Customer Reviews

Logitech G13 Programmable Gameboard with LCD Display

5 star:		(114)
4 star:		(60)
3 star:		(18)
2 star:		(14)
1 star:		(15)

 

 

I have used both the Logitech G13 and Belkin n52te extensively, so I thought it would be useful to write a review comparing the two products.

Usage
I have used both keypads to play World of Warcraft (WoW) extensively. Typically I use the mouse to steer my character, and the keypad to do the actions on my action bar. I use the joystick to move forward, back, and strafe left and right. My hand is average to small in size.


Keys
The Logitech G13 has more keys than the Belkin n52te. In fact the main reason I bought the G13 was because I ran out of keys on the n52te. The G13 has 22 keys plus a joystick button, and two extra buttons near the joystick for a total of 25 programable items. The n52te has 14 keys, a scroll wheel up-down-click button, and two buttons by the joystick for a total of 19 programmable items. When you get advanced in WoW, the more buttons you have, the better your game will be since you can quickly do an action by pressing a button.

The n52te keys are all pretty much the same shape, and the middle key has a bump on it to help you locate where you are. The G13 has the most common keys the same shape, but other keys near the edges have a different shape. I find this helpful since I can feel the key and know where I am due to its shape. The G13 all has four keys with a concave impression to help you locate where you are on the keypad. Again, I find this more useful than the one key the n52te uses with a bumb on it.


Joystick/D-Pad
The n52te has a D-Pad that allows you to control movement in 8 directions. It has an optional joystick insertion that makes it feel more like a joystick. When playing WoW, I actually only used 4 directions, and disabled the corner directionals, since it was too easy to go the wrong way by mistake. With just 4 directions (forward, back, strafe left, strafe right), it was easier to use.

The G13 has a small joystick which allows you to control 4 directions. Comparing the two, I think the G13 is much easier on the thumb than the n52te. After hours of play, and days of gaming, this makes a big difference. The G13 moves much easier and with less effort than the n52te. The G13 also pivots more naturally, so it is much easier to switch directions with less effort. The only thing I don't like about the joystick is the joystick button is very hard to press.


Ergonomics
I feel that the n52te actually promotes carpel tunnel syndrome in the way its designed. The problem is that it forces you to bend your wrist upward so that you are continually putting stress on those tendons. The palm rest does not help, as it simply forces this bad wrist orientation. In order to use the n52te without pain, I actually had to prop up my elbow on some books so that my wrist could be in a more natural position.

The ergonomics on the G13 are far superior than the n52te. The way its designed it allows you to keep your wrist in its natural position, as when you are typing, without having to bend it upward as in the n52te. I can use the G13 continuously for hours upon hours with no discomfort at all.


LCD
The G13 comes with a LCD display, which the n52te does not have. At first I thought I would not use it much, but now I find it to be a helpful addition. For WoW, it shows your characters stats as well as other things such as your equipment durability, so you know when it is time to repair. On battlegrounds it shows stats like how many players on each side, time elapsed, deaths, killing blows, and honorable kills. The LCD does other stuff too when you are not playing the game (time and date, cpu usage, stopwatch, rss feeds, music info, etc). So I think it is a nice bonus.


Programming
I found both units really easy to program. It is very easy to assign any keystroke or key combinations or macros to any key on the keypad.


Conclusion
Overall, I would say the Logitech G13 is superior than the Belkin n52te and would highly recommend you buy the G13 over the n52te. My feeling is that the G13 is the next generation of keypads with all the best features, while the n52te is the old generation of keypads which has now been surpassed.

This review is somewhat lengthy, but I try to cover all the bases on this device.

Overall Impression: Very nice piece of hardware, worth the money.

Ok, let's get started.
Physical Properties: The pad itself is of decent size for someone with average to slightly-larger-than average hands. I have long fingers and still felt very comfortable on this device. The keys press easily and are in a comfortable layout. The joystick also moves easily with my thumb. However, the joystick has a "click" attached to it when you press it down which is somewhat difficult to activate while keeping the stick still. It's definitely a hard press.

There is a non-slip surface on the bottom to keep the unit in place which works perfectly, as well as a comfortable semi-nonslip on the wrist/palm rest.

The LCD is clear and brightly illuminated with customizable lighting. There is also an on/off button for the backlight built onto the unit so you don't have to play with lights on all the time. The backlight for the LCD also backlights the buttons, which means that they follow the same customizable functionality.

The LCD also displays various, customizable, information based upon applications you have running on your system. It has support for all the mainstream media players to display song information, as well as RSS information, email, etc. It also has the capability to display in-game information, but the game itself must support this. Warhammer, for instance, does not offer this support (that I've seen), so there are no vitals displayed on the LCD. World of Warcraft does offer support, so by default you can see quite a number of stats on your screen.

Software:
The G13 has its own software for assigning functions to the keypad. It also has an application dedicated to managing the LCD display. I have not used any other LCD / Programmable Logitech products in the past so I don't know how this compares with them.

In the software suite, you can scan your computer for available known games to the G13. I did not have luck with it finding my WAR installation, but I changed the default directory which could be the cause of this.

If it finds compatible games it will then make available a preconfigured gaming profile for that game. You are of course allowed to modify the profile if you wish or you can choose to create your own custom profile from scratch.

The profile creation is easy. It involves choosing a name and the game/application executable file.

Once you have a new profile, you can choose what to assign to your keys. Your options are key combinations, macros, or scripts. The software makes assigning each of these a snap. It only takes point and click to assign your keys under the profile, which is auto-saved.

The software is also where you are allowed to modify the LCD backlight color. Using the windows built-in color chooser, you can select any value of RGB to backlight your unit with. Each memory setting (1 - 3) can have its own backlight. This gives you an easy way to distinguish quickly which profile you're on.

Macros:
Macroing on the G13 is pretty straightforward. You can launch the macro editor and begin recording keystrokes and mouse clicks and then save them into the macro list. You are then able to assign the macros to G-keys on the board. The macro editor also allows you to add custom durations between events in the macro you're recording, or it can record durations between keypresses as you do them. I find it easier to record the macro first and then add delays later. This is very helpful for Warhammer since it has a global cooldown on all skills.

Scripting:
The G13 has an implementation of the LUA scripting language available for use. It includes most of the math libraries, strings, and some tables. Using the LUA language, and some custom Logitech event functionality (which are documented) you can create scripts to drive almost any aspect of the G13. They allow you to control the LCD, moving the mouse, emulating keypresses, etc. Once you create a script, you can assign it to a G-key very easily by choosing it from a list.



I think that about covers the G13. I am very pleased with having spent the money to order it. Something to keep in mind. The G13 is fantastic for gaming, but also has many practical uses outside of gaming. As a programmer, I find the G13 works well inside of my IDE for quickly running commands (compiling, debug, synchronization, etc).

I hope this helps you out! I am also not affiliated with Logitech in any way, but I do like their product.

Introduction:
I designed this review as a sort of encyclopedic critique of the each criticism I've found in the reviews here on Amazon and elsewhere. To prove my nerdiness conclusively, I've indexed my responses to each criticism so you don't have to read the whole thing. You can just pick out the issues that concern you and get my scoop on them.

Introduction
1: Comfort
2: Large/Small hand friendliness
3: Keys Hard to Reach
4: WASD Keys Unmarked
5: Keys Hard to Press
6: Thumbstick Hard to Press
7: Thumbstick "loose" Feeling
8: Thumbstick not Analog
9: Thorny Thumbstick
10: Weak Game-recognition
11: Installation/Stability Issues
12: No In-game Profile-switching
13: LCD Weaknesses
14: Only One Brightness Level
15: Short Cord
16: Learning Curve
17: Size
Conclusion

1) Comfort
First thing I hear a lot about is ergonomics. People say the joystick is in a "cramped" or "alien" position, and act like your thumb is going to snap off after five minutes of play time. They have no leg to stand on as far as I'm concerned. True, your thumb will not be resting on the side like a mouse, but this isn't a mouse, and it's not the N52, and yet, somehow, it feels perfectly comfortable to me.

2) Large/Small Hands
Alongside ergonomic complaints I've read a number of people saying the G13 "isn't made for large hands" or "isn't made for small hands." Evidently it was only made for medium-sized hands. I have huge hands, and I consider that my main advantage when using this board. Small hands I can see being a handicap, but I don't know for sure. If anything, this was made for big hands.

3) Keys Hard to Reach
In line with the above, many people say that the keys can be hard to reach. Well, first off, if you're getting a gameboard with a monstrous 20+ keys to press, some of them are just necessarily going to be further away than others. The only keys I have found took some practice to get to were the far left and bottom row keys since these are accessed by your pinky finger snaking way on out there. However, all the keys are so well defined that they take very little practice getting used to. Even before memorizing them you can quickly feel your way around due to their excellently clear demarcations. You can see that from the picture. Also, you can hear your fingers feeling across each key, if you listen carefully, so you have auditory cues on top of tactile ones as to where the keys are relative to your fingers. In short, I have never, ever, once gotten lost on this thing despite its vast array of keys.

4) WASD Keys Unmarked
Another key-related complaint is that the central "WASD" keys have no bumps on them to find them easily. This is extremely misleading. No, they don't have bumps, what they have are indentations for your fingertips. Thus, even if you WERE blind and couldn't see their clear, glowing labels your fingertips would slip into them almost without you knowing it. And, no, they aren't labeled, "W" "A" "S" and "D" firstly because they don't have to be mapped to those keys and secondly because, as I said just now, they have indentations clearly setting them apart from the other keys.

5) Keys Hard to Press
Also, people have said that the keys are hard to press. That's a real jaw-dropper. Unless you have some dehibilitating, degenerative, terminal finger-disease you will quickly discover that these keys are some of the most comfortable, responsive, even satisfying buttons you have ever pressed. And by "satisfying" I mean, whenever you press one your finger will go down with a nice, rich feel and a glorious "tap" sound will emerge. The depth of the keys simply defines them for your fingers to find their way around more easily and in no way affects their responsiveness. It is not at all like one of ye olde timey keyboards that you had to mash down on to get anything going.

6) Thumbstick Hard to Press
Another criticism you will find commonly thrown at this thing is that the joystick is hard to press down. I agree with these points. The joystick is extremely hard to press down. About the only thing I would use it for were switching between walking/running modes or following someone, stuff you don't do all the time.

7) Thumbstick "loose" Feeling
I've heard it said that the joystick is kind of floppy and cheap feeling. That is entirely subjective. Yes, it is very easy to push around, but I never would have thought of it as "floppy" or "cheap" without hearing it.

8) Thumstick not Analog
Honestly I'm not sure exactly what this means, but I have read the thread on the Logitech forums on this topic and they released a patch that enables you to put the joystick in "joystick mode" which, I presume, was the solution since nobody posted about it after that.

9) Thorny Thumbstick
My main complaint with the thumbstick is that it is just not comfortable. If you look carefully you will see it is shaped like a little tower. Correct that impression, it is shaped like a thorn and feels like it, too. You can't really control it from above like a console stick, and it does take getting used to for this reason. BUT it is entirely worth it to be able to move just with your thumb and free up all your other fingers and mouse for actions and targeting and so forth.

10) Weak Game-recognition
Lots of people are having trouble getting it recognize games and give them an automatic key mapping for their games. This is true. It has yet to find one game on my computer. BUT, the one game it did find provided an absolutely ludicrous mapping setup. So basically, my question is, why would want it to automatically map game for you? As far as I'm concerned automatic keymapping is a silly idea in the first place. Assigning your own keys the way you want them is the best way to learn what all your keys are mapped to and ensuring that you can play the way that is most efficient for you. Everybody will want slightly different mappings.

11) Installation/Stability Issues
Another problem people are having is just getting the thing to install and remember profiles. Most of these people are using Mac systems, which I don't use, so you should probably be concerned if you are trying to install this on a mac. The people with Windows OSs that complain about the software must just have had very little experience with anything computer related. I found, and the majority of reviewers I've read, the software to be extremely intuitive and easy to use. You select the key you want, you tell what you want it to do, you click okay, you're done. Macros are fantasticaly easy as well. As for losing profiles and such, I have had no problems whatsoever. I make a profile, I map it, and it's there whenever I want it from then on.

12) No In-game Profile-switching
One guy mentioned that he wanted to switch profiles in-game but couldn't. First off, you've got THREE instantly switchable key maps for EVERY profile you make using the above-top-row keys just below the LCD. True, you will not be using these on the fly and will probably (*gasp*) have to look at them to switch, but if anybody needs more than 3 sets of 22 keys for any given game, they have something set up entirely wrong. I never need any more than the first set of 22 keys.

13) LCD Weaknesses
Speaking of the LCD, lots of people have complaints aimed at that. Some people can't get it working, some say it's too small, some say it's just useless, some say it's not bright enough, some say they can't see it at certain angles, and some even say it's too bright (as I remember). My experience is this: yes, it's gimicky, but it has it's uses and works well at what it does. What does it do? Pretty much anything. All the applets that were written for the G15 LCD will work with the G13. You can do anything from manage music to display in-game vitals (the latter of which seems super-pointless to me, but the LCD likes to do it automatically anyway). I use it for two things, mainly: keeping track of the time and monitoring my internals (of my PC, not my biological ones...). I found the screen very easily viewable for both these purposes and except for my GPU internals (for which I had to get an applet) CPU, RAM, and clock applets came with the device.

14) Only One Brightness Level
Some people complain that there's only one brightness setting for the keys, but, honestly, why would want more when the one it has does its job perfectly. I can see every key clearly and at a glance. Why would I want to start screwing around with it myself? I would, in all probability, simply get haywired and go back to the default anyway. It's like messing with the gamma/brightness/contrast settings in games. You end up just wanting to switch back to the defaults in the end.

15) Short Cord
I read one reivewer who said the thing has a "cripplingly short cord." Obviously he was trying to play at a "cripplingly long distance" from his computer. The cord has got be at least five feet long. It's more than enough to comfortably play it on the left of your monitor with the computer set on the right side of your desk.

16) Learning Curve
The final, and most legitimate, criticism I've heard is that the G13 has a learning curve, and I agree, basically. It does have a learning curve. The key-rows are lined up with one another, not staggered wildly like on a keyboard, and you do have to memorize which keys do what (which I why I recommend setting up all key-mappings yourself from scratch rather than use the silly pre-made ones). However, this learning curve depends entirely on the individual. For me, the learning curve was very mild, but it may take longer for others. I can't speak for them. What I can vouch for (and what you will find said in other reviews) is that once you get used to it, the G13 becomes second nature. At this point, I've almost entirely forgotten that I'm using controllers at all. It all just comes instinctively after a few hours, and then you start simply putting your will in action fluidly, effortlessly, and continuously.

17) Size
A number of people have mentioned that the G13 takes up a lot of desk space. Yes, it does have a hearty footprint. About the size of a size-10 shoe I'd say, but nobody has mentioned yet that it takes up way less room than a keyboard. A G13/mouse combo is infinitely more portable than a keyboard/mouse combo. Now, you may say, "I still need my keyboard for chatting, so what we're really talking about is a G13/keyboard/mouse combo." Yes and no. Because your keyboard is only used for chatting, it no longer needs to be instantly accessible. In my case, I now have the keyboard up on the desk while I lounge back like a console-gamer in my chair with my keyboard-tray removed from my desk and sitting across my lap comfortably holding my G13 on the left and my mouse on the right. When I need to chat, I simply lean forward and type my message real quick and then flop back in my chair and keep playing. I could never do that with a mouse and keyboard because, first of all, my hand would have to be cramped up in front of my stomach to work the keyboard right and second, my lap-desk would have to be skewed way off to the right to get the mouse out far enough to be in a usable position. With the G13 and mouse my hands just rest easily to my right and left. If I weren't killing things I would probably fall asleep it's so cozy.


Conclusion:
So, is it worth 80 bucks? No. Is it worth 50? Maybe. It really depends on what you do and how much of it you do. If you are a hardcore MMO-er, then I would say it's worth it absolutely. Otherwise, do what I did: wait for it to go on sale and buy it with the gift card you got last Christmas. The G13 has totally changed the way I game. I no longer feel like I'm "manipulating" anything. I feel like I'm playing the piano and the game is responding to my every whim. I'm virtually unconscious of my controls now, they are "transparent" if you will.

When I saw the G13 on Amazon, I was VERY excited, as Logitech tends to execute well and have strong ergonomics, all the way back to the original Mouseman Wheel which revolutionized mice and to this day has not been matched in comfort. Or the Cyberman 2 which is legendary among those who owned one (or had to play against someone who owned one). I was in the midst of getting sucked back into WoW, and decided to investigate the current crop of input devices to see if I could improve on my nearly worn out Nostromo n52 and Logitech MX Revolution.

The package arrived, I installed the lastest software, bound my keys and was off. Right off the bat I knew this device was horribly flawed. It simply does not work ergonomically. Basically, it's way too flat and doesn't conform to the natural shape of the hand. Because of this, the thumb stick is awkward to use, and pressing different keys will tend to either move your hand from a proper rest position, or require many muscles working in conjunction to keep your position which ends up contorting the shape of your hand and leading to discomfort and muscle stress.

Now many readers are probably thinking, "What the hell is this guy talking about, he's just being an overly picky wuss." Now believe me, I would LOVE to love this device. I've been using an n52 for years, and despite its flaws (not enough buttons, horrible software, unusable shift modes), still love it and have even bought them for friends. I love my MX Revolution even though that it is not quite as comfortable as some mice and has low dpi for gaming. I use the best products available, and learn to work around their flaws. But quite simply, you CAN NOT work around ergonomics. Trying to do so overly stresses one's finger and wrist muscles and puts one at risk for RSI which is NOT NOT NOT A GOOD THING TO DO.

Now, if you think I am exaggerating the ergonomic failures of this device, put your hand on your mouse and look at it. Your thumb is probably rotated 90 degrees in relation to the rest of your fingers, so that if you closed your hand your thumb would curl under your fingers. This is a feature known as opposable thumbs. Pick your hand off the mouse and hold it in front of you while resting all your fingers and thumb, it retains the same basic shape as when on your mouse. Pretend to hold a modern gamepad, the hand shape is the same but with your wrists turned.

Now look at the picture of the G13. In order to use the thumb stick, you either have to put your thumb on it sideways which makes it hard to control as your thumb has to move unnaturally to push the stick forward / back, or rotate your thumb flat in relation to the rest of your fingers. Pretend to put your hand on the G13 with your thumb flat on the stick. Your hand will naturally want to two things, open up a bit, and rotate so that your pinky is lower than your index finger. Look at the g13 again... the keyboard section is totally flat, so you have to reverse the natural rotation by using your muscles to reshape your hand. Not only is this uncomfortable and stressful to your hand, but it makes it harder to use the keys because your muscles are already engaged in holding position. hitting anything other than the 'home' keys requires many muscles working in conjunction, putting further stress on your hand and deceasing your speed and accuracy.

YES, bad ergonomics will decrease your gaming performance. A lot, compared to a similar device with good ergonomics.

On top of this, the thumb stick has quite a long throw, which makes it suboptimal for use as a digital input (eg: WASD, or ESDF). If you're using it as analog (which I understand is currently unsupported officially but will be in a future driver version) it would be nice though.

On the plus side, the Logitech software is excellent, as usual. A few steps beyond where is was a couple years ago. The backlighting and LCD panel are actually much cooler than I thought they would be, and add a nice fun / pizazz factor that is pleasing. There are plenty of buttons on the device, and they are laid out in a manner that makes sense, despite the flatness of the keypad. And it looks cool, seems solidly built, and does not slip around.

However, I cannot recommend this device to anyone who is going to use the stick. Yes, there are many 5 star ratings on this, despite it's shortcomings. Many of these reviewers are using a 'gameboard' for the first time and haven't tried better ones. Many others aren't using the stick. If you aren't using the stick, what is the point of a device like this? Using your thumb for movement frees up all your fingers for actions. If you're going to use the keys for WASD / ESDF you're better off getting the best keyboard you can find. Some reviewers say, "you have to get used to it." Of course this is true of any input device, but you should not have to get used to ergonomics. When people first use a mouse they have to get used to the input controls, but they don't say "Ouch, my hand is uncomfortable in this position." Getting used to hand discomfort is dangerous as it leads to RSI, as well as lowering your gaming performance as you are constantly fighting the non-natural hand shape.

This device has TONS of potential, and it is great to see the big guns of Logitech get into this market. I tried on and off for weeks to like the G13, however its flaws are too deep and sink this first offering. Hopefully down the road Logitech releases a new version and this device causes Belkin / Saitek to step up their product line. But for now, steer clear of the G13. The n52 with third party driver software or simple keybindings is the better choice.

-- My Current Setup --
Logitech MX Revolution Cordless Laser Mouse (Black)
Belkin n52te Tournament Edition SpeedPad
Microsoft Natural Ergo Keyboard 4000

For gaming I set the MX Revolution thumb forward / back / press to hold Shift / Ctrl / Alt, which multiplies the available functions on the n52. It is a very strong, comfortable setup that gives me quick access to many, many actions without resorting to the n52's horrible 'shift modes'. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking these up.

Logitech stands out in a sea of rebranded Chinese knockoffs as a bona fide design firm. In my eyes, they are the Apple of the accessory market.

I adore my VX and MX Revolution mice, their flywheel was a genius move and I cannot imagine life without it. I see Logitech's industrial design is very Porsche-like, following the Porsche dictum of "form follows function".

This said, I have just spent my first week with their new G13 gamepad, and I think Logitech may have raised their high bar for design. This is one sexy beast, to be sure.

My interest in this piece was specifically for World of Warcraft. I don't consider myself a serious gamer, as I don't play or even really recognize a lot of the titles that the G13 supports. I however became a Warcraft fan since my son convinced me to open an account and go questing with him. A great family activity, and after three years we are a 3 account family and travel Azeroth a few hours each week as a happy pack.

My professional background is technology design and engineering, as well as a Mac programmer and software interface designer.

The past year or so I had been using a Belkin Nostromo N52. I bought the device about 3 years ago, but could not use it successfully because the Belkin Mac drivers never worked correctly. I discovered ControllerMate, a Mac programming utility through a friend about a year ago. It is a superb, professional piece of software, and with it, I had the old N52 jumping through Warcraft hoops. I was pretty happy with the N52 in this config, but always open for a better solution. I saw a picture of the G13 about a month ago, spotted Mac compatibility in a gaming device, no less, and I am off to Logitech site to see more.

One of the great things about Logitech is that when they say one of their products supports the Mac, they actually have Mac programmers to write real software that looks and performs up to the expectation of a veteran Mac user. The great majority of gaming companies and devices provide little or no support, or have a cursory piece of poorly-designed ported Windows software that make the product much less functional on the Mac.

In a word, the G13 piece is stunning. I don't know where to start, except to say that the initial tactile experience with the unit exceeded my high expectations from previous reviewers and looking at photos.

First of all, the unit is hefty, containing a metal weight embedded in the upper half of the unit. In photos, that large area that says G13 on the bottom is actually a big chunk of metal. Couple this heft with a number of large rubber feet, and the G13 literally become a component of the surface you place it on, imparting an incredibly solid feel. On the top of the unit, the heel of your left hand rests on a firmly-padded textured rubber surface. It has a heavily grained leather-like feel to it, providing a very comfortable no-slip anchor point for your hand.

The unit is fairly large, but I have big hands and it was just perfect for me. The arc shape mirrors the natural curve of my relaxed hand. People with smaller hands may feel differently, but I cannot comment on that.

From a functional/comfort perspective, after about an hour of figuring out a basic config I liked (comes with a Warcraft profile, but I wanted it a bit different), I played 3 hours of WoW and suffered no fatigue at all. I look forward to making the perfect config for me over time.

Digging a bit deeper, there are 22 numbered backlit keys on the main board (G1-G22), with cup shapes molded into the reverse T movement keys (WASD equiv.) so you can home in your position without looking. There is a dedicated button to control the display and key backlighting, a small joystick that fits under my thumb and has 3 additional buttons, one to the left and bottom, and another is a press on the top of the stick. It also has 4 softkeys for the applets that run in the display, and another button to cycle through the applets. The G13 comes with 6 applets, although only 4 work on its monochrome display. They cycle between displaying CPU & RAM usage, Time/date, and a countdown/stopwatch time controlled by the softkeys. There are 3rd party websites like G15mods.com that have a growing library or compatible applets, plus the G13 comes with an SDK to develop your own if you are so inclined.

Applications like World of Warcraft that have G13 support, will feed their applet into the G13 display upon opening or selecting the app. As of this writing, the Warcraft applet is only available in the PTR beta version, that should be released in a couple of weeks or so.

Having 3 banks of 22 keys is a lot, but Logitech made a cool way to know where you are at a glance. The three shifted banks can change the color of the backlighting and the display to any color you select. I chose blue for general operation, red for raiding and green for farming. Each set has its own optimized button functions.

There is also a button for quick macro recording, simply hit it, select a G key or button to assign it to, do whatever you want on your keyboard, hit the Quick Macro again, and you have a new macro. Works great.
Another unique feature is that your profiles and macros can be stored in the G13's own internal memory, so you can take all you commands with you to another machine.

I predict this will be a very popular item once folks hear about it. Buy with confidence.

Pros -
Very Comfortable, and it is one sexy beast, style-wise.

I love the color selectable backlighting on the keys and display

Instant one dedicated button macro recording is superb.

The G13 can store game profiles in the unit itself, so you can take your macros and profiles to another computer by just plugging in your pad.

Heavy and solid, feels like it is bolted to the desk.

Comes with a Mac SDK for programming your own applications for the display.


Cons, and I feel rather petty here given how much I like the piece...

Mac software requires a download, PC comes on a CD.

The button that is activated by pushing the top of the joystick requires too much effort, and is not easy to use.

Some may complain at the $80 price tag, I found it an excellent value, really nothing else like it when you understand its sophistication.

Would like a .pdf manual, or printed...but that is just me. The online help and tutorials are detailed and well done.

As a sometimes semi-addicted World of Warcraft player, I'm always interested in peripherals that will enhance my gameplay. For me, it's all about comfort - I can play for hours at a time, and anything that makes that time more enjoyable is all good. Besides, as much as I love my WOW, carpal tunnel syndrome seems like a high price to pay for playing a game.

A year ago, before there was such a thing as a Logitech G13, I purchased the [[ASIN:B000FRW8KS Fang Gamepad by Ideazon]. I liked the basic design. It let me navigate with its dedicated movement buttons, putting my left hand away from the cramped confines of the keyboard. Unfortunately, the overall feel of the Fang was cheap and plasticky. It's very lightweight, which isn't a great quality in a desktop device - it tended to slide around when the action got heated.

Worse, the Fang, like almost all of Ideazon's products, don't offer out-of-the-box computability with Macs. While my system recognized the navigation buttons as W,A,S,D equivalents, there was no way to assign functions to the other buttons. A clever third-party program, ControllerMate, will allow you to map those buttons, but it's a tough program to learn and adds $15 to the cost.

When the Logitech G13 came out, I decided to try it as a replacement for the Fang. I'm glad I did. The G13 isn't inexpensive, but it's one of those rare computer peripherals where, when you get your hands on it, you feel you've gotten your money's worth. It's an undeniably solid piece of equipment that's designed for serious gameplay. It's angled design makes for incredibly comfortable operation, even on the longest quests or battlefields.

Best of all, it offers native Mac compatibility. The macro writer is intuitive and easy to use. The G13 knows when you're playing WOW, so it automatically loads the appropriate (customizable) profile to get the most out of the game. I understand there are built in profiles for other games too, but WOW sucks enough of my time that I haven't had a chance to try them out.

Two features of the G13 that I haven't found as useful as I'd anticipated are the LCD and the joystick controller. While the LCD displays stats that are related to WOW, I find they're not informative enough to justify my taking my eyes off the computer screen. The small joystick, on the bottom left, looked like it would be a great way to move around, but in practice, I found it a little awkward. Maybe I'm just used to the W,A,S,D metaphor, but I just set the keys in the middle of the G13 to correspond to those keys and it's been great.

In closing, the G13 is an outstandingly made and designed gamepad that will your improve your game and save your wrists. While you might not need or use or its bells and whistles, its a serious device you can grow into. Best of all, in a market that is rarely inclusive of the Mac OS, the G13 plays beautifully with those of who'd much rather brave the Wrath of the Lich King than the Wrath of Windows.

Scott Sherman, author, Lambda Literary Award Winning Best Gay Mystery, 2009, First You Fall: A Kevin Connor Mystery

4.5 stars for a nearly perfect device.

I initially purchased the g13 for Logitech's customer support over Belkin/Razor's support for their n52te. However, I soon discovered that many features of the g13 are much better than what the n52 had or what the n52te will ever have.

Quick summary

pros:
- nicer ergnomic feel
- more buttons
- thumbstick feels more natural over dpad for movement
- lua scripting for more complex macros / button layout behavior
- good support (check out their forums 'g series keyboard')
- software is easy to use
- LCD screen
- customizable color lit keys

cons:
- currently, thumbstick is not true analog
- thumbstick "head" could be a little bigger
- left hand only
- some buttons are hard to reach when using thumbstick for movement

Detailed review

I've been debating on getting the g13 for past month or so once I discovered it's presence when I was researching the n52te. At first, the button layout and the ergonomic "appearance" did not seem as comfortable as the n52 that I owned. Of course, the store did not have one on display so I could not get a true feeling for it until I actually purchased it and brought it home.

Oh my! I am surprised at how comfortable this device is! It has far exceeded my expectations as far as comfort goes. I have read that the thumbstick is a little small and gets extremely uncomfortable with long gaming sessions, but I find that it is more comfortable than using the dpad on the n52 for extended periods of time. I do agree that the head of the thumbstick could be a little bigger, but you do get accustomed to it. For the brave, however, websites exist which show modification of the device to use a xbox / ps2 thumbstick at the expense of your 3-year warranty.

What I don't like about the n52 (and I didn't realize it at the time) was that the "hump" that's supposed to provide support for your palm is really a hindrance to it (for those who have small to average hands). The g13 does not have that support "hump" and the palm rest is still very comfortable and my hands are average size.

The extra buttons (over the n52) are a nicety, but not absolutely necessary. Nevertheless, my hand rarely leaves the g13 since the extra buttons map to more functions in game. I normally use the thumbstick for movement and because of this, it's difficult to use the top-left button. However, I doubt anyone would map a regularly used action to that button while they're moving.

At first, I thought the LCD would be nothing more than a gimmick, but it is quite useful for showing in-game stats or the healthiness of your computer while in game. A couple of the default apps that the LCD uses range from less useful (RSS reader) to useful (clock, stopwatch, system performance).

Getting used to the g13 doesn't take very long if you are already using the n52. For the most part, if the n52 was invaluable to the game you are playing, then the g13 will be invaluable to the same game (MMORPG, RTS). In the games where the n52 didn't help much (FPS mostly), the g13 helped a little. The thumbstick felt more natural to move, but I still found myself going back to the keyboard, maybe I just need more time to adjust. Also, the pending analog joystick fix should help for FPS games that support it.

I went ahead and downloaded the software from Logitech's website rather than risk using the potentially outdated softare that came with the g13. The software is very intuitive for those that are familiar with the n52's software. The neatest feature that I discovered was associating a new profile to a game. You can either select the executable manually or allow the g13 to do it for you.

This process for having the g13 do it was simple:
1. create the new profile and name it
2. select the second option for detecting game.
3. launch the game
4. the g13's lcd menu will ask you to push one of the lcd buttons when your game is running

Also, the profiles you create can be stored in the g13's onboard memory.

Before I heard of the g13, I was a devoted n52 supporter and I really believed that the n52 could not be beat. Because the n52 is no longer in production, I was sure that my next purchase was the n52te. However, upon doing my research with the n52te, I decided not to purchase it and go with the g13 for one reason: customer support. A quick visit to the respective forums for the n52te and g13 will show who cares more about your money and your gaming experience. In doing so, Logitech has set the bar for gaming boards.

tl;dr:

Pros:
Ergonomic
Comfortable to use
Painless to setup, but make take a little time to get everything "just right"
Gamepanel is bright
Thumbstick and thumb keys are in easy reach
Keys feel high-quality
Wrist rest grips hand securely
Heavy and grips desk, won't slide around

Cons:
Only one brightness setting on the Gamepanel and keys (on or off)
Thumbstick is very difficult to press down, and you'll probably tilt the stick doing so
Spacebar key could be placed a bit more conveniently, but not that big of a deal



Just got this guy in yesterday, and played with it in an FPS and in WoW for most of the day yesterday and this morning.

Ergonomics: The first thing I noticed was, "wow, this is kinda big. And heavy." But once I laid it on my desk and put my hand on it, it clicked. The large keys go a long way to making this extremely comfortable to use. My n52 had smaller (and fewer) keys. The sloped design of the keys contour my hand perfectly. The wrist-rest isn't so much a "rest" as it is a "grip"... it's comfortable, but the main function of it seems to be to grip your palm and not let go. It's very nice. A problem I always had with my n52 speedpad's hard plastic wrist rest was that my hand could tend to slide around. Not with this.

To go back to the keys a second, the keys feel VERY nice. They're full keyboard quality, though my G15 keyboard's keys feel slightly higher quality. Still head and shoulders away from what I was expecting. They're logitech-quality keys that you would expect to find on a keyboard. Some of the keys on the extreme right are a bit of a stretch to reach, I only bound not-often-used functions to those keys. The extreme top-left keys are easier to reach because your pinky is on that side and you don't have to take your index finger off of what would be the "D" key (in a WSAD setup) to reach them. The bottom-right key on the keypad section is supposed to emulate the spacebar, but it's a little more difficult to reach than a traditional spacebar. Not by much though. I thought it was slightly awkward at first tucking my thumb in to reach it, but after using it a few hours I didn't pay it any attention. Just part of the learning curve, I suppose.

The thumbstick was the thing about this that I was most apprehensive about. Here's how I feel: The thumbstick is in a good location, and is very springy and solid-feeling. However I wouldn't use it for movement (camera, character, or otherwise). Instead, I use it like a 4-way hat-switch like you'd find on a flightstick. Just something to flick your thumb against when you need to do something quickly. There is a button when you press the stick down, but holy mother of God... it's very difficult to push down, and you will almost invariably tilt the stick in the process and activate whatever you bound to that direction.

My thumb most naturally rests against the large button to the left of the stick. Both of these buttons near the thumbstick are very easy to reach, and feel very secure pressing them down, with a satisfying "click", like a mouse key, only with more key travel.

Screen: The screen is almost identical to the 2nd rev G15's, however in this case you can change the backlighting to any color you want (the keys as well). The screen is brighter than the G15's, but unfortunately it only has 2 settings; backlit or off. I thought this was a major oversight, as I don't want it full brightness all the time, like in a darkened room. It's not that huge of a deal because since it's off to the left, the screen isn't shining directly in your face. If this were my keyboard I was reviewing, I'd care a bit more about this. I think this is the device's only glaring flaw. The screen sits at a good angle on my desk, though I wish I had the option to adjust it slightly more up, or at least have the option to prop the entire pad up on little feet like you'd find on a keyboard, but I digress. In the end it's very bright, very legible. One cool thing is that you can make the backlighting a different color for every memory mode (of which there are 3).

For my GamePanel setup, I keep game-related information on the G15 keyboard and I keep system utility information on the G13's screen. Since it sits off to the left, you won't want to be looking at it very often during gameplay, however a G15 sitting directly under your screen is easy enough to glance down at. But whenever I say, "Huh, this framerate is kinda sluggish, what does my RAM load look like right now? How is my CPU doing?", I can look over and see for myself without alt-tabbing to look at a system diagnostic utility. Very, very convenient. (I recommend SirReal's gamepanel app for this purpose. You can find it on [...])

Ze Software: Not much to say about this. It's identical to the G15's software, and lives in the same management utility. You can record macros, keystrokes, etc. I've only used mine to bind to specific keyboard keys, and I haven't played with macros any yet, so I have no experience there.

I tried one FPS, and basically had to build a profile for it. Mapped the WSAD keys, the R key for reload, etc. Got it set up quickly and was able to play very easily.

Ahh, but where this shines is in the MMO space. It allowed me to play WoW almost immediately after plugging it in, already having mapped the WSAD keys for me, and the top row of keys corresponded to 1 through 5 I believe. However this didn't last long, as I spent the time to completely reconfigure the key bindings, and used an action-bar add-on (Dominos) to build an onscreen set of action bars that are physically laid out like the keys on this pad. It's worked incredibly well so far. I already feel like I have 3x the buttons underneath my fingertips. In the past, if the hotkey wasn't on number 1 through 5, it basically didn't get used, or I clicked on it manually. It wasn't convenient for my finger to reach it. And so many times I've said to myself, "Now where did I stick that Concussive Shot button?", or worse, "I'm about to fall to my death, where did I put my parachute cloak button?" And by the time I find it and click on it, it's too late. Now, it feels like /everything/ is under my fingers in easy reach.

Overall, I'm extremely impressed. It's not perfect, but in the world of gamepads for the PC, this is as close to perfect as you're going to get.

It takes a bit to warm up to any new gaming device that substantially changes the way you play a game and the G13 Advanced Gameboard is no different. In some ways, it provides a steeper learning curve simply because, when you first get into it, it's not user-friendly.

The problem with the G13 is the software. It's terrible. It's also completely necessary. The way the device works is that the software allows you to set up profiles for your games; ostensibly, this allows you to have different key bindings for each game. The program comes packaged with profiles for a ton of games and each profile that's mirrored with a game has standard key bindings. The software even comes with a auto-search command that will locates all of the available games on your PC and assign the correct standard profile to them.

Unfortunately for me, and for a lot of users I discovered, the auto-search function doesn't always locate your games. In my case, it only discovered Lord of the Rings Online, not Bioshock, Call of Duty, Guild Wars or any of my Steam games. I've seen a variety of people posting their thoughts as to why this is, with most of them hanging onto the idea that if you have games saved on a different hard drive than the normal C drive it won't locate them. That wasn't the case for me, as LoTRO is on the same drive as the rest of my games (the A drive) and it found LoTRO but nothing else. You can manually attach a profile to a game by locating the .exe file, which I had to do for each game, and the problems kind of continued.

Compounding this, the software doesn't load all of the available profiles. This is supposed to be a nicety because you won't have an ungainly list of profiles when you want only a few. However, if the system doesn't locate the game file, it doesn't load the profiles, thereby making you go the long way in setting up a profile/key mapping from scratch. While LoTRO was a cinch to set up and make changes the key mappings, every other game caused me to start from ground zero which can be a time-consuming prospect if you want to get it just right and remember which keys you need.

I thought about updating my software, and it includes an "update now" button. Unfortunately, pressing that told me I had no available updates, which was false I discovered later. I went online searching for profiles because I didn't have any loaded except for LoTRO and discovered a patch on the Logitech website for the device. This is another annoyance. If you're going to offer the awesome "update now" function, why wouldn't you have it, you know, update now?

Once you tire of the software and try the device you might be put off. I know I was. It took awhile for me to be used to it, but give it a week and you'll never want to go back. I'm in love with the actual hardware. It's suitably ramped for comfort; the cushioned pad to rest your wrist on is fantastic, the incline is perfect and the buttons are nicely set apart for easy access. I love the little joystick on the side as it gives me the feel of a console controller for movement, the multitude of keys and the mouse for the PC feel. I love it and use it for both MMOs and FPSs.

Additionally, you can set up a few profiles for each game. So if you'd want to play the game differently, depending on the character/class you're playing, you can do so. The keys have back lighting, which is nice, and you can set pretty much any color (using a color palette) you'd desire for each of the profiles. Then there's the LCD screen that can show you a variety of different things. It tells me the song and artist I'm listening to, RSS feeds of news items of interest, a timer/cooldown counter or, in the case of LoTRO, your health/power and other pertinent information. It's kind of a cool little feature.

To put it succinctly: I love the hardware, I dislike the software. If the software did as it was supposed to (auto-search for games, update when it should) and was easier to manuever in, it wouldn't be so bad. But as it is, it's just an annoyance that gets in the way of what really shines. This is a nice piece of equipment. It's changed the way I play games and I will never go back to just using the keyboard.

As a final example of the dichotomy between the two, I went from playing LoTRO to Guild Wars (which the software couldn't locate). I started putting in keys by hand for it when I just decided against it due to the length of time it was taking and went back to the keyboard. As I was playing, I kept wishing for the joystick and the nicely laid out keys, but I didn't have the time last night to fully get the keys to my liking. After playing only with the G13 for almost a month, I missed it more than anything, but the software kept getting in my way.

So...please, Logitech...do something good with that software.

The main reason I bought the G13 was because I kept reading how much faster you could move your avatar with the thumb joystick. I also liked that it had a lot of buttons and appeared to have a good ergonomic design. Also I would be able to use my computer keyboard less, and not wear out a few keys like I've done with previous ones.

After using it for a year, I am very happy with the purchase. The thumb joystick is not that hard to learn to use, and it soon becomes quite natural. By moving with your thumb, you actually free up the equivalent of 4 buttons (WASD) that you can bind abilities to. Also, you CAN move faster, rather you can circle faster. In thinking about it, it's because you can move on the diagonal very easily. You COULD do this with keys, by pushing AW or WD for example, but that's awkward, and makes it hard to use abilities. As for the ergonomics, it is very comfortable for my hand, and I have no complaints there. It also has some weight to it, which is nice, as it doesn't slide around.

Here are some things that you will have to deal with if you buy the G13. None of these are major issues, but you just need to be prepared for them. The biggest one is that you will no longer have a correspondence between the label of the key that you press and the label of the key that is bound in the game. For example, in a typical MMO, you would bind, say, button 1 of action bar 1 to letter B of the keyboard, then drag an ability to this button; with the G13 you will then bind a G key to letter B. This will be no problem when you create a character with the G13 installed, the macroing of the G keys will be done a few at a time as you level, and you will be able to keep track of what is what. But it will be quite a chore to start using the G13 with a fully leveled character. It will be like coming back to the game and having to re-learn all your keybindings. It has helped me to sketch out a diagram of the G13 layout on a piece of paper and note which key is bound to which for each game I play.

In some games, if you double tap a movement key, you might jump or dodge in that direction. Age of Conan for example. The thumstick is not so good at doing this. (By the way, you don't have to use the thumbstick to move. You can still bind WASD to the G keys and use it that way.)

Remember you can bind the SHIFT key (or ALT or CTRL) to one of the G keys too, like G15, and use this key just like you use the SHIFT key on the keyboard. I didn't realize this at first.

The middle key does not have a little bump on it, I forget what that bump is called, but it lets you know your fingers are on the right keys without having to look down. I solved this by using a hot knife to make a little notch in the button. I first tried putting a piece of tape on it, which worked well for a while, until it began to slide off.

That's all.