Lady Chatterley's character whilst this version has got it almost perfect. I think the filming and editing in this version far exceeds the film and the acting is a darn sight better. Joely Richardson does the lead justice and Sean Bean (although much better looking that the book describes Mellors but really, who's complaining?) compliments her well. The screen play is faithful considering filming constraints and all together I really enjoyed it. I'm now studying the novel for a university module and this has made me appreciate what is essentially a book/adaptation that pushes class boundaries through the guise of female sexuality. It caused a lot of controversy because of the female lead apparantly being stronger than her husband, taken to extreme in her sexual escapades, rather than being simply an object owned my him. At the trial of the book in the late 1920s the procecutor famously opened with the statement "Is it a book you would wish your wife or servants to read?" Need he say more?
If you do not want to look at the story that deeply then it really doesnt matter, it is a beautifully made adaptation and well worth the 4 hours viewing time.

On The cusp of my Lord of The Rings obsession, I've been passing the time by watching films starring the actors from Peter Jackson's Oscar winning epic trilogy. When my quest for Sean Bean films led me to watch Ronin- in English and Spanish-I broke down and bought the first movie I had seen the Boromir actor in- the 1993 BBC production of Lady Chatterley.
Sure Patriot Games and Goldeneye are great, but it was director Ken Russell's adaptation of the banned D.H. Lawrence novels that embedded Sean Bean in my brain. Sex, adultery, class divides, and naughty language sent not one, but three versions of D.H. Lawrence's Lady Chatterley's Lover underground. When the third and most tame version was finally published in 1962, scandal and controversy erupted on both sides of the Atlantic.

I knew nothing of this history when I first saw the theatrical two hour version late at night on cable. Boy or girl, a young teen will find the soft core porn that is currently everywhere in our society. At the time, I often tuned in for Red Shoe Diaries. A few bumps and grinds, perhaps some [...], sometimes a nice story and historical location. The Marilyn Chambers movies, however, I could do without. I sought more than weak porn. I wanted a story.

Imagine my surprise when Lady Chatterley appeared. Unlike its early 20th century/World War I contemporaries Avonlea and The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, Lady Chatterley stars Joely Richardson as the sexually repressed young wife of a paralyzed veteran (James Wilby) who finds love in a scandalous affair with her husband's gamekeeper (Sean Bean).
Make no mistake, there are kinky folks who will tune into the second and third parts of Lady Chatterley's four hours purely for the sex scenes. To take the series only for those visuals, is however an injustice. The miniseries format allows director Russell to take the time and set up the marriage of Lady Constance and Sir Clifford. They are both intellectuals in the upper class. Connie hails from a heady and upstanding artistic family, and Sir Clifford has a long list of noble names to live up to. The couple get on well enough, but there is already strain between them when the story opens. One might wonder how and why they married in the first place. The War? Perhaps the union was an unofficially arranged one? Already we have questions, as does Lady Chatterley. She yearns for more than serving as nurse to her often grumpy (although understandably so) husband. Sir Clifford, however, doesn't want to see his title end, and invites Connie to take a lover, in hopes of claiming an illegitimate child for his own.

At first, Constance clings to the image of a loyal wife-despite prodding from her own sister and father. She finds the ranch hand-foreman-wild-man-of-the-woods Mellors rude and fearful. Finally, after discussing the symbolism of the black horse of passion with Sir Clifford, Connie hires a nurse for her husband and sets off to explore her estate-an estate that the brutish and strong-not paralyzed-Mellors is always lurking. Inevitably, the Lady and the Gamekeeper begin a purely sexual affair. Their encounters grow to something more, and the couple seeks to find a escape from the society that divides them.

I dare say the serious opening and closing hours of Lady Chatterley are my favorites. The story's setup and resolution are indeed more important than the sex scenes, even though no sexual scene is superfluous or fluff. The reflections on the war, striking coalminers, and class debates all give weight to the story. Sir Clifford reads and becomes extremely intellectual while bound to his wheelchair, yet he sees nothing wrong with the English class divides. Connie of course disagrees with the notion that there will always be people who boss and people to boss. Mellors is a higher servant than most, yet he still must take orders from other household servants, and Sir Clifford mocks his accented speech. Constance's father and sister also find no problem with her taking a lover, but all expect it to be a man of upper standing, not a servant. Likewise, none of the lower class cared that Mellors and his wife lived separately until the affair with Lady Chatterley comes out. He becomes an outcast in his own society-a class that Clifford jokingly calls `the enemy'.

The absurdity of this class division is obvious to the viewer. The juxtaposition of the bright, big, and beautiful green Chatterley estate versus the cramped dirty, rocky mines is a smart move by Russell, as is the love scenes between Connie and Mellors. The natural wooded part of the estate is theirs, where class troubles can't reach them, and simplicity and innocence rule-unlike the cold, structured halls of the Wragby estate.
Russell and his co screenwriter Michael Haggaig also give double duty to the production's dialogue. I've not read any versions of Lawrence's books, only criticisms, but the screenwriters use the sound source materials to their advantage. Every line spoken has double and symbolic meaning. Part one ends with the first significant interaction between Mellors and Lady Chatterley. She wants a key for the hut on the property, and Mellors closes with, `If you let me know when you want it.' Sexual innuendo, the face value meaning, a little key into the lock penetration symbolism, and a hint of chastity belt referenced all in six words.

The acknowledgement of speech divides is also sharp. When Connie's sister Hilda (Hetty Baynes) finally meets Mellors, she asks him to speak `normal English'. The similar but different nature of the way they talk should keep the lovers apart, but it is a treat for the audience. Listen closely, and not just for the naughty language.
Now of Nip/Tuck fame, Joely Richardson was fairly new at the time of Lady Chatterley's release, as was future Sharpe star Sean Bean. Both give every ounce to the production, and the delivery from the actors is also perfect. The way Sean Bean says `Your Ladyship' alone shows his pent up torment. We follow Connie's perspective more, but listen closely to Mellors' speeches. He's been a lonely misunderstood soul and now he's found an emotional awakening with the one woman he shouldn't have. Likewise Joely Richardson is perfect in nearly every frame. She's so proper in the beginning, then shrinks in illness. She looks radiant and grows in beauty as her relationship with Mellors grows. The looks and unspoken movements between the two are exceptional. She bites her lips and nails when observing Mellors, and he often tilts his head or hunches away shy in her presence-as opposed to his upright towering over the permanently seated Clifford.

The chemistry between the leads is evident, yet Russell swiftly finds ways to symbolically divide them onscreen. Many of the scenes between Richardson and Bean are through fences or gates, implying one or the other is always locked out or in. Even after their relationship begins, trees or posts will cut the two shot down the middle, leaving a divided but symmetrical shot onscreen. Subtle but brilliant from Russell. These shots show how out of her element Constance is, but also how trapped Mellors is. The cinematography, acting, and dialogue all multitask, and multiple viewings of Lady Chatterley is a must if one is to catch everything.
Sir Clifford and his nurse Mrs. Bolton also develop a special relationship, parallel to Connie and Mellors, but acceptable of course. Their conversations seem more evenly matched. They play chess and the widowed nurse is more physically intimate with Sir Clifford then Connie, taking over the duties of bathing and shaving him. Her words are also accented, but Clifford never insults her about it. Wilby does a fine job as Clifford. He insults and bosses Mellors, but in fact it is Clifford who cannot function without his servants. Mellors may take orders, but he his own man, where Clifford's paralysis puts him at the mercy of everyone else-even Mellors. Wilby swiftly moves from sorrowful and intelligent to brutish and melancholy. You feel bad for Clifford when his motorized chair gets stuck, and further emotional when it is Mellors who must push the crippled husband of his lover. Sir Clifford of course insults Mellors and then we hate him again.

Perfectly matching James Wilby is Shirley Anne Field as Mrs. Bolton. She plays the widowed nurse expertly yet with a slight air of ambiguity. Her button up style and always proper air are perfect, if a little Mrs. Danover from Rebecca. She claims to be there for both the husband and wife but clearly puts together the pieces about Lady Chatterley and Mellors. When rumors begin about their affair, Russell alludes that it might have been Mrs. Bolton leading the servant talk, yet she swiftly covers for Connie and keeps Sir Clifford in the dark. Clueless as he is anyway, Clifford doesn't doubt Mrs. Bolton, nor does Lady Chatterley. It's almost as if she might have let something slip, but not out of malice. Mrs. Bolton seems to understand that Wragby Hall isn't where Connie belongs and seeks to speed her escape to Mellors. The women talk frankly about knowing true love, warmth, and tenderness from a man. Mrs. Bolton knows that is what Connie needs, and she won't get it from Sir Clifford.

Social and sexual intrigue aside, Lady Chatterley is a stunning period piece. The Wragby Hall location is breathtaking and takes on the feel of a supporting character itself. When Mellors waits on its vast steps, he's clearly out of his element. Likewise Clifford's room could seem like a dream. Incredible bed, books everywhere, the piano and the latest inventions. Connie, of course, fits neither in the uppity hall or the meager shack in the woods. Joely Richardson's costumes are so lush. Today such hats and flapper style dresses would seem ridiculous, but they looks gorgeous onscreen. The proper style, yet free spirited fabrics and layers fit the character so well, and Russell's attention to detail sets everything off. Richardson's wisps of hair and the clang of her beads set the tone for her wild ways.
Sean Bean's costume also says far more about his character than he does. So lowly valued, yet he wears a button collar and tie while he lurks the woods with a dog and a gun strapped to his back. The wearing or removing of his page boy hat also add depth to Mellors' mood and respectfulness. Even the music and props complete every scene. By no means is Lady Chatterley some B porn production. The wind up gramophones, old time radios, candelabras, and vintage cars sell every authenticity, and the score moves between modern jazz tunes and haunting classical arrangements. Russell insisted on using English compositions, and the tunes top off the flavor of the film.

But finally I must mention what I'm sure you've all been waiting for. The sex scenes in Lady Chatterley were spared nothing less than Russell's best, of course. There isn't any foreplay, fondling, or even oral sex. When Connie and Mellors finally get to it, they get to it. The initial consummation is a bit awkward for both parties. They discuss and try to resist but ultimately succumb to the sort of re-virginal experience. Lady Chatterley hasn't been with a real man in some time, and Mellors confesses his demeaning wife was the only woman he had ever been with. The dialogue is indeed necessary in the kinky scenes. If what's going on isn't clear in the visuals, the characters say what they mean, and I mean they say it!
The pre and post conversations are particularly important in two ambiguous sex scenes-one that is near rape and another that is most likely [...] sex. If you're not reeling and all giggles over those, prepare yourself for Part 3. I suspect Lady Chatterley's `For Mature Audiences Only' warning is for the full frontal nudity sequences. I don't wish to spoil it, but ladies if you go in slow motion, you will see the whole Bean.

In the end, however, Lady Chatterley isn't about the tawdry sex scenes. By part 4, sensitive types may need a box of tissues. The speeches from Connie and Mellors are so sincere, honest, and downright poetic that the audience can't help but root for the couple. Russell hold nothing back, from nasty husbands, kinky sex, and bad language so that we are raw, primed, and moved for the production's big finish. In Lady Chatterley's final fifteen minutes, you will be agonizing and cheering Connie and Mellors on to happiness. Do our fair lovers find each other at the end? I shan't tell!
The Lady Chatterley DVD is available in all regional formats at a very affordable price. Usually under $30 at most retailers, or online if you're a bit shy about the purchase. The double disc set has little special features to speak of, only a brief photo gallery, trailers, and an interview with Ken Russell. Not for children of course, I also don't think men will enjoy Lady Chatterley. Despite plenty of Joely's bits, males won't be interested in the story or period costume drama. Keep Lady Chatterley for your own guilty pleasure, or for that all girls night you've been planning. All four hours in one sitting, tears, and repeat viewings- I assure you Lady Chatterley will not disappoint.

D. H. Lawrence's classic and erotic novel, "Lady Chatterley's Lover",is beautifully filmed and retold in this Ken Russell video production.
Lovely Joley Richardson plays Lady Constance Chatterley, in the title role, as a sexually and socially repressed young English woman in the early 1920's. She is married to Sir Clifford Chatterley, played by Michael Wilby,as a titled, WW1 British officer, whose war injuries have paralized him from the waist down.
We watch as Constance accepts her fate at first, and loyally looks after her demanding,upper-class husband. The isolation and Sir Clifford's constant need for care take its' toll, and soon Lady Chatterley's mental and physical health is in question. A nurse-companion, Mrs. Bolton, is hired from the local colliery town of Tevershall, thus relieving Connie of her duties, giving her more time to visit with her family members and,to go for long walks in the near-by woods. Soon, her wanderings cross paths with Sir Clifford's reclusive,irrasible,lowly bred game keeper, Oliver Mellors.
Actor Sean Bean, with his rakish and sensual "bad boy" good looks, plays Mellors with great intensity and honest passion. He is perfectly cast as the angry, down trodden man who finds new life and "the only freedom" he has ever known,in the love he shares with the independant, and equally passionate Lady Chatterley.
This adaptation follows the literary novel closely. (Please read the book, if you haven't already, as some of the warmly passionate and meaningful scenes have been left out for the sake of censorship and the movies length). The video "fleshes out" (pardon the pun!)the novel that features lots of dialogue in the book. The comparisons between priviliged and idealic country life, and the "blackened" buildings that serve as social "traps", rather than homes to the low-born class,gives one pause for thought, even 80 years later.Even Sir Clifford is able to gain our sympathies now and then,as he tries to control what little of his life he can, but in the end, he needs to rely on others.It was interesting to see the stories characters juxtaposed in front of the cathedral windows, or in the front doorway at Wragby Hall;a subtle way of letting the viewer know "who is in control now!".
I highly recommend this video. Although this (surprisingly) un-rated BBC production aired on British TV (....and we think the Brits are "stuffy", not a chance!!!), it is not for the prudes or immature viewers among us! It is an honest and moving portrait of a love that conquers all!

Oooooh! This is one great video! It's hot, it's spicy, and it's seriously well made and well written, which gives you a great excuse to watch it--you can say you're watching it for its artistic merit, instead of just admitting that you bought it to perve on Sean Bean's (Lord of the Rings) gorgeous bottom! (Or Joely Richardson's bits, if you'd rather.)

The cast is lovely, the script intelligent, the scenery opulent, and the plot intriguing. Need I say more? Watch it, preferably with your significant other. You won't be disappointed.

Very entertaining look at Lady Chatterley. After reading the book I was very curious to see how the story could be brought to life! Ken Russell has done a fine job and the two lead actors bring life to Lady C and Mellors. Prior to this movie, I did not think Sean Bean (Mellors) was anything special, but after seeing his portrayl in this movie- all that has changed. He is superb and an excellent leading man- just perfect- I do not see how any woman could not fall for him in this role. Easy to see how Lady C does! Buy this DVD- you will not be disappointed!

Ken Russell is still the master of D.H. Lawrence on film - at least for now. If you like the original purple prose, which I do, you should like the purple in this series. (You might also consider buying "Women in Love.") Sean Bean, as Oliver Mellors is always a good excuse to watch a movie. He and Joely Richardson, as Constance Chatterley, offer really nice performances - even James Wilby as her priggish "Clifford" is very angering in a believable way. I had to make peace with the lousy soundtrack that intruded on the dialogue and action and saps the oxygen from the passion Russell wants to portray. I was not crazy about the unevenness of the script, ranging from juvenile to thoughtful dialogue on the meaning of love, compassion and class. Think of the first disc as exposition and the second disc offering a truer soul of the story and worth buying the series. Would this have been better as a shorter feature film? Just remember that the book articulates Mellors' complexity as a veteran of WWI and a member of the working class who has educated himself even though he tries to fit in with his peers and English social structure. Also, Russell takes a liberty with the ending. If you want better instruction on gameskeeping, read the novel. "Angels and Insects" would make a great little film festival on the same themes presented as or more sensually than "Lady Chatterley." Really, hearing Bean say "lass" is just heaven even to this feminist mind.