Customer Reviews

Mahler: Complete Symphonies (Carnegie Hall Presents)

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If you consider sound quality and orchestral execution to be important factors, I still feel that the Gary Bertini complete Mahler cycle on EMI is the best overall one (and it includes a terrific "das Lied von der Erde"). But there's also no argument that Bernstein's first Columbia Mahler cycle still remains an important milestone in the history of recorded classical music. The real question is this: are these DSD remasterings enough of an improvement to warrant dumping whichever earlier version is already in your collection, and making the upgrade to this even newer one. I would say that the answer lies upon just how satisfied, or unsatisfied you are with Sony's earlier efforts. As usual with a project as monumental as this, you take the bad with the good.

The good part is this: the dynamic range is a bigger now, and there's more "air" or space around the instruments themselves. But these new remasterings are also a tad "brighter" sounding; favoring the treble end of the audio spectrum. This is especially true in comparison to the Bernstein Century remasterings, which are generally more "smooth" sounding. For me, the biggest improvement comes with Bernstein's monumental LSO M8 - a recording that has been slighted-over for the last several decades for the more "slick" sounding Solti M8. I greatly prefer the Bernstein. This time, there's much less of the distortion that has always dogged the endings to both parts. But it's also really annoying that Sony has now elected to forgo giving us extra tracks in Part II of M8. They also chose to drop the Janet Baker/Israel Phil. "Kindertotenlieder" that began disc one on the Bernstein Century rendition of this. Instead, Sony has now placed the entire M8 on one disc, sans extra tracks. However, they could have placed the "KTL" before the first movement of M3, which occupies a single disc by itself. If it's already available, why not use it again?

Now that that's out of the way, another "good" feature is the inclusion of the personal recollections of Mahler that were a major selling point for the New York Phil's own Mahler symphony cycle box set (remember that?). Now I no longer have to feel guilty for no longer owning that particular box (I copied some of the better performances). Every good Mahlerian should own these recollections, I suppose. Another "goodie" is the inclusion of the Christa Ludwig/Israel Phil. "Das Lied von der Erde", which has never enjoyed a good mastering job previously. It sounds pretty good here. However, I am bummed that Bernstein's outstanding "Des Knaben Wunderhorn" has not been included in any of the big box sets. It's a wonderful "DKW", with both Christa Ludwig and Walter Berry in excellent voice. It should get included.

In summary, if you're a big fan of Bernstein's pioneering Mahler from the 1960s, you'll want to own these DSM remasterings. Just beware that the more realistic and accurate sound also means that momentary lapses in precision and intonation (tuning) are more noticeable now too. If that idea scares you, you might want to stick to the darker sounding Bernstein Century ones. But if you're also a big admirer of Bernstein's ultra-exciting Mahler 8 from London, get this!

I won't go into detail about the performances here: Bernstein's earlier Mahler cycle for Columbia Masterworks is legendary, and on the whole, may still be the finest available - all except Symphony No. 5 (and to a lesser extent No. 1 - the middle two movements in particular, plus I could never warm up to tenor René Kollo in this Das Lied von der Erde, even if Christa Ludwig's "Der Abschied" is truly worth hearing, here as much as elsewhere) here belong among my favourite interpretations/recordings ever. What's really shocking to me is how much the sound is improved compared to earlier CD issues (let alone the original LPs) - this happens only rarely, but in this case, the new remasterings (apparently from the original session tapes versus the standard production master) are really fuelling my appreciation for the interpretations and the music themselves (one simply hears so much more of everything, all of a sudden it all sounds so fresh and lively!). It's too bad Bernstein's Columbia Mahler isn't complete (the song cycles are missing, this is strictly Symphonies plus Das Lied von der Erde), but I'm happy to have bought this latest reincarnation (that is, again) - and I'm really convinced it must now be a first choice for Mahler novices, too.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

The lead reviewer's preference for Gary Bertini over Leonard Bernstein is eccentric, to say the least, but I agree on technical grounds that this new issue is the best-sounding version of Bernstein's first Mahler cycle. A note from the engineer responsible for the remastering informs us that he went back to the original multi-channel master tapes. These were mixed on a "state-of-the-art, one--of-a-kind analog soundboard." The resulting mix was then digitally transferred to a single-bit steam for audiophile-grade quality in the CDs. None of this can be fully translated by me into ordinary ideas, but my ear can tell that some glaring sonic blemishes are gone.

I don't hear the brighter highs that the lead reviewer mentions, but the bass is now clean and distinct; there's no digital glare in the higher strings; the orchestra has more room to breathe. This is all to the good. Anyone who loves these performances can rest assured that rebuying them one more time is well worth it.

I am a devotee of Bernstein's Mahler. Indeed, it's my Mahler, the first I ever heard, along with Bruno Walter's. I bought the original 13-LP box set. As much as I loved the performances, the sound wasn't good. Even now, with advanced technological tweaks, the improved sound isn't as rich, dynamic, or complete as what Bernstein got from DG in the digital era when he returned to Mahler a second time. Too often the horns are backwardly placed; the string sound is thin at times. But one thing can be said -- we have come as close as possible, for now, to what the conductor and engineers heard in the control booth during the recording sessions. Good enough, and thanks.

Not all of these 12 CDs are well filled, but it's nice that Sony included the original bonus disc in which musicians who played under Mahler remember him. The last CD contains a performance of Das Lied von der Erde that is defective in Rene Kollo's unappealing singing and the lackluster abilities of the Israel Phil., but at least Bernstein himself and Christa Ludwig, in a signature role, are fine.

Leonard Bernstein was my hero in those days. He was young, good looking, much like the folks in the White House. I loved his music, and I thought he could no no wrong. In the years that have passed, I've grown to enjoy his compositions more than his conducting, which is often uh.... unusual. Some of these recordings are considered the best available, and I will state without reservation that they've never sounded better than they do in this set. But for me, none would be a first choice. If you love these performances, you will absolutely love the way they sound in this latest remastering. I will enjoy coming to them occasionally. It's for sure that NO ONE else does Mahler quite like Lenny.

I agree with the vast majority of the comments offered by other reviewers of the great value in this historic, reissued, remastered set, especially with the improvement in sound. Unless there were unknown factors that prevented their inclusion, the following Mahler/Bernstein/Sony recordings could have been included to make it a complete Bernstein/Sony series (around 7 additional disks):

1) The Ludwig/Berry orchestral (NYPO) and piano recital (Vienna) versions of "Des Knaben Wunderhorn".
2) Mahler song recital (piano) with Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau.
3) Jennie Tourel and Janet Baker recordings of the "Kindertotenlieder" with NYPO and Israel Philharmonic, respectively, plus Tourel's 3 Rueckert and one Wunderhorn song.
4) Finale of 2nd Symphony (in Hebrew) with Israel Philharmonic, Adagietto from 5th Symphony at RFK's funeral, and 1st movement of 8th Symphony at opening of Philharmonic Hall at Lincoln Center.
5) Complete recording of the 2nd Symphony with Armstrong/Baker and the London Symphony.

Can any other missing Sony recordings be added to this list?

I've seen others comment where they lamented the lack of Bernstein recording one of the performing versions of the incomplete 10th Symphony, but he went on record saying that the amount of material beyond the first movement was insufficient to perform, and that others' attempts to "complete" the symphony didn't represent true Mahler. I respect that view. I myself do lament the lack of a recording of "Songs of a Wayfarer" and "Das klagende Lied".Mahler: The Complete Symphonies [Box Set]

How anyone could not like this cycle is beyond me, or at least I want it to be.

To start with the obvious: Bernstein loves this music, and the way he conducts it is unbelievably passionate and unpretentious. He has charisma, not to be underestimated.

Nostalgia factor. The Philharmonic is ravishing. The peculiar New York summer (Sharks and Jets). A city that is still somewhat dangerous, without endless hordes of yuppies and college-educated hipsters.
Probably true, but I don't recall any of this. I wasn't around.

It seems Mahler's symphonies can become orchestral showpieces, a fine way for orchestras to demonstrate their sonority, cohesion, and virtuosity. Bah!

There's this stupid notion that Mahler was some kind of maudlin cuckold emotional weenie. Mahler was a great Wagner conductor. The 8th's premiere was massive, brought off as envisioned. Klemperer carried Mahler's letter of recommendation in his pocket. Walter attached his destiny to his music. These two were not cognitive lightweights, and they recognized Mahler as a genius to be equalled.

Who doesn't want this music to consume them? I can appreciate flawless orchestral balance, the shifting of elements, the perfectly built climax. All the pieces fall into place. The harbinger of Schoenberg, Webern, and Berg. Mahler is much more than that.

The 3rd, 6th, and 7th are stunning.

This is the best sound these recordings have received ever. Nonetheless, the lack of depth, air, and a bias for bright, treble sound rob Mahler's orchestra of much color and amplitude, not Bernstein's fault, certainly, but an underlining of a certain pervasive brashness these early recordings could perhaps have done without, or at least to a lesser extent. Funny, I like them better now than I did then.

Of special interest in this set is a series of interviews with retired players who played under Mahler. A treasure.

If you are a Bernstein fan, of course these performances belong in your collection. He staked a claim with Mahler as with no other composer, and he remained loyal to it throughout his career. He was not quite the "pioneer" that some made him out to be, but he got Columbia to record all of the symphonies, and that in itself is worthy of respect and honor.

In general, I don't find "complete symphonies" of anybody with the same conductor satisfying overviews (exceptions that break the rule, Beethoven: Karajan's from the 1960s, Harnoncourt's, and Furtwangler's compilations which include the wartime Eroica from Berlin and the Pastorale from his return to the BPO concert). Conductors as a rule are better at some than at others. Specifically with Mahler, I need to admit that I don't like all the symphonies equally, nor do I find any one conductor doing them equally as well, so overall, I suggest don't get this box but look for individual items. Let's take one symphony at a time:

First: not one of my favourites, I think it's very loud. Bernstein brings out the klezmer aspects which are cute, but perhaps more subdued highlighting would be enough. It's the "Titan," not the "Jewish" symphony. The performance I enjoy, given that I'm not a fan of the work, is Ormandy with the Philadelphia Orch which includes the Blumine movement (excised by Mahler after the premiere), and shows the later Philadelphia sound at its best. Some critics hate inclusion of the Blumine.

Second: The earlier movements of the symphony are insufferable, as well as parts of the last.... just when you hope Mahler is through with gaucheries, along comes another embarrasing little march. Notwithstanding shortcomings, by the time the chorus comes in, it becomes sublime. No one can top Klemperer/Wilhelm Pitz, serious music making at its best. Abbado from Lucerne a close second. Rattle from Birmingham a refreshing third. Bernstein's conception is cogent, emotional and successful in the main. His chorus lacks finesse and awe (is it an amateur group?) so it detracts from some of the most beautiful pages in the score. Jennie Tourel seems to be shouting; Lee Venora is efficient.

Third: Have not heard fabled Horenstein, so regrettably, not part of this survey. Otherwise, Abbado from Vienna (Norman), slower, Abbado from Berlin (Larsson),a bit sprightlier, Essa Pekka Salonen from LA (Larsson), great clarity and passion. This is one of my favourite Mahler symphonies. Bernstein I think is better on DG. The recorded sound, even as cleaned up here, requires amplitude that the later recording achieves but Columbia didn't.

Fourth: Reiner with the CSO and Lisa della Casa, to my knowledge his only Mahler symphony, and a great one it is, lyrical and powerful. This symphony has lovely moments, even if the end is a bit saccharine/silly, nonetheless, it is quite fine. Bernstein on DG is fine, but having a boy soprano (Alan Bergius, whom he also used in live concert with the VPO in New York) just doesn't work and is distracting. The NYPh with Reri Grist (previously a minor player in the original West Side Story and later a Met Sophie) is enjoyable.

Fifth: Another of my favourites and hors de concours go to Karajan. He totally commands the structure of the entire piece and brings it all to bear in the climactic conclusion. ..... a stunning, moving job. Barbarolli is more leisurely but persuasive in a somewhat muted way. Bernstein brings his sense of drama to this sprawling work, very effective in individual parts but does not convey a feeling that one has travelled a musical journey from the first note to the last. The later recording is preferable to the NY Philhamonic.

Sixth: For a budget price incredible buy, there's George Szell with the Cleveland in a live performance who keeps you at the edge of your seat. It's Tragic going on Hysterical, but a thrill to hear. Karajan excels as do Bernstein (both recordings) Solti, and Boulez.

Seventh: I've yet to fully make this symphony work for me. Nonetheless, Abbado with the BPO does as much for it as I have been able to grasp, closely followed by Boulez. Bernstein makes much drama out of the music which to my ears, just makes it sound even more hollow, to paraphrase WS much sound and fury, signifying nothing. To summarize my feelings about this symphony, it sounds like a second rate, ingenious composer trying to write a symphony that will sound as if by Mahler. I've changed my mind about specific pieces of music in the course of my life, but every time I've heard this symphony, even with renowned conductors and orchestras, it reinforces past disdain.

Eighth: Solti and the CSO recorded in Vienna. No one comes close. The Veni Creator movement noisy and musically messy as always and as with everybody. Once we get to Goethe it is sublime. The new Boulez on DG is superb even though I hear the live performance that preceded it was even better. Bernstein's has drama but lacks sweep, I think that may be said of the earlier and later performances.

Ninth: Karajan's live performance with the BPO is powerful verging on sublime. An entirely different approach, with double underlining whenever he can, Bernstein's ONE performance with the BPO is the best ninth he ever recorded. Extraordinarily moving overall, except some accents to which one reacts: Lenny no, it's just a bit too much, nonetheless a great performance. His with the Concertgebouw is also fine. Both are better than the earlier NY performance. The Walter/VPO is a must for historical reasons and it is a good performance, even if orchestral discipline is spotty.

Tenth: Rattle seems to have staked a claim on this reconstructed work and does quite efficient work with it. However, I am very fond of the Ormandy version (the first ever made of the Cooke fleshing out). He conducts it as a feast for Phildelphia Sound..... and succeeds splendidly. It's a joy to hear and endures repeated hearings. Lenny would never conduct the reconstructed version but left two very fine accounts of the first movement adagio.

Das Lied von der Erde: With a deep historical bow to Kirsten Thorborg, Kathleen Ferrier, Patzak, Walter and the VPO, in more modern sound we have three superlative recordings, each with Christa Ludwig, who probably understands this music better than any other solo around, and for the longest time had the richness, intelligence, heft, evennes, and tessitura to do it full justice: Klemperer with Wunderlich, Karajan with Kollo, and, on DVD with Bernstein and also Kollo and the Israel Ph. from the Vienna Kontzerthaus. The DVD is particularly moving. The set being reviewed here includes the audio portion of the dvd. It is a great performance with Christa at her most eloquent and moving. Nan Merriman with Eugen Jochum, and Maureen Forrester with Reiner are also fine options.

Thus, don't settle on one conductor....... there was Mahler before, during and after Bernstein. My reluctance to endorse Bernstein wholeheartedly, though I find much to appreciate there, is that the hyper-emotionalism more often than not is episodic, thereby taking from the musical structure of the pieces as a whole, and these are pieces whose structures are rather diffuse to start with (except the fifth) and, ironically, thereby diminishing their emotional impact. I guess it all becomes too much about Lenny and not about the piece. But this new incarnation of those early New York recordings has made me appreciate his early efforts more and with greater affection.

Aside from the Japanese SACDs that came out a few years ago (I have the 2nd, 4th, 6th, 7th & 9th on SACD and they are way too expensive) this version of the complete set is as good as it gets (at least for now).

Blows the original set away in terms of sound quality, and for the current price ($37.99 as of December 21, 2010) you can't go wrong at all.

You know how it is when the coin is spinning on its edge and you are waiting to see on which side it will fall: it is with that kind of expectant tension and sense of suspense that I anticipated hearing this set. I had Bernstein's Mahler cycle - not all of it: I was missing 4, 6 and Das Lied - in their first CD incarnation, from the mid-1980s, by a company that still was called CBS back then, and I was perfectly happy with it, so I skipped the later reissues on the Bernstein Century edition or the Bernstein Royal Edition (oh those water colors by Prince Charles!). Just recently I reviewed Bernstein's 9th from that cycle - one of the significant milestones in the composition's recorded history and one of the fine versions from the 1960s, although one that in many aspects appeared to me as only the embryo of interpretive things that Bernstein would fully realize only in his later DG recordings (see my review of Mahler: Symphony No. 9 (Bernstein Century)). But what really made it a non-runner today was, I realized, its sonics. Although it is not something that struck me as I was first listening to it, comparing it with Bernstein's 1979 live concert with the Berlin Philharmonic on DG (Mahler: Symphony No. 9), switching back and forth between both recordings to compare some particular details, it jumped at me how dulled Columbia's sonics were, at least in these early 1986 transfers. And it really ruined any intentions that Bernstein might have had, robbing the climaxes of much of their impact, smoothing out much of the orchestra's instrumental pungency. Athough bettered by the Berlin performance of 1979 (and already by the one with the Vienna Philharmonic from 1971 available on DVD, Mahler - Symphonies 9 and 10, Das Lied von der Erde / Leonard Bernstein, Christa Ludwig, Rene Kollo, Wiener Philharmoniker, Israel Philharmonic Orchestra), the 1965 New York recording was good enough interpretively to make this highly frustrating. So time it was to break the piggy bank and invest in this new reissue (which would complete my Bernstein-Mahler-Columbia collection to boot), "first-time remixed and mastered from original multi-track analog tapes", and see if the sonic problems had been solved.

The accumulated energy dissipates, coin ends its spin and falls flat. They have. Based on the 9th, for my money, Bernstein's recordings from the 1960s now sound as good as any from a decade later or more - as good, vivid and present in fact, as his Berlin 1979 concert and as good as or even better than RCA's excellent pick-up for Levine's recording with Philadelphia also from 1979. Now Bernstein's earlier vison sounds like the Michelangelo frescoes looked in the Sistine Chapel after restoration: it can compete on its own terms, instead of being heard through, as it were, a thick crust of patina. In the Ländler the improvement brought by the Carnegie remastering is jaw-dropping. It's the difference between banging on a can and banging on a can covered by a thick layer of foam. In fact I now find the more vigorous moments of the Ländler (the Tempo II passages) preferable interpretively in New York over the DG Berlin concert, because of their extra vigor. I still prefer the extra drive in the Berlin Rondo-Burleske, but the New York sonics are much better focused (too much resonance in Berlin tends to drown some details).

But what the new sonic refurbishment has unfortunately NOT been able to do is to give more presence and pungency to the "keck" (saucy) horns at the beginning of the Ländler (0:21), and in general to all those little details which I found lacked a degree of bite and character the first time around (try the horn's "growl" in the first movement just before the second section "etwas frischer", at 5:26, and compare with Berlin track 2). In the outer movements, whatever the interpretive, and now sonic qualities of Bernstein I, he is 4 to Berlin's 10 on the Richter scale of intensity. Try the big "death" crash in the first movement at 18:44. Sure, it is loud and powerful, though still not nearly as devastatingly violent as Bruno Walter's four years earlier. In Berlin (track 6 at 1:22), it is a deafening explosion. Or the big string outburst in the finale, measure 107, "fliessender doch nicht durchaus eilig" (more flowing, though not throughout rushed) after the long, desolate passage with tolling harp, at 13:25. Compared to Berlin's hurling into the tempest (take it a little before to get the upbeat, track 13 at 1:30), New York glides over the surface.

Interpretively, unlike most other reviewers, I have no especially effusive adoration of Bernstein's earlier recordings. Maybe it is because I didn't grow with them in my early years, they weren't my introduction to Mahler's world. Don't misunderstand: they are usually fine and sometimes even better than that, they were great in their times, among the very best of the 1960s, but for those I know best - 1, 5, 7 and 9 - I find that they are only the blueprints for greater things to come: Bernstein's DG versions weren't always radically different, but they always plumbed deeper, and more intensely. And how couldn't they? When he made his cycle for Columbia he had, for most of the Symphonies, less than a decade of experience of conducting Mahler: he really started with the Mahler cycle given in New York in 1960, which he shared with Mitropoulos and Walter, and his first recording was the 4th, in 1960; he remade the 2nd Symphony for Columbia/CBS, a recording from 1973 with Sheila Armstrong, Janet Baker and the London Symphony Orchestra, which replaced his earlier one from 1963 with New York, Lee Venora and Jennie Tourel, but it is the early one which is collated on this set; some listeners might regret the decision, I don't, and for the 1973 remake I'll just keep my previous CBS CD-release, Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection" / "Auferstehung"; Kindertotenlieder. Only the adagio of the 10th and Das Lied are from the early and mid-1970s (and weren't part of the original box that collated the symphonies, that some other reviewers refer to). When he remade his DG cycle, he had up to more than a quarter-century more familiarity (the DG fourth was recorded in 1987).

But no doubt the New York cycle remains one of the best cycles from the 1960s and 1970s, a fine document of its times, and an important testimony of the art of Leonard Bernstein. No question that if you want Bernstein's New York Mahler, you need to break your own piggy bank for this reissue, even if you have the earlier ones. As another reviewer has helpfully remarked, it did unfortunately leave out some of the recordings he made for Columbia/CBS: other than the later 2nd Symphony, the song cycles are the main omissions. On the other hand, the set provides an important bonus, that hasn't been commented upon enough by the previous reviewers (only one refers to it): the interviews made by William Malloch of some of the players who had played under Mahler during his two-year tenure at the New York Philharmonic. Unlike what the product info suggest, they were not made in 1967 but in 1960, originally for a radio broadcast that was aired on the LA station Pacifica KPFK on the occasion of the centenary of Mahler's birth, July 7 1960, "They Remember Mahler". Those interviews formed the substance of another, 8-hour long program, the Mahlerthon, aired on May 4 & 5, 1974 on LA's radio KFAC. 1967 is when Columbia published this shortened, one hour-long version, in the original Bernstein-Mahler box (information gathered from the last volume of Henry-Louis de La Grange's mammoth Mahler biography). The Carnegie reissue claims "first time on CD", but those interviews, in their original, 108-minute form from 1960, were already reissued by the New York Philharmonic in their own Mahler celebration box, New York Philharmonic - The Mahler Broadcasts 1948 - 1982 [RARE]. Anyway, they offer invaluable insights on Mahler's conducting style and personality.

Contrary to what one of the other reviewers has stated, these are NOT SACDs!! They may be digital re-masterings, but they are not SACDs. SACD provides a greater dynamic range, higher frequency response, complete ambiance and more importantly, an accurate soundstage; none of which are even remotely approached by these standard CDs.

Further, while they do sound somewhat cleaner than the first re-issue (Bernstein Century), the highs are very glassy which can become wearing on the ear.

If you don't own the earlier CD set, you might want to consider this; yet, be aware there are lots of rough spots. Lenny was famous for overlooking takes with small issues such as moments of faulty ensemble, incorrect balance and even wrong notes in favor of an overall better interpretation.

Not to slight this important set, just be aware. Overall, I prefer this early Lenny in most cases, but its a tough choice. There is no definitive Mahler set, if there ever could be. Given the choice, if you don't own the first re-issue, I would get this one. But also, by all means, DO consider the Michael Tilson Thomas multi-award winning San Francisco Symphony set. The 2nd, especially, is outstanding. And they are all SACDs. Mahler: Symphony No. 2

I am still amazed that SONY, the co-inventor of SACD has abandoned the format, while other companies are cleaning up in Europe and Asia, where SACD remains very popular.