Customer Reviews

Pagans & Christians: The Personal Spiritual Experience

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So much of modern Neo-Pagan literature published today is composed of oversimplified "how to" books. There is little if nothing published about the philosophical components of the Neo-Pagan religions.

DiZerega works very hard to build a common ground of terms and ideas from which interfaith dialogue can emerge. diZerega respects the beliefs of both Christians and Pagans as "unique and valuable" ways of knowing "the Sacred," a view that invites not just tolerance but genuine interest in learning from one another.

Rather than falling back on pseudo-history to explain why Pagans believe as they do, DiZerega uses his Ph.D. in political science and his fifteen years as a Gardnerian to deconstruct Pagan theology and philosophy in ways that make them easily accessible to both Pagans and non Pagans.

The first part of this book discusses the Neo-Pagan worldview. Topics range form perception of time and ethics to conceptions of the divine. I found this section to be highly informative and easy to digest.

The second part of this book, "Christian Criticisms of Wicca," discusses and attempts to answer many of the issues a lot of Christians have about Wicca and other Neo-Pagan religions. DiZerega discusses the nature of suffering and evil, spiritual authority, ethics and morality, clergy, and more. He answers the standard Christian objections with respect and with numerous quotes from the Bible. While this section is unlikely to convince many Fundamentalist Christians that Pagans are not following Satan it is well thought out and would hopefully be well received by a majority of non-Fundamentalist Christians.

The third section of Pagans & Christians addresses the some of issues Pagans often have with Christianity the perception that Christians are intolerant of others. DiZerega explains how most of the objections many Pagans have with Christianity simply aren't supported by the Bible and Christian tradition. In other words, many of the problems Pagans have with Christianity aren't really with the teachings of Christianity in general, but with the teachings of a relatively small number of fundamentalist Christian sects who shout down the larger, open-minded groups.

DiZerega does not pretend to have all the answers, but sets the reader on the path of finding his or her own answers.

As someone who enjoys interfaith discussions, I am constantly looking for books that compare religions in an attempt to show the beauty of each and the interrelationships among all of them. As I read "Pagans and Christians: The Personal Spiritual Experience" by Gus diZerega, I found it to be an eloquent description of this very process with an unsuccessful attempt to actually do it.

DiZerega -- an Elder of Gardnerian Wicca -- begins his dialogue by describing the basic precepts behind Paganism. This is the strongest part of his book, as it is completely within his realm of expertise. The author manages to capture some of the defining elements of Pagan religions without being vague or to restrictive in his definition.

The book then goes on to discuss some of the basic concepts of Wicca -- from a clearly traditional perspective, however -- in order to give more concrete examples of the original concepts. By doing this, the author enables his non-Pagan readers to have a clear idea of some ways Paganism can express itself. By doing this only after giving the more abstract concepts, however, he makes it clear that this is not the only possible or valid expression.

In the next section of the book, the author begins to offer explanations for some of the criticisms Christians have of Paganism. While I found this section intellectually interesting, I must admit that it was troublesome on a personal level at times. While I followed his reasoning and tended to agree with it, the material failed to resonate with my own being. This is at least in part due to the fact that some of diZeraga's ideas lie outside the realm of my own personal experiences. Because of this, i suspect that a Christian -- who has even less personal experience in common with the author than I do -- may not follow his arguments. This is a genuine and normal problem when intellectually explain that which is meant to be experiential.

In the chapter that debated the process of gaining spiritual understanding through nature and personal experience versus gaining it through a sacred text, I found that the author got heavy-handed. While I agree with his claim that the interpretation of any sacred text is not objective, I do not see the point in spending a whole chapter arguing the point. A Christian reader would most likely either acknowledge the point immediately or deny it despite any arguments made -- and quite possibly despite a verse in their own sacred texts that says as much. As such, the whole exercise seemed either needless or pointless.

My final criticism is that diZerega's interfaith discussion was one-sided. In most of the book, he defended Paganism while making some valid criticisms about Christianity. To maintain a more balanced discussion, he should have addressed valid criticisms of Paganism and dispelled those made about Christianity that have no merit. In fairness, I suspect that the author lacks the understanding of Christian spirituality and theology to successfully attempt the latter. Perhaps another will seek to fill in this gap. In the meantime, I do credit diZerega with the fact that he does not seek to invalidate Christianity through his criticisms.

After setting sucha foundation, diZerega begins to point out the distinct and complementary points of value in each of the religions. In doing so, he sets a groundwork for the process of Christians and Pagans learning from one antoher -- enhancing one's own religion through the appreciation of the other's.

In the greatest sense, this book ends at a beginning. It suggests new avenues of thought and perception. It would be best used as a common foundation for Pagans and Christians who wish to understand one another. For this purpose, the author provides many points for discussion and thoughts to springboard into a deeper joint study of spirituality.

The basic premise of this book is that both Paganism and Christianity can be "right". DiZerega posits that the two traditions have more in common than they realize, and that both paths are valid for those who follow them. There is a place in this world for both religions.

Being a Wiccan himself, diZerega focuses mainly on Pagan beliefs. He explains what Pagans believe, and rebuts Christian misconceptions of Paganism, in a well-documented text that is intelligently written and yet not pedantic. He also challenges the belief that Christianity is the one true way, using both Scripture and his own beliefs to back up his claim.

I would recommend this book to any Christian who has a Pagan child, significant other, or friend. Unfortunately, the Christians who truly need this book are of the closed-minded variety and wouldn't be listening anyway. If you believe that all Pagans are going to Hell, you aren't going to read this book, and even if you do, you won't consider its arguments. "Satanic propaganda, no doubt." And the open-minded Christians who are willing to accept Paganism as a valid spiritual path for some? They don't need this book. They already know there is a placxe in the world for many different belief systems. If certain uber-conservative political figures were to read this book and truly consider it, the US might be a better place. But they won't. Mostly, Pagans and open-minded Christians will read it. DiZerega is preaching to the choir.

Most of the literature currently available about Wicca is being presented in a watered-down, unattractive, regurgitated manner that offers the practitioner very little in the way of solid theology for personal growth. This book makes a delightful exception to the bland standard set by the publishing world.

DiZerega wrote this book with the intention of creating points of dialgoue between Christians and Pagans (especially Wiccans) so that each group might better understand the other, and in turn, enrich their personal spiritual experiences. This is probably the one way in which the book doesn't quite succeed--although there is a fountain of deep analysis of Wiccan ideas and philosophies, the book is heavily biased toward Wicca, and at times almost dismissive of Christian beliefs. However, if one reads this book as a study of Traditional Wiccan beliefs and theology, it is invaluable.

Much of the market is saturated with books on Ecelectic Wicca 101, so much so these days that if you've read two or three, you've read them all. "Pagans & Christians" is a much needed departure from that, offering the reader insight, thoughts to chew on, and perhaps most necessary, a peek into the philosophy of Traditional Wicca. This is an important book for the Wiccan religion, and one that all serious students should have on their bookshelves.

I was really, REALLY surprised by this book. I have never been particularly impressed by the quality of writing in "pagan"- or "wicca"-oriented books (Margot Adler excepted) so I didn't get my hopes too high for this one. Coming from a liberal Christian/Hermetic background, writers such as John Spong, Peter Gomes, Huston Smith and John Dominic Crossan have been the sort of quality I've been used to in my religious reading. Now, I my book, Dr. Dizerega can stand on his own in this stellar company. His writing is reverent, respectful and always scholarly. His quotation of the ancient Pagan philosophers is compelling and persuasive, and gives some real weight to his arguments for Paganism as a valid religious tradition. He also knows his way around the Bible, too, and his admiration for the best in the Christian tradition, particularly of Jesus Himself, shines through. As one who is finding himself increasingly split between both Christian and Pagan worlds, this book is a Godsend. Unfortunately, the editors at Llewellyn didn't give this author the attention or respect he deserves, and a lot of typos have found their way into this edition. Regardless, this book is an asset to Llewellyn's catalogue and to my bookshelf. If you are a Pagan of any sort or tradition, or if you are a Christian who is curious or in spiritual "transition", then by all means, GET THIS BOOK! I have recommended a lot of quality religious/spiritual books to my friends, and now I have a Pagan book to recommend as well. It's about time. Give us more, Gus!

For what it's worth, I'm approaching the book from a Neopagan perspective. I had this book on my wish list for awhile (on account of the title and reviews here), until I saw the book and flipped through it.

It looked ... well, not really useful. I couldn't tell who the audience was. If the book is for Pagans, its section on "errors in the Bible" seemed to reinforce the erroneous notion that many Pagans have of all Christians being legalistic fundamentalists. Additionally, this section seemed to encourage the notion that Pagans should feel free to "dish out the same" to fundamentalists, when I think that such serves no purpose. Knowing a list of factual errors in the Bible without understanding the culture and tradition where it is read means that in many cases, people are apt to misunderstand the traditional interpretation of such verses and get just as tangled in their own arguments as fundamentalists are in theirs. Also, for Pagans, it presents a rather simplified Christianity - I'm don't think most people would finish the book with a better understanding of Christianity than they already have.

If the book is for Christians, I think they'd find the book a bit too much on the order of "Pagans and Christians really believe the same thing". The book seemed to gloss over the differences between the two religions, which I suspect even liberal Christians would find disrespectful. Additionally, parts of the book sound antagonistic to Christians, and verges on blaming them for oppression of Wiccans. I suspect would be a turn-off to those reading it. Also, despite the title, it only discusses Wiccan theology, ignoring the wide variety of other religions that share the umbrella term "Neopagan". As a non-Wiccan Neopagan, I don't feel that a Christian reader would have any useful knowledge of my religion after reading this book. And finally, liberal Christians probably agree with many of his points already, while fundamentalists are unlikely to ever read the book.

I didn't come away from reading a couple of the chapters and skimming over the others with any sense that by reading the book carefully, I'd gain insight either into Christianity, Neopaganism, or any particular person's personal spiritual experience. I think the book tried to do too many things at once, and ended up not really doing any of them well.

Having an extensive Christian past and being reletively new to Paganism I found this book very worthwhile and have even sent it to my parents since I read it. It is not written in an accusatory tone and it is clear that a great deal of thought and preparation has gone into it.

The first part of the book introduces the reader to Paganism in general and Wicca specifically, and to Pagan spitrituality. The author says he is Wiccan and the Pagan views in the book do seem to reflect that. It is a good introduction I think, especially if the reader has no prior knowledge of Pagan practices at all besides mass media.

In the second part of the book addresses and effectively I think invalidates Christian criticisms of Paganism. He does occasionally go off on tangents but usually gets to his point by the time he is back. The tangents he takes are not necessarily bad either, just sometimes unexpected.

The third part of the book addresses Pagan criticisms of Christianity. I thought that he did this well. Though some Christians may be offended at his interpretation of some scriptures, because they are not the traditional interpretations, they are not illogical or off the wall interpretations in my mind either. And many of his conclusions are much more intuitive and logical than one will find or hear in the mainstream of Christian doctrine.

The last chapter really described his personal spiritual view of Christianity and Paganism and the good things from both that can be garnered to enrich your personal tradition whether you are Pagan, Christian or of another religion entirely.

Though I do not necessarily agree with everything that the author says, I cannot at the moment think of the things I thought I needed to think about. I found the work thoughtful and sincere and not written in a way intended to offend anyone. Some Christians may find themselves offended, simply because to come to any kind of common ground they must acknowledge there are other religions in the world that are valid spiritual paths for people, and that the same shoe does not fit everyone's foot. That fact in and of itself will be hard for many. If anyone reads this book with an open mind though, I think they will gain from it. Above all it teaches love, respect and tolerance, which are common principles in most of the world's religions, though many seem to have problems when putting these principles in actual practice.

In this time of interfaith dialog, this book assists Christians and Pagans/Earth Religionists (and others) to understand the viewpoints from which each group operates with emphasis on how each religion relates to the natural world.

DiZerega is respectful whilst discussing differences and similarities between the worldviews in question. In clear and readable prose he compares and contrasts the Pagan and Christian worldviews, covering areas such as cyclic vs linear time, relationship with the natural world, spiritual authority and the nature of suffering. Whether the reader is Christian or Pagan, this book will enrich their view of their own religion and promote understanding of the Other. This book is a valuable contribution to the discourse on religion in America.

There are rather few books on Paganism that make any effort to contrast it with Christianity. This is one of them. And yes, it tries to find some common ground between Pagans and Christians. It also looks at differences between them.

diZerega begins by stating that while Pagans are quite varied in their approaches to religion, there are five characteristics that are typically associated with Paganism, namely Pantheism (or Panentheism), Animism, Polytheism, cyclical as opposed to linear reality, and the lack of an Ultimate Evil.

That's an interesting claim. It may well be true.

Unlike the author, I'm not too interested in whether there is an underlying unity to divinity. I think we've seen far too much of that way of "thinking" from the "monotheists." If by unity, we mean reality and perfection, that's fine. But the whole point of Polytheism, to my way of thinking, is that the Goddesses and Gods are perfections of attributes. That is the most they can be. The Christian god is far less than that, in my opinion, because by being defined to be bad at nothing, it can not be good at anything either.

diZerega does not mention the difference between a "first cause" monotheist god and the very different Polytheist Gods and Goddesses. Once again, by making their god the first cause, I think the monotheists rendered it far less than any real Goddess or God. A first cause needs to be infinitely weak, otherwise something even weaker would have had to create it.

The author mentions that some Jews and Muslims think Christianity is basically Polytheistic. That's because the Trinity seems like three deities. One could also argue that the Saints are actually an entire Pantheon. I don't buy either of these arguments. Instead, I dismiss Judaism, Islam, and Christianity as atheism. My flippant reason is that their adherents believe in so few gods that they are basically no different than atheists, but I think you can see my real reasoning in the preceding paragraphs.

Now, what about idol worship? Here, the author makes the excellent point that Pagans do not think that idols are actual deities. Instead, many of us focus on the idols and on ourselves. Actually many Christians do the same with statues of their heroes.

I think the distinction between cyclic and linear views of reality is valid. Authors such as Walter Kaufmann have stated that Judaism in particular emphasizes the uniqueness of reality. There is one universe, it was created, and it moves linearly through time. Things happen once, and that is it. Most Pagans tend towards a very different view, one where the universe always exists, and recurring phenomena, including rebirth become significant.

diZerega now makes a major point with which I strongly agree. He says that three major aspects of Paganism that makes it different from Christianity are:

1) Religious pluralism

2) Harmony rather than salvation as the primary religious focus

3) Greater respect for personal experience than faith or the experiences of others as a valid criterion for spiritual truth

I think he got that right! This may explain why many Pagans feel offended when authoritarian monotheists try to dictate how we ought to worship, or cite religious authorities as experts on spirituality, or preach intolerance of those who have "incorrect" religious views. He contrasts this with the intolerance of Christians for Christians of different sects, even before the Christians took over the Roman Empire. And he gives some evidence that this intolerance was what got the Christians in trouble with the relatively tolerant Romans.

The book has a brief but sincere description of Wicca. And then we get into Christian complaints about Wicca and Wiccan complaints about Christianity.

The Christian criticisms of Wicca fall into a three categories: Wicca does not address the problem of suffering and Evil, Wicca does not deal with the problem of malice, and Wicca not only denies the Bible but has no sacred scriptures to substitute for it. While I think these criticisms are probably invalid, I see no reason why Wicca needs to (or ought to) deal with suffering, malice, or evil, or have any sacred scriptures for that matter. diZerega spends a while attacking the Bible as inaccurate and self-inconsistent.

The Wiccan criticisms of Christianity start with Christianity's blindness to spirit and nature: Christians rarely sympathize with considering the material world sacred. The other criticism is, of course, Christianity's intolerance of multiple Deities.

I think this latter criticism is very serious. Humans are varied, live in all sorts of different locations, and are fickle. For all three reasons, we need a big Pantheon. Making Them into just one deity not only gets rid of Them all, it also gives tyrants an excuse to say that the only remaining deity rules the whole world and everyone in it, giving these tyrants an excuse to impose religious tyranny on their own people, their neighbors, and everyone else.

This is an interesting and thought-provoking book.

I am still on the 2nd chapter, but already I am absolutely overjoyed by this book. Reading this, I couldn't help saying "Yes! Yes! Yes!" out loud! So far Dizerega has truly expressed all and more than I could have ever hoped for. And his references to the Greek and Roman philosophers Celsus, Plotinus, Stoics, and Neo-Platonists ring with such musical sonorance in my ears (I have these books on my shelf and treasure them). Indeed, this erudite, historically accurate, and above all civilized yet not condescending, writing style makes this book a fantastic addition to your collection, whether you be a devout Christian who wants to understand or a devout Pagan who also wants to understand. :) Highly recommended.