Customer Reviews

Primera Bravo II AutoPrinter 62715 All-in-One CD/DVD Printing System

5 star:		(5)
4 star:		(4)
3 star:		(3)
2 star:		(3)
1 star:		(5)

 

 

(See update at end of review.....)

I have been publishing CDs and DVDs for years, and have used Neato brand labels and the various Neato labeling programs to design those labels. For the higher class jobs, I was using an Epson Styles Photo R200 inkjet printer, which includes a special CD/DVD printing tray and label design software. I did not care for the Epson software when it came to label design, so I continued to use the Neato software, export a JPG of the label, and use that file as background for a label design in the Epson software, which then was only used for the actual printing operation. This worked very well, I got good results, and all was well with the world.

However, now I find that my quantities have gone up somewhat, and customers who had received the inkjet direct-labeled disks from me no longer wanted to accept the regular ones with the paper Neato labels. By the way, I have always been very happy with the Neato product, and have found them to be easy to deal with, providing good customer service and tech support. So, I don't want to imply that there is anything wrong with Neato...it is just that my customers now prefer the directly printed ones instead.

The Epson inkjet printer was now overmatched by the quantity of disks being put through it, and since it printed to them slowly, it became a real drag for me to sit by the printer and feed it a new disk every couple of minutes. Too short of a time to go and do something else, but too long not to notice how agonizingly slowly the printing was taking.

A pro-audio dealer recommended the Primera brand Bravo II AutoPrinter product as being 'probably the best of a not very distinguished market'. In other words, it's not really that great overall, but you could do a lot worse.

The purchase price of the Bravo II is very high for what you get. The Bravo II series includes versions with and without disk burning capability, but all models have the printing function. You can get disk burning versions for either CD only or DVD/CD. The lowest price model is the AutoPrinter, which does not have any drives; you must have a separate disk burner. The Autoprinter goes for around $1300 US, which gives one pause. An inkjet printer of similar speed would cost around $300-$400, leaving the remaining $1000 price to pay for what?...the tiny robot arm mechanism?

I read lots of online reviews, almost all of which were obviously written by reviewers who had not used the printer at all, or perhaps only for long enough to write the reviews. In other words, they were not concerned with reliability, price, cost & availability of ink cartridges, etc. I called Primera to inquire about the ink, since I do most of my printing on weekends and evenings, and did not want to find myself running out of ink unexpectedly early. With my Epson, if I keep one of each kind of ink cartridge for it in stock in my office (they are expensive enough that I don't care to stock more than that), but if I run out there are more available at the nearby office supply stores (OfficeMax, OfficeDepot, and Circuit City etc.) I wanted to make sure that I could do this with the Primera if I decided to pop for what seemed to be an overly pricey machine. The Primera agent advised me that, "the printer part of the BravoII is a Lexmark inkjet engine, and while we advise the use of our own special Primera cartridges, you can put regular Lexmark cartridges in it if you want to." So, I bought the unit.

The printer arrived, and I was surprised to find it much larger than I expected it to be. It measures 17-1/4" wide, 16" deep, and 7" tall. The printer is not at all heavy, though, even with the steel chassis. My first impressions were:

- Multiple warning labels inside the box state that you had better keep the box and other packaging materials, because the warranty might well be voided if you have to send it back in any other packaging. This is not an uncommon warning, but Primera makes it sound even stricter.
- Why, oh why, does a $1300 piece of equipment have a wall wart power supply? It should really have a normal IEC type plug and power cord like almost every serious piece of electronic equipment.

I installed the software according to the printed instructions, also referring to the slightly different instructions that appear on the computer screen when the Primera CD is placed in a drive. Both were wrong! Quite a few steps were different than listed in the instructions, requiring a certain amount of experience with installations on Windows XP. Other steps actually had to happen in a different order, and the upshot is it could be confusing for less savvy people to accomplish gracefully.

A look at the printer hardware revealed a few disappointing issues:

- A bundle of wire that appears to go to the moving carriage assembly was so tight at the end of the travel that I worried it might break prematurely. However, the carriage will not move with the cover open, so without actually opening the printer beyond simply opening the cover, I could not be sure whether this was a real problem of not.
- The ink cartridges are the smallest ones I have seen, which makes me believe the frequency of ink changes will be greater than I hoped for.
- The robot arm does not have its own carriage mechanism. Instead, it hitches a ride along side the inkjet carriage, letting the printer motor pull the arm back and forth. This makes for rather clunky activity when the printer is in use. The inkjet carriage has to make several left-right motions in order to pick up, and drop off the robot arm, which cannot be hitched to it during printing maneuvers. Also, each coupling and uncoupling operation requires two movements of the inkjet carriage. Also, the robot arm disk-grabber mechanism seems to wait longer than necessary before positioning over the various disk trays (In, Printer, Out) before actually picking up and dropping off a disk.

I noticed that nowhere in the manual or packaging was there any information about which Lexmark cartridges to buy for the unit, if one wanted to use them instead of the Primera-branded ones. So, I called Primera and was put in touch with tech support - they told me that whoever told me that the Bravo II could use regular Lexmark cartridges was mistaken. The printer engine was indeed made by Lexmark, they said, but the cartridges were a custom version that had a different 'chip' than the regular ones. They said a regular one would fit but would be recognized by the printer as invalid, locking the printer out and requiring service to reset. I hate this kind of thing! There is not likely any difference in the ink between Lexmark and Primera, so I imaging that this is just a marketing thing. This makes sense for $100-$200 cheapo inkjet printers, where the manufacturer is really making their money from the ink and basically giving the printers away at cost. But a $1300 printer that probably costs less than $500 to make has lots of profit margin, and the customers should not be so restricted on ink. The Primera ink is not widely available in stores (although it is easy to order online), which kind of crimps my style when doing jobs at night and weekends. If I run out, it would be two or three days before I could get more ink. I don't really mind the nearly $50 price of Primera ink (that's EACH cartridge; the unit uses one color and one black cartridge), but the lack of ready and quick supply is a serious disadvantage in my opinion.

Anyway, I calibrated the printer, using the software's utilities for aligning the color and black cartridges, and aligning the print engine to the actual disks. This is important, since when you print directly to an inkjet printable disk, you want to use the entire white printable surface without actually going outside the printable area. Printing inside the margins leaved unsightly borders, and printing outside the margins will put ink where it should not be, either on the disk tray or on parts of the disk surface that are not able to absorb the ink. The SureThing label design software that comes bundled with the BravoII is OK, but has by far the worst user interface of any label design software I have used. I have ended up doing what I did before with my Epson; designing the labels on my Neato software, exporting a JPG of the label, and then using that image file as background in the SureThing software.

I have clocked the BravoII at 1 minute and 45 seconds per disk, faster than my Epson and certainly more convenient. The printer has a left disk tray and an identical right disk tray. You can specify whether the robot arm drops printed disk into the left tray (it always pulls blanks from the right tray), or sends them flying out the center chute to the front. Since the printer will not operate with the cover closed, you cannot get access to the left and right trays during printing. So, if you want to get your hands and the printed disks as soon as possible, perhaps to stick them into their cases, it is a nice feature to have them coming out the front chute onto the table. If you put the printer at the edge of a table, the disks will come flying out onto the floor. When you register the BravoII, Primera is supposed to send you a free 'kiosk kit', basically a 50 disk tray that attaches to the bottom of the center chute to catch the flying disks. Why does it hold 50 when the two other trays only hold 25? Because in KIOSK mode, the robot arm picks blank disks from both trays, not just the right one, for a maximum total of 50 per batch.

One nice thing about the SureThing software is that it has a printer options dialog that allows you to specify, in 10th of a mm, exactly what the inner and outer diameters of your disk's printable surface are (they do vary from one manufacturer to another, and then there are disks that allow printing on the hub area (so-called Full Coverage disks). It is easy in SureThing to pull up this dialog and change those values depending on the batch you have ready to print. The BravoII is also supposed to be able to receive print output from other Windows applications. The manual states that if you design a label in, say, Microsoft Word, and send it to the printer, that the printer firmware will recognize the image and automatically center it on the disk.

I thought that I would try an experiment with this, and designed a label using the Neato software. I used a template which was intended for printing to label stock that has die cutouts for two CDs per sheet. I only put a label design on the upper label area, and selected the BravoII as the printer. The printer went through its paces but printed the image so far off center that only the very edge of the image was placed in a 'corner' of the disk. I tried the same thing with the Epson software, which is intended to print only single disks, so would not have the offset of an upper and lower label on its template. Same result. So, I called Primera tech support...they said, basically, "forget that feature, it does not really work very well, since there are so many differences between the ways that various programs send out their images to the printers". So much for that feature.

I have not been able to do a reliability check so far, but the printer has done a good job of printing, had not mishandled any disks so far, and has indeed given me the freedom to do other things while the printer does it's. I still feel that Primera is overcharging for this machine, but until Epson of somebody comes out with a competing unit at a decent price, this probably is the best of what's left.
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Update, November 2007

Follow up by the author of this review:

After a few months of using this printer, it started to spray ink all over the inside, ruining several disks and making a real mess. It went back under warranty and Primera replaced the 'ink well' mechanism, saying that it was not sealing with the ink cartridges. The printer worked OK again after that.

Then, just a few weeks after the warrantly ran out at one year, the printer started to do odd things. The robot would place disks in various places besides where it was supposed to, and was not accurate in placing disks on the printing drawer, resulting in the drawer jamming when retracting into the printer. The disk picker head also would misalign with the disks when trying to pick them up, and broke its little fingers when trying to jab down into the place on the disks other than the hole. Back it went to Primera, this time I had to pay for shipping, and they got anther few hundred out of me to replace a broken gear and part of the drawer and robot mechanisms. They also replaced the ink well again...maybe they always do this when machines come back for service.

The thing that really bothered me was that Primera tech support kept saying that the problems were all due to me connecting the printer to the computer via a USB hub, not directly. They said this was because the printer has no internal controller and gets all control commands from the driver over the USB, and that a hub screws up the timing. This may or may not be true, but it certainly does not explain why the printer worked just fine for months while communicating via a hub before it broke. It also does not explain why one can download new printer firmware from Primera and install it on the printer (if there is no processor in the printer, what runs the firmware?). And it seems to conflict with the users manual, which points out that the robot can be put through its paces, doing everything it does while printing, in test mode while disconnected from the computer. That either makes the printer mechanism very very smart, or the tech support people somewhat mistaken. One gets the impression that the people who designed the machine have not trained the tech support folks.

Anyway, my printer works once again. Not a good repair record so far, though.

This system has been a blessing for me. I used to print CD's one at a time and it was a real pain. As my business grew I needed more power. I recieved this two days before my daughter was born and set it up to use while I was on PAternity duty. It setup easy and ran very low maintenance. I was running it on a computer that was doing nothing but that, and technically not up to the spec they recommend. Occassionally I have to reboot the machine, but that's the case with any windows machine. I think it approx. 18 months I have likely burned and printed about 6000 CD's. Business is growing again and I recently bought a high speed duplicator. That machine cost me $1100 and will do 11 CD's or 43 seconds for me so my bravo is just used for printing now.

I strongly recommend this. It's not perfect, but nothing with moving parts that is used alot is going to be no maintenance forever. This machine has been a stud for me.....

As a city employee who heads up a Video and Graphics department, and as a small business owner who operates a Photo and Video Production business out of his home ... I consider myself fairly versed in this technology.

For the city, I have been using a Primera Signature IV auto-printer for 5 years. It has functioned day in and day out, without fail. It has never required service.

So, when it came time for me to replace my agonizingly slow and unreliable Epson R200 single-disc printer, I immediately hit up the Primera web site to look at my options for a medium-duty home disc printer. After reviewing all of the models and their features, I settled on the Bravo II auto-printer, without the single burner. I have a standalone duplicator, so a single burner was just a redundant expense.

Setup was simple and straightforward. The instructions were fairly generic with several differences from the actual steps required for an XP SP2 install. But, anyone with common sense can install the driver and Sure Thing software. And hey ... let's face it ... if you don't have common sense, you're probably not going to be spending $1,300 for a printer that is dedicated to only print discs.

Speaking of the $1,300 price tag. Ouch. That's a big chunk of change. But your options in this market are very limited. You can get a consumer level Epson printer, and be severely disappointed. Or, you can step up and play with the big boys, and fork out the dough. Welcome to the big leagues, now break out your checkbook. Yes, it is overpriced for what it is. But, you have very limited selection for a disc printer of this caliber.

The design itelf is simple and from the beginning you can quickly see that the printer is nothing more than a Lexmark print engine slapped into a custom enclosure with a robotic picker piggybacked to the ink carrier. The design is simple, but it works. The operation is clunky, but it works. Primera printers are noted for their quirks. Even the $3,000 Signature IV at the office does strange things and moves the arm in unexplained motions ... but it works, and never fails.

The same can be said of the Bravo II. It has to grab the picker, align it, "find" the disc in the tray, pick the disc, deposit it in the tray, return the picker, and finally print the disc. Then it must go back and retrieve the picker, move the disc from the tray to the completed bin (or eject out the front in Kiosk mode), and then go pick a new disc, which starts the cycle again. As I said, it's clunky, but it works ..... realiably .... every time.

With regards to the ink ... even though it is a Lexmark engine, the carts have a custom chip, meaning you can't go buy a Lexmark cart, even though it is identical to the Primera cart including the ink inside. At $50 per cart, times 2 carts (black and color) you're looking at having $200 of ink on hand. You want to have a set in the printer, and another set on the shelf ready to go. You can't run out to Office Max and grab another ink cart.

Having said that, however, you *can* refill the ink carts using the same procedures for Lexmark printers. You will need to keep several on hand though as the printer remembers the serial number of the last few carts it used to discourage refilling. I have 5 sets of carts, labelled 1-5. I simply use them in that order. When the color 1 runs out, I swap out both color 1 and black 1, and insert color 2 and black 2. By the time I get through all 5 sets, the printer has forgotten the serial numbers of set 1, and I start the cycle again. Consider the purchase of your new carts a long-term investment. And, print heads don't last forever. Eventually you will have to replace your recycled ink carts.

Let's talk about the software that comes with the printer. Sure Thing ... it's the same software that comes with all the Primera printers, and it is very basic. You can import your graphics, you can use their templates, and it's designed for an amateur. Me? I never use it. I don't even have it installed. I use Photoshop. Simply make yourself a 120mm square image at 300 DPI. That's your template. I have a mask layer that shows the edges and the hub, so I can design accordingly. Turn off that layer, FILE | PRINT | 50 copies. Walk away. Come back later and collect the discs out of the front ejection tray called the "kiosk kit." You receive the kiosk kit about 3 weeks after you register your new Bravo II with Primera either on their web site or via mail-in card.

Print quality is excellent. I typically use the Standard 600 setting and have no complaints. From time to time I will crank it up a little, but the only time I have used the max setting was just to see how well it could really print. Printing a full coverage image at standard resolution takes a little less than 2 minutes. So, keep that in mind when planning your print jobs. As reliable as this printer is, I typically run my print jobs when I go to bed and collect the discs from the Kiosk tray in the morning. If I need more, I run another batch before I leave for work.

That's it in a nutshell. OK, maybe that's a pretty big nutshell. But I hope you get the idea. It's overpriced for what it is, it has expensive ink carts, it looks and acts clunky ... but it works and it does a dang fine job. It just churns out discs one after another, no questions asked, without fail.

I have has two Bravo's, the original and the Bravo 2. Both have been rock solid execpt the burner in the original Bravo stopped working and had to replace it , but we must have burned thousands of DVD's with it so we got our money out of it. The Bravo 2 has been in use for a year now, well over 1,000 DVD'S burned, and no major problems. Don't care for the high ink cost but the product looks and works great. Using Powermac G4's and G5's. Mac software is great, stable and easy to use (of course, it's a Mac!)
Hint:
1. Let the machine run, don't open the cover and don't use the computer for anythine else while it working.
2. Burn everything 4x or under (more reliable burns)

This is an excellent printer. Disk handling robotics have been reliable and the print engine turns out very good quality print. Since I use the printer on an Apple system the lack of a current Mac print driver is a critical failing. When I use the printer on my Mac it is not possible to align the disk and print heads because the driver apparently normally stores the settings - since the driver was written for the old MAC processors and operating systems, it must run in Rosetta mode which leads to many problems one of which is its inability to store and recall any settings. Also there are alignment issues, print boundary issues, random change of system default printers, operation in kiosk mode when there is no kiosk tray and many others. When I contacted Primera with these issues they were "unable" to explain the problem. When I contacted my CD/DVD print program supplier, they explained the driver issues very quickly (even though they have no responsibility for the drivers - this is the job of the hardware mfg.) When I then asked Primera about the driver I was told to just check back "later" to see if there was a new driver (not exactly the level of support I would expect from a printer mfg for a current product on a current OS.) The last driver update appears to have been in 2005. I would not recommend buying this device for use with a Mac unless a new driver is also supplied.

I have had a Bravo 2 for over 6 years and every time I try to make a disk something does not work. The ink cartridges are clogged, there is a communication problem, the mac does not recognize it etc. I have had these problems with 4 different computers over the years so I know it is not anything but the Bravo 2. It has been back to the factory for repairs twice, it works for a week and then starts to have problems again. Right now I am trying to make 10 disks and it has taken me 2 hours to get just one printed correctly. I am ashamed of myself for having spent so much money on a really crappy product. You are much better off sending dvds off to a duplicator or doing them manually in your machine and printing them on an Epson R220 or similar. It is better and faster. I hope I can save someone some money and aggravation with this review.

Our Primera Bravo Disk Publisher has not worked since the day we bought it!!! I would have to say we burned less than 250 CD's (with MANY hassles and headaches) before it completely stopped working at ALL. As far as the CD labeler, it NEVER worked properly from Day #1. Now we are looking at TRYING to return it to the manufacturer for (hopefully) repair, but am sure it will cost more to repair it (if it even CAN be repaired) than is worth our trouble. It is CERTAINLY not Mac compatible, as we had to buy a PC (running Windows Vista) just to get it up and running in the first place. We purchased it to burn instructional CD's for our business (distance learning courses for educators) mostly as a luxury (only needing to burn around 1,500 CD's annually). Interestingly enough our good old tried and true CD burner, for which we paid less than $100 for almost 10 years ago, still performs great and will LONG outlive this Primera Bravo piece of junk!!! Buyer beware. Do NOT buy this item. It is J-U-N-K!!!!

I bought a Bravo II in 2006. Very obtuse to understand and set-up. Buggy software. Many fights with the machine to get a job done. After a couple of years, wouldn't print properly... color ink would print one good one and then following jobs didn't have correct color (i.e. aqua logo only rusty red). I replaced wiper blades, repeatedly put in new ink cartridges (very expensive), many calls to tech support, sent unit back last winter for repair and it came back with same printing problems. Burns DVDs fine, although sometimes there is a bunch of stop/starting to get it to work, but the printer is totally unreliable. It has provided me many hours of frustration. Tech support was poor and unable to correct problems, therefore providing me with many more hours of frustration. It is clunky, crappy, and unreliable. Expensive, too. Where is a reliable alternative for Mac OS?

The Bravo II is an excellent burner and printer but they've been promising for 2 years now that 64 bit drivers will be out soon, most bravo owners are sure they mean never at this point but aren't willing to give up sales.

Primera Bravo II AutoPrinter 62715 All-in-One CD/DVD Printing SystemIn the month I have owned it, this ingenious machine has produced 480 labelled CDs without a glitch and without using up an ink cartridge (despite printing titles & detailed track listings). Its automation lets me eat, read and do other work while it prints. (Or if you have nothing else to do with your time, just watching it perform is fun, especially if you enjoy Rube Goldberg.) Blank printable media are less than half the price of those needed for LiteScribe, and the results are more pleasing. On-screen instructions are not 100% self explanatory (at least for me), so allow time on day-one for trial and error learning. (You don't need to waste any discs for this, because what you see on the screen is exactly what you get.) This is a fine machine and worth the steep price.