Customer Reviews

Rules II: More Rules to Live and Love By

5 star:		(23)
4 star:		(10)
3 star:		(4)
2 star:		(7)
1 star:		(8)

 

 

As someone who considers herself a highly intelligent, well-educated individual, I originally turned up my nose at these "manipulative" Rules, claiming, after having read the first book, that they would only work on a certain, superficial type of man. But let me tell you what I've discovered - acting as if you like yourself and your life and that you are just as happy without a man as with one is the only way to ever really find happiness *with* one! Ellen Fein and Sherrie Schneider have been slammed for writing these books, when in actuality the message they are trying to get across is: "stop being so pathetic, stop sitting around daydreaming about how some guy will make your life perfect, because when you think that way, you're *bound* to end up looking needy and desperate!" I think the reason these books offended so many "feminists" is because even feminists act this way! Even the most intelligent, intellectual, well-educated women in the world doodle their first name with the dream guy's last name, daydream about their wedding, etc...yet hate it about themselves. The bottom line is, don't knock "The Rules" books just because they appear calculating and manipulative. Granted, there are brainless bimbos out there who follow the book to the letter without ever getting the greater message, whose only goal is getting a rich husband. But these books are also great "how-to" guides for those of us who *know* we have to stop being doormats and that we have a tendency to rationalize it by saying we're just "being open and honest". I also recommend "Men Like Women Who Like Themselves".

I have met, chased, been dumped twice by and finally caught by Mr Right. The first two times we dated, things would go well and then I'd start analysing and get clingy (as I did with all my relationships.) The first time he called the third time we dated (we dated and stopped dating THREE TIMES over four years)I had a copy of The Rules in front of me-- strangely opened to the page that said something to the effect of, "Don't be too excied when he calls. . . Get off the phone first-- you are busy and have a life!" I considered it destiny, said it was great hearing from him but that I was only home for a few minutes but had to run as I had an appointment. He asked me for dinner that weekend-- I said I was busy on Friday (I didn't tell him that I was doing laundry!)and he tied me down for Saturday. (Very Rules of me!)

I enjoyed that date, and I wanted it to go on for forever. But the Rules said no-- end the evening first. I told him I was teaching Sunday school the next morning and had to be home by midnight for my beauty rest.

He dropped me off and met me and my kids at the church the next morning. The date DID go on for Forever-- we married three months later.

He later told me that when he called he had been thinking of me-- I was a nice, single mom with three terrific kids and he had decided that I was intellectually great as a friend but that I was too fragile for a romance. He planned on sowing the seeds for a gradual friendship to be built again, but that he was shocked that as needy as I had been, I was suddenly doing other things. He really liked this new woman and wanted to know me better, and he was suddenly having to work to get my attention! As recommended in the books, I decided to not call him if I didn't hear from him-- he didn't call me once for three days and I had made certain to make plans for the next weekend, so oh-well. I waited for him to make the moves. He did. If I had plans with the kids, he even offered to join us-- and he paid for all of us just to be "taking care of me." He worked a shift job the first two years after we wed, and I was always getting called every night he was gone. At a Christmas party everyone said how proud of me he was as he bragged about my community involvment and how he couldn't wait to come home to me. The Rules I & II advised me on how to act under difficult circumstances and I did them-- it is hard to not vomit your feelings out when you feel the weight of the world on your shoulders, but timing was crucial and as a result, he was happier and we couldn't wait for one another.

HE will buy our daughters copies of both for their thirteenth birthdays and to encourage them to be active women with more than romance on their minds. Even when the hormones are screaming that a boy is the be-all/end-all, he'll have more to advise them with as far as saying, "You are worth more than this."

The Rules I & II are superb. This is no great piece of literature, mind you, but for someone who used to be a bit of a wild one who had as many broken hearts as she did adventures and didn't know why she couldn't get a commitment, I found these to be an inspritation of my life.

Picture yourself playing a game of tennis, only your opponent is on the other side of the court drinking lemonade while you make all the moves. You are great fun to watch for a while but after a bit, he gets up and walks off the court. You get upset, but realize that you were playing the game wrong-- you need to stay on your side of the court and hit the ball back, but he must also be sending the ball back. "The Opponent" can be your boyfriend, your mother, or your friends. You might really enjoy tennis, but you have to let the other person play, and if they don't, you need a partner who wants to hit the ball back. It is better to hit a ball against a wall or work out than it is to play both sides.

The Rules are about not needing someone in your life, and that if someone wants to be there, they will treat you well-- just as you will treat them well. People have to value each other, and we tend to take advantage of those who are too eager for us and vise verse.

The Rules keep you from doing all the work and of finding the people who really care for you. I don't buy the bunk that they turn you into the little lady who waits on her man-- they are about mutual respect.

I have read many criticisms on "The Rules" series and my friends can't stand the ideas expressed in this book. However, by following some (not all) of the principles and modifying it to my comfort, I think that my relationship with my current partner has improved.

I think this is a great book because it really sheds the light on the tendency for some women to be clingy, needy, and desperate in relationships. They call their boyfriends all the time wanting to know where they are and what they are doing, they shower their men with gifts and favors (e.g. cooking them dinner), and lose themselves in the relationship (e.g. "forgetting" about their friends). In turn, men who go out with such women get bored, feel suffocated, and in some cases wants out of the relationship. In addition, it also reinforces the idea that despite modern women's prerogative to "take charge" of everything, relationships work best when men pursue and women are pursued.

I especially like the rules "don't call men" and "get off the phone first" because it seems to help my partner feel like he is the one who is still pursuing me (even though we've been together for more than a year), and also prevents him from getting tired from too-long phone conversations and leaves him wanting more next time. However, I do not agree with the authors' "20-minute rule". Especially because my partner and I are in a long-distance relationship and see each other twice a month, I believe that there's nothing wrong with us talking longer. And I DO let him get off the phone first sometimes, LOL.

Many women seem to see "The Rules" as manipulative--I don't think so. As with the authors, I believe that even practing The Rules rigorously (which I DON'T do) does NOT prevent women from being themselves in front of men they are interested in. I just think that The Rules help to prevent the men that women are really into from getting bored, craving space, and taking them for granted.

Great book...I wish I had read it during my college years, LOL.

This series of books has gotten some bad press for advocating behavior strategies that could be interpreted as manipulative. Some of the tactics seem questionable (hence the 4 stars and not 5). However, if you go beyond the specifics and see The Rules in context I think that the authors' advice seems more palatable and appropriate.

I think that the core readership the authors want to appeal to are those women who give of their time, energy, bodies and souls too soon and too freely, only to get hurt. Some of these women behave this way primarily out of neediness. The "get a life, develop some hobbies, make time for your friends" advice is targeted at such women. There is an additional not-so-obvious target group for these books. The large contingent of smart women who extend the "go for it" approach that has served them well in other areas of their lives to convince a man to fall in love with them, can also save themselves a great deal of hair-pulling by heeding Fein and Schneider.

It seems to me that the authors are trying to get across the message that you cannot coerce someone to fall in love with you. You need to take things slow and wait for signs of definite interest before investing your precious self in a relationship with him. Rules II outlines the specifics you need to look for and be aware of before you make any kind of committment to a potential significant other.

Now an obvious question arises from this credo. What if HE too takes the responsive role in a relationship? The Rules authors counter this argument in the first book proclaiming that men who wait for the woman to take the first move continue this trend into the relationship. After reading The Rules books, I too have observed this. Fein and Schneider are very upfront about not having being trained in therapy; their book is purely based on anecdotal evidence. This commonsense (grandma?) psychology is surprisingly effective once you understand the spirit of what the authors are trying to convey and not get bogged down in their sometimes questionable tactics.

Plenty of women spout common and cliched criticisms of these books. Let's take a popular one: Men say that they like it when girls ask them out, call them, they're shy, etc etc. Well I'm sure that if you polled 100 men, a significant number of them would say that they like it when girls sleep with them on the first date. It probably won't take a book to tell you that men aren't going to marry these girls. Think this is an extreme analogy? Fine, but think about what you're saying before you claim that men like this and men say this. Also, men wouldn't be very popular if they said that they liked to pursue women, they like to pay, they want to be the one to make the first move. They probably would get burned at the feminist stake. And as far as being yourself and doing what you feel, would you "be yourself" on a job interview? And you might feel like slouching, but you know it's not good for you, even though it doesn't "feel natural" to sit up straight. And when you want to lose weight, you don't do what you feel, you get up off of the couch to jog and get small fries instead of supersized. I think that the real reason that there is such an outcry against this type of advice is because it is the hardest. It is SO hard not to call, and not to tell him how you feel, and not to rationalize his unromantic behaviors. But deal with your own issues instead of blindly raging against something that you clearly don't understand. Because if you did understand the Rules, truly understand them, you would be doing them.

These two authors are on the ball! Both of their books sit on my shelve next to my Holy Bible.

Initial impressions: No, you may not find their books a literary work. Their rules sound very selfish and may make you uncomfortable. There are no statistics or control groups mentioned.

Conclusion: Who cares? This book works just like the first Rules book. Every time I get weak-minded and listen to how a man (any and all men) say how wonderful he is or how beautiful I am, etc, I pull out both of Ellen's books. Then I allow the more unsuitable men to return back to the common property cesspool from whence they came. The more decent ones are still around. At least we are friends. One is even more.

My advice: ignore all the authors' angry critics, (including the women who are the mothers, mistresses, and man-worshippers who have created and sustained the "men" the authors' Rules continue to screen out). I strongly recommend Ellen & Sherrie's books. These women are both very intelligent and courageous!

Before I knew about The Rules (I or II) I was always a doormat, wasting years of my life and getting hurt in every relationship. I dated guys who didn't really care about me. I gave everything I could and they just kept taking. When The Rules was first publicized I scoffed and laughed at those "manipulative games" that "put women back 50 years" because I had a real relationship. I didn't need those silly rules. Then I got dumped and found out my boyfriend had been cheating on me for the past year. That real relationship I had, where I didn't need flowers or candy or nice dates left me with nothing but a broken heart. I admitted my way of dating wasn't working and decided to try The Rules. Now I'm happily married to a great guy. He's all I could ask for and he loves me for who I am. I didn't have to try to trap him or win his love. I was just me, did TR, and lived a happy life.

I recommend this book to any woman who is having relationship problems or wants to get married.

A few of us Rules Girls have started a relationship website/chat boards to help others: http://www.geocities.com/rulesgirlsonline/

If you need relationship advice or just want to chat stop on by.

I don't think The Rules should be followed like a Bible, but there are some very valid points-- about 75% in my estimation-- in there. The media, as usual, likes to quote out of context to devalue the entire book. For example, the media hypes the rule that a woman should not accept a date for Saturday after Wednesday. True, the book cites the theory that the woman who agrees to a last-minute date will enable a man to use her as a last resort for that weekend when the women he truly likes turn him down, and he is less likely to respect her because of it. However, the book also makes the valid point that a woman should be busy and fulfilled with hobbies outside of dating. Not only will this make her less desperate for a man, but she'll be more interesting to date because of her activities. Therefore, a woman should be active enough that she has at least a vague idea of other things to do for the weekend if the telephone does not ring by Thursday, so she'll be telling the truth

when she tells a guy who asks her on Saturday afternoon for a Saturday night date. Appropos to this, in college I was puzzled when some men in the dorms labled various women "Karen" even when their names were otherwise. Women got this title by being sure-thing dates when the women the men really wanted to date were busy, and "Karens" rarely got to meet a guy's parents. One day I learned why these females were called Karen. It rhymes with Guarantee. Read The Rules II.

Call The Rules archaic, as they are. Call them manipulative as I did, all the while being used and manipulated by indecisive players. Finally, after another broken heart from another hedger, I picked The Rules up. I did not like the writing style of the authors, but I followed the ones that made sense to me. I now call The Rules *effective*, as I sit staring at the juicy 1.5K rock on my finger from a moral, intelligent, successful, handsome, kind man. If you've followed another path and had success, more power to you. I know what worked for me.