Customer Reviews

Mary Star of the Sea

5 star:		(101)
4 star:		(48)
3 star:		(23)
2 star:		(12)
1 star:		(17)

 

 

I am really annoyed at all the reviewers who have complained at how different this is from the Smashing Pumpkins. Why are they so surprised? Why do they feel Billy Corgan cheated them? I think it was made loud and clear that this is ZWAN, not the Smashing Pumpkins continued. People who are disappointed at the changes in the music and mood are only kidding themselves. Billy has even said that Zwan does not play Pumpkin songs at shows, so I think it is clear that the Pumpkins are over.

Zwan's debut features something probably no one thought they'd see - a very, VERY happy Billy Corgan. It is quite obvious by listening to Mary Star of the Sea that the old rat in a cage has found God (on "Declarations of Faith" Billy makes it clear in the chorus `I declare myself of faith'). He has found joy in life, and it radiates throughout the CD. There is no doom-and-gloom here.

The first single, "Honestly", will give you a good idea of what to expect. It's not the best song on the album, but it was a good idea for the first single because it has all the Zwan elements you find throughout every song. A very happy, carefree, fun attitude; an infectious, rocking riff; and Zwan's loud three guitar attack. Another standout on the album is "Jesus I/Mary Star of the Sea". "Jesus I" is a 14 minute masterpiece (on par with the longer Pumpkins songs, such as "X.Y.U." but certainly not sounding anything the same)in which all the musicians get a chance to shine. I've listened to this song over and over and in my opinion, this track alone is nearly worth the entire cost of the album. Other songs that grab you right away are "Yeah!", "Lyric", "Endless Summer", and "Heartsong". However, there is not one misstep in the whole CD. You won't need to hit the skip button on `Mary'.

Overall, this is a great CD to listen to LOUD during summer. Did I say great? It is actually perfect. I always thought the Pumpkins would be good as a happy band (not that they were bad as a depressed angst band), and Zwan gives me what I want. Buy this album, play it loud, and be happy.

Zwan is not a supergroup, or even really a distinct new group of its own. Instead it's a new extension of Smashing Pumpkins, with Billy Corgan still solidly in control of the songwriting. This album presents a logical progression from the final proper Pumpkins album, the underrated Machina. The other similarities between the two bands are ridiculously predictable. Pumpkins drummer Jimmy Chamberlin has come over wholesale. Bassist Paz Lenchantin (from A Perfect Circle) is now the female counterpoint, utilized liberally on backing vocals, although she's better at both bass and vocals than D'Arcy of the Pumpkins. Guitarists Matt Sweeney and David Pajo have hip indie credentials, but here they make few distinct musical statements of their own and are merely two more cogs in the Corgan machine. Corgan has made no major changes in his songwriting style, besides some natural development, so Zwan are just some new Pumpkins.

Lyrically, Corgan has thankfully dropped most of his self-righteous woe-is-me schtick and has become much more spiritual, with his usual helping of romantic musings. Musically, this album still contains some of the Pumpkins' old problems, such as the hokey sing-along "Come With Me;" while this time the gigantic sprawling epic is the 14-minute "Jesus I/Mary Star of the Sea" which can't quite justify its entire length. But this album also shows the long-time strengths in Corgan's songwriting that he rarely receives credit for. This includes pent-up, dramatic ballads like "Heartsong" and the energetic, groove-worthy rockers like "Declarations of Faith" and "Ride a Black Swan." So this Zwan album has little new to offer, but it is a good buy for Smashing Pumpkins fans who wish to see how Corgan has continued to improve his approach.

Note that at various points in the liner notes, the bandleader calls himself both Billy Corgan and Billy Burke for some reason. Put all the members of Zwan in alphabetical order and Corgan is merely in second place. Burke moves up to first.

As a big fan of the Smashing Pumpkins, I had to look into the band Zwan. At first, I really wasn't into the single, "Honestly" but it grew on me in time. After getting Zwan's "Mary Star of the Sea" I was really blown away by the first track, just the guitar sounds, the arrangement, everything. As I listened to the rest of the album, Ive come to find that the Smashing Pumpkins arent dead at all, Jimmy's incomparable drumming is still as present on Zwan's album as it was with the Pumpkins, hes still the best. And Billy has seemingly worked through some of the demons of pumpkin-ness and released an amazing post pumpkins post rock album. And the song "So I died of a broken heart" is eerie yet sad, almost reminiscent of "Disarm", accompanied by keyboard strings, while Baby Lets Rock is just a damn happy, sort of bluesy kind of song. This album was far above my expectations and it just proves that Billy does it again... he may have left the Pumpkins, but the Pumpkins havent left him. He still can write a damn good song. Billy indeed has talent, unlike a lot of todays "hit" artists, I look at them and even if they do make a satsifying song, most of them do lack talent. No matter what you say about Billy, he has talent, and there is no denying that if you listen to any Pumpkins album, and Mary Star of the Sea. Pure talent.

On first listen, i thought that all of these songs sounded the same. on the second listen, i found a few songs that i liked, but thought that this album was nothing compared to an SP album.
however, after having owned this album for over four months... i have gotten use to the music, and have recognized it as one of the greatest albums of all time. you m ay think that that is an overstatement, but i honestly mean it. this album IS one of the top 100 albums i'd say ever made.
the music is happy, yes, so what? are old, burnt out SP fans so depressed that they can't stand music that's actually a bit upbeat and optimistic? why are people so afraid of somewhat religious music? who cares. it's music... and darn good music at that.

1. LYRIC - 10/10 - this is easily the best song off of the album. This is the only song that i know in the whole entire world that can lift me up no matter how down i am. It is much better to listen to happy, beautiful, uplifting songs like this whenever you're down than to listen to ones that reflect your misery
2. SETTLE DOWN - 10/10 - Once again, another hard rocking, yet touching and beautiful track. There really isn't a basic outline to the song as there are with most songs... where it's always verse 1, chorus, verse 2, chorus, solo, chorus.
this song has more like three choruses... and i'm not sure which one is the main one, but they're amazingly powerful and blend so well...
3. DECLARATIONS OF FAITH - 9/10 - of all the songs on the album, this is probably the song that most reminds me of Billy's older work with the smashing pumpkins. the verses tend to bore you a bit, but the chorus is easy to headbang to. it's always good to have a nice pure rock n roll track on the album like this one
4. HONESTLY - 10/10 - though at first i couldn't see why this was the bands single... i must admit that this song has really grown on me. a very beautiful chorus, and the first 20 seconds are really cool, too
5. EL SOL - 9/10 - this song also took awhile to grow on me, but once it did, i really appreciated it. it flows along very nice. my only complaint is that it's a bit repetetive... hard to sit and listen through the whole thing.
6. OF A BROKEN HEART - 9/10 - the song has a decent chorus. it really isn't a "pretty" light song, but it is still very catchy. fun to sing along to.
7. RIDE A BLACK SWAN - 10/10 - for having such a stupid title, this sure is a good song! this song, like track 3, reminds me alot of SP music. perhaps the most religious song on the album, and perhaps the best chorus, too.
8. HEARTSONG - 7/10 - this is probably one of my least favorite tracks on the album. i mean, don't get me wrong, it isn't HORRIBLE, but i almost always skip it, just because it doesn't live up to the rest of the songs on the album. i don't know what it is that i don't like... it's just too plain, it could use some spunk.
9. BABY LET'S ROCK! - 7/10 - this song is slightly better than heartsong, but still not anything wonderful. i actually prefer the verses over the chorus. it's just a bit too old fashioned rock for me... somewhat corny sounding you could say.
10. ENDLESS SUMMER - 8/10 - This song won't seem like much at first, but i promise that it will grow on you. it reminds me a bit too much of the style of the two songs before it, but it does begin to lift the album back up to the level at which the first five songs of the album put it at.
11. YEAH! - 10/10 - besides lyric, this is probably my favorite song on the album. as it goes on, the song just gets better and better. you can tell after hearing the first 10 seconds of the song that it's going to be good. it somehow remains happy and sad at the same time, but don't ask me how.
12. DESIRE - 8/10 - this song, besides being somewhat boring, reminds me of one of the mellower tracks off of Mellon Collie. yes, it's slow, and not even pretty slow, but it has a nice chorus, and the lyrics are pretty good, too.
13. JESUS, I/MARY STAR OF THE SEA - 7/10 - i'm not sure what the big hype about this song is. i've listened to it several times trying to find the killer melody, the beauty, or the "rockin'"ness to it... but i can't find anything that would make it a stand out to me. i only give it a 7 because i like the beginning of the song.
14. COME WITH ME - 9/10 - this is the perfect ending song to the album. it flows perfectly, and is a wonderful song to listen to during a sleepless night or a long car ride on a sunny day.

so overall, what can i say? great album. yes, towards the mid/end of the album, it goes a bit down hill, but by the end of the album it's picked itself back up again. what really makes the album is the whole first half of it. if the last 7 songs were as good as the last 7 songs, this would probably be my favorite album of all time.
this is DEFINATELY worth the money.
it is enough like SP where you should like it if you like them.
and it is different enough from SP where you could like it even if you hated SP.
buy it.

Zwan. Lets face it, few people would have bought this CD without being a fan of the Smashing Pumpkins. At first, I thought this sounded as Machina would have, if Machina had been any good. Not true. Machina felt forced, unwanted. Mary Star is frequently fantastic, consistantly euphoric and after being in my CD player for the last week without pause, the early nostalgia for the Pumpkins has gone, blown away by this collection of storming songs.
Billy Corgan on form is a songwriter the world (and perhaps now the charts?) needs, and throughout Mary Star he is on top form. Glimpses of the Pumpkins as there of course, even more so with Chamberlain's incredible drumming and the lycrical guitar phrasing of Sweeney and Pajo, but the songs have a freshness, a necessity missing from the Pumpkins for a long time, perhaps since Mellon Collie.
When I heard about the 'harmonica-led, country closing track' my heart sank, but even this, Come with Me, is amazing. Other standouts like Honestly, Endless Summer, El Sol, on an album filled with standouts, deserve to lay the ghost of the Pumpkins firmly to rest.
The Smashing Pumpkins are dead. Get over it. But the soul of great music lives on in Billy Corgan, so put Zwan in your CD player and get up and dance. I did. And I'll be dancing a long time yet, with a big fat smile on my face.

Misidentified as an alt-rock supergroup upon their conception, Zwan's one and only release is something of an enigma.

Comprised of Billy Corgan (singer/guitarist) and Jimmy Chamberlin (drummer) of The Smashing Pumpkins; Matt Sweeney (singer/guitarist) of Chavez; David Pajo (guitarist) of Slint and Tortoise amongst others, and Paz Lenchantin (violinist/live bassist) poached from Maynard James Keenan's (Tool) A Perfect Circle (who would conversely become something of an alt-metal 'supergroup' upon her departure), Zwan boasted a line-up of formidably talented and credible musicians who had worked on some of the seminal material of their generation.

Unsurprisingly however, things turned sour quickly. Opinions differed, egos clashed, mud was slung and the group disbanded acrimoniously with Sweeney, Pajo and Lenchantin going one way and the Pumpkins contingent defiantly going the other. What they left behind (along with an apparent abundance of unreleased material) was a strong, relaxed and confident album - albeit slightly overlong - of genuine quality, mixing elusive ballads (`Heartsong' and `Desire'), stomp-along pop rockers (`Lyric' and the Big Country-esque `Yeah!') and catchy tongue-in-cheek numbers (`Settle Down', `Honestly', `Endless Summer' and `Come With Me'). The band combine most effectively though, on the soaring title track which features exquisite guitar interplay between Sweeney and Pajo with a burning solo from Corgan and a bruising drum performance from Chamberlin.

However...whilst (as with so many other such projects) there is a case for arguing that Zwan could never amount to more than the sum of its parts, this is hardly a condemnation of their work when considering that the main component in the project was Billy Corgan. MSotS certainly plays closer to a Smashing Pumpkins album than Chavez or Slint and this is perhaps part of the problem. Although the guitars are intricately arranged and contain occasional glimpses of Sweeney's trademark `wash of distortion' sound, Pajo's skill with more progressive works and multifarious time signatures is lamentably underused. In short, it is an album boasting 2 math-rock icons but scant trace of math-rock itself, thereby ensuring that ultimately it would be looked upon far more favourably by neutrals and Pumpkins fans than those of the other associated acts.

Band breakups tend not to come as acrimonious as Zwan's either, with Corgan slating the others (excluding Chamberlin, who would reaffirm Corgan's indictment) in subsequent interviews, citing prima donna-type behaviour (conventionally reserved for Corgan himself!) and sleaze as a fatal flaw in the band dynamic: "The music wasn't the big problem, it was more their attitude...Sex acts between band members in public. People carrying drugs across borders. Pajo sleeping with the producer's girlfriend while we were making the record." (Chicago Tribune, 04/24/05) Pajo would refute the accusations.

For anyone seeking entry into the music of the participants' previous existence I would personally recommend:

The Smashing Pumpkins (Corgan & Chamberlin) - `Mellon Collie & the Infinite Sadness' (1995)

Chavez (Sweeney) - `Gone Glimmering' (1995)

Slint (Pajo) - `Spiderland' (1991)

Tortoise (Pajo) - `Millions Now Living Will Never Die' (1996)

A Perfect Circle (Lenchantin) - `Mer de Noms' (2000) [* `Thirteenth Step' is actually better but she only plays on the last track]

I was a tad bit skeptical about this CD, but having listened to it all day, I have to say that this album is really, really good, it has just about everything I loved about the early pumpkins album and kicks it up a notch, not to say that it is the same as early pumpkins stuff though. Tight riffs, melodies and great rock songs, and a couple of ones that will pull on the old heart strings. I'm glad Zwan are around to fill some of the void that Pumpkins left when they broke up.

What made the Smashing Pumpkins such an incredibly powerful band was their ability to shift from a Sabbath-like wall of sound to a quiet psychedelic groove on a moment's notice. This dynamic ability was and still is a rarity in most rock music.

Zwan's "Mary Star of the Sea" has some great texture, pretty good songwriting, and so-so vocals, but the sonic dynamics that made Billy a rock genius are totally missing. It seems as though Billy has fallen in love with just strumming cool chords on his guitar. He was better when the guitars were either hammering away power chords or quietly picking a beautiful melody (and always both in the same song). Zwan totally misses these highs and lows, or as Billy might say: "Life's a bummer when you're a strummer".

While this is Zwan's first album, they came into the scene with a large fanbase consisting of the notorious pumpkin fans and fanatics (I myself admit to being a part of that fanbase) who follow the works of singer billy corgan and drummer jimmy chamberlain. As such, when this cd came out there came a very largely varied response. There are those fanatic smashing pumpkin fans who claimed that it was like listening to the pumpkins, except it wasn't as good. There are those who claim it is like the pumpkins but ever better. There are those such as myself who believe that this is a band of its own right, with sounds that are at times like the pumpkins but by and large sounds belonging to zwan and no one else...

My point with all of this is, that it is really all a matter of perspective as to whether or not you will like this cd. If you are wondering if smashing pumpkins is a band or an activity for holloween time, and you like upbeat pop/rock, you may like this cd. If you did follow the smashing pumpkins, you must go into listening to the cd with the thought that this is a differant band with a differant sound.

Basically, if you go into this cd expecting another siamese dream, you will most likely be disappointed. Just keep in mind that the fact that it is a new band doesn't mean it is a bad cd. I like it very much personally

Also, to the claims that the sound is terrible and whatnot, there is a note from billy corgan himself here: http://www.zwan.com/BillyPost.html

finally, if you really want to listen to it before you buy it, you can listen to it cover to cover at www.zwan.com

The rebirth of the Smashing Pumpkins band name in 2007 unfortunately wedged the short-lived Zwan as a side project, or to the less generous, an afterthought in Billy Corgan's varied career. Corgan had denounced the band when he embarked on a solo career that proved even less successful and lasting than Zwan, and despite the band's sole album receiving critical acclaim, by this point Zwan is all but forgotten, which is a shame considering that they were a stronger musical unit than the Smashing Pumpkins ever were in their heyday (the Mellon Collie era arguably excepted).

None of the Zwan members seem to look back all that fondly on the experience, but they should at least be proud of Mary Star of the Sea, regrettably their only full-length release. For my money, the only Corgan release that's better and more consistent is the Smashing Pumpkins' sophomore release Siamese Dream...and as blasphemous as it sounds, there are some days where I actually prefer the Zwan record.

Most Smashing Pumpkins albums needed a couple of listens before they grew on me, but almost all of Mary Star of the Sea attracted me immediately. From the catchy, upbeat (is this really Billy Corgan?) singles "Honestly" and "Lyric," to the epic title track (mixed with an old hymn, "Jesus, I"; it certainly doesn't feel like 14 minutes) to the slower ballads like "Of a Broken Heart" and "Heartsongs," this album really delivers from one track to the next. You'll quickly find yourself playing air guitar to "Declarations of Faith" and bobbing your head to "Settle Down" and "Ride a Black Swan." But the highlight for me is "El Sol," which the credits say is a traditional hymn, although I've not been able to track down any other recordings. Certainly, they won't pack the same punch as the Zwan arrangement, which is a jaunty rocker that is sure to get stuck in your head.

Get the edition packaged with a bonus DVD--this disc essentially is a sampler of outtakes and songs that didn't find their way onto the album, and the snippets will make you hope that Billy Corgan will eventually allow bygones to be bygones and someday issue the "tons of music unreleased that will just sit in a box until [he] can stomach it."