Pathfinder beating the %$#^ outta DnD 4e in Sales?


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Initial post: Aug 28, 2009 11:26:06 AM PDT
Wraith Lord says:
Looking at the sales ranks here on Amazon, I was stunned seeing Pathfinder sales at #392 and then looked at the DnD 4e Core set, over 4,000 in rank and the PH2 was not much better at 3,900 or so. Is PF the nail in the coffin for 4.0?

Posted on Aug 28, 2009 12:35:48 PM PDT
Jarrod Henry says:
This is not precisely true. The Amazon Sales Rank is based on the last 24 hours, as well as other conditions. Most people who have the core set for 4e have had it for awhile, so sales of it are down.

Personally, I got PC today, and I like the look, but am a bit disappointed that the Paizo servers are down for the move, and that the monster book isn't coming out for three months.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2009 1:56:27 PM PDT
Wraith Lord says:
Ummm, did not know that about the sales ranks. I wonder how we could tell what the sales comparisons are at then, would be interesting to say the least. As far as the Monster book not coming out until Oct. well, thats one reason I have yet to jump at buying the book. I have the PDF version and it looks great and all, just wish they would have included the monsters or a starter set of creatures in the back of the book as well.

Tell you the truth, may sound funny but after reading through PF, I sorta started going back in my mind as to why I dumped 3.5 several years ago, way before 4.0 came out and I have to say its all the FEATS (which I hate, always too many) and all the Skills & Spells (too many), I mean, I don't mind a few but damn, I remember just how much I started hating the power gamer aspects of 3.5 and PF looks more and more like a rehash of the power gamers game. Its making me wish I never sold my 4.0 now, if you can believe that....

Posted on Aug 28, 2009 3:40:44 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 28, 2009 3:42:22 PM PDT
Jarrod Henry says:
I don't mind the 4e stuff. I don't mind the WoW like aspects. I don't mind the cooldowns. I don't mind the fact that the characters are balanced. I don't mind the fact that it's more board game than RPG.

What I mind most about the 4e stuff is that it seems like the game is never done. OH, you want THIS class? Well, buy this book. And this book. And he's Arcane, so you get this book for more powers.. and this book for more feats. Oh, he's in Eberron? Get THIS book to determine more powers for him.

For example, I wanted to run a Forgotten Realms game with some metallic dragons and one of my characters begged to be a druid, and had a few choices from the FR PHB too.

SO..

I would need:

PHB 1, PHB 2, GM 1, MM 1 , FRCG, FRPG, and.. since we would be leveling up soon, PP which is due out in October. Not to mention he wanted stuff from the AV1 and AV2.

Do you realize how many books that is? And that's not withstanding the fact that there are sanctioned playable items on the DND insider club.

So , missing 4e? Not wanting to memorize stuff? Just wait until there are 10 powers, each with 3 books, 15 classes, and 5 players handbooks.

And the sad thing?

I forgot the Dragonomicon.

Posted on Aug 28, 2009 3:59:11 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 28, 2009 3:59:53 PM PDT
Wraith Lord says:
All I had was the basic set and ran my own world, you can do it, nothing says you have to buy all those books, I didn't and never wanted more, I must be one of the few.....But I did sell them off to get PF and now I kinda regret it. Just give PF time, they will have a book for everything too, I have not seen anyone do a game that required only one or two books to play, the companies always look to push out way more than needed and the lemmings keep buying them up.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2009 5:03:13 PM PDT
Jarrod Henry says:
Actually, I do plenty with Savage Worlds with just one book. Sure, you can buy extras, but it tends to be so easy to mock stuff up that they tell players that the GMs rules are gold, and that kills rules lawyering.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2009 6:41:10 PM PDT
Wraith Lord says:
Yeah, I have Savage Worlds also, its a great and easy system, I also like the OMNI system in the game HELLAS, its simple too. I hate rules lawyers, I will stop a game when I get a person just spouting rules, these usually (at least in my GMing) always seem to be more prevalent in games with allot of Feats & special abilities. Savage Worlds seems to cut down on that and most rules lawyers seem not to wanna play it either, because they have no leg to stand on in it.

Posted on Aug 31, 2009 12:48:03 PM PDT
Almost everything I do in Call of Cthulhu is in the main book, I also use the newest monster manual for beasies and the dreamlands book to further torment my players after they think they are safe in bed. But the main book is all thats needed for a full adventure. Also, could run a ful adventure in the Dreamlands with just the Dreamlands book.

For BESM revised 2nd ed I have just the main book. For Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Other Strangeness I have just the main book. It's possible to get by without extra stuff in a lot of RPGs.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2009 2:37:41 PM PDT
Dhampir says:
The current number of expected books for them is pretty low and the Paizo team actually has said on their boards they want to keep it that way. They've got this Core book out and the Bestiary in October. They've got a DM screen and GM Guide coming out later. Next year they've got 1 title with new classes out for Gen Con. Thats 5 total items in a year. 2 to play. Not a lot comparing to what 4e dropped within a 1 year time frame.

Their setting material under the Pathfinder Chronicles line is expanding rapidly, but many of those books are pretty short and sweet. Packed full of stuff to flesh out the Golarion setting, but leaving the rules calls behind for the most part. They aren't required to play with the Pathfinder rule set.

Comparetively, some 4e titles like the FR books have classes, feats and such that can be FR specific, but easily transported elsewhere. AS long as you have that 1 specific FR book to start.

Posted on Aug 31, 2009 6:48:42 PM PDT
well, if you want to cut down on buying all the player books for 4e, just get the DnD Insider subscription, and use the character builder; it has information from every single player resource, including Power books, PHBs, Campaign settings, and Vaults.
And now with the Monster Builder, most of the crunchy stuff in the MM and other DM supplementals will be in there, espiecally when more Adventure tools come out

So basically, if you want the crunchy goodness, you don't need the books, only if you like the fluffiness do you need those.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2009 8:17:38 PM PDT
B. Bachelor says:
Normally when I purchase a book I have ready access to the content inside and can use it however I wish and whenever I like. The problem you say with 4e? Too many books (with very little "fluff" to begin with might I add). The answer you say? A paid subscription to all the content I can never own (unless I purchase ALL the books, after 1 year of publication that makes for 24 books to date. At ~$30 each that comes to $720.) and have no control over the content and will lose access once I stop paying a monthly fee? Not to mention how all the content can disappear at the snap of WotCs fingers like they pulled all of their PDF content. I'll pass thanks.

I'd rather pay $50 bucks for the Pathfinder core any day and risk feeling like an idiot than sink several hundreds of dollars and feeling really dumb and significantly poorer.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 14, 2009 8:46:13 PM PDT
D. Summers says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 14, 2009 8:48:47 PM PDT
D. Summers says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 14, 2009 8:56:37 PM PDT
Dhampir says:
That's your call on both then. My experience with 4e is limited, but less than enthusiastic. My problems with 3.5 are the same that most have had. I've found Pathfinder corrected them and provided some value added content to boot. I've got an entire bookshelf full of 3.X material with plenty of contradictions and power creep and in some cases plenty of just WFTery.

But I haven't found it to be a video game.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 15, 2009 7:05:04 AM PDT
Wraith Lord says:
D. Summers says:
"Pathfinder is a much hyped dud.
And every one knows WOTC is destroying D&D by virtually turning it into video game rules.
Pathfinder is just getting lucky that people are looking for that change, because simply put it really sucks. There are a few good ideas, but the good ideas could have been condensed into a $5 10 page supplement."

Well I think it is just the times we live in. I remember playing 1e AD&D and 2e AD&D and thinking the games were the greatest ever done, that is until I got a hold of a game called Chivalry & Sorcery 2e, that game was the best ever, and I still have it and the newer 3rd and 4th editions. It is more in line with historical Medieval times than D&D could ever be close to being and gives the proper feel for the era.
As far as video game pnp rpg's, well it seems thats what people want now, the newer generations have never known a world without a computer, I grew up when the only people that had computers were NORAD and the government. Its just a way for the RPG makers to keep the targeted audience buying their games "kids" and the kids today play video games...

Posted on Oct 1, 2009 12:36:02 PM PDT
John Bowden says:
Might want to point out, Pathfinder is NOT made as a new game, it IS supposed to be D&D 3.0,3.5,3.75 whatever.

What all of you are forgetting is, WoTC has STOPPED PRINTING D&D 3.5. No more books. No more base hardbacks. Period. Have to buy them used or new that's been stored away in a hole some place.

When those run out, you now have pathfinder to actually get a copy of the rules. Simple.

So no, this is not much of an upgrade. It's a company trying to make sure those that WANT 3.5 can actually find the rules.

Posted on Oct 3, 2009 6:38:58 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 3, 2009 6:39:33 PM PDT
greentiger says:
D. Summers says:
"Pathfinder is a much hyped dud.
And every one knows WOTC is destroying D&D by virtually turning it into video game rules.
Pathfinder is just getting lucky that people are looking for that change, because simply put it really sucks. There are a few good ideas, but the good ideas could have been condensed into a $5 10 page supplement."

WoTC did destroy D&D but I wouldn't go as far as saying Pathfinder is a much hyped dud. My group has switched to Pathfinder and they are really liking it, myself included. You're right that Paizo could have condensed the rule changes in a $5 supplement but I view the core rule book and bestiary (soon to be released) as a committment from Paizo to keep the 3.5 rule base alive and well, albeit some minor changes.

Personally, I'm not looking for the rules to be completely overhauled or a lot of good ideas added (though good ideas are not unwelcome either :). I just want some tweaks to keep the game fun. My players and I can easily keep the game interesting without complete rule changes. You can stick with the 3.5 rules if you'd like and Paizo's Pathfinder modules look to be 3.5 compatible with some minor tweaking. Well, at least the first module looks compatible anyway. :)

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 16, 2009 2:48:24 PM PDT
Julian says:
Thank you!

So many people seem to be missing this point. Pathfinder is keeping 3.5 in print. People that are just starting to get into 3.5 can buy the rules brand new, rather than hunting around in used book stores or online auction sites.

The people who are posting negative reviews and saying "This is just like 3.5." are obviously not clear on what Pathfinder is trying to achieve.

Posted on Oct 20, 2009 10:45:33 AM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Apr 15, 2010 9:36:50 AM PDT]

Posted on Oct 22, 2009 7:16:14 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 22, 2009 7:18:38 AM PDT
Jikuu says:
It's all a matter of taste. No need to sling mud at fellow gamers even when said gamers have different reasons for playing and have different opinions of the others around them.
I liked 3.5 because of the customization. I admit that it's the first system I played. I like Pathfinder for its tweaks where 3rd edition seemed to need fixing, and I think it was rather insightful to point out that Pathfinder's aim is more about keeping the 3.5 material around than trying to be new and awesome. Granted, using a torrent program will probably net you most of the 3.5 material anyway, but this is a more legal manner of doing so.
I turned away from 4th edition when all the classes felt bland and repetitive. One of 3.5's biggest flaws is that because most classes get a specialized mechanic, they will end up unbalanced when comparing utility in combat and social situations. 4th edition got rid of this by having all the classes work off of the same mechanic. The fluff wasn't enough to sate me there, unfortunately. I personally prefer the flavor of 3.5 while playing with an understanding GM and friendly gamers. I believe a lot of table top gaming deals with friendly social interaction between all parties involved. 3.5 is a lot easier to abuse in this scenario than in 4th edition, but I honestly feel it is better to not play than to play with those who ruin the fun of the game for you.

Posted on Dec 22, 2009 12:41:00 PM PST
J. Roberts says:
I'm a DM and I love 3.5 and Pathfinder.

I don't mind the prep and the DM load because [old man voice]back in my day you had the core books and you had a pad of paper and you had to do all the work. Had to.[/old man voice]

What IS this "DM load" thing about, anyway? That it takes 10 minutes to put together a well-rounded mid-level bad guy? Have people who complain about this problem even looked at Champions? Traveller? GURPS? I'd wager not, and that's fine. It's a correct and true statement that this is not a good game for DMs who don't like prep work, but that doesn't mean that the system's bad or broken or that it's a system that should be fixed to correct the problem.

Posted on Jan 27, 2010 6:21:30 AM PST
Nearing the end of January and Pathfinder is running strong for me and my group. I'll admit I've quickly become a die-hard fan of Paizo and am currently subscribing to their entire product line. That aside however...

I've played D&D since around '94 - '95 and did not really get to/want to play much in AD&D until about when the "Players Options" books were being released. The lack of ability to express what my creativity wanted me to create was frustrating... not to mention "thAC0"... *SHUDDER*. When 3.0/x first began coming out I jumped on board and have not looked back since. What I'm liking most about Pathfinder is that my initial investment in 3.x has not been wasted and I can use my entire library of 3.x books with very little adjustment. This allows me to shape just about any campaign idea I want just by the books I allow for play. One of the reasons I'm staying with Paizo is the fact that the company goes all out to listen to their customers and even lets us try out and play-test the product in the pre-release Beta stages. The quality of the product Paizo releases is just icing on the cake.

For these reasons I suspect allot of people will be checking out Pathfinder.

Posted on Jan 31, 2010 3:51:24 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 31, 2010 3:53:40 PM PST
I can see what people mean about Paizo trying to keep 3.5 alive, but it seems more and more like they're trying to give gamers disgruntled by the release of 4.0 a chance to vent their anger using their wallet. It's as though the Big, Blue Golem is giving people the Big, Blue Weenie.

I like what Pathfinder is trying to do with keeping things going, but they are, before everything else, a company. I guarantee you that they're not some benevolent ascetics living up in the mountains running their company solely for the purpose of saving a -decent- rule system while all the money they make as profit goes to charity. They are BUSINESS PEOPLE who want to make money by repackaging something old, making cosmetic changes, and reselling it.

My point is that it seems a little suspect to me, like we're getting squirelled. I loved the Pathfinder Campaign Setting - it was everything that's ever been awesome about home rules, complete with a massive central city dominated by organizations and trade societies. The core book, though, and the bestiary, are things any player could do themselves using the tools in the original books.

If you already HAVE the 3.5 Core Books, it would not be at all necessary to buy PF.

Posted on Apr 15, 2010 9:03:21 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 15, 2010 9:04:19 AM PDT
Pathfinder is what D&D 4th edition should have been. It is 3.5 rules updated and fixed after massive playtesting and feedback from thousands of players and DMs. Just about everything has been changed and smoothed out but it is easily recognizable and done very fluidly. I bought all the 4th edition d&d books as they came out and within a short time turned around ebayed them all at a big loss as they werent worth anything there either. Pathfinder products tend to be well written, quality material is used (the DM screen is the same thickness as a D&D hardbound book cover) and the prices are reasonable. They are very player-centric offering contests for amature/beginner writers where the winner ultimately gets their module published by the company and their ruleset is basically the result of thousands of playtesters saying "this is what needs to be fixed with 3.5". Check it out for yourself if you dont believe me and the many others that are now playing it.

Posted on Mar 18, 2011 10:23:31 PM PDT
Grendel says:
everyone I know in my local gaming store have been switching to Pathfinder.
I've gotten the core rulebook, and looking through it, it's what I wanted for DnD, not 4e.
4e has had a couple good things i'll be honest, but overall, alot of the freedom, versatility, and actual roleplay has been sucked from it, as they've turned it into a board game (wich coincidentally, the actual board games, I've been enjoying much more, at least they don't pretend to be an RPG).
I actually had a GM falter once, because I did an action, that was not any of the pre-described abilities or powers, and he wasn't sure how to handle it.

Pathfinder meanwhile has all the spells, skills, options, and flavor I liked in 3.5, I often play mages or sorcerers, and pathfinder, they feel like their own class, and not just fighter, rogue, or warlord with different names for the abilities
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Initial post:  Aug 28, 2009
Latest post:  Jan 1, 2012

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Core Rulebook by Jason Bulmahn (Hardcover - August 19, 2009)
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