Customer Reviews

Master Of Orion 3

5 star:		(6)
4 star:		(5)
3 star:		(2)
2 star:		(5)
1 star:		(12)

 

 

I'm a big fan of turn-based resource-management strategy games. I've loved the MOO (Masters of Orion) series up until MOO-III. My biggest complaint about MOO-III is the lack of control I have over the planets in my Empire and the forces I control (or really don't). This is primarily the result of a bad interface. However, the interface is so bad that I returned the game, because it was no fun to watch what horrible things the computer AI (Artificial Intelligence) would do for me since the interface prohibited me from controlling my own units.

In a nutshell, MOO-III is the successor to a popular series of turn-based resource-management strategy games. What made the MOO series more attractive than many of its' competitors was an easy-to-use interface, charming graphics (art), and a good storyline. For instance, in MOO-II, whenever galactic events occurred, a robotic news anchor would read the report (often with a little bit of humor) while background news music (the sounds of teleprompters) played. I loved it and it greatly added to the charm and feel of the game. Star ships were highly customizable and researching new technologies to get the latest gadgets was a lot of fun.

MOO-III lacks those fun news reports. Starship design is a droll affair conducted on a menu system that Apple Computers must have long ago rejected. Choices are limited and the auto-build function tends to do most of the work. Researching new technologies is now a bore since I don't do much more than allot money to each area of technology being researched and wait for the results. In addition, social unrest factors in my empire constantly delay new projects since the "people" are against orbital mines or some such. I tried out many different empires before realizing that this problem was game endemic rather than empire endemic.

The Galactic Council is one of the few game details that are improved from previous MOO games. There is a voting process similar to MOO-II and, of course, the powers-that-be (the New Orions) in this game have something like 1,134 votes to your 2 as a new player. Trying to get a diplomatic measure through the new council is near impossible as well (even after some 200 turns into the game). It seems as if only the New Orions can propose really cool new measures such as Galactic Space Port Tariffs. Unfortunately, the other empires tend all do have a chip on their shoulders (or alien parts I guess) so all that really happens is you get constantly condemned at the Galactic Council. It's sort of like a replay of the USA trying to get anything done at the UN. Never the less, this was one of the few aspects I liked on MOO-III.

The story line and game fluff are also outstanding. I enjoyed reading them very much. If only the game play was as well done as the story background.

Documentation was very weak. There is no graph that shows the strength and weaknesses of various government types. There is also no documentation for the various planetary specials (want to know what "ancient battle damage" means?) in the manual (By the way, "ancient battle damage" means that a planet is easier to terraform). Much of the games' necessary information is in an attached document that must be printed out using some 60+ pages of printer paper and ink. The Prima clue guide is a bygone necessity to even try to understand what's going on in the game and the Prima MOO-III clue guide didn't help much either.

What turned me off most to MOO-III is a poor game interface. The designers must have realized that they put an awful lot of detail in the game (can allot zones of development on a planet's surface) so rather than make it easy to control these aspects of the game they designed AIs to do it for you. You don't even get a choice of whether to turn these AIs off (as most people did in earlier titles in the MOO series). You can guide them slightly buy choosing policies that will direct the AIs, but they seem to do whatever they want to anyhow. I couldn't figure out how the AIs made the choices they did and neither could any of my friends. If I could understand how the AIs made decisions for my galactic empire then the game might have been playable. As it currently stands, in MOO-III, the player is more like a galactic CEO than a galactic leader. I make decisions, but I have no idea what's going to happen with them. Space combat is much the same with ships being very difficult to control and doing stupid things when under control (such as ships with long range weapons closing to short range).

I can't recommend MOO-III. Its' poor game interface and unwieldy AI makes the game more of a core to play than a pleasure. It's simply not too much fun. MOO-III minimizes its' fun parts with a poor interface. I only give it two stars for its' awesome story line (too bad I didn't get to see much of the story line since the game play was so bad!).

I recommend Space Empires IV Gold by Malfador Machinations instead of MOO-III.

Review by: Maximillian Ben Hanan

If you are like me (interested in the next MoO title, skeptical that people who hated this game are either stupid or too impatient), you'll likely buy it anyway. When you do, you should know the following:

1) The manual is useless. Worse than useless, it's often wrong. The only way to learn how to play the game is to hit the discussion forums at the quicksilver website and read the newbie questions. It will take a couple of days.

2) The game as published is buggy and almost crippled in some aspects. There are two patches available from MacSoft... download and install them immediately.

3) It's a terribly slow game. I don't mean, slow like RTS games are "slow" because there's a long startup period. I mean, slow like by the time you get well into a game, the turn processing takes >5 minutes in a large galaxy, and it starts to get boring to play it.

4) There's an open-source version of this game being developed, called Free Orion. Check it out; offer your help if you can; these people have the right idea.

I wish there were a "perfect" or "definitive" game of galactic conquest out there that was optimized for the modern OS's, but there's not. This one isn't even close.

If you have the time to put into learning it, it's not bad. Overall, I like it, but as a follow-up to MOO2, it disappoints. On the plus side, I've played it on everything from an 8500/250 (pre-G3 chip) to a dual 1.42ghz G4, and the turns process well on all of them, even the 8500/250. This is better than MOO2 Mac, which didn't start processing at reasonable speeds until the G3's came out. Sadly, the graphics in the game are on the low end of the spectrum, even for when development started. The aliens are drawn well, but the diplomacy screens disappoint. Ships are just colored arrows on the screen until you get into close, and even then they are low quality (by modern standards) images. MOO2 combat graphics are better.

I was disappointed by the Orion Senate screen. I was excited by the prospect of proposing laws and resolutions, but the implementation left me cold. You are allowed to propose laws and resolutions, but only within a very limited selection. And most of those don't interest me at all.

When you first start this game, if you haven't read anything at all, you will be quickly lost. If you've read the manual, you'll be better off, but you'll soon realize just how many necessary things are left out - but do read the manual for the storyline, it's the best part. The best way to learn gameplay and strategy is to go to the web and find the newbie forums. After reading through them, play awhile, then go back to the advanced forums to learn the tricks you haven't figured out on your own.

I haven't tried multi-player yet, so I can't say anything about that. I hope that it will be better than the single player game.

MOO3 is good enough that I continue to play, but not so good that it will replace MOO2 in my list of favorite games.

Initially I wanted to pick up this game from the local Apple Store (Mayfair Mall - MKE), but weeks after it was released I gave up and ran out to CompUSA instead. My excitement was overwhelming and unmatched since the release of Warcraft III.

Both games represent a third generation of a best selling title, but where Warcraft improved their game, MOO attempted to Redefine it. This is no longer the beloved MOO we all were waiting for.

One of the reviewers remarked on the limited screen res (800x600), at first this didn't worry me - the past titles made good use of 640x480 and it sounded like an improvement...

Unfortunately they have increased type size to the point where you get MUCH LESS information on the screen - even at the new resolution. The planet tab can only show 4 planets at a time (expect over a hundred at the end of a small game). Star Names appear only when the Galactic Map is at MAX Zoom. You will be constantly scrolling around to find anything. The Sitrep (turn info) can display a max of 3 to 5 items per page. And the amount of info you must [peruse] is increased.

Basically the screen resolution becomes the Achilles' heel of this title, and plays a major roll in every thing you do, from reports skipped (i.e. read the first 10 pages - skip the last 30) to scout ships sitting idle because because you can't find them on the map. And when the computer starts attacking you... Your view of the map is so limited that it is impossible to see where your defenses are weak!

The documentation also leaves much to be desired. All those specials that you find on planets are mentioned nowhere in the book or the online help. You must first colonize the planet and look at the infrastructure panel to find out. The diplomacy is also better but not great. How many trade agreements do I need/want, are they just being renewed, or expanded as economies expand? How home I can have 2 "Open Border TA" for some races and only one for others? None of that is in the documentation and there will always be a good degree of confusion when playing - even after several victories under your belt.

It's no longer possible to upgrade ships, a major step backwards in a tech based game where your ships are obsolete before you can build them.

So what is good about the game? Planets can progress on their own, you don't need to keep putting things in their queue, they can also build things from multiple queues (Military, Planetary, and basic development). Mineral richness effects mining output, not industry. The computer can colonize for you (if you select it in the Empire Panel), just move your scouts on, and if there is anything good there it'll be colonized with the best planets first.

Conclusion:
At [the price] this game needs a lot of work, and is a big disappointment. If a patch comes out to increase the screen resolution then I would give it an extra star. If you could upgrade ships one more extra star, but the game as is should be avoided until it's in the ... bargain bin.

Pros:
Much improved AI, planets develop nicely, auto colonization, etc

Cons:
Screen Resolution!!!
Can't upgrade ships.
Spy Queue is only 4 slots - you must keep checking back every few turns as they retire/die.
Game is just not as fun as the past titles were.

I have been an avid fan of the Master of Orion series. Now, I'm going to seek other venues.

Master of Orion 3 is flat. It is boring beyond reason. It is a series of pointless clicking of turns and hoping the AI does the right thing.

Sure the graphics are neat, and the music is acceptable, but the interactive elements are weak. Playing the game is like driving a high performance sports car wearing oven mittens, ear muffs, and a maximum speed limit of 15 MPH.

If you have a long life expectancy, no friends or family, and the need to fill in vast amounts of vacant time then this is the game for you.

I am truly disappointed.

I watched the developement of this game carefully for several years. I waited through the delays. I was worried by the reviews. I was terribly disappointed by the game.

I love turn based space strategy games. I played Master of Orion II all night or all weekend more times than I can remember. It has to be my favorite game of all time. There are a lot of people like me, so when Quicksilver decided to make a sequel, a lot of people had very high hopes.

MOO3 has more aliens, more tech, more planets, a bigger galaxy, more ships, and more customization options than MOO2. It also has tools that are supposed to make it easier to manage, like viceroys, real time space combat that mostly runs itself, and auto play features. Yet the bottom line is, the game just isn't fun.

There are a lot of numbers, a lot of spreadsheets, and a lot of bad UI. There is not the fun or light hearted graphics like in MOO2, and even though a game a MOO2 could take 10 or 20 hours, a game of MOO3 can take much longer. Even with a small galaxy.

If you have waited as long as I have waited, you will have to buy the game whether you have been warned off or not. I did. But you won't enjoy it. It is just too boring, frustrating, and tedious.

MOO2 is one of the greatest games of all time. This being so, I bought MOO3. I was robbed. I almost never actually bother to write a review of any product here on amazon but I must do so now. I have to warn you! Stop now if you are even thinking of buying this game! I sincerely believe that some kind of class action lawsuit should be brought against the makers of MOO3. There is so much wrong with it that I hardly know where to start.
The fundamental problem is that the game is so complicated that you need AIs running practically everything to avoid the mind-numbing tedium... but the AIs are idiots! They absolutely can't get anything right. You can reset certain values to change how they act, but no matter, they'll still screw things up and you just have to shut them off.
Then there's the interface problem... even with the AIs turned on, the commands you most frequently need to give should all be accessible from 2 or 3 screens at most. Instead, there are at least 4 to 6 screens that must be accessed each turn for each and every planet you control. And that doesn't include taking any diplomatic actions, viewing the reactions to actions, engaging in space combat, or designing ships.
The graphics are as primitive as they come. Space combat looks more or less like triangles with lines extending between them (triangles = ships, lines = weaponfire)... and that's if you can even find the opponent.
The documentation is almost worthless unless you like to read low-grade space sci-fi. You get one densely written booklet, most of which is uninformative. Yeah, thanks guys! Even if this game had been fun, anyone who hadn't already played MOO2 would probably never have bothered (or been able?) to learn this one.
Then there's the really absurd stuff like the syntax generator controlling the computer's diplomatic speech. You get things like the diplomat "beseechingly castigating", "threateningly imploring", etc.
Finally, the game's producers apparently eliminated the possibility of engaging in defensive intelligence. As far as I could tell, all spies had to be given assassination or sabotage missions. In short, when alien spies wreak havoc in your empire, assassinating and sabotaging, there's basically no way to stop them... the most you can do is try and "get even". I'm almost in disbelief about this one since defensive intelligence was an essential part of the last game (actually, it should be an essential part of this one too!). Maybe I've overlooked something and there's a way to do this, but if I've overlooked it, that's just testament to how nonintuitive the interface is.
Anyone interested in artificial life programming, AI, sociological modeling, etc. might find some of the things in MOO3 amusing, but no one else will.
I can imagine that in 10 or 12 years some descendant of MOO3 might actually make a decent game, but it will be almost unrecognizable from MOO3.
Anyone who gives this game 2 stars is one of the above-named number-crunching types. Anyone who gives it more than 2 is almost certainly on the producers' payroll and trying to slow the freefall of their reputation. Don't believe a word they say. Some people are writing reviews making it out to sound like the trouble lies not with the game but with the game's players who are just too impatient or too stupid to know any better. It's a dirty stinking lie and anyone who's played the game knows that.

Having been a fan of the first several MOO games, I had high expectations for this one; unfortunately, this game disappoints. Severely.

MOO3 has potential, but the game is unpolished in every respect. While there is a lot of depth to the gameplay, almost all of it is in the hands of the AI, with almost *no* user control over how the AI performs. Bottom line: little actual control of your empire. The manual, despite being 200 pages long, somehow manages to say nothing useful. And, though there may in fact be logic behind some of the game's aspects (such as space combat), given the state of the manual the odds are that you'll come away from this game thinking that 3/4 of what it does is random. Some things are just incredibly impractical. For instance, the size of the battle area never changes, and when the game is young and your ships are slow, it can sometimes take 5 minutes just to get in range to attack! There are, unfortunately, no options to speed up the combat.

I find what graphics there are to be rather nice, but the game has far too few. Where MOO2 had an assortment of colorful if cartoonish graphics, in this game you'll very quickly get tired of staring at stars and striated rotating spheres (the buttons and menubar being the only points of visual interest). The combat graphics are essentially the same thing, and there are no visuals for ground combat, unless you count a round grid that changes colors.

And, as has been said, the computer ai [is insufficient] to an unbelievable degree. It really makes one question how this game could be released as is. The only real challenge posed by this title is to figure out what the hell is going on; France put up a more valiant fight in WW2 than I think you'll find any of the computer players will. And, after about the 10th time the guy you're at war with proposes you and he enter a trade agreement (and then thanks you for rejecting it), you'll start to wonder.

And, as if all this weren't enough, the game is buggy.

If at some point this game gets seriously revamped (or the price does and you need a gift for that special someone), buy it. But until then, go find a birch and take out your self-loathing in a more humane ... way.

First of all, you have a much better chance of enjoying this game if you've played MOO II. ABSOLUTELY DO NOT buy this game if:
a. You don't like to think (i.e. play FPSes all the time)
b. You don't have a lot of free time
c. You like to learn a game in 15 minutes and beat it the first day.
d. You dislike complex turn based strategy games (like Alpha Centauri)
e. You are looking for games with top-notch graphics

That being said, I think this is an awesome game. Some people complain that the AI does everything - well, it only does if you tell it to. I like to have control of everything, so I pretty much disabled all of my empire's AI. Whether you want to micromanage or not is irrelevant - MOO3 accomodates.

I won't lie - the graphics are not a selling point. In combat, ships are really tiny and so you can't see many details. The UI is okay in terms of looks.

The manual isn't very useful either. That's why someone made an exceedingly useful in-game Encyclopedia Mod. Pop that in and you can answer most of your questions in game.

The game isn't bug-lacking either. However, one patch is out and a second one should be arriving shortly.

This game has a massive learning curve (not too bad if you're MOO2 familiar). A lot of people played it for 30 minutes, then said "This game is horrid." It grows on you - I guarantee it. Once you understand the game it's a blast to play, and you don't need a high end computer either.

Unfortunately, because of this game, I have no life anymore. This is partially because I love it but mostly because it takes forever. I've never finished a game but spent about 3 hours getting to turn 100 and an average game can go 300 or more turns. You won't get the fun out of this game unless you have a lot of time for it.

So, overall, it's an acquired taste. You love it or hate it.

I have put up with many games long enough to beat them. I put up with Pikmin for god's sake. This game starts out great. You get to create your character from a choice of many sweet looking aliens. I thought to myself "wow, this should be a cool game." Was I wrong. AI is horrible. At times I wanted to fire a giant laser into my own team. Knock some sense into them by eliminating a few of their friends. But this didn't work. This game is so bad, I only played an hour, in which all I did was create characters. pPretty pathetic, yes? I wouldn't recommend this game to anyone.