Customer Reviews

One People, Two Worlds: A Reform Rabbi and an Orthodox Rabbi Explore the Issues That Divide Them

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This book was apparently supposed to be a debate between an Orthodox rabbi and a Reform rabbi. Although this book was certainly easy to read, it didn't quite live up to its promise, and here's why: only one side was debating the most important issues. The Orthodox rabbi (Reinman) was simply a better debater, because rather than being enmeshed in trivia, he consistently focused on the most important theological issues separating Orthodox from Reform, such as the divine authorship (or lack thereof) of the Torah and the divine role in post-Biblical Jewish law.

By contrast, the Reform rabbi (Hirsch) gave these issues short shrift, focusing to a much greater extent on the intracacies of Israeli politics and other matters that I (and Reinman) consider relatively trivial. For example, after Reinman spent six pages trying to debunk the idea that the Torah was written by multiple authors, Hirsch responds in a paragraph or two (p. 245). Reinman wrote the perfect response to Hirsch's discussion of the obnoxious behavior of some of Israel's Orthodox politicians: "I do not know much about what goes on in Israeli politics, nor do I care to find out. Spare me." ((p. 300).

It as almost as if Hirsch and Reinman were trying to prove entirely separate points: while Reinman tries to persuade us that we should all be Orthodox, Hirsch tries to persuade us that some Orthodox Jews don't live up to their ideals and others aren't particularly good citizens. As one or two other reviewers indicated, someone who read this book with minimal knowledge would certainly be swayed towards the Orthodox point of view, precisely because Reinman focuses on the key theological issues and Hirsch doesn't.

Does this mean Reinman is right? No, only that he was virtually unopposed on some issues. I dare say that the right opponent could have given Reinman a much more difficult time. (I am not knowledgeable enough to express an opinion as to who "the right opponent" would be).

A side point: on non-theological, non-halachic issues, Reinman's position should not be considered "THE Orthodox position." For example, many Orthodox Jews are far more supportive of Israel and of Zionism than is Reinman (who seems to believe that a somewhat secular Israel is only slightly, if at all, better than no Israel at all).

I am your typical Jewish guy from New Jersey with the typical Sunday school education. I Moved out to Memphis with my girlfriend to get away from the inner city traffic. I always considered myself Reform since it is the least radical form of Judaism. So, my girlfriend's mother sends us this book that seemingly has everyone including countless newspapers debating titled, "One People Two Worlds". For no reason other then boredom, I became deeply engaged. At first, I found myself consistently agreeing with Rabbi Hirsh. I thought the other Rabbi [Reinman] was just a right wing fundamentalist with outdated logic and beliefs. At some point while I was reading the book and yelling obscenities directed towards Rabbi Reinman as to why he thinks he knows it all, my girlfriend challenged me saying, that I was being intellectually dishonest by always agreeing with the side that was more inline with my beliefs. She suggested that I play devils advocate and should try to establish a case for the Orthodox point of view. To my amazement, not only did my arguments sound reasonable, I started questioning Rabbi Hirsh's points. To make a long story short, after reading the majority of this book at least six times, we both agreed that we would like to learn more about orthodox Judaism. So, after researching this endeavor, we decided to go study at Aish Hatorah in Israel and discover the real meaning of Judaism. The one thing that really irked me is how Rabbi Hirsh can use one or two examples of the Talmud to strengthen his argument for the Reform point of view while at the same time rejecting the rest of the Talmud. I found this book intellectually challenging and if read with an open mind, It can really take you places (I can save you a spot next to me at Aish). Thank You Rabbi Reinman for the gift of life.

This is a good start towards unraveling the debate between Orthodox and Reform Judaism. Special clarity is given to many of the fundamental aspects of both. For instance from the beginning we see these two men, one in his traditional attire and the other in his modern dress. Most important and interesting is the variety of subjects touched upon and the many citations from the Talmud and Maimonadies among others. This is an interesting read dealing a with a rarely addressed issue, namely the major disputation betweens to two extremes of Judaism. The reform position vis-à-vis womens status and rationalizing the refusal to adhere to some old traditions is explicated here. Evident here is also the very scholarly nature of orthodox Judaism, and it is a shame the Reform Rabbi was not better versed because he is clearly demolished in many of the arguments and appears to shy away from directly confronting Reinmans points.

The great failing here is that it is not entirely topical, the reading gets bogged down in places and there is little to interest the reader and keep the reader involved. Its interesting that the entire text is presented in letter form, but this also leaves much to be desired. The men were not overly fastidious in their organization and theirfore the book begins to break down. A good start and a good idea but the book needs some work. Really whats needed is a book written by both a reform, conservative and orthodox rabbi explaining the key differences in their practices and adherences.

One People, Two Worlds: A Reform Rabbi And An Orthodox Rabbi Explore The Issues That Divide Them is a candid but respectful mutual exploration and exchange of ideas between Reform Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch and Orthodox Rabbi Yosef Reinman. Virtually every divisive issue upon which Orthodox and Reform Jews differ is vigerously debated, from the role of women and the value of secular culture, to the existence of a Supreme Being and differing beliefs about Israel. Though the disagreements are sharp, these two very different Rabbis have a deep respect and liking for one another in this thought-provoking and very welcome contribution to Judaic Studies reading lists.

I am afraid that I have to disagree with the majority of reviews on this site. I do not think that this book does anything for dialogue (limited as it is) between "secular"/progressive denominations such as Reform and (Ultra)-Orthodoxy.

As I read I felt as if the two Rabbi's were talking at each other, and not to one another. Worse, neither of them seemed capable of directly addressing the comments, concerns or criticisms of their fellow participant. Instead they obfuscated, and used rhetoric in place of solid logic (Talmudic or otherwise). The issues I had hoped the authors would choose speak to were the fundemental assumptions upon which their understanding of Judaism was based. Instead they seemed more interested in parables/stories (which I recognize for its Yiddishekit, but it lacks substance for this dialogue)which seemed to have minimal relevance.

I do not know what book to suggest in its stead, but I personally did not find it useful as a Jew trying to sort out their religious/spiritual position, nor as an academic.

The main perspective of Classical, a.k.a. Orthodox Judaism is that the Torah (written and oral) is divine; and accordingly a series of discussions and decisions (including the Talmud which describes the oral law) throughout thousands of years exist to go along with the divine word; but the words and laws in those words should not be changed.

The main perspective of Reform Judaism is that the Torah is probably of human origin, but throughout thousands of years there have been discussions and decisions of how to adapt the torah to current life. This includes the Talmud which presented a snapshot of feelings of the time from over a thousand years ago; there is no summary of Jewish laws. It is better to have laws and morals that align with society.

Some of the "arguments" in this book include the following
Is the torah divine?
Are men and women the same (and not in the physical or emotional sense)?
Do values (including financial status and career prestige) originate in surrounding society?
Is religious history relevant to current practice?
Should labels be used to describe groups of people and if so should these labels based on character or based on physical activities.

In terms of the "debate" though a lot is left to be desired.
The Orthodox Rabbi often quotes text of other documents and shows how the translation has been understood for thousands of years.
The Reform Rabbi often says that he has a different interpretation; which makes thousands of years of history irrelevant.
The Reform Rabbi is often convincing that he personally knows what he is doing is right, even though he can't explain why.
The Orthodox Rabbi is often convincing that he knows what he is doing follows the actions of millions of Jews over thousands of years and therefore must be right. This makes the Orthodox Rabbi a much better debater if you give him the benefit of the doubt that there might be such a thing as a Torah. If you reject the existence of a Torah then the Reform Rabbi is a superior debater.

The key basis of the book comes down to this:
Orthodox Rabbi: I trace my activities to the Torah and i can show you why/when and how.
Reform Rabbi: I trace my heritage to the Torah but i can act how I know is right.
The points are not really in conflict as much as the title page would have you believe.

In terms of the scientific method. There isn't a major statistical analysis here. However the Reform Rabbi makes more claims based on emotion, therefore his arguments are more easily refuted.

In terms of writing style the Reform Rabbi is a bit more hostile. The Orthodox Rabbi is harder to follow.

This was a fun book to read but you would be better off with a single book from each perspective. The Orthodox Rabbi presents a list of these such books in his closing statements. I am not aware that any book has been written summarizing Reform Judaism but i will edit this review to include a summary when i find it; but it might be hard to find a good book that says you have to make your own decisions all the time.

Lightning Round- name calling edition:
Orthodox: Fundamentalist
Reform: Moral Relativist

Final word
Reform Judaism: Personal
Orthodox Judaism: True

In this book, Reform Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch, and Orthodox Rabbi Yakov Yosef Reinman debate the issues dividing these two branches of Judaism. Both are deeply learned in texts, including the Jewish Bible and Talmud. The book was written over a period of a year and a half as the two authors exchanged emails. This email dialogue constitutes the text of this book. Poignantly, their afterwords, constituting the final chapter of the book, were written in the immediate aftermath of the 9/11/01 tragedy.

Often, Rabbi Hirsch quotes a talmudic passage and analyzes it and then, in rebuttal, Rabbi Reinman quotes the same passage but puts it in a larger setting. Therefore, Rabbi Reinman concludes that Rabbi Hirsch cited the passage in an inaccurate context thus giving the wrong conclusion as to its meaning. The two are miles apart on key issues. The most key issue is whether the Bible cites literal truth, such as whether the Torah was revealed at Mt. Sinai. Rabbi Reinman makes an interesting argument; he states that since the Torah says it was handed down from generation to generation, it must have been. Otherwise, the first generation to have received it would have said that their fathers never told them about the Torah thus it could not have been passed on throughout the generations. If the Torah was suddenly concocted, the generation which first received it would have known that it was not a revelation from Sinai since they never heard of it before its recent sudden appearance. I did not see Rabbi Hirsch give this rebuttal clearly but, I think the implication of Rabbi Hirsch's view is that Torah is written by man and that it evolved so, there was always a text that was taught. Over the centuries, editing and changes led to an evolving document which ultimately became what is now the Torah.

In a book such as this, we learn about the two different viewpoints of the authors. If there is any resolution to the debate, however, it is in the conclusion drawn by the reader. I doubt if many readers were changed from their preconceived viewpoints, thus, for the most part, the arguments are not resolved.

To me, one of the most unsolvable dilemas is in their discussion of the state of Israel. Rabbi Reinman states, if "the Orthodox prevail, the Israeli people will regain the moral high ground and the deep attachment to the land that will arouse them to defend it tenaciously and with idealistic conviction." His argument essentially is that it is necessary to believe that God gave the land to Abraham and by this divine decree, the state of Israel is properly a Jewish state. Predictably, Rabbi Hirsch disagrees. He believes that biblically, Israel is a Jewish state but he says that Torah transcends literal historic truth. The reason the argument is unsolvable is that if Rabbi Reinman is correct, then a fundamental interpretation of Torah and an observant lifestyle is necessary to lay claim to Israel and provide the motivation to defend it. Would that mean that because of this necessity, we must literally believe that God gave the land to Abraham? If after study and soul searching, someone does not believe this, then what? Does the necessity for this belief justify the belief that is not really accepted? How can someone believe what he/she does not believe? This paradox is not easily resolved.

I recommend this book. It is insightful as to the arguments of both sides. Both of the authors represent their sides of the argument well and honorably. The Reform can be proud to have Rabbi Hirsch as its spokesman and the Orthodox can be equally proud to have Rabbi Reiman represent its views.

Very much enjoyed this book, I read it eagerly from cover to cover and will do so again. Contrary to most of the other commenters, I found Rabbi Hirsch's ideas more convincing and better written, but found Rabbi Reinman's portions thought-provoking and informative too. Highly recommended.

I thought this book was fantastic, and I really learned a lot about both Classical (Orthodox) and Reform Judaism. I agree with some of the other reviews that say some arguments were one-sided, but this doesn't affect my opinion of the book. I certainly didn't expect both sides to write equal amounts about each topic brought up. Besides, each rabbi claimed ignorance to an issue or two and thus there was not much of a debate on certain issues. Most issues, though, were covered in depth and views from both a reform and orthodox viewpoint were presented. I highly recommend.
At the end Reinman has a great list of books for further study of judaism.

This is a great book. It explores the differences between Classical (Orthodox) Judaism and Secular (Reform) Judaism in a clear and straightforward way. Classical Rabbi Yosef Reinman engages in a dialog with Secular Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch. The dialog shows that Reinman's points are always better than Hirsch's ones, but I don't think that it is because Reinman is a better spokesman than Hirsch, but because Hirsch has the impossible mission of rationalize the secularization of Judaism. Hirsch lives in a relativistic world where majority decides what is true or right; Raiman lives in a world where G-d tells what is true or right through Torah. A wonderful reading!