From respected academics like Carol Gilligan to pop-psych gurus like John Gray, and even the controversial Harvard President Lawrence Summers, the message has long been the same: Men and women are fundamentally different, and trying to bridge the gender gap can only lead to grief. But as the New York Times Book Review raved, Barnett and Rivers "debunk these theories in a no-nonsense way, offering a refreshingly direct (i.e. unashamedly judgmental) critique of traditional parental roles, tututting at the couples they interviewed who cling to stereotyped ideas of the family." "Blending case histories, new research and thoughtful analysis, the writers describe the divide between the sexes as a crevice, not a chasm. The good news: We're all a lot more flexible than the gender clich8Es let on."-Psychology Today
Same Difference
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Editorial Reviews
From Publishers Weekly
According to Rivers, a professor of journalism at Boston College, and Barnett, a senior scientist at Brandeis, there is no innate difference between the sexes; there are only varying behaviors that are determined by the degree of power males and females hold in a given situation. The authors earlier collaborated on She Works/He Works, which took issue with the idea that two working parents in a home was harmful to children. In this provocative study, they take on gender theorists ranging from Carol Gilligan (In a Different Voice) to David Buss (The Evolution of Desire) and pop writer John Gray (Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus), picking on their arguments and their scholarship. The authors believe that gender difference theory rationalizes the discrimination still prevalent in society and is comforting in a time of great social change. Drawing on current scholarly research, Barnett and Rivers take on one "myth" per chapter; they found little statistical support, for example, for Buss’s conclusion that women choose mates on the basis of financial security and men prefer to marry younger, very attractive women. Although Barnett and Rivers make a cogent case, their conclusions will be subject to the same scrutiny as they give their targets.
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
Review
"[Same Difference] is a lesson in critical thinking and a warning to look more deeply into data before believing the latest hot story about the battle of the sexes." Boston Globe "Stereotypes about the differences between women and men may be based on flimsy evidence, but taking them seriously can do real damage to our relationships and careers. Both men and women pay a steep price. Blending case histories, new research and thoughtful analysis, the writers describe the divide between the sexes as a crevice, not a chasm. The good news: We're all a lot more flexible than the gender cliches let on." Psychology Today"
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Most Helpful Customer Reviews
91 of 108 people found the following review helpful
Format:Hardcover
As a social psychologist, I read this book with some eagerness, thinking of it as a potential text for my classes. However, I ended up feeling rather disappointed and concluding that--while it makes some good points--it suffers from many of the same criticisms it points out in the work of feminist scholars.
As an example, the book devotes an inordinate amount of space to criticizing the work of Carol Gilligan. I was actually glad to see this, because the authors correctly point out that Gilligan's work has had a disproportionate and scary amount of influence on cultural thought despite severe methodological flaws (e.g., small sample, reliance on unrepresentative anecdotal accounts, refusal to allow other researchers access to data, etc.). However--and without any apparent sense of irony--Barnett and Rivers rely heavily on anecdotes from their own clinical practices throughout the book to make THEIR points. And if it's not okay for Gilligan to do so, why is it okay for them?
A second feature I found disappointing in this book is that the authors misinterpret "small differences" to mean trivial or meaningless. For example, a frequent refrain throughout the book is that studies comparing genders find more variability within genders than between genders. This is undoubtedly true, but it does not mean that the obtained mean differences are unimportant. As an illustration, take the height difference in men and women. Few people would argue that men, on average, are taller than women. Of course, there is greater variability within genders than between; in other words, the difference between the tallest ten percent of men and shortest ten percent is greater than the difference between the average man and woman. But that does not call into question the documented sex difference: Men are, on average, taller than women, and this difference reflects innate biological sex differences. Height, of course, is a trivial trait I chose to make the point vividly, but the same argument can be made about any of the cognitive and psychological traits that solid science (e.g., peer-reviewed meta-analyses) reveals to demonstrate sex differences. To give a more substantive example, while men and women do not differ on overall IQ, they DO differ in the shape of the distribution, with men being disproportionately represented in the tails. To put it bluntly, there are more severely retarded men...but there are also more male geniuses. Why, nobody knows, but it does no good to try to pretend these differences don't exist or to blame it on some nonexistent glass ceiling that is preventing women from geniushood.
In short, I feel this book goes too far in trying to deny the existence of sex differences. I agree with the authors that the "Men are from Mars" and Carol Gilligan crowd is doing a disservice to men and women alike by stereotyping and pigeonholing us and insisting that we do not have the capabilities or flexibilities to show traits associated with the opposite gender. But I think "Same Difference" undermines their own argument by insisting too steadfastly that there are no differences at all, and their argument is undermined further by a willingness to rely on anecdotal evidence they (rightfully) dismiss in others' work. Yes, there is tremendous variability within genders, and both men and women are capable of an infinite range of behaviors, emotions, and talents. But men and women also differ, reliably, consistently, and in statistically significant and practically important ways. To pretend that they don't is the tale of the emperor's new clothes all over again.
As an example, the book devotes an inordinate amount of space to criticizing the work of Carol Gilligan. I was actually glad to see this, because the authors correctly point out that Gilligan's work has had a disproportionate and scary amount of influence on cultural thought despite severe methodological flaws (e.g., small sample, reliance on unrepresentative anecdotal accounts, refusal to allow other researchers access to data, etc.). However--and without any apparent sense of irony--Barnett and Rivers rely heavily on anecdotes from their own clinical practices throughout the book to make THEIR points. And if it's not okay for Gilligan to do so, why is it okay for them?
A second feature I found disappointing in this book is that the authors misinterpret "small differences" to mean trivial or meaningless. For example, a frequent refrain throughout the book is that studies comparing genders find more variability within genders than between genders. This is undoubtedly true, but it does not mean that the obtained mean differences are unimportant. As an illustration, take the height difference in men and women. Few people would argue that men, on average, are taller than women. Of course, there is greater variability within genders than between; in other words, the difference between the tallest ten percent of men and shortest ten percent is greater than the difference between the average man and woman. But that does not call into question the documented sex difference: Men are, on average, taller than women, and this difference reflects innate biological sex differences. Height, of course, is a trivial trait I chose to make the point vividly, but the same argument can be made about any of the cognitive and psychological traits that solid science (e.g., peer-reviewed meta-analyses) reveals to demonstrate sex differences. To give a more substantive example, while men and women do not differ on overall IQ, they DO differ in the shape of the distribution, with men being disproportionately represented in the tails. To put it bluntly, there are more severely retarded men...but there are also more male geniuses. Why, nobody knows, but it does no good to try to pretend these differences don't exist or to blame it on some nonexistent glass ceiling that is preventing women from geniushood.
In short, I feel this book goes too far in trying to deny the existence of sex differences. I agree with the authors that the "Men are from Mars" and Carol Gilligan crowd is doing a disservice to men and women alike by stereotyping and pigeonholing us and insisting that we do not have the capabilities or flexibilities to show traits associated with the opposite gender. But I think "Same Difference" undermines their own argument by insisting too steadfastly that there are no differences at all, and their argument is undermined further by a willingness to rely on anecdotal evidence they (rightfully) dismiss in others' work. Yes, there is tremendous variability within genders, and both men and women are capable of an infinite range of behaviors, emotions, and talents. But men and women also differ, reliably, consistently, and in statistically significant and practically important ways. To pretend that they don't is the tale of the emperor's new clothes all over again.
23 of 27 people found the following review helpful
Format:Hardcover
This book was a breath of fresh air for me, as I will bet it has been for many others - both male and female.
I must respectfully disagree with those who would say that the authors of this book are trying to minimize the differences between men and women. They agree that there are, indeed, differences. But the point they make - and I feel eloquently - is that the differences are not as sharply drawn as we think and they do not need to hamper communication between the genders and/or limit what life choices either gender "must" make.
Before I go on, let me state that I am a feminine acting woman. I have a lot of interests that fit the image people have of women "should" be like. I'm a certified bilingual elementary school teacher, I teach piano lessons, I love children and pets. I even knit teddy bears. However, as I now look over this list, I realize that my interests are not just limited to the female of the species. Perhaps more men will choose certain careers and more women will choose others; it could very well be. Perhaps we will always have more female kindergarten teachers than male and more male engineers than female. Maybe more women than men will knit and crochet and more men will tinker with engines and motors in general and automobiles in particular. But steering either men or women away from certain careers because of gender can be damaging to an individual. Somewhere we need to understand that each person is an individual and that trying to stuff people into arbitrary categories hurts individuals and the possible contribution they can make to society.
Perhaps the difference in physical size and strength (a very real one) could account for more men going into certain professions and more women going into others. But there are others such as engineering into which more women are entering. I had an enlightening talk with an older female friend who was a math teacher who said that when she was a young woman studying math she could not go into engineering because she, being a woman, was not permitted to go out into the field. The authors of this book tell about a school counselor who guided girls away from studying math - and I could bet that there are many examples of this.
I feel strongly about this because I was, at one time, struggling with it myself. For many years I thought that I as a female could never be logical. Consequently, I didn't study the wonderful subject of logic. When I finally did, I was surprised to find out that I did quite well. In fact, my logic professor (a man) told me that in his classes, women actually outperformed men! While this was just his classes and didn't include statistics from other logic classes, it was certainly food for thought. The same thing held true for mathematics. I often had trouble in algebra (a trait I've since found out that I have in common with a lot of men, including author C. S. Lewis) but later on I found out that with extra study, conferring with people who knew more about it that I did, and a big dose of self-discipline, I could do it, too.
I also feel strongly about this because in spite of my "feminine" activities, I still did not fit the stereotype of women. I married late in life - in my 50's. The drive and desire that makes many women want to have a home and family was left out of my makeup, and I lived happily as a bachelorette for many years before meeting the man who is now my husband. I put up with a lot of verbal garbage from people because I stayed single for so long.
I have wondered if men who don't fit the stereotype feel the same way. I think about my father who is a very nurturing, caring person who is at his happiest and most vital mindset when with his grandchildren. How about a man who is not good in math? (And there are many) How about a tenderhearted man? (And there are many)
The differences between men and women should not have to hamper the communication between the two genders. A good dose of listening skills and old-fashioned good manners can eliminate a lot of communication problems.
I must respectfully disagree with those who would say that the authors of this book are trying to minimize the differences between men and women. They agree that there are, indeed, differences. But the point they make - and I feel eloquently - is that the differences are not as sharply drawn as we think and they do not need to hamper communication between the genders and/or limit what life choices either gender "must" make.
Before I go on, let me state that I am a feminine acting woman. I have a lot of interests that fit the image people have of women "should" be like. I'm a certified bilingual elementary school teacher, I teach piano lessons, I love children and pets. I even knit teddy bears. However, as I now look over this list, I realize that my interests are not just limited to the female of the species. Perhaps more men will choose certain careers and more women will choose others; it could very well be. Perhaps we will always have more female kindergarten teachers than male and more male engineers than female. Maybe more women than men will knit and crochet and more men will tinker with engines and motors in general and automobiles in particular. But steering either men or women away from certain careers because of gender can be damaging to an individual. Somewhere we need to understand that each person is an individual and that trying to stuff people into arbitrary categories hurts individuals and the possible contribution they can make to society.
Perhaps the difference in physical size and strength (a very real one) could account for more men going into certain professions and more women going into others. But there are others such as engineering into which more women are entering. I had an enlightening talk with an older female friend who was a math teacher who said that when she was a young woman studying math she could not go into engineering because she, being a woman, was not permitted to go out into the field. The authors of this book tell about a school counselor who guided girls away from studying math - and I could bet that there are many examples of this.
I feel strongly about this because I was, at one time, struggling with it myself. For many years I thought that I as a female could never be logical. Consequently, I didn't study the wonderful subject of logic. When I finally did, I was surprised to find out that I did quite well. In fact, my logic professor (a man) told me that in his classes, women actually outperformed men! While this was just his classes and didn't include statistics from other logic classes, it was certainly food for thought. The same thing held true for mathematics. I often had trouble in algebra (a trait I've since found out that I have in common with a lot of men, including author C. S. Lewis) but later on I found out that with extra study, conferring with people who knew more about it that I did, and a big dose of self-discipline, I could do it, too.
I also feel strongly about this because in spite of my "feminine" activities, I still did not fit the stereotype of women. I married late in life - in my 50's. The drive and desire that makes many women want to have a home and family was left out of my makeup, and I lived happily as a bachelorette for many years before meeting the man who is now my husband. I put up with a lot of verbal garbage from people because I stayed single for so long.
I have wondered if men who don't fit the stereotype feel the same way. I think about my father who is a very nurturing, caring person who is at his happiest and most vital mindset when with his grandchildren. How about a man who is not good in math? (And there are many) How about a tenderhearted man? (And there are many)
The differences between men and women should not have to hamper the communication between the two genders. A good dose of listening skills and old-fashioned good manners can eliminate a lot of communication problems.
7 of 7 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars
A well-researched critique of gender views in current Western culture
October 24, 2008
By Mari Boning
Format:Paperback
Essentially a critical overview of gender ideas in current Western culture, the authors provide a comprehensive argument that the differences between genders are largely cultural constructions.
A variety of sources are cited, from scientific research to influential popular media.
Having just read the entire book, I am surprised that reviewers are criticising the authors so harshly for providing an occasional anecdote along with all the other viewpoints represented in the book. The vast majority of this work is citation, critique and synthesis.
The book could have done without it's sparse anecdotal content, and would be MORE scholarly for the lack of it, but omission of all such contect would have perhaps left the book ten pages (a generous estimate) shorter than it's current length of two hundred fifty four pages (discounting the 23 pages of source notes in the rear of the book).
The vast majority of this work consists of cited research and solid logical criticism of that research. This is essentially analytical, not at all written in an anecdotal style. Nonetheless the style is engaging: entertaining and easily understandable.
It is a very informative book, and the basic point and conclusion of this book is well-supported by the arguments made and by the variety and quality of sources that inform these arguments.
Comparison of this work to other work on gender is very favorable in terms of the variety of information adressed, and the soundness of it's critiques. I would recommend this work to anyone I know as an informative and interesting read that may lead to a greater understanding of gender and the social elements of it's construction.
It would be interesting to supplement a work like this with a work related to the science behind cognitive classification systems related to handling information - and particularly how thinking in polarities affects our lives for better or worse. Sometimes polarized thinking makes life much easier and sometimes it makes life miserable.
The New Inquisition would be an interesting supplement to "Same Difference" because it concerns cognitive processing, social conditioning, and belief systems. I haven't read it in a long time, so I'm not prepared to give a really solid critique of it- I'll just say it's at least mostly interesting.
The New Inquisition
A variety of sources are cited, from scientific research to influential popular media.
Having just read the entire book, I am surprised that reviewers are criticising the authors so harshly for providing an occasional anecdote along with all the other viewpoints represented in the book. The vast majority of this work is citation, critique and synthesis.
The book could have done without it's sparse anecdotal content, and would be MORE scholarly for the lack of it, but omission of all such contect would have perhaps left the book ten pages (a generous estimate) shorter than it's current length of two hundred fifty four pages (discounting the 23 pages of source notes in the rear of the book).
The vast majority of this work consists of cited research and solid logical criticism of that research. This is essentially analytical, not at all written in an anecdotal style. Nonetheless the style is engaging: entertaining and easily understandable.
It is a very informative book, and the basic point and conclusion of this book is well-supported by the arguments made and by the variety and quality of sources that inform these arguments.
Comparison of this work to other work on gender is very favorable in terms of the variety of information adressed, and the soundness of it's critiques. I would recommend this work to anyone I know as an informative and interesting read that may lead to a greater understanding of gender and the social elements of it's construction.
It would be interesting to supplement a work like this with a work related to the science behind cognitive classification systems related to handling information - and particularly how thinking in polarities affects our lives for better or worse. Sometimes polarized thinking makes life much easier and sometimes it makes life miserable.
The New Inquisition would be an interesting supplement to "Same Difference" because it concerns cognitive processing, social conditioning, and belief systems. I haven't read it in a long time, so I'm not prepared to give a really solid critique of it- I'll just say it's at least mostly interesting.
The New Inquisition
Most Recent Customer Reviews
4.0 out of 5 stars
Wonderful!
This book shows the world s it should be. Many good points and new ways of thinking about the world. Definitely a good and worthwhile read!
Published 18 days ago by Kelly
4.0 out of 5 stars
:)
My professor assigned this book for my Psychology of Women class. It WAS informative, and the authors painted a pretty clear picture on their opinion of the influence society... Read more
Published 14 months ago by Shay
5.0 out of 5 stars
Eye Opening
Though this book does have it's flaws, it sparked my interest in the meaning of gender. At first I checked out this book from the library after having a hard time trying to figure... Read more
Published on February 17, 2010 by F. Robinson
4.0 out of 5 stars
Excellent and thought provoking
As a transgendered person, I am particularly sensitive to gender roles and the double standards that come along with it. Read more
Published on October 25, 2006 by Ian Twain
5.0 out of 5 stars
Anybody remember the word ~individual?
Very good points in the book about how every aspect in our society is run by gender stratification.We not only find it in
relationships but also in every other part of... Read more
relationships but also in every other part of... Read more
Published on February 17, 2005 by Rachel
4.0 out of 5 stars
what you need
As the wife of a trans person, and the author of a book about crossdressing and relationships, I feel like I'd lost track of what a 'gender neutral' universe looks like. Read more
Published on February 1, 2005 by Helen Boyd
5.0 out of 5 stars
Should have been written years ago
The book should have been written years ago but maybe it
came at the right time and by the right researcher. Read more
came at the right time and by the right researcher. Read more
Published on January 15, 2005 by JAH
5.0 out of 5 stars
New Standard for Women's Studies
I just wanted to say that I finished reading your book last night, and it brought me back to being in Women's Studies classes in the early 90's! Read more
Published on January 5, 2005 by Heidi Anderson
1.0 out of 5 stars
Innate Gender Differences?
Definition of Gender: 1. Classes of nouns. 2. Sex. So why not talk of innate sexual differences between men and women? Read more
Published on January 1, 2005 by ROBERT REESE
5.0 out of 5 stars
Life changing!
I am reading Same Difference much to the dismay of my husband. It is a wonderful book that eloquently relates what I have been feeling for years - ever since my mother and father... Read more
Published on September 27, 2004 by Karenmosa
Citations (learn more)
This book cites 42
books:
See all 42 books this book cites
2
books
cite this book:
- Reviving Ophelia by Mary Pipher Ph.D. on 7 pages
- In a Different Voice: Psychological Theory and Women's Development by Carol Gilligan on 4 pages
- Mars and Venus: 365 Ways to Keep Your Love Alive (Mars & Venus) by John Gray on page 30, page 32, and page 106
- The Decline of Males: The First Look at an Unexpected New World for Men and Women by Lionel Tiger on page 114, and page 147
- Human Nature: Darwin's View by Alexander Alland in Back Matter (1), and Back Matter (2)
See all 42 books this book cites
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