Customer Reviews

Mage: The Ascension (Revised Edition)

5 star:		(13)
4 star:		(14)
3 star:		(5)
2 star:		(4)
1 star:		(8)

 

 

I resisted picking up a copy of Mage Revised even though I believe the Mage system is the best one in the World of Darkness. Mage 2nd Edition was so complete and well written that I didn't feel there was a need to get another main source book. What could White Wolf possibly do to improve on a book that was already so perfect? In an effort to keep up to date with the game I ordered a copy of Mage Revised and sat down with it.

Let's start off with some good things I found in the book. Much like Vampire Revised, the book was well written and a lot of the systems have been cleaned up. The Traditions each got a few more pages worth of descriptions, which was great. Each one had numerous subdivisions and they were discussed briefly, but concisely. There were a few changes in each Tradition but overall they remained the same. The magic systems were reworked extensively. The description of the spheres was detailed and easy to follow, for the most part. Most of the spheres remained the same with minor changes here and there. A lot of the more devastating effects have been toned down. Magical effects can be fine tuned by the mage by dividing successes on duration and effect intensities. Finally, the Technocratic Union was not painted as the antagonist. I felt this was a good move since it is really up to the storyteller and players to decide whom the antagonists are. Yes they can still be used as the monolithic [enemy] but the gray areas of good and bad have grown to encompass them.

Despite the many positive points used primarily to balance out Mages with the other denizens of the World of Darkness, there were also many problems with the book. One of the largest flaws was the lack of treatment of the Technocracy. The Technocracy had won the Ascension War but we got only two pages about it. Players and Storytellers will have to acquire the Guide to the Technocracy to flesh out this major faction of PC-compatible mages. Another large omission was information on the Umbra, Paradox Spirits, and Umbrood in general. This lack of information makes the Spirit sphere and possibly the Dreamspeakers somewhat PC-unfriendly. The metaplot had taken a front seat of the game. There was some dimensional storm that made piercing the Gauntlet dangerous and difficult, another blow to the Spirit Sphere. Most of the archmagi have been killed when the dimensional storm hit, which left most of the younger mages on Earth to fend for themselves with little experienced training. Doissetep and Concordia have been destroyed, but there was no information on exactly how these powerful strongholds went under. There was also the mention of some weird red star in the Umbra. I noticed this was mentioned in the Guide to the Technocracy, as well but there was little elaboration. Talismans and Devices were mentioned in the book but there was no information on how to make them.

Almost all of the omissions I mentioned above were discussed in depth in Mage 2nd Edition. Though the discussions were brief, they provided enough information for you to make up the rest of the information as you see fit. There was also less of a reliance on the metaplot, thus encouraging storytellers to weave any type of story they deemed appropriate. Though you can still do that, the metaplot has influenced many aspects of the game.

So is this book worthy of purchase? The answer is maybe. If you have Mage 2nd Edition, you probably don't need this book to run a good game. You can find a lot of the Revised systems in other core source books. If you are new to Mage than I strongly suggest you don't get this book unless you plan to purchase Guide to the Technocracy and the Book of the Worlds or the Infinite Tapestry. Get Mage 2nd Edition instead. So who should really consider getting this book? I would say people who want to keep up to date with the game and those who already have Mage 2nd Edition. Though a lot of the information was not new, I saw it more as an update to the existing system rather than a full replacement for 2nd Edition. It serves as an additional reference to the rules, which should clear up the sections that were unclear in 2nd Edition. Mage Revised wasn't a bad purchase for me because I had all of the supplements that adequately filled in all of the omitted information. But new storytellers should be aware that games that are run with only Mage Revised will be mostly limited to street-level survival games.

Mage, although being my favorite game, is very hard for starters to learn. The rules are complicated, and so is the setting. It has the highest potential for improvisation and abuse. Revised clears up many of these rules problems, but limits the story potential greatly.

Mage 2nd edition was a Universe spanning game. The revised edition seems to forget this. It makes the game very limited, and much less powered. The Technocracy (basically science wizards) has essentially won the war, and the Masters are trapped deep in the spirit world. This leaves only young mages around to fend for themselves, and teach an upcoming generation of mages the ropes. This serverely limits Mage in political games, and also in the spirit regions. The book neglects to mention most of these areas entirely. Especially the Digital Web.

Rule wise, this is all cleaned up. The damage system makes mages more fragile. Spheres are much better explained, and Paradox is finally something mages can fear! Gone are the days of shooting fireballs down mainstreet, and not caring about who gets hit. This servely limits power-gamers, but to what end? The story aspect of this game was largely weakend.

Not quite sure why this revision of Mage: The Ascension scored such a low rating, this is possibly the best revision of the game available. The game is a complicated one, but if handled with creativity and drive one can easily master playing one of the greatest role playing games ever made.

Originally modeled after Ars Magica the role playing game, Mage is a tale about wizards fighting in the modern world. While it bears only some "Tradition" names in common with Ars Magica it holds its own as a solid and unique role playing game. These mages are not the pointy hat, robbed fellows you find in Dungeons & Dragons; the mages in Mage are average people with a unique ability to manipulate reality. The revised edition also brings to light an abstract thing called Paradox - reality's way of snapping back and harming the Mage for creating something out of the ordinary.

The revised edition of this game is truly remarkable and explains in detail how such things as Paradox and magic Spheres work (the mage's magic powers so to speak). Many have accused the role playing game of being too convoluted but the intelligent role player will - perhaps with some effort at first - be able to understand how Paradox works and describe it either in text or words depending on what type of RP game he or she is playing in (the same applies to Spheres).

Paradox for all intents and purposes isn't a straight forward thing, instead if the mage creates something out of the ordinary or botches on a magic role he suffers the number of paradox points mentioned in the box - this is, of course, all subject to change as the GM of a game is the final authority in what is considered "breaking the rules." Paradox is then explained. It isn't merely a force which "hurts" the mage; it is a plausible, almost coincidental occurrence which can render the mage in quite a bit of pain or... in some cases, dead. One major struggle then in mage is trying to make your magic seem like mere "coincidence" so as not to upset the forces of reality.

The magic Spheres covered in this book are excellent - in no other revision has the magic in Mage been given so much creativity - unlike any other role playing game you now have the chance to make up your own spells and enchantments. Perhaps alone worth the price of the book, the Spheres section goes over each and every magic Sphere in the game and gives you detailed descriptions of what each and every level does.

Fireballs from fire and earth shaking spells from earth? Not a chance, in this game you actually get to make your own spells - mixing Forces and Prime for instance to summon something out of the blue (the Prime Sphere, a flame for example) and propel it (a decent mastery in the Forces Sphere), which can essentially make a fireball (if you want to risk getting the effects of Paradox).

It goes without saying that this role playing game was not made for small table top groups, instead it is better played on a "World of Darkness" game online in which other players play humans, vampires, and werewolves among other things - a world in which seeming "normal" is very important. More importantly magic can be explained in lengthily prose as too can be explained the effects of Paradox whereas in a tabletop game this might be difficult.

I've read a number of complaints in reviews on how little Nephandi, Marauders and the Technocracy are covered. This is more than intentional and the reason for it should be a little more than obvious: with source books on the way, it goes without saying that White Wolf should leave quite a bit of information out. I'm /not/ a fan of this either, but Dungeons & Dragons releases books where you have to buy every single source book in order to keep up with the game, I figure White Wolf is ahead of the game by putting out a playable system every time they release a core book but require individuals to buy additional sourcebooks. (Many of the sourcebooks in D&D are also quite useless - as many D&D fans know but also know they serve as essential references with information intentionally left out of the campaign books. White Wolf's sourcebooks typically cover everything in good detail.)

As a GM in a number of White Wolf systems I'd have to suggest readers to disregard comments telling them not to pick up the revised edition of Mage as a starting point. Many of the essential game components, such as Paradox, Magic Spheres, botch rules, and other die rules are covered poorly in previous editions - while I mean no disrespect to reviewers who feel otherwise, revised is essential to play in mostly any Mage game (especially online).

Lastly one of the major complaints about this game system is that it describes the Technocracy as winning the Ascension War. If you have a problem with it, like most GMs you should create your own source material to give to players telling them of any plot/epic level changes you made. Again, everything in this game can be changed and quite easily (the effects of Paradox are not the result of the Technocracy mind you, they are instead the result of a mindset which humankind has developed... disbelieving magic, believing more in technology, a mindset which makes this game realistic).

A /substantial amount of creativity is needed on the part of the player./ It is warned at the beginning of the book that this core book should be used as a guideline only - skip that in Vampire: The Masquerade if you'd like, but in Mage it is essential for proper game play.

Describing things in depth creatively comes before any and all die rules when playing mage (if you dislike this idea than perhaps the game system isn't right for you, if you like it though, give the game a try). That being said this game cannot be played properly after simply reading over the book, it takes a long time of practice with writing descriptively or speaking descriptively should you venture to play it at a tabletop. The rewards of playing this game system are amazing though as you will be able to play something creative and unique with magical powers in a realistic world.

The only downside with the game is that it is difficult to consistently think of creative ways to play your Mage (something which is essential). While I'm sure this game will provide the you - the reader - with months of entertainment, it is possible for the enthusiasm to die down after a few years (whereas D&D games can be adapted and revised by GMs for years of Friday night game sessions... so it might be more trouble than it's worth).

Superb game all in all! In my opinion this is certainly one of the best and most creative games White Wolf has to offer!

I urge anyone who is just coming to Mage to make an effort to get a hold of the pre-revised edition. Although there have been many needed rules improvements (paradox now works in a fashion more consistent with the rationale provided for it, magick rules have been cleaned up and the annoying increased tendency to botch has been fixed), the setting is closer to the dark, hopeless, millenarian world of werewolf than the open and vibrant world of Mage.

For starters, mages are now less powerful-they tend to gain more paradox, magick difficulties are higher and effects require more successes, and foci are harder to abandon. Spirit mages have been hit extremely hard by the "world winds" which make entering the umbra life-threatening. This device is, as someone else hs pointed out, completely inconsistent with the rest of the game line and is a transparent game device for forcing mages to stay on earth.

The setting is heavy on doomy, millenarian elements that were not present nearly as strongly in the pre-revised edition. The intent seems to be to make mage into a gritty, street-level setting, closing off story possibilities rather than leaving them open. I never considered the open nature of mage to be a problem, and am displeased about this enforcement of a "meta-plot" I neither understand nor care about.

The quality of the writing is also not nearly as strong-the fiction at the beginning is just one mage telling another about magick, with no story or atmosphere, and the little fiction pieces at the beginnings of chapters are gone. There is very little that helps you to understand the mood and power of the mage setting.

In all, Mage Rev is smaller, less ambitious, and darker than the original. Buy it for the rules and use the orignal mage book for setting and mood information.

I think the three words that are the heart of Mage: The Ascension Revised are the title of this review: Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda. There are so many things that could have been done to make this a wonderful product and a wonderful game. There would have been many people that would have loved a product on the same level as the Vampire: The Masquerade Revised and Werewolf: The Apocalypse Revised books. We should have been delivered that level of product. In the end, though, Jess Heinig delivers to us a product that feels rushed, sloppy, and depressing.

The world setting has had a 180 degree turn around forced upon it (and it does feel like a forced thing, not natural), and took a setting where it was easy to view things with wild eyed wonder, and turned it into a bitter, desperate, constant struggle with life and death. Even to the point that your own magic (no longer with a -k) can contribute to this regularly with the new rules. Personally, I feel Destiny's Price was more than good enough of a supplement for those campaigns that played this way. This, though, is truly a matter of taste.

What bothers me the most perhaps, is the sheer lack of quality in the book design. It's missing rules (for Wonders/Talismans), and gives a grand total of three pages of information on the Technocracy, the main antagonist in the game. In previous versions, we always were given information, stats, and some methods of operation for these mysterious men in black. White Wolf's (mainly Jess Heinig's) reaction to this is 'Buy Guide to the Technocracy!' (admittedly, a wonderful book), but why should I be forced to buy tons of supplements just to play the basic game and have a reasonable amount of world information? The layout is horrible, and it is difficult to find most things that actually were included in the book. The rules are clear, but read as a cut and paste from Justin Achilli's well written Vampire Revised.

I could go on, in fact, I could probably rant for pages and pages. Needless to say, I have ceased purchasing any Mage: The Ascension products for the foreseeable future for as long as this is the way they're dealing with the Mage side of the World of Darkness. Buy this book only if you want the Revised Edition rules clarifications, as it makes a horrible beginner's entry point into Mage: The Ascension. Get the 2nd Edition book if you're starting. Many neighborhood game shops and used book stores still have it.

Well, I both love and hate this book. What I do like are the systems changes, I think they did clear up the game mechanics well in most cases. However, that is as far as my liking goes, unfortunately.

The new wrtiers completely changed the atmosphere of the game. It's no longer a philosophical game about world views and high ideals. Instead, it has been turned into a "We're nailed to the wall, so let's see how many of them we can take out before we go." That was the appeal of Mage for me. Some of the concepts like the Avatar wind (which does agg damage to any mage entering the Umbra - gods forbid you want to play a Dreamspeaker) and the fact that all the higher-up Mages are just flat out gone (if you play Vampire, imagine how much it would screw up the politics and the feel of the game if all of a sudden every vampire of 8th gen or better just disappeared).

Unfortunately, I think this was due to the fact that they put the Werewolf writers in charge of writing the new Mage. Not that I don't like Werewolf - I love it. But Werewolf is Werewolf, and Mage is Mage, and they both had their appeal. By turning Mage into a Werewolf type of view, they destroyed that appeal. If you want to learn the system, this book is good, but I really recommend tracking down the 2nd Edition books and using them for background.

I have been playing Mage for 5 years now, and have quite the collection of the books. When I heard that Phil Brucato was leaving the line, I was dismayed, for he has brought such a wonderful vision of what the world was like in the setting. It was with great trepidation that I purchased this new edition of Mage. I was hoping for something akin the the Revised Edition of Vampire (which is outstanding). I was disappointed, but relieved at the same time. I gave it four stars, only because technically it is quite well. It clears up some rules, revises the game rules to use the Revised Combat section, and cleans up a few minor problems that the other edition had. But as for an enjoyable read, this book fall flat. It is missing a great story ideas of the previous editions. It makes the game more selfish, and more depressing, rather than something with a glimmer of hope. The game takes away the world spanning information, and instead makes everything more or less self-centered. Something that goes against the basic feeling of the game in general. If you are looking to get into Mage, this isn't a bad way to start, but really try to find earlier material, because it is what the game is really about, and just use the cleaned up rules. If you are an experienced mage player or storyteller, than you can skip over most of it, although the Revised rules are nice, and makes things a bit better.

I think i understand the reasons behind the change of scope on Mage Revised, when i began playing the game (since first ed.) there were a lot of things left to one's criteria, fortunately my troupe of players get along quite well and together we made something great of a system full of holes. Don't get me wrong on that last comment, the concept of the game is the most inovative i have ever played on 12 years, but for newcomers i can understand the despair one could feel at the amount of freedom the system offers. As far as the old revisions went, they got you involved on a great scale war which spanned several realities in conflict, it was very easy to forget about the real place of the fight (Earth) and get involved in petty politicing with astral spirits (Umbrood) or just get lost inside your huge tradition full of all powerful archmages who could do things you would never be able to do in several lifetimes. What they did was to cut the strings and leave all the omnipotent players outside in order to put the low level apprentices (that means you) in charge of saving the world. It may sound fun for those who are new to the system and disapponting for all who have survived titanical battles in the past. They give a simpler (and better) look at magic, the difficulty to pull the legendary rabbit out of the hat increased a lot and is nearly impossible to leave earth now. My advice: Buy this if you have never played the system and if you really like it get the second edition so you can see the difference. If you have already played the game, don't bother and keep surviving under your own system. Why the three stars? If it was the first time i read about this game i probably woud have gone for the five stars, but since i have already looked at two other version of the system i really expected more from White Wolf, if they could do it with Vampire, why not with Mage?

I just started running a chron (my third Mage chronicle), and we transitioned to Revised rules seamlessly. Overall, MAGE Revised is definitely worth the money. The clearer rules made a deep (and positive) impact on the flavor and pace of my game.

WHAT DOESN'T WORK: Some art is cartoony, and the fiction is bland compared to the First and Second Edition material -- the intro piece in particular is simply an infodump without much entertainment value.

Rules on the backgrounds of Node and Wonder and the new trait of Resonance are intriguing, but should have been clarified in the core book or wholly moved to another publication. Inclusion of such vague rules introduces confusion into the core sourcebook. In addition, some of the changes to the Sphere rules change the Sphere interaction somewhat drastically, and adding a page summarizing those changes would have been helpful to Second Edition players.

WHAT WORKS: Rules for casting are much clearer, and the new rules on foci work beautifully. Putting a new emphasis on ritual encourages players to treat magic like magic, not psi or superpowers. Merits and Flaws are a welcome addition to the core book, and they include some wonderfully creative eye-openers. The clarification of rules governing Avatar, Arete, and accumulated successes are excellent. Aside from the omissions mentioned above, the rules are well-written and clear up a number of gray areas from Second Edition.

Expanded material on the Traditions provides a nice overview of the various factions and weaknesses of each Tradition. Each Tradition receives four pages of text that present an overview of the factions, group organization and philosophy, group drawback, and the usual stereotypes of other Traditions. The stereotypes possess far less attitude than in previous editions, but this is a minor personal quibble on my part. Each Tradition includes a new faction not presented in previous materials.

There IS a long-term plot cooking in the background now. In previous incarnations of MAGE, the Ascension War offered more of a framework than a metaplot. It was a formless war in many ways, and never seemed to carry over consistently between books. The MAGE universe seems a lot less static now, and I like the new sense of direction and momentum.

MAGE Revised presents a darker look at the MAGE setting. However, it doesn't seem that different than the old mood. Contrasting a more personal street-level flavor with the epic aspects of MAGE makes the magical side of the game that much more powerful. The book contains plenty of story ideas and is not limiting in the least. I highly recommend it.

I run a Mage game, and I like Third edition slightly better than 2nd. Admittedly, I don't particularly care for Technocrats, so my games rarely deal with the White Wolf meta-plot. However, the Ascension war being over seems logical, and even overdue; how could the Traditions, disparate, ill-organized, and argumentative, hope to triumph over hundreds of years of subtle work by the impeccably organized Technocratic Conventions?

Many of the complaints about 3rd ed., however, seem to center around the new difficulties for mages -- the Avatar Storm, increased Paradox, et c. However, if you look at the rest of the White Wolf World of Darkness games, you will see that mages have always been extremely powerful. A werewolf can take a mage in a fight, but not if the mage has time to prepare for him. The average mage can take down the average vampire easily, even using the White Wolf edict that considering vamps simple objects and transmuting them into lawnchairs should not be allowed. As for mage vs. a Fae, there is no contest. I have not read the revised editions of Werewolf or Vampire; however, in 2nd edition Changeling, which fits into the Revised publishing timeline, new abilities have been added to allow fae to more dramatically affect the mundane world, including ways of making your magical sword and pet dragon visible and dangerous to non-fae. I understand that balancing gestures are also being made in the other Revised books. White Wolf is attempting to even the playing field between the different books, so that if someone wants to, as people invariably do, mix PCs from different books together, the experience will be pleasant and balanced.

As a Mage GM, I am very aware of how powerful the characters really are; luckily, the players I work with are intelligent and creative, and their characters have paradigms and personality quirks that keep them from abusing their power. Three dots of Mind and you can brute-force information and cooperation from the GM's painstakingly built Non Player Characters, for example. Mage is a very high-powered system, and a few checks and balances aren't at all unreasonable.