19 of 22 people found the following review helpful:
3.0 out of 5 stars
Nice updates but suffers from large omissions, July 7, 2003
This review is from: Mage: The Ascension (Revised Edition) (Hardcover)
I resisted picking up a copy of Mage Revised even though I believe the Mage system is the best one in the World of Darkness. Mage 2nd Edition was so complete and well written that I didn't feel there was a need to get another main source book. What could White Wolf possibly do to improve on a book that was already so perfect? In an effort to keep up to date with the game I ordered a copy of Mage Revised and sat down with it.
Let's start off with some good things I found in the book. Much like Vampire Revised, the book was well written and a lot of the systems have been cleaned up. The Traditions each got a few more pages worth of descriptions, which was great. Each one had numerous subdivisions and they were discussed briefly, but concisely. There were a few changes in each Tradition but overall they remained the same. The magic systems were reworked extensively. The description of the spheres was detailed and easy to follow, for the most part. Most of the spheres remained the same with minor changes here and there. A lot of the more devastating effects have been toned down. Magical effects can be fine tuned by the mage by dividing successes on duration and effect intensities. Finally, the Technocratic Union was not painted as the antagonist. I felt this was a good move since it is really up to the storyteller and players to decide whom the antagonists are. Yes they can still be used as the monolithic [enemy] but the gray areas of good and bad have grown to encompass them.
Despite the many positive points used primarily to balance out Mages with the other denizens of the World of Darkness, there were also many problems with the book. One of the largest flaws was the lack of treatment of the Technocracy. The Technocracy had won the Ascension War but we got only two pages about it. Players and Storytellers will have to acquire the Guide to the Technocracy to flesh out this major faction of PC-compatible mages. Another large omission was information on the Umbra, Paradox Spirits, and Umbrood in general. This lack of information makes the Spirit sphere and possibly the Dreamspeakers somewhat PC-unfriendly. The metaplot had taken a front seat of the game. There was some dimensional storm that made piercing the Gauntlet dangerous and difficult, another blow to the Spirit Sphere. Most of the archmagi have been killed when the dimensional storm hit, which left most of the younger mages on Earth to fend for themselves with little experienced training. Doissetep and Concordia have been destroyed, but there was no information on exactly how these powerful strongholds went under. There was also the mention of some weird red star in the Umbra. I noticed this was mentioned in the Guide to the Technocracy, as well but there was little elaboration. Talismans and Devices were mentioned in the book but there was no information on how to make them.
Almost all of the omissions I mentioned above were discussed in depth in Mage 2nd Edition. Though the discussions were brief, they provided enough information for you to make up the rest of the information as you see fit. There was also less of a reliance on the metaplot, thus encouraging storytellers to weave any type of story they deemed appropriate. Though you can still do that, the metaplot has influenced many aspects of the game.
So is this book worthy of purchase? The answer is maybe. If you have Mage 2nd Edition, you probably don't need this book to run a good game. You can find a lot of the Revised systems in other core source books. If you are new to Mage than I strongly suggest you don't get this book unless you plan to purchase Guide to the Technocracy and the Book of the Worlds or the Infinite Tapestry. Get Mage 2nd Edition instead. So who should really consider getting this book? I would say people who want to keep up to date with the game and those who already have Mage 2nd Edition. Though a lot of the information was not new, I saw it more as an update to the existing system rather than a full replacement for 2nd Edition. It serves as an additional reference to the rules, which should clear up the sections that were unclear in 2nd Edition. Mage Revised wasn't a bad purchase for me because I had all of the supplements that adequately filled in all of the omitted information. But new storytellers should be aware that games that are run with only Mage Revised will be mostly limited to street-level survival games.
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9 of 10 people found the following review helpful:
3.0 out of 5 stars
Second Edition still reigns supreme., March 25, 2002
This review is from: Mage: The Ascension (Revised Edition) (Hardcover)
Mage, although being my favorite game, is very hard for starters to learn. The rules are complicated, and so is the setting. It has the highest potential for improvisation and abuse. Revised clears up many of these rules problems, but limits the story potential greatly.
Mage 2nd edition was a Universe spanning game. The revised edition seems to forget this. It makes the game very limited, and much less powered. The Technocracy (basically science wizards) has essentially won the war, and the Masters are trapped deep in the spirit world. This leaves only young mages around to fend for themselves, and teach an upcoming generation of mages the ropes. This serverely limits Mage in political games, and also in the spirit regions. The book neglects to mention most of these areas entirely. Especially the Digital Web.
Rule wise, this is all cleaned up. The damage system makes mages more fragile. Spheres are much better explained, and Paradox is finally something mages can fear! Gone are the days of shooting fireballs down mainstreet, and not caring about who gets hit. This servely limits power-gamers, but to what end? The story aspect of this game was largely weakend.
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6 of 6 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars
The best White Wolf has to offer..., November 18, 2005
This review is from: Mage: The Ascension (Revised Edition) (Hardcover)
Not quite sure why this revision of Mage: The Ascension scored such a low rating, this is possibly the best revision of the game available. The game is a complicated one, but if handled with creativity and drive one can easily master playing one of the greatest role playing games ever made.
Originally modeled after Ars Magica the role playing game, Mage is a tale about wizards fighting in the modern world. While it bears only some "Tradition" names in common with Ars Magica it holds its own as a solid and unique role playing game. These mages are not the pointy hat, robbed fellows you find in Dungeons & Dragons; the mages in Mage are average people with a unique ability to manipulate reality. The revised edition also brings to light an abstract thing called Paradox - reality's way of snapping back and harming the Mage for creating something out of the ordinary.
The revised edition of this game is truly remarkable and explains in detail how such things as Paradox and magic Spheres work (the mage's magic powers so to speak). Many have accused the role playing game of being too convoluted but the intelligent role player will - perhaps with some effort at first - be able to understand how Paradox works and describe it either in text or words depending on what type of RP game he or she is playing in (the same applies to Spheres).
Paradox for all intents and purposes isn't a straight forward thing, instead if the mage creates something out of the ordinary or botches on a magic role he suffers the number of paradox points mentioned in the box - this is, of course, all subject to change as the GM of a game is the final authority in what is considered "breaking the rules." Paradox is then explained. It isn't merely a force which "hurts" the mage; it is a plausible, almost coincidental occurrence which can render the mage in quite a bit of pain or... in some cases, dead. One major struggle then in mage is trying to make your magic seem like mere "coincidence" so as not to upset the forces of reality.
The magic Spheres covered in this book are excellent - in no other revision has the magic in Mage been given so much creativity - unlike any other role playing game you now have the chance to make up your own spells and enchantments. Perhaps alone worth the price of the book, the Spheres section goes over each and every magic Sphere in the game and gives you detailed descriptions of what each and every level does.
Fireballs from fire and earth shaking spells from earth? Not a chance, in this game you actually get to make your own spells - mixing Forces and Prime for instance to summon something out of the blue (the Prime Sphere, a flame for example) and propel it (a decent mastery in the Forces Sphere), which can essentially make a fireball (if you want to risk getting the effects of Paradox).
It goes without saying that this role playing game was not made for small table top groups, instead it is better played on a "World of Darkness" game online in which other players play humans, vampires, and werewolves among other things - a world in which seeming "normal" is very important. More importantly magic can be explained in lengthily prose as too can be explained the effects of Paradox whereas in a tabletop game this might be difficult.
I've read a number of complaints in reviews on how little Nephandi, Marauders and the Technocracy are covered. This is more than intentional and the reason for it should be a little more than obvious: with source books on the way, it goes without saying that White Wolf should leave quite a bit of information out. I'm /not/ a fan of this either, but Dungeons & Dragons releases books where you have to buy every single source book in order to keep up with the game, I figure White Wolf is ahead of the game by putting out a playable system every time they release a core book but require individuals to buy additional sourcebooks. (Many of the sourcebooks in D&D are also quite useless - as many D&D fans know but also know they serve as essential references with information intentionally left out of the campaign books. White Wolf's sourcebooks typically cover everything in good detail.)
As a GM in a number of White Wolf systems I'd have to suggest readers to disregard comments telling them not to pick up the revised edition of Mage as a starting point. Many of the essential game components, such as Paradox, Magic Spheres, botch rules, and other die rules are covered poorly in previous editions - while I mean no disrespect to reviewers who feel otherwise, revised is essential to play in mostly any Mage game (especially online).
Lastly one of the major complaints about this game system is that it describes the Technocracy as winning the Ascension War. If you have a problem with it, like most GMs you should create your own source material to give to players telling them of any plot/epic level changes you made. Again, everything in this game can be changed and quite easily (the effects of Paradox are not the result of the Technocracy mind you, they are instead the result of a mindset which humankind has developed... disbelieving magic, believing more in technology, a mindset which makes this game realistic).
A /substantial amount of creativity is needed on the part of the player./ It is warned at the beginning of the book that this core book should be used as a guideline only - skip that in Vampire: The Masquerade if you'd like, but in Mage it is essential for proper game play.
Describing things in depth creatively comes before any and all die rules when playing mage (if you dislike this idea than perhaps the game system isn't right for you, if you like it though, give the game a try). That being said this game cannot be played properly after simply reading over the book, it takes a long time of practice with writing descriptively or speaking descriptively should you venture to play it at a tabletop. The rewards of playing this game system are amazing though as you will be able to play something creative and unique with magical powers in a realistic world.
The only downside with the game is that it is difficult to consistently think of creative ways to play your Mage (something which is essential). While I'm sure this game will provide the you - the reader - with months of entertainment, it is possible for the enthusiasm to die down after a few years (whereas D&D games can be adapted and revised by GMs for years of Friday night game sessions... so it might be more trouble than it's worth).
Superb game all in all! In my opinion this is certainly one of the best and most creative games White Wolf has to offer!
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