Customer Reviews

D&D Miniatures Starter Pack: A D&D Miniatures Game Product (D&D Miniatures Product)

5 star:		(5)
4 star:		(4)
3 star:		(3)
2 star:		(1)
1 star:		(1)

 

 

I enjoy painting miniatures, so I feel I need to explain how I could love a prepainted miniature game as much as I do. I love playing D&D, especially DMing the game, but it takes too long to put together a painted diverse group of miniatures for a game. The average time it takes me to paint a miniature is around 4 hours, and if I have an adventure with 50 monsters, that's 200 hours of prep-time -- I don't have that sort of time, especially to waste on rank-and-file troops. These prepainted miniatures are perfect for me to flesh out my adventure and let me concentrate on painting the miniatures that I want to paint. These prepainted figures should not be looked upon as works of art, as most well painted figures can be. These D&D Miniatures are tokens, and for what they're supposed to do, they're nearly perfect.

It's true that there are other prepainted figures out there, such as the Wizkids line, but the problem with these is that the click base interferes with a good D&D game. (I could rebase them, but that again takes time and ruins them for any MageKnight game.)

How are the miniatures? For approximately $1.25 a figure, they're what you would expect. Flexible plastic, limited colors schemes, and cheap. Which has a benefit: my personally painted figures I guard like gold while I carry the prepainted D&D Miniatures around loose in a cardboard box. No worry about them bending out of shape, and if they do bend out of shape I can reshape them by warming them in boiling water, holding them in a new shape, and cooling them in cold water. (Young children should have their parents help with this.)

Contents of the box: The starter set comes with 8 non-random terrain cards, a rule book, a 20 sided die, a players map, and 16 figures. (I believe the distribution is 1 rare, 5 uncommon, and 10 common, but it might be one less uncommon and one more common. Ultimately, you're better off getting two expansion packs than one starter if you're looking for rares.) Each figure has a statistics card, which allows for more tactics than the simple MageKnight click-base games. The flip side of the card has rules for using the figure in D&D.

Out of the box, the game plays pretty well. They have a simple ruleset where you just pick miniatures, but after you get a larger selection of them you can design your own alignment based faction and fight.

It's not perfect. For one, the flip side of the battle map has templates for some spell attacks, so you should photocopy them before you play (or get two starters...) I think the set is lacking in commanders which makes it difficult to put together a 100 point faction without a large amount of figures (I'd guess 1 starter and 6 expansions but since the figures are random it's hard to say.) I wish that they had included more possibilies for terrain cards had had included 8 randomly selected cards, to give a secondary collectable nature to the game. I also think that there should always be one large figure per pack, but instead only around half of the rares are large, and no commons or uncommons are rare. Finally, I wish that they had more care deciding figure distributions -- there are Unique figures, which means that you can only have one in your group. Since they're uncommon, you'll be more likely to get them, and having more than one unique figure is useless for the miniature game.

Most of my complaints are just nitpicking the game. The rules are well-written. The game is pretty fast paced, especially if you're already familiar with D&D. As a miniature painter/D&D player, I recommend both the miniatures and the miniature game they come with.

There are several criteria by which I came to a 4 star judgement. Others may emphasize different aspects of the Harbinger miniatures - so it's important to know how I'm grading them.
1)Miniatures gaming system: the basic handbook that comes with the entry pack provides you with an important understanding of the skirmishes rules. The rules have been designed to facilitate much quicker battle resolution than with the more complicated combat system provided by the D&D RPG (unless you include too many combatants). The rules are for the most part understandable, with only a few complications. The miniatures are useful as a stand-alone product, and they come with their own statistic cards. (you can also play mass battles with the miniatures, rules are provided for that as well - but I have little personal interest in it)
AND These statistic cards can transform this stand-alone game into an accessory to your normal D&D RPG campaign to supplement battles - using the miniature battle system OR by using the reverse side of the stat card to use the miniature in the normal D&D combat rules.
2)Aesthetic: The miniature are POORLY painted, and are often bent (they are plastic, not metal). This upsets me given that I took great care to paint the old metal ones.
3)Randomization: For the old miniature players - its frustrating to not be able to custom assemble your army piece by piece. The current D&D miniatures come in randomized packs (much like Magic cards) - you don't know what you will get and you'll often be forced to trade to assemble armies to your satisfaction. This feature increases their collectibility, however and may be seen as a bonus rather than as a drawback (as I saw it).

In all, I believe that the miniatures are fairly affordable when compared to their metal predecessors. Their stand-alone playability makes them increasingly worthwhile for those that have no interest in standard RPGs. Lastly, I find their combat rules to be well written and brilliantly devised, while still based on creatures appearing in the various monster manuals.

Seriously, I've seen a lot of reviews insulting these new miniatures. Like the elf archer with an unpainted bow... maybe some of them are painted, just to make it different? Or the bow could always be made of darkwood, use your imagination, it IS a fantasy game. I love the fact the figures are hardcore plastic and prepainted, I really don't have the time or patience to paint the old metal ones. Not to mention the price ... the Entry pack alone, which has 16 random mini's, costs less at full price than one of the old set with only five characters. Why complain ? Be happy and rejoice in the laziness of it... and my orc army! Mwahahahahaa!

I have bought one entry pack of minis and one expansion pack from the Harbringer set. I have looked the models and have the following thoughts on them. The small and medium models with extermely small faces are just painted over without thought to extra detail(or redoing as some of paint wasn't on the face of one of my models) as well as any of the small items. However, the larger models, in my humble opinion, are done much better.

I think that if you don't like them or if you want to add extra or different details that you should repaint them. At least you don't have to glue them and find out that they don't fit together right.

So, if you don't want to spend a lot of time or money painting and are willing to have minis of mixed quality, then this set is good. If you are a diehard painter, convert kits, or want different looking models then you should go to another company.

As for me, I will probably buy a couple more packs and then try to find someone to trade figures with. I hope the Dragoneye and Archfiend set that I have heard about have taken consumer comments into account. Quick tangent, if the expansion were priced something like 10 figures for $15 and the paint jobs were a bit better, then I would be all over those packs.

If you are a perfectionist about how well detailed your minis' should be then don't buy them. Go out and by the unpainted ones and derive your pleasure from painting in addition to gaming. If, however you are like most other people (myself included) who just want to enjoy the game and use miniatures for combat in DnD (mostly for visual ease) then by all means purchase them. For the money they can't be beat.

I think it has been approximately one year since I bought my first harbinger miniatures. Since then, they have doubled (or more) in value. Now, it is nearly impossible to find a harbinger set anywhere.

My only regret is that I sold my harbinger displacer beast for $5, about 9 months ago! I thought the buyer was a sucker for paying almost as much for one miniature as I paid for the entire booster! But, now I realize that I'm the idiot. If you can find a displacer beast today, you'll probably pay at least $30 for it.

The good thing is that WoC is continuing to crank out a set every 3-4 months. The new sets have a higher percentage of rares and fewer miniatures (so, there is more chance to receive duplicates), but the variety and quality of the miniatures is as good or better. I love the huge minis in the giants collection, and the new aberrations collection contains a lot of nice monsters as common and uncommon figures. Archfiends contains a lot of nice villans, too. The Death's Knell collection of undead (scheduled for March 2005) should be a welcome collection for dungeon masters, too.

It is true that these miniatures are mass produced. The paint jobs are sometimes lacking. But, overall, the quality is good. The new flexible plastic material is awesome, as it is now possible to carry miniatures around and even use them in games without worrying about them eventually breaking. I bring them to games in a regular suitcase (no foam, no individual compartments .. just one big pile). Sometimes, they are bent when I first receive them in the mail, but this can be fixed by applying some heat. In general, it is extremely difficult to bend them and it is nearly impossible to break them (my wife likes to test this). I imagine that the durability has allowed WoC to produce and distribute these with much less cost.

Overall, I am extremely impressed with WoC's management of the D&D license. D20 was, by far, their greatest contribution to the community. Their simplified rules (i.e., 3rd edition and now the Basic Set) are probably my second favorite contribution. Their miniature lines are a close third.

P.S. Don't bother buying Harbinger on Amazon or any of the other sites still advertising it. Amazon will send you several emails as they delay processing of your order, then they will finally cancel your order as they are "unable to locate the inventory". Instead, invest in one of the more recent miniature collections (dragoneye, archfiends, giants, or aberrations).

These miniatures are not great, but they are good because

1) you get a lot of them for the money.
2) The paint jobs are "ok"
3) You dont have to worry about them.
4) The base size tells you the size of the critter (s, m, l)
5) Like the other guy said, you throw them in a bag, and you dont have to carry around the figure case.

I you want to paint the ultra detail figs, stick with the old ones. But if you dont want to worry about all that, and just have something to play with, buy these.

I put off buying the WOTC D&D minis, because for years I painted my own and these oens didn't seem near as good. However, two factors make them useful:
1) Light weight. Lead/pewter minis weigh a TON, and carrying two cases of them is a drag.
2) These plastic minis are very tough, they don't chip, break etc. Thus you cna carry a bag full of 'em, with little hassle.

Only downer is, the early sets weren't as good in paint quality and design as more recent ones. Thus, I bought this more for completeness, than actual usage ;) And I still haven't got na umber hulk...lol.

Well, Chain Mail has come and gone and now Wizards of the Coast is trying its second foray into the miniatures gaming market. On the heels of the WizKids figure games, Wizards has released the D&D Miniatures Line, starting with an entry pack and followed up a set of boosters in the first release, called the Harbinger line.

The Harbinger line consists of 80 miniatures, 27 of which are rare. The entry pack includes 16 of these miniatures, and maps and tiles necessary to play.

Let's start by discussing what this game is and what it is not.

It's a line of figures meant for play in the D&D game. Some of these figures are familiar (I own two tiefling captains now, having bought one from Chain Mail), but none of these have been sold by Wizards painted before. The cards included inside have stats for both the miniatures game and D&D (there's one per figure), for use in your tabletop game.
It's an entry level game for players that don't play D&D. It's also a method of rating costs of each member of a force, for those who wish to run skirmish battles with equally matched sides.

It's NOT an exciting new game for those who already play D&D. There is very little difference between these rules and those of the D&D game. There are some additional rules: the value of each piece, routing and command rules, as well as rules for setting up the board in a manner that is fair for both sides, but at its heart it's just a slightly different subset (although that word might do the system a disservice) of the D&D rules.

Marketing

Okay, now I'm going to go into rant mode, because this is the part of the system that annoys me the most. I'm not a fan of collectable miniatures marketing. I've actually boycotted the new Mechwarrior game for exactly that reason. If I want an Umber Hulk fig, a want to be able to go out and buy an Umber Hulk fig. There are people selling the individual figs outside the box, but all the online sources that I've found are charging up to $10 for a rare fig, the price of an entire booster. Also, because there are only 80 figs, but more than a quarter of them are rare, despite the fact that only one out of eight figs purchased in booster have that same level of value, you must by 216 figs to even have the CHANCE to get a complete set.

So the fact that Wizards has bought into this line of thinking (not that it's a big step for them, considering they created it with Magic the Gathering) has made me very sad and a little angry. This won't be a consideration for many of you, but I couldn't write a review in good conscience and not mention it.

What's even more annoying is that I want to go buy them anyway.

The Figures

The figures themselves are passable. The sculpting is decent but the details are somewhat blurry, probably due to the fact they're made out of plastic. The paint jobs are merely passable, but I believe these figs are smaller that the figs coming out in other games (which isn't a mark against them, because they're scaled for D&D) and that probably accounts for the disparity of quality. I could paint them better, but these days, I just don't have the time.

The game is broken into four factions. The entry pack has 16 figs. Some of the figs in the line can be used by multiple factions. You can have up to 100 points and 12 figs on one side. Here are the armies you could make from what I received in my entry pack:

Lawful Good:
Ember Human Monk 18 Points
Evoker's Apprentice 10 Points
Wolf (Any Align) 5 Points

Total 23 points

Chaotic Good:
Centaur 20 Points
Wolf (Any Align) 5 Points

Total 25 Points

Lawful Evil:
Half Orc Fighter (Commander) 21 Points
Azer Raider (LE or CE) 5 Points
Zombie (LE or CE) 4 Points
Wolf (Any Align) 5 Points
Goblin Sneak 6 Points
Kobold Warrior 3 Points
Hell Hound 10 Points

Total 54 Points

Chaotic Evil:
Teifling Captain (Commander) 21 Points
Orc Spearfighter 5 Points
Orc Archer 8 Points
Ghoul 14 Points
Hyena 4 Points
Human Bandit 3 Points
Azer Raider (LE or CE) 5 Points
Zombie (LE or CE) 4 Points
Wolf (Any Align) 5 Points

Total 69 Points

So I can, from the box, field a decent Chaotic Evil force and a so/so Lawful Evil force. Because of the command rules, I can't field a good force at all, without buying more boosters ( have no good commanders). Since I'm the type that usually plays the guys in the white hats, this means that I can't get the most out of my game.

Still, setting that aside, I now have some decent figs for my D&D game. I've quizzed down some of the local retailers in my area and it seems that this is the reason MOST people are buying the figures.

Gameplay

As I said above, the rules are a straightforward adaptation of the D&D rules. They made things a little simpler. Criticals don't need to be activated. Damage is a set value. There is only one value for cover. Other than that, the rules are much as you'd expect.

They've been expanded, too. Characters must be in command to act in a tactical fashion, but for swarm tactics, with figs with the same movement, you can launch good plans involving out of command flanking units. There are also morale checks, with the usual triggers, such as when a fig reaches half hit points. The terrain consists of a straightforward grid with terrain pieces (essentially pieces of printed cardboard) which the players can use to try to build an environment conducive to their strategy.

The game plays quickly and is fun. When I played it again, before writing this review, I essentially played myself. Despite the inherent bore of playing without an opponent, I found myself eager to set up again when the game was done, to see if I could win with the losing side in a rematch.

I'm actually excited to see the Miniatures Handbook, which may or may not be available by the time you read this review. It proposes to offer what Wizards needs the most, and that is a strategic miniatures game, to act as a mass combat system. We'll see if it can deliver what the community needs the most, and turn this into a game that can appeal to the D&D player who's looking for more than a line of figs to pretty up his or her gaming table.

Conclusion

The miniatures game is fast enough and easy enough to play, buy it probably won't have a lot of appeal to the D&D player, who could have done most of this on their own. The cheep miniatures with their adequate paint jobs will be the biggest draw for most people, if they don't mind buying blind boosters. I think this has something for everyone, though it might not be the hit for which Wizards is looking.

I've ordered 4 boosters, 1 entry, and a miniatures handbook on september 2, 2003 - yet i still havn't recieved a notice from Amazon.ca...