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14 of 14 people found the following review helpful:
4.0 out of 5 stars
A Useful Corrective to a Distorted View of Plato, May 2, 2002
This review is from: The Laws of Plato (Paperback)
Plato's "Republic" is used most often in college courses to illustrate Plato's thoughts on politics, but it does not seem to contain a serious political program. The characters in the "Republic" are mostly young men not yet entrusted with political responsibility who are, nevertheless, concerned with justice and how a city would have to be composed in order to be fully just. That such a city could never, in fact, come about becomes less important than the questions of justice and soul that the discussion raises. Obviously (and by Plato's intention) the "Republic" does not present a practical political program. Students relying on this dialogue alone to get a sense of Plato's thoughts on the best regime may be led astray, especially if they are guided by a bad teacher (of which there are many in the universities). The best corrective to this is to read Pangle's translation of Plato's "Laws". In this dialogue an Athenian Stranger discusses various proposed laws with a Cretan who is shortly to assist in the founding of the new colony of Magnesia. The laws and regulations proposed by the Stranger are concessions to the way men are, rather than idealistic portraits of how they should be. The rule of philosopher-kings is not proposed, and the fact that all three interlocutors come from cities that at one time or another were at war with one another introduces a note of distrust and seriousness that is missing in the more playful "Republic"; this seriousness befits the discussion's more practical nature. Pangle's translation is literal and trustworthy where other translations take liberties with Plato's terminology, while the notes ameliorate the limitations of the translation form. If you are unsatisfied with this, prepare to learn the Greek since a better translation is not likely to be forthcoming. If Pangle's Interpretive Essay leaves a bad taste in your mout, feel free to read "The Argument and the Action of Plato's Laws" by Leo Strauss. My impression, however, is that Pangle's essay is more appropriate for readers who may find the unfamiliar "Laws" more, well, unfamiliar than, say, the "Republic". No one can deny that the "Laws" is more complex than the "Republic" and builds on many of that dialogue's insights, coming as it does at the end of Plato's career. To my mind, however, it is as indispensable as the "Republic" and teachers do their students a great disservice by not assigning the "Laws" more often. In conclusion, I highly recommend this dialogue and translation--accept no substitutes.
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11 of 12 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
Laying down the law..., October 11, 2005
This review is from: The Laws of Plato (Paperback)
When one thinks of Plato and his ideas of politics, one naturally gravitates toward his best-known work, the Republic. In that book, Plato set up the ideal city-state, with classes born and bred to specific functions and roles in society, and a sense of philosophical outlook consistent across the board. However, such a society was unlikely to be brought out, in Plato's time and, as it turned out, in any other.
Plato tried at different times to persuade rulers to become his envisioned philosopher-king; the last attempt was with a tyrant of Syracuse, who in the end imprisoned Plato rather than following his directions. Plato wrote this work, 'The Laws', as the last of his dialogues. Its difference from the Republic is immediately apparent in the absence of Socrates as a character - Plato at the end of his life has finally taken to working in his own right and not through a proxy.
Just looking at the contents will show the breadth of this work - it involves practically every aspect of civil society: legislative bodies (and Plato has some scathing commentaries on some that he has known); education and its proper role and method (including even drinking parties as part of the educational process); ideas of monarchy, democracy, and the balance of power (some American constitutional ideas were generated from a reading (and occasional misreading) of this work); civil administration; arts and sciences; military and sports training; sexual conduct; economics; criminal law, torts, and judicial process; religion and theology; civil law, property and family law; Plato even argues for the need of a 'nocturnal council', one that delves not only into the practical aspects of the law, but also their philosophical bases.
According to translator and editor Trevor Saunders, 'The reader of the Republic who picks up the Laws is likely to have difficulty in believing that the same person wrote both.' Saunders speculates that Plato in his older years changed from optimism to pessimism, from idealism to realism, but that this is not all there is to the assumption, because in actual fact the transition from the Republic to the Laws involves transitioning unattainable ideals to attainable realities.
Plato describes the construction of a utopian society in great detail, down to the number of citizens permitted to live in the city (5040) and the length of time foreigners might reside in the city (20 years). This shows that Plato considers politics to be an exact science (indeed, despite the inclusion of the 'nocturnal council', he did see his system of laws being essentially unalterable through history). Plato is not averse to the use of force and coercion to set up and maintain the utopian society. Finally, Plato sees a self-contained kind of society that is likely to become xenophobic to the extreme, with less tolerance toward its own citizens than toward those foreigners permitted to live and work in the city. Indeed, for the virtuous citizens to be free to pursue their virtue, the majority of the manual work and crafts must be done by a worker class composed of slaves or immigrant workers, or both.
Plato's Laws suffer from much greater criticism in the modern world than the Republic, in part because it is a more 'realistic' work, with a reality that no longer applies. However, many of his insights are worthwhile, and the overall structure of his society reflected in the Laws is worth discussion as much as is that of the Republic. One of the problems with this work vis-a-vis the Republic is its length (the Laws is considerable longer); another problem is that it lacks the dramatic reading possible from the Republic, rather the difference between a political debate and a legal seminar. Still, it is an important work, showing how Plato's thought had shifted in his lifetime.
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2 of 3 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
Best translation and commentary on Plato's Laws, March 1, 2011
This review is from: The Laws of Plato (Paperback)
This is probably the best translation of Laws out there. The commentary in the end of the translation is superb and fill the void on generally rare interpretation of this works. A few notes on Plato's Laws:
- Unlike other works by Plato, this is less of a "dialogue" and more like a treatise. Whereas in other dialogs Plato would challenge and agree with his dialog-partner on a certain subject, here he (the Athenian stranger) does not shy away from "stating" what should be. So, as such, this work is very different from other of Plato's works, both in structure and in style.
- I like to compare this with Timeaus. In Timaeus, Plato describes the stucture of the cosmos, the world out there, how it works, how each planets interact with each others, how universe was created, and so on. In the Laws, Plato describes the inner working of a polis based on Laws: how laws came to being, what are the laws for various transgression and so on. Laws is a description of the cosmos within a polis.
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