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Customer Discussions > Shogun forum

Metalcore vs. Thrash

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Showing 1-10 of 10 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Oct 13, 2008 1:31:10 PM PDT
I've seen/heard a lot of people talking about what constitutes metalcore and what constitutes thrash music. (And of course what is NU Metal, Heavy Metal, Rock, etc) People are always trying to classify music and bands into certain specific categories.

Until I heard someone call Trivium Metalcore, and then heard another person bitch at them saying they're not Metalcore, I would have simply classified them as Thrash.

So due to my apparent ignorance on how to classify music into genre's, what do you guys (or gals) think makes something Metalcore VS. Thrash? The screaming? Because honestly, Trivium for example, sounds Thrash to me, with screaming on top.

The fine print:
I'm not trying to start a pissing contest here where everyone is gonna get pissed and bitch over the internet. The purpose of this discussion is simply to state your OPINION of what characteristics of songs/bands would place them into which category, and why. So please, if you're a douche and can't do anything but tell other people what idiots you think they are because their opinion differs from yours, do us all a favor and just don't bother posting.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 13, 2008 9:13:12 PM PDT
C. Wilson says:
From what I've heard from this CD, it's like Trivium is trying to sound like a metalcore version of Metallica. The lead singer sounds like James Hetfield from the first three metallica albums. The riffs are similar variations of old metallica riffs, but with a more technical element that comes with metalcore. Same with the drumming. There are a lot more triplet patterns, though.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 22, 2008 11:07:36 AM PDT
tstep182 says:
One of the distinguishing characteristics of metalcore is screamed/roared verses and clean hook-filled choruses. Trivium generally fits the bill here, although their Crusade CD with clean singing throughout was an interesting change, which I liked. I have only heard a few songs off of Shogun, but I think they pretty much went back to screaming fulltime. So, vocally I think they're basically metalcore. Another characteristic of metalcore bands is crappy guitarists, but that is definitely NOT the case with Trivium. Trivium's exceptional guitar work is why I classify them as "advanced metalcore." I can understand why a Trivium fan would object to the metalcore label, because it's not a compliment. It was cool when Killswitch Engage basically invented it seven or eight years ago, but just like nu-metal it got really old really fast. Metalcore is all about sounding "brutal" (the silliest, most overused word in modern metal), and thrash is about technical proficiency.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 22, 2008 12:58:56 PM PDT
Alright so what makes a band "thrash" then? Fast guitars? Fast riffs? Tempo changes, etc? Thats what I've always thought constitutes being "thrash", which is why I considered Trivium in that category. Does anyone else have a take on this?

What elements of style make a band thrash or not?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 22, 2008 2:08:18 PM PDT
tstep182 says:
For me, it's really hard to put into words. I don't think speed is a thrash requirement, but speed is certainly expected of a thrash band and I guess that would be one way to separate metalcore from thrash. However, some of the greatest classic thrash songs are mid-tempo: Megadeth's "Peace Sells", Metallica's "Seek and Destroy", Testament's "Disciples of the Watch", Exodus' "Toxic Waltz", etc. Some people would probably say solos separate thrash from metalcore. That may be true too, but I don't think soloing is a thrash requirement either. In my opinion, thrash bands really focus on groove and hooks and creating songs that you can't get out of your head. Good thrash is very infectious and the heaviness just comes naturally. Metalcore bands, on the other hand, have "brutality" as their primary goal, which rarely results in anything memorable. All the songs I named above are over 20 years old and they're still revered. What metalcore songs do you think anyone's going to be talking about 20 years from now? Since we're already on the topic of Trivium, I think an example would help: "Ascendancy" is a good representation of metalcore (albeit technically advanced) and "The Crusade" is a straight-up thrash record.

Posted on Nov 9, 2009 8:23:05 AM PST
I believe that solos definitely separate a thrash band from a metalcore band. Also, let's not forget that metalcore is very focused on breakdowns, and is not as concerned with good songwriting. A lot of metalcore fans think the best parts of their songs are the breakdowns, and a lot of thrash fans think the best parts of their songs are the solos or technical drum parts or thing of that nature. You need to listen to both genres to hear a clear distinction. One thing is clear: screaming is a requirement for metalcore, but not for thrash. Thus, since Trivium released an entire album, The Crusade, with VERY little screaming, having almost the entire album sung, I declare them a thrash metal band.

-Rocky James

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2009 8:59:30 AM PST
[Deleted by the author on Nov 9, 2009 9:00:03 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2009 9:02:49 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 9, 2009 9:03:42 AM PST
tstep182 says:
Great points Rocky, especially regarding the breakdowns.

Having bought Trivium's "Shogun" since my last post here, I still say they're a true metal band. However, as you may know, there are a ton of people in Amazon's Metal Forum who go into convulsions when you say Trivium is metal.

Posted on Mar 12, 2010 9:39:43 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Mar 12, 2010 9:44:48 AM PST
D. Mayne says:
This argument is FOR, not AGAINST thrash.
anyway, it seems that thrash has more believable anger, speed, and attitude; most thrash singers have this nasally, angry, unrefined technique that sounds like a pissed off drunk guy decided to start yelling about bombs and guns. same with the guitar: though very technical, it sounds a lot more, well, metal; no octave chords or other useless crap, just fast powerchords and solos.

metalcore has INTENTIONAL, techniqued screaming that contrasts with its whiny emo parts, which are backed by whiny sounding harmonized riffs(bad ripoffs of melodeath). however, generic metalcore bands can't ever compare to the complex alternate picking of thrash, cuz if they did it would sound too "metal" and not enough "core", so instead they overemphasize breakdowns.

Posted on Sep 3, 2011 1:47:12 AM PDT
A. LaForce says:
When metalcore started out in the late 80s, it was meant to be a combination of metal and hardcore punk. Misconceptions include the idea that bands almost always use screamed verse with sung choruses (when in reality the album could be all screaming or little to none) or that the genre is styled to be generic and unmemorable, or that there is a lack of guitar solos. Many of the metalcore bands of today perpetuate these stereotypes. However decent metalcore groups do exist. Converge and Between the Buried and Me, for example, are quite memorable. I think people will still be talking about albums like Jane Doe and Colors twenty years from now. (Jane Doe is ten years old already and people talk about it like it was yesterday.)

All that being said, I have nothing against thrash. But if I were to classify Trivium, from what I've heard, I'd say they were more metalcore.
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Discussion in:  Shogun forum
Participants:  7
Total posts:  10
Initial post:  Oct 13, 2008
Latest post:  Sep 3, 2011

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Shogun by Trivium (Audio CD - 2008)
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